test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Dev please explain why the [PvP Dmg] mod was added to everything and what does it do!

lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
Since crafting was fixed yesterday, the most evil and hated mod of all now shows up in everything you craft.

So I get why you would get the [PvP Dmg] mod in weapons, but why does it show up in deflectors, engines, and shields?

Also, please explain why you would add a mod that adds a negligible amount of damage therefore making absolutely no sense for someone who likes to PvP to use it. People hate it more than the [Dmg] mod.

P.S. - I know how to write correctly in English, but I had to cut the s off Devs so the title would fit.
Post edited by lucho80 on

«13

Comments

  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,698 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    You know that recent conversation we had? I said stuff was being pushed live, you said it was already pushed stuff being activated?

    Well, this is a pushed live bit.

  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,737 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    What makes it worse is the at least the crappy [Dmg] mod is useful to everyone, whereas the [PvPRes/PvPDmg] mod is only semi-useful to people that PvP. Which is TRIBBLE.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • hpgibbshpgibbs Member Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The PvP Dmg modifier has been around since the crafting system revamp has been put on.... Dmg modifiers, and the PvP Dmg modifiers are just horribad...... It's nothing new.
    The Grate Lorde Cheesus
    Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
    Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
    Kirks Prot
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,698 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hpgibbs wrote: »
    The PvP Dmg modifier has been around since the crafting system revamp has been put on.... Dmg modifiers, and the PvP Dmg modifiers are just horribad...... It's nothing new.

    Yep, have a look at what it is now appearing on...

  • hpgibbshpgibbs Member Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It's pretty much showing up on all space weapons. I don't use it personal, but some people do. No idea why they would though
    The Grate Lorde Cheesus
    Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
    Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
    Kirks Prot
  • policestate76policestate76 Member Posts: 1,424 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hpgibbs wrote: »
    It's pretty much showing up on all space weapons. I don't use it personal, but some people do. No idea why they would though

    And the biggest problem is.. we cant change that, since the modifiers are random (supossedly) ... :cool:

    Another huge fail.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    hpgibbs wrote: »
    It's pretty much showing up on all space weapons. I don't use it personal, but some people do. No idea why they would though

    My issue is that since yesterdays patch, it's also appearing on deflectors, engines, and shields.

    Why?

    Beats me. On top of that, it seems they came up with more weapons mods than they did for other stuff. Is coming up with meaningful non-DPS related mods so hard?

    Excluding the PvP stuff:
    Weapon mods: (They came up with 4. Over/Spr/Rapid all being essentially the same thing. A proc replacement for a boff ability)
    [Over] - [Spr] - [Rapid]
    [Pen]
    [Snare]
    [Thrust]

    Deflector mods:
    (leaving open to fill after patch, but I've only seen 2)

    Shield mods:
    (leaving open to fill after patch, but I've only seen 2)

  • gagocashgagocash Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    That PvP Dmg is just a place holder. lol
    it has no effect at all and no description what it does exactly.

    $$$$ this random mods, they destroy all your rep, lobi, exchange, mission gear and weapons. what sense does it make to "upgrade" 5 cannons and end with 5 cannons and all have different mods? or craft 5 cannons and end with 5 cannons and all have again different mods?

    let's say there are only 5 different mods available. now if you want to upgrade/craft 5 identical cannons with exactly the same mods. you would need on average 25 trys to get your 5 identical cannons.

    having your ship equipped with 8 different weapons, this is like having 4 different tires on your car or wearing 2 different pairs of shoes, isn't this completly stupid?
    M.A.C.O. ELITE COMMANDER & KIRK'S PROTEGE
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,836 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    "Weapon mods: (They came up with 4. Over/Spr/Rapid all being essentially the same thing)
    [Over] - [Spr] - [Rapid]"
    Over should be beams only, Spr torps only and Rapid cannons only.
  • hpgibbshpgibbs Member Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    And the biggest problem is.. we cant change that, since the modifiers are random (supossedly) ... :cool:

    Another huge fail.
    [Modifiers have always been random. I'm alright with that. Prevents a huge influx of high profit ones such as CrdD]x3. I'm fine with having those randomly added on rarity upgrades. Like I said, keeps the market fair
    lucho80 wrote: »
    My issue is that since yesterdays patch, it's also appearing on deflectors, engines, and shields.

