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  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,834 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    rld2 wrote: »
    This more shields and hp mess is the easy way out to make a harder enemy. Why not make them 'smarter' and more specialized in their class, not just add hp and shields to make it 'take longer' to kill them.

    Because that would actually require some more coding and not just exchanging a few numbers here and there ... and even that is too much to do ... thos the incomplete lunch of all STF's and queued missions at the beginning of RD .
    Plus some of the older STF's are held together by spit , baling wire and the Ghost of Gozer Past ... . :cool:
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    And they'll be people trying to pug elite :rolleyes:.

    More like ... there will be people who won't try to pug elite :rolleyes:.
  • organicmanfredorganicmanfred Member Posts: 3,236 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I have a much better idea for a controlled run in Queues:

    Whenever there seems to be trouble, wherever there is fire on the horizon, players can click on the new emergency button.

    This button will activate an ice bucket drop-down system that will work on Smirk and Trendy and make them check on the problem so they can judge what to do.

    Available 24/7, in wake and sleep mode

    :D
  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yes please.

    Yes,

    please.



    Ow yes,

    oooh yeah







    This single block will make this game so much more fun to play.

    Really interested in seeing the new difficulty.
    At least, I can prevent the everybody dies scenario by tanking the hell out of anything.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,863 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yeah some of this is good but lowering everyone to level 50 for some of these is just disgusting. There are times I just want to go in and get the thing over it's bad enough being stuck with some nubs in pugs as it is, but now you want to hobble better geared players to nub levels. Big mistake. Let the nubs learn and build themselves up but dont hobble better players who want a quick smash and grab to thier levels.
    Oh nice making elites a cash cow for your company definetly pay to win on that.
  • zathri83zathri83 Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Guess pvpers will have to stick with normal. :confused:
  • captaintpolcaptaintpol Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    This is awesome, i can see many many areas from Neverwinter making there way here and i love that ideas are going back and forth between each team of devs for the respective games.
    (STO)
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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    zathri83 wrote: »
    Guess pvpers will have to stick with normal. :confused:
    Considering that PvPers tend to be among the best players in the game, why would they stick with Normal?

    Plus Advances is not really much different then what we currently have in Elite. So if you are used to doing Elites now you can probably do Advanced without much more difficulty.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited September 2014
    stodecker wrote: »
    Normal is level 50-60, with enemies and players scaled to level 50 in terms of "sidekicking".

    Advanced is level 50-60, with enemies and players scaled up to level 60 in terms of "sidekicking", and enemies all use the Advanced difficulty adjustments.

    Elite is level 60 only, and all enemies use the Elite difficulty adjustments.

    Ah, ok .
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,165 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I am glad that they are doing this. Though, I can see why they didn't want to make the T5 Ambassador class ship from the mission upgradable. With how good it tanks, it will cause them to lose a lot of money from people buying new ships, and upgrades. Now that I see what the queues will be like, that is the only ship I would upgrade, if I could. I can't wait to see what my Breen Raider can do.

    I do see one problem though...BO was nerfed after it was changed to crit 100% of the time because players were getting "vaped" in PVP. However, it is now doing less damage than it did before it was changed. When the upgrades, and new T6 ships come out, will it be bumped back up to make it useful to use in the new upgrades to difficulty?
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Elite Azure Nebula Rescue plz?
    stodecker wrote: »
    For what it's worth:

    We are fully cognizant that there will be complaints that it's too hard. We have no intention of going back on Elite and making it easier to achieve. This is the brass ring for you all to aspire to.

    If anything our worry is that one or two might be too easy compared to the rest. We'll take steps to remedy those situations asap.

    Good! Don't pander to the whiners!
    qziqza wrote: »
    I think overall your perception of the player base seems to be one of gross generalisation and absolutes. There is a full spectrum of players from the lows of troll awful and inexperienced to the tactically minded advanced players and the elitist fraternity. I’m a casual advanced player, so don’t pump for max dps, but i do focus heavily on tactics, and would never sit back and allow others to do the work for me, even if extreme dps in the group means i could. There are multiple channels for grouping for eSTFs and not all focus on maxdps, some of the best instances I’ve played have been steady, tactic based runs with folk shooting from 3-9k dps.

    My advice to you - Look harder and don’t expect cryptic to hold your hand or police the content when there are alternative options that we as players can all utilise.

    Hear hear!
    tucana66 wrote: »
    My immediate reaction...

    "Have the cooldown timers changed?"

