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Is p2w really worth it?
hornet6
Member Posts: 101 Arc User
I have been playing STO for quite sometime now and although endless repetition of error does not promote progress, I like to think that I have learned a few things and have developed into a relatively decent and successful player (by my definition of "sucessful" anyway).
Along the way, because I like shinies and bells and whistles, I have bought quite a few, as well as some ships, from the C-store. It was worth it to me. I have also recently built a "stock" or "rep ship" using only those items I have obtained through mission rewards and rep completions and only an occasional "stf drop" but I tried to limit the amount of "purple drops", though I use as much rep gear as I can earn. Here is what I have discovered:
For the first part of my "career", I used quite a few "shinies" all the cool ships, consoles, boffs etc. and these did seem to make things a little bit easier and made me a little bit more survivable ( and therefore less frustrated) in elite STF's and pvp and even in a couple of pve's. As I progressed and discovered the absolute, unequivocal value of keybinds and proper tactics (team work has always been important so I am not counting that as a variable here) the difference between my "p2w" ship and my "rep ship", while still slightly noticeable (and then only in a few select circumstances) has narrowed considerably. I would venture to say that "shinies" are more valuable to a new captain than to a more experienced one. Has anyone else had this experience? I would still get the "shinies" because I like them but the difference in having or not having them now isn't particularly great.
While on this topic, aside from the plasmotic leech (which everyone craves) and the valadore console (which most people seem to covet), which 1 or 2 "shinies" are absolute "must haves" if one were limited to only 1 or 2. Lets include boffs, except for Rom boffs with the "superior" trait.:)
Along the way, because I like shinies and bells and whistles, I have bought quite a few, as well as some ships, from the C-store. It was worth it to me. I have also recently built a "stock" or "rep ship" using only those items I have obtained through mission rewards and rep completions and only an occasional "stf drop" but I tried to limit the amount of "purple drops", though I use as much rep gear as I can earn. Here is what I have discovered:
For the first part of my "career", I used quite a few "shinies" all the cool ships, consoles, boffs etc. and these did seem to make things a little bit easier and made me a little bit more survivable ( and therefore less frustrated) in elite STF's and pvp and even in a couple of pve's. As I progressed and discovered the absolute, unequivocal value of keybinds and proper tactics (team work has always been important so I am not counting that as a variable here) the difference between my "p2w" ship and my "rep ship", while still slightly noticeable (and then only in a few select circumstances) has narrowed considerably. I would venture to say that "shinies" are more valuable to a new captain than to a more experienced one. Has anyone else had this experience? I would still get the "shinies" because I like them but the difference in having or not having them now isn't particularly great.
While on this topic, aside from the plasmotic leech (which everyone craves) and the valadore console (which most people seem to covet), which 1 or 2 "shinies" are absolute "must haves" if one were limited to only 1 or 2. Lets include boffs, except for Rom boffs with the "superior" trait.:)
ANOTHER NERF !?!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by hornet6 on
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Comments
EDIT;
These points answer your own question.
system Lord Baal is dead
Also, none of the ships or weapons or lotteries make the game better for you.
As well, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever, I have trouble understanding some of the cynicism regarding spending money in-game. There's nothing inherently wrong with a company making money. All hobbies (which is what I consider STO to be for me) are "out to get your money".They are selling entertainment, fun and perhaps feeding one's "Walter Mitty" impulses a bit.
I used to fly model airplanes. I crashed them quite a bit, as the companies that produced the planes and equipment undoubtedly knew I would, and I had to pay money to buy the materials, tools, repair manuals etc., to fix them. It was a hobby I enjoyed even though cynically I might consider that the model airplane companies were out to "get my money". My Klingon cruiser, while "virtual" seems no less real to me when I'm playing it than did my balsa wood and paper Spitfire did when I was flying it. Maybe I'm just weird that way. Who knows?
Where for the first two, the shinies still require one to be able to do stuff...
Where for the last one, the shinies may not be enough to cover what one can't do...
And where the third...well, it's less messy to be a hoarder in a game than real life.
I don't like ship buying/collecting as replacement for fun things to do.
For PvP though, you do need a lobi store or lock box ship to be competitive though some of the new fleet ships like the Patrol Escort can hang just fine.
I concur with your general observations. When I first started playing a c-store ship was a survival step above an issued ship, and the shinies so added to my ability to compete and thrive.
As I have learned things in game some builds work on those shinies to make added damage sinks or to mess with targets. But is far from the need after you learn from doing.
If there was a good third shiny I would add to your list I would include the point defense console. This is practically an extra turret that is always on rapid fire. In basic PVE I have triggered it on ships that got out of my firing arc and obliterated them. Plus the chance to shoot down all the heavy big damage torps is a super survival boost.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The most powerful items are in the fleet system, and still technically available without purchase. Problem: they've been made so hard to access that many fleets have had to but DIL to cover the costs of unlocking them. The realty here is that even a shiny in game still costs real world money.
I bought just about everything I got via DL exchange, including the Vesta Bundle. Except the Steamrunner. That was through Steam.
hmmmm any one else see it :rolleyes:
system Lord Baal is dead
Well, there's also the giveaway/promo ZEN.
It's kind of a dead horse argument...but let them keep thinking they're pulling the wool over Cryptic's eyes and getting away with something, eh? As long as they keep doing it...Cryptic will keep making money to reinvest into the game.
Yay. But meh, there are a lot of rich people playing this game that are really willing to give away a lot of money anyways (thank em for doing that, so STO can still be alive). The two parts are always balanced. You pay money for dilithium, and i pay dilithium for money. Not a big deal.