    Why?

    Beats me. On top of that, it seems they came up with more weapons mods than they did for other stuff. Is coming up with meaningful non-DPS related mods so hard?

    Excluding the PvP stuff:
    Weapon mods: (They came up with 4. Over/Spr/Rapid all being essentially the same thing)
    [Over] - [Spr] - [Rapid]
    [Pen]
    [Snare]
    [Thrust]

    Deflector mods:
    (leaving open to fill after patch, but I've only seen 2)

    Shield mods:
    (leaving open to fill after patch, but I've only seen 2)
    I have a feeling that they should be on deflectors and engines. Probably just a simple bug. They'll fix that
    The Grate Lorde Cheesus
    Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
    Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
    Kirks Prot
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    "Weapon mods: (They came up with 4. Over/Spr/Rapid all being essentially the same thing)
    [Over] - [Spr] - [Rapid]"
    Over should be beams only, Spr torps only and Rapid cannons only.

    Yes, they are, hence why I classify all of them as the same. A proc replacement for a boff ability.

  • gagocashgagocash Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hpgibbs wrote: »
    [Modifiers have always been random. I'm alright with that. Prevents a huge influx of high profit ones such as CrdD]x3. I'm fine with having those randomly added on rarity upgrades. Like I said, keeps the market fair

    I have a feeling that they should be on deflectors and engines. Probably just a simple bug. They'll fix that
    And i would be fine if we could select the modifiers, heck make a option that this crafted/upgraded gear is for your own personal use and make them even bound, but let us select the modifiers. this rng is overused in the game.
    M.A.C.O. ELITE COMMANDER & KIRK'S PROTEGE
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    IIRC, the PvP Dmg and PvP Res are stackable Bonus mods...whether they have ever actually worked or not would be another matter. The devs were busy fixing other stuff - I got kicked off Tribble with other Silvers...and so the topic died. Would be nifty to get an answer on it, though...
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    Well, I've been pondering for a while what other meaningful mods they could have added considering what currently has been left behind in the game. First idea.

    Deflectors:
    [SubR] - Using any offensive science ability on an enemy decreases their system disable resistance by 35% for 10 seconds.

    Why?
    Well, we all know viral matrix and the phaser proc are considered bad because most people have enough subsystem repair to brush them off quickly. This is my idea to give them a slight boost.

  • hpgibbshpgibbs Member Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Well, I've been pondering for a while what other meaningful mods they could have added considering what currently has been left behind in the game. First idea.

    Deflectors:
    [SubR] - Using any offensive science ability on an enemy decreases their system disable resistance by 35% for 10 seconds.

    Why?
    Well, we all know viral matrix and the phaser proc are considered bad because most people have enough subsystem repair to brush them off quickly. This is my idea to give them a slight boost.

    But that Kee'el doff though
    The Grate Lorde Cheesus
    Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
    Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
    Kirks Prot
  • kerriknightkerriknight Member Posts: 274
    edited September 2014
    The reason rep projects and fleet requisitions are so popular is that you have a fixed, known price and a fixed, known result.

    Expecting us to pay 10s or 100s of thousands of dil (ship paper doll, captain paper doll, at least 4x Boff paper dolls, etc) for randomized outcomes is unacceptable. Especially when 'starting over' means probably paying for the project/requisition again, too.

    I've spent money on half-measures to 'get by until...(still waiting)' enough, already.

    I'm willing to buy a new ship, but they still have yet to design it. I'm willing to upgrade and play along with the dil sink, but I will not spend dil on a lottery.

    They're doing a fantastic job of trying to find ways to part me with some of my money, too bad they don't realize how easy it would be if they'd offer me something I want.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    As promised, those mods:

    Shields:
    [Amp] - Incoming heals improved 10%
    [Heal]- Outgoing heals improved 5%

    Deflector:
    [CdrS] - 10% reduction support sci abilities
    [CrdD] - 10% reduction exotic dmg abilites

    Engines:
    [Damp] - Inertia dampeners boost
    [Inertia] - +10 Inertia rating

    So I have to ask again, why do they come up with 4 mods for weapons, and only 2 for gear? This is more of the DPS centric mentality of always.