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Private queues don't have a cooldown timer. Just get a team to practice your Elite runs and you can wipe over and over with no wait.

    Ashkrik, who do you think supplies the materials you have to buy?

    The good players.

    dareau wrote: »
    Is this where I start the pool:

    5 min after server activates and "elite" missions are available - forum complaint that elite missions are "too hard" for casual players.

    15 min after server activation w/elites - Classic arguments of "don't pug, join fleet", "I deserve the most reward for my time, elites give that reward, I'm "entitled" to that reward level in my T1 Mk I starship", telling people to run normals / advanced till they have appropriate gearing, complaints about chat not being used, chat ignorance, rage fights in chat, rage fights in chat creating failures, etc. etc. populate forum

    20 min in: 3 active moderators log the "hat trick" of warning and banning 3 people each due to the spillover of the chat rages into the forums.

    "first night" maintenance - enemy strength reduced back down to current levels - allowing lolFaW boats to rule the server(s) again.

    Aaaand this is why I will never PUG the Elite queues. I have a competent fleet to do them with.

    Joined January 2009
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  • saedeithsaedeith Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The more I think about it the more I think elite pugs will be almost non existent except for players that just don't know any better. Good luck and godspeed to those folks.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    stodecker wrote: »
    I've been alive the whole time. :D

    At first I was going to suggest that if you could slap some sense into those folks at Cryptic to stop releasing broken stuff and move away from all that one-shot nonsense, but then I remembered that Ghost Widow had an unresistable hold that would kill any tanker in the game without a healer friend and Maelstron's one-hit kick of death and the AoE confuse in... what's that mission name again... and... yeah. I hope you're not the one to blame for all those vapers around here. This place stinks one-shot shenanigans right now.

    Either way, good to see you.
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  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    Yeah some of this is good but lowering everyone to level 50 for some of these is just disgusting. There are times I just want to go in and get the thing over it's bad enough being stuck with some nubs in pugs as it is, but now you want to hobble better geared players to nub levels. Big mistake. Let the nubs learn and build themselves up but dont hobble better players who want a quick smash and grab to thier levels.
    Oh nice making elites a cash cow for your company definetly pay to win on that.

    Learn to read or learn to play...
    stodecker wrote: »
    Normal is level 50-60, with enemies and players scaled to level 50 in terms of "sidekicking".

    Advanced is level 50-60, with enemies and players scaled up to level 60 in terms of "sidekicking", and enemies all use the Advanced difficulty adjustments.

    Elite is level 60 only, and all enemies use the Elite difficulty adjustments.
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  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    tk79 wrote: »
    Maelstron's one-hit kick of death and the AoE confuse in... what's that mission name again... and... yeah.

    Maelstrom was my fault. But to be fair, in CoH, it had to be a two-shot.

    I dunno whose fault Ghost Widow's unresistable mag 100 hold was, but you know having 3 pocket emps spamming CM was fun. :P

    Edit: Oh, and the mission was TPN Campus.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Maelstrom was my fault. But to be fair, in CoH, it had to be a two-shot.

    If I remember right, his kick had a DoT in the end to circumvent the no-one-hit-kill policy. :P
    I dunno whose fault Ghost Widow's unresistable mag 100 hold was, but you know having 3 pocket emps spamming CM was fun. :P

    Spamming Clarity in my case. Sonic Resonance FTW :) And it was fun indeed. We could at least avoid the sure-kill mechanic by playing as a team. In STO however, it doesn't matter how defensively buffed you are, by yourself or friends... or how debuffed the enemy is... you will still die in one hit.
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  • rickskynightrickskynight Member Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well after playing and leveling up using the new elite mode for system patrols, I can honestly say you should expect to die a lot in certain situations LOL.. And yes a T5-U fleet or lobi ship can still do these so long as you do them intelligently. Those of you who like to sit in one place with cannon boats are going to get creamed.

    The STFs should be fun.. Im already feeling sorry though for those of us who get stuck with pugs.
  • artemisa0kartemisa0k Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    honestly I'm not a fan of the revamp, I tend to end up pugging due to time constraints which are getting more severe.

    Elite revamp is fine aside from the potentially annoying 1 shot from a invisible/unseen source.

    Normal is fine as well.