I bought almost every bundle from the c-store available in the game just trading dilitium for zen. I must say back in the days i even paid a monthly sub for about 3 months, but i realized it was not worthy to pay real money for playing this game. So, my eyes opened, and i just use the trade system to buy anything i wanted. It took me several months to get almost everything i wanted? maybe, but for me, that is not a problem, really.
Sure, people can always use the exchange to get Zen but considering the increasing cost and the increasing number of traits, doffs, items, ships out there, it's getting harder and much more time-consuming for new people to catch up in a reasonable amount of time without paying real currency and the new R&D-system is not making it any better, by adding a 100-day timegate on those R&D-traits.
Getting a purple A2B-tech takes way more ingame time than it did a year ago for example, so does any Zen-item that gets earned through the dil-exchange, so does any lockbox- or lobi-item.
Soo we might be getting to a point where getting a character and ship geared to to a point where it is competetive in PvE (aka where it doesn't just get dragged along) or PvP simply takes too much time to reach without paying up.
I dont know if its worth paying for (the P2W in your title). I only have 1 lockbox ship (a JHEC), and 1 premium 3-pack ship (a DSD for my Rom sci), the rest of my ships are faction fleet ships or free giveaways. I can hold my own most of the time but there are a couple of setups that I cant compete with unless I use an optimized counter build.
I think it matters a great deal. I wish it didnt, but thats the current state of the game
****
As for the general P2W direction, the entry level requirements for end-game competitiveness are such that you have to buy zen to get anywhere. If you want to play end-game 20k ISE, NWS, PVP, any of that, and you want to do it soon, you need to dump zen->dil->fleet credits, and probably zen->keys->EC, at the very least. Oh sure you can level up 6 toons for grinding dil through mining and doffing or whatever but it will take a year to get everything you need. This is one of the problems with the game imbalance, fresh lvl 50 cannot participate in the same content as other "end-game" players. Cryptic has made their choice, they like the paywall more than noob retention, dont see it changing anytime soon.
That is true, that someone did spend the money to buy the Zen. MY point is that there are ways to get Zen even if you're F2P, such as through the DL Exchange. Its a fair trade. The people who post Zen to trade may not have time to grind out DL. We get the Zen in exchange for DL we ground out. Its technically win/win for both sides. And who knows... maybe they already have what they want Zen wise but need DL for something else.
Sweet Akatosh, someone gets it.
Most everything in the game (excluding veteran benefits, and therefore things like the veteran ships) can be acquired for free.
Most of the currencies can be exchanged for other currencies. Dilithium can be traded for Zen, Zen can be traded for Dilithium. Various Zen items can be traded for EC. EC can be used to acquire things from lockboxes. EC can be used to acquire lockbox keys (bought for Zen), and therefore can be used to acquire Lobi Crystals. EC can be converted into GPL. GPL can be converted back into EC (if you want to sell tradable GPL items on the exchange).
All of my examples are factually true.
People who say the game is p2w ignore those truths in favor of 'talking points' such as the efficiency of said conversions, the exchange rate between currencies, and the amount of playtime spent working for items perceived as p2w.
All of these are opinions. And mostly are distilled into the simple explanation is that people want things for free, and they don't want to spend any effort trying to get them. That being forced to earn said items is somehow unfair.
The game is pay4convenience, not pay2win.
The rep gear is not needed to complete Elite missions. Lobi gear is not needed to complete Elite missions. Lockbox ships and Zen-store ships are not required to complete Elite missions.
Said things give you an advantage, but they are far from necessary in order to gain victory. Victory will always be gained through the decisive use of bridge officer powers (free), duty officers (which can be paid for EC), and proper ship and gear (which can be done with free ships and free gear).
If you feel you need things bought with Zen or Lobi in order to win, then maybe you are just bad at the game.
But you can use the standard Tier 5 ship (even without fleet version upgrades) and play an Elite STF.
More important at that aspect might be stuff you need to grind, like the various reputation sets. Not all of them are great, but some of them are, and the perks they give cannot always be discounted. (FOr example, the Assimilated Set hull heal proc is- even after the latest nerf - is strong and can really help a healing-starved ship.)
On an entirely different level:
The problem with Pay-to-Win is, of course, that the developers can at any point create a new ship that is more powerful than the one before. So when I see people say "Make my ship more powerful" or "how awesome this new lockbox ships, most powerful whatever, I must have it", i get sad. Because these people are part of the problem. If that's the biggest and best argument to make you buy a ship (or worse, make you buy master keys in the hope of getting that ship), then the devs have you. The only thing that could stop them adding more powerful ships would be a sense of ethics. But their business sense will constantly work against that, and if the choice for a company decision maker is the company's profit or ethics...
It is pay-to-play for some end-game content, if you want to play it soon
Just because you are content to occupy your game time on low-level content with low-level gear doesn't mean the rest of the game ceases to exist. Some parts of the game require high-end gear to participate. Not being able to play it for a year while you grind out a bunch of dil alts (all day every day) is effectively the same as saying you cant play it without paying.
I was fortunate enough to have found a good fleet to join shortly after joining the game. They were very knowledgeable about the game (with proper knowledge of it), and helped me early on. They helped educate me, and this lead to me not mistakenly wasting money on things I didn't need. I have bought ships with Dilithium. However, they were just to play with, and never felt like they were necessary.
I can't speak for PVP, since I don't even bother with it. However, I can say that there is nothing in the C-Store, or rep systems needed to beat any end game content. All of it is so easy to beat, as long as you are properly educated. So, with proper education, I guess that whether or not P2W is of any benefit in non-PVP content depends on the person's personal preference.