  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,313 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gagocash wrote: »

    having your ship equipped with 8 different weapons, this is like having 4 different tires on your car or wearing 2 different pairs of shoes, isn't this completly stupid?


    Wait! Wut? You have matching tires on your car? Insanity!!!
    __________________________________
    STO Forum member since before February 2010.
    STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
    I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    As promised, those mods:

    Shields:
    [Amp] - Incoming heals improved 10%
    [Heal]- Outgoing heals improved 5%

    Deflector:
    [CdrS] - 10% reduction support sci abilities
    [CrdD] - 10% reduction exotic dmg abilites

    Engines:
    [Damp] - Inertia dampeners boost
    [Inertia] - +10 Inertia rating

    So I have to ask again, why do they come up with 4 mods for weapons, and only 2 for gear? This is more of the DPS centric mentality of always.

    You have to choose between 6 to 8 weapons for your ship, but only need to choose one Warp Core or Deflector or Shield. Keeping the decision tree interesting for items with one slot is much less difficult than keeping it interesting for items with ~7 slots. Additionally, weapons only had 4 mods, while multiple base types and potential extra mods already existed for Deflectors, Shields, Engines, and other non-weapon items.

    As to the OP, I fixed a bug that was preventing Crafting mods from appearing in several schools' equipment. They should be appearing on all gear now. This includes PvPRes and PvPDmg mods, which provide bonus damage or bonus resistance that is only effective against other players. Those mods exist so that PvP players can customize their ship with as much durability or PvP-specific damage as they desire.

    I will agree that the total randomness of mod selection in the R+D system is not ideal. We're looking at avenues of addressing that, but core functionality (of this system and others) had to come first, before bells and whistles.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I will agree that the total randomness of mod selection in the R+D system is not ideal. We're looking at avenues of addressing that, but core functionality (of this system and others) had to come first, before bells and whistles.

    So the smart player will be the one who waits until the system gets out of beta and will be able to choose their own mods.

    Thank you for being honest.
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    atomictiki wrote: »
    So the smart player will be the one who waits until the system gets out of beta and will be able to choose their own mods.

    Thank you for being honest.

    I know you're just being snarky, but the R+D system is not in beta. There will always be "more stuff" we want to add - that's just the nature of making games. But honestly, if devs come to the forums to try to answer player questions in good faith, snarkily twisting their words is not a great way to continue that conversation and/or get more answers.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    As to the OP, I fixed a bug that was preventing Crafting mods from appearing in several schools' equipment. They should be appearing on all gear now. This includes PvPRes and PvPDmg mods, which provide bonus damage or bonus resistance that is only effective against other players. Those mods exist so that PvP players can customize their ship with as much durability or PvP-specific damage as they desire.

    The problem is, a lot of people are saying that [PvP Dmg] is not working at all.

    Not sure at [PvP Res]. That would be a hard one to test unless the target has no res to start off with given diminishing returns Resistance has.

  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    This includes PvPRes and PvPDmg mods, which provide bonus damage or bonus resistance that is only effective against other players. Those mods exist so that PvP players can customize their ship with as much durability or PvP-specific damage as they desire.

    I will agree that the total randomness of mod selection in the R+D system is not ideal. We're looking at avenues of addressing that, but core functionality (of this system and others) had to come first, before bells and whistles.

    Pro:
    - Allows pvp players to customize their ships with as much durability or PvP-specific damage as they desire.

    Cons:
    - Increases the cost, difficulty, and frustration for others to customize their ships without anything PvP specific
    - Potentially creates another gear related barrier to entry for joining PvP if those mods are effective enough to be desirable. This is of course assuming they even are desirable.


    Not trying to be snarky. But if I upgrade a piece of gear and get a completely 100% useless to me Mod it might make me not want to participate in the system. Hoping it only exists on the possible mod roll tables for crafting and not upgrading atleast with crafting I could potentially trade the item.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,893 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Well, I've been pondering for a while what other meaningful mods they could have added considering what currently has been left behind in the game. First idea.

    Deflectors:
    [SubR] - Using any offensive science ability on an enemy decreases their system disable resistance by 35% for 10 seconds.