    Advanced failure due to optional is essentially troll bait as far as I'm concerned.

    to clarify the "Troll Bait" remark, a Troll can pretty much queue, rip over kill/fail the optional kicking off theirs and everyone else's timer get a decent reward, move onto the next queue and repeat, then log another character after they have completed all the queues they feel like doing and repeat the process.

    so basically they get to troll people in rapid succession thereby ensuring they get as many as possible and they also get a slightly lower but still decent reward for doing it do to hitting the queue's faster...... so basically your forced to either find a group to queue with or essentially spec into "babysitting" in order to prevent people from purposely failing the pug's queue.

    this has to be one of the first times I have ever really heard of or seen a game not only potentially make things easier for troll's but also essentially reward them for preforming the activity.

    the really bad part of it is there's not much of a way to stop it either since causing failure to cause no timer would allow people to farm it to much and I can't really see any way to set the timer to activate only for the troll/person responsible for the failure, unless some kind of voting or other system was added specifically for it however that could also be abused.
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    tk79 wrote: »
    In STO however, it doesn't matter how defensively buffed you are, by yourself or friends... or how debuffed the enemy is... you will still die in one hit.

    In all seriousness, unless you're severely undergeared (like flying, i dunno, a T4 Defiant or something) - you shouldn't be getting one-shot on Advanced, and probably not on Elite either. We focused much more on increasing the durability of enemies so that AoE damage doesn't wipe out whole waves of them - this makes Single Target damage more important than it was before, as ST Damage Out reduces the Damage In you're taking more effectively than AoE Damage Out does.

    TLDR; One-shots aren't fun, trying to move away from that. Damage solving every problem is lame, trying to move away from that.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • tucana66tucana66 Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Private queues don't have a cooldown timer. Just get a team to practice your Elite runs and you can wipe over and over with no wait.
    Sure, I'll correct you as requested... cuz I never stated Private queues. ;)
  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,717 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    TLDR; One-shots aren't fun, trying to move away from that. Damage solving every problem is lame, trying to move away from that.

    It also doesn't help that when we need to interact with objects in missions, being fired upon cancels that action. Something like a stun or knockback should cancel that action, but not a tiny peashot that bounces off my shields and somehow causes ensign doofus on my bridge to lose balance, fall on his butt, and not activate the thing I told him to activate. :rolleyes:
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hypl wrote: »
    It also doesn't help that when we need to interact with objects in missions, being fired upon cancels that action. Something like a stun or knockback should cancel that action, but not a tiny peashot that bounces off my shields and somehow causes ensign doofus on my bridge to lose balance, fall on his butt, and not activate the thing I told him to activate. :rolleyes:

    Completely agree.

    The rifts in the revamped MU event.

    All my rage.
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  • tonyalmeida2tonyalmeida2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    is there gonna be a harder version of nws? you know cause atm its been 2 manned.
    pvp = small package
  • whatinblueblazeswhatinblueblazes Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    is there gonna be a harder version of nws? you know cause atm its been 2 manned.

    I sincerely hope so! Time to put the NO back in No-Win!

    Well, we can probably do better with the rally cry for that. But still, the idea is sound.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 3,745 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    saedeith wrote: »
    The more I think about it the more I think elite pugs will be almost non existent except for players that just don't know any better. Good luck and godspeed to those folks.

    I disagree. I'd venture to estimate 95% of queue players are pugs. They will figure this out eventually, especially since they will have to do advanced until level 60.

    I lack the desire to wait 20 minutes while 4 people get sammiches and cokes. I also am not sociable enough for groups and endless mindless chatter.

    I will be pugging the elites and I expect a very high success rate in my awesome T5u ships.
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Don't worry, a KDF player in a T5 ship = T8. lol :P :D :P

    LOL Yeah I just wish our bops had some umph behind their cloak ambush rather than this unmodified cloak ambush like infiltrator gives rom/reman captains lol.
    In all seriousness, unless you're severely undergeared (like flying, i dunno, a T4 Defiant or something) - you shouldn't be getting one-shot on Advanced, and probably not on Elite either. We focused much more on increasing the durability of enemies so that AoE damage doesn't wipe out whole waves of them - this makes Single Target damage more important than it was before, as ST Damage Out reduces the Damage In you're taking more effectively than AoE Damage Out does.

    TLDR; One-shots aren't fun, trying to move away from that. Damage solving every problem is lame, trying to move away from that.

    I remember something like this being said about the gates and their invis torps lol. That and ummm those whale borg ships with their 1 million damage one shot not happening lol. Would be nice though if bops got an advantage on this though with single target attacking since its rather underpowered to use pretty much anything except a battle cruiser at this point for the kdf. Even then our battle cruisers are weaker than fed/rom ships these days lol. We just have to become extremely creative to make up for being so underpowered with what we do have.
  • antzudanantzudan Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Excellent. I look forward to failing a PUG because of people not bothering to read the optional objectives.
  • millybunmillybun Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I have wanted to see content with the possibility for actual straight-up failure built in, so I generally approve of this.

    However, having seen what PUGs are like, I have to agree with some of the others posting their concerns that the Advanced queues may be exploitable, with some players forcing them into failure and frolicking off to the next Advanced run for quick, short bursts of queue rewards. Especially if said players have a slew of alts and want to collect a bountiful amount of rewards quickly. That aside from other reasons they'd have to purposefully fail a run.

    Not to mention, with the addition of a much harder Elite set of queues, I feel like Advanced should be relaxed a little as far as the former "optionals" go. It's not difficult to complete the optionals on the current "Elite" queues, but there are times when you may not be feeling that well, your finger twitches at the wrong moment, or one player in group decides they know better and lone-wolfs it, failing the run for the other four more competent players. Unless the optionals have been altered to be more forgiving in some aspects, this could become an annoyance in Advanced runs.

    Also, I hope this means that queues with broken objectives and optionals have been fixed for sure, otherwise some queueables could be literally impossible to fully complete. The new Undine queue "Viscous Cycle," for instance, has been known to have optionals that just don't work.

    And lastly, insta-killing Borg. That's gotta go for these revisions to really work. Who enjoys facing off with a Borg Cube and getting vaporized by an attack at full shields, hull, and with various buffs going on that should have mitigated the damage...then respawning and returning to the fight to have it happen again almost immediately, increasing your respawn timer? I'm not talking about glass-cannons here; it could be the toughest, thickest-hulled ship in the fleets and it'd still happen.

    It's a lame mechanic and I was always under the assumption it was unintended, but it always seems to crop up. I don't mind almost-dying to a single attack, or dying to a single attack that you can clearly see being readied and can avoid, but having an at least near-invisible if not outright invisible attack immediately kill you when you're at your best is silly.


    Overall, those are my concerns with these changes, but I feel it's going in a good direction. Then again, time will tell if it *is* a good direction or not.
  • druhindruhin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    In all seriousness, unless you're severely undergeared (like flying, i dunno, a T4 Defiant or something) - you shouldn't be getting one-shot on Advanced, and probably not on Elite either. We focused much more on increasing the durability of enemies so that AoE damage doesn't wipe out whole waves of them - this makes Single Target damage more important than it was before, as ST Damage Out reduces the Damage In you're taking more effectively than AoE Damage Out does.

    TLDR; One-shots aren't fun, trying to move away from that. Damage solving every problem is lame, trying to move away from that.

    It does not help that you have the INVISIBLE TORPS FROM HELL one-shotting us, because we can't SEE THEM. If you fixed that little "bug" of yours (i'm more convinced it's working as intended), perhaps the Queues could get some REAL difficulty settings, and not just a "We made it this hard, but in actuality it's way worse due to invisible-torpedoes).
  • erickhawkkeerickhawkke Member Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hypl wrote: »
    It also doesn't help that when we need to interact with objects in missions, being fired upon cancels that action. Something like a stun or knockback should cancel that action, but not a tiny peashot that bounces off my shields and somehow causes ensign doofus on my bridge to lose balance, fall on his butt, and not activate the thing I told him to activate. :rolleyes:

    That is fully and totally infuriating in the Undine space battlezone, and it's not as if there isn't interactions that continue to work when you're getting hit as it is now! The mechanic is there!

    The only things that should disrupt scans/interactions is exposed hull hits, Aux offline or 0 power, "Stuns," relocations *forced or otherwise,*and last but not least, just being dead.

    We just need to really define what is the consciousness on what is a "challenge" and what is just lazy game designer cheese.

    Stunlock, interaction interruptions, constant unnecessary interrupting text popups, That's cheese and time wasting for the sake of time wasting.. NOT challenge.

    Smart enemy AI, and interesting game mechanics, to me, make a game challenging.

    And yes even at times one shots add challenge depending on the enemy and if they can actually be justified. Sometimes you do just get blown up by superior firepower.
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  • tiberiusdangertiberiusdanger Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    You must have not read the thing at all..

    Nope, I read it " Enemies on Elite will hit significantly harder and be harder to kill, and at the same time, the missions themselves will take clockwork precision to complete."

    Pretty much more hit points and more dps. I'm not sure how else to read this. It's more of the same. One shot kills do not equal challenge.
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