    Why?
    Well, we all know viral matrix and the phaser proc are considered bad because most people have enough subsystem repair to brush them off quickly. This is my idea to give them a slight boost.

    I like the idea.
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,737 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    You have to choose between 6 to 8 weapons for your ship, but only need to choose one Warp Core or Deflector or Shield. Keeping the decision tree interesting for items with one slot is much less difficult than keeping it interesting for items with ~7 slots. Additionally, weapons only had 4 mods, while multiple base types and potential extra mods already existed for Deflectors, Shields, Engines, and other non-weapon items.

    As to the OP, I fixed a bug that was preventing Crafting mods from appearing in several schools' equipment. They should be appearing on all gear now. This includes PvPRes and PvPDmg mods, which provide bonus damage or bonus resistance that is only effective against other players. Those mods exist so that PvP players can customize their ship with as much durability or PvP-specific damage as they desire.

    I will agree that the total randomness of mod selection in the R+D system is not ideal. We're looking at avenues of addressing that, but core functionality (of this system and others) had to come first, before bells and whistles.

    Hawk, the big problem is not only are the various mods Quantitatively different, they are Qualitatively different.

    For the VAST majority of the ST:O population, they don't PvP. So why should a mod that has ZERO effect on NPCs, None, Nada! Be a possibile result? Like I said in an earlier thread, at least throwaway mods like [Dmg] help BOTH PvE and PvP...but PvPRed/PvPDmg ONLY help people that want to PvP. That makes them NOT the same, NOT as equal.

    Just make the probability of their result the equivalent to the estimated PvP population...like 3%.

    That said, out of ALL the possible mods, THOSE should have been choseable by default.


    Just like PvPing is.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I know you're just being snarky, but the R+D system is not in beta. There will always be "more stuff" we want to add - that's just the nature of making games. But honestly, if devs come to the forums to try to answer player questions in good faith, snarkily twisting their words is not a great way to continue that conversation and/or get more answers.

    I am also serious. I do not want to gamble on an upgrade that could ruin a perfectly good piece of equipment. It is very good to know that the system is currently RNG (and that and upgrade can trash your gear with a lame pvp "buff" or something else that doesn't work with your build) and that we will be able to choose which buff is applied in future.

    So while my snark originates from a dislike of the current system (to the point where I will simply bide my time), there remains hope that it will turn into something more player positive the future.

    And I'm thankful that I know this up front before I attempt to upgrade anything. ;)
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It mostly is a reason with random range outcomes so that you keep on grinding on whatever gains you said equipment to keep the grind going and keep the $$$ coming lol. Honestly my gripe isn't with the random stats but with the cost of it being many of us have tons of alts and will never ever get the resources to upgrade all of our gear or even half of it for that matter.
  • kerriknightkerriknight Member Posts: 274
    edited September 2014
    I know you're just being snarky, but the R+D system is not in beta. There will always be "more stuff" we want to add - that's just the nature of making games. But honestly, if devs come to the forums to try to answer player questions in good faith, snarkily twisting their words is not a great way to continue that conversation and/or get more answers.

    There's a difference between 'wanting to improve it' and people's items disappearing, not upgrading, even downgrading, not available for their gear, giving them mods that essentially result in having to start over, etc, etc.

    Many of the current issues are way beyond QoL and leave the system feeling very much like a beta (especially since we can all read the thread full of bugs dutifully reported and then go replicate them on Holodeck). It's not insulting you and twisting your words to say so, it's just how some people feel about it.

    Thank you for weighing in and I would like to add my strong support to mod control/selection ability.
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    Not trying to be snarky. But if I upgrade a piece of gear and get a completely 100% useless to me Mod it might make me not want to participate in the system. Hoping it only exists on the possible mod roll tables for crafting and not upgrading atleast with crafting I could potentially trade the item.

    You shouldn't be getting any of the crafting-specific mods out of Upgrade system. Is this behavior you are seeing?
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    You shouldn't be getting any of the crafting-specific mods out of Upgrade system. Is this behavior you are seeing?

    Would that apply to upgrading crafting-specific gear?

    Say somebody had a VR Conductive or Exciter and worked it to UR...? Same for the VR Wide-Arcs or Omnis?
Sign In or Register to comment.