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Looking for some help with my Vesta build

anyone#9933 anyone Member Posts: 24 Arc User
Hello,

I would like to get some help with my build. I have tried PvP and there were occasions where my 20k shield and 38k hull were killed in 2 seconds by a burst. I also feel like my sci abilities are not as good as they should be so I'm probably using it incorrectly.

My build:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=karatestbuild_0

Missing things I didn't put on the page:
  • Deflector: undine reputation
  • Missing console slots: Undine reputation + undine mission (all of the weapon set)
  • 3x torpedo CD doff (uhm yeah, might not be the best right now, but with gravi proc spam it's nice)
  • 1x deflector ability cd reduction doff (deflector officer)
  • Gravimetric scientist doff (aftershock)
  • Base energy levels: 26/60/25/90.
  • Effective energy levels: 50/86/41/130

So what is my current build focussed on?
I'm currently focussed on retaining 100+ aux. My 2 aux cannons don't drain too much and a torpedo in front because it doesn't cost power. The torpedo has an additional mini gw which can proc 3x on spread (tho considering to upgrade to undine torp).

I took the MACO 2x set parts due to the 2 set ability boost which grants another 7 aux and crew resistance rate etc. I took turrets to increase cannon volley hits and the omni for subsystem targeting. I'm currently planning on taking the undine rep turret and torpedo for a nice set bonus.

My skills are taken from a website as I had no idea what things did when I choose them (I'm relatively new to STO) and so goes for my boffs.

So what's wrong?
It feels like my science boffs don't really perform that well. It feels like their CC effects are minimal and easily rejected. In PvP I die fast and in PvE I keep getting agro.
  • My Science team only heals 1.9k facing... That's not nearly as much as I see others in PvP regen their shields
  • My tractor beams is constantly rejected and escaped
  • My Viral matrix seems to be doing very little to none
  • Tyken feels useless in PvP
  • Tachyon beam feels useless.. I really can't get any shields down with that :/
  • My Gravity well does 30~400 dmg in PvP (even tho the popup says 800~1k+ depending on my energy level)
  • My delta flyers were expensive but seem to not even lower their shields a little bit
  • Even with sensor analysis, it's some times impossible to dmg someone while being blown to bits

What am I aiming for?
I'm aiming for aux weaponry, it gives me nice damage for a sci and makes it possible for me to nearly completely reject weapons. My energy setup should show that as well. I'm trying to be useful in PvP by supporting, yet being able to deliver some damage and not get blown up in 2 seconds by 1 geared tac...

My thoughts
I really have no idea what kind of doffs I should aim for, I can't really find a useful list and I guess they are too gear dependent (in order to chose the right ones).

Should I really take a 3rd science officer in my ensign universal or should I take something else? Engineer with shield stuff? Tactical Team?

Is taking a torpedo a good idea or should I go for 3x aux cannons? I think taking a torpedo is a nice addition as it adds extra dmg (aoe if proc) and adds the torpedo spread. It also prevents power draining. When I get the undine torpedo and turret (13k away from T4), I will have the full set. It looks juicy :)

Should I trade out some consoles or play around with them?

What should I do with my Boff skills?


Please help this noob
Post edited by anyone#9933 on

Comments

  • w3est0fn0w3r3w3est0fn0w3r3 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Unless you go full Flow caps you're not going to see much shield drain from Tach Beam (I have about 250+ on my drain boat) and even then if your target has Hazard emitters he's going to clear it.

    Try and get a TBR to push your target into your rifts or try and stack it with a grav well to get better effect out of it. A lot of playing Sci in pvp is watching target buffs and timing your shots.

    There are people out there who can give you more detailed explanations than me seeing as I'm only a few mths into PvP, but this is what I've noticed.

    Oh and get TT1 it's a good panic button to have. (2 if you don't have a Conn doff for it)
  • emperordeslokemperordeslok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    If your intent is to rip a targets shields off you're best replacing tach beam with energy siphon and using it with tykens rift at the same time(add beam target engines or shields for best effect) keep in mind people in pvp run power insulators because turning into a sitting duck is no fun
  • anyone#9933 anyone Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    So I should drop my ensign science (Tractor beam) for Tactical Team 1 and I could put Tractor beam 2 up instead of tachyon 2?
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    inmydot wrote: »
    Hello,

    I would like to get some help with my build. I have tried PvP and there were occasions where my 20k shield and 38k hull were killed in 2 seconds by a burst. I also feel like my sci abilities are not as good as they should be so I'm probably using it incorrectly.

    My build:
    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=karatestbuild_0

    Missing things I didn't put on the page:
    • Deflector: undine reputation
    • Missing console slots: Undine reputation + undine mission (all of the weapon set)
    • 3x torpedo CD doff (uhm yeah, might not be the best right now, but with gravi proc spam it's nice)
    • 1x deflector ability cd reduction doff (deflector officer)
    • Gravimetric scientist doff (aftershock)
    • Base energy levels: 26/60/25/90.
    • Effective energy levels: 50/86/41/130

    So what is my current build focussed on?
    I'm currently focussed on retaining 100+ aux. My 2 aux cannons don't drain too much and a torpedo in front because it doesn't cost power. The torpedo has an additional mini gw which can proc 3x on spread (tho considering to upgrade to undine torp).

    I took the MACO 2x set parts due to the 2 set ability boost which grants another 7 aux and crew resistance rate etc. I took turrets to increase cannon volley hits and the omni for subsystem targeting. I'm currently planning on taking the undine rep turret and torpedo for a nice set bonus.

    My skills are taken from a website as I had no idea what things did when I choose them (I'm relatively new to STO) and so goes for my boffs.
    Ok, there are a few problems I see with this setup. Skill point distribution is less than ideal and the bridge officer and console layout needs to have a "focus". Science abilities are divided into four categories; healing, kinetic damage/crowd control, power drain/subsystem disable, and shield stripping.

    Every Science Vessel should have a science "major", a category they focus on, stacking science consoles to boost that category while running science abilities from that category. Additionally, every Science Vessel should have a science "minor" with a lesser focus. Most Science Vessels will typically major in kinetic damage/crowd control or power drain/subsystem disable while minoring in healing.

    Shield stripping is worthless in PvP at the moment do to absurdly high shield drain resistances. Power drain builds also take heavy hits right now due to a duty officer called Keel'el that has a 40% chance to remove all debuffs for 1 second every 15 seconds (yes, it is overpowered, but Cryptic hasn't fixed it yet). That leaves kinetic damage/crowd control Science Vessel builds as viable at the moment.
    inmydot wrote: »
    So what's wrong?
    It feels like my science boffs don't really perform that well. It feels like their CC effects are minimal and easily rejected. In PvP I die fast and in PvE I keep getting agro.
    • My Science team only heals 1.9k facing... That's not nearly as much as I see others in PvP regen their shields
    • My tractor beams is constantly rejected and escaped
    • My Viral matrix seems to be doing very little to none
    • Tyken feels useless in PvP
    • Tachyon beam feels useless.. I really can't get any shields down with that :/
    • My Gravity well does 30~400 dmg in PvP (even tho the popup says 800~1k+ depending on my energy level)
    • My delta flyers were expensive but seem to not even lower their shields a little bit
    • Even with sensor analysis, it's some times impossible to dmg someone while being blown to bits
    The biggest problem you are facing here is your build lacks a science major and minor. Combining science abilities with similar effects will greatly improve your ability to harm other players in PvP.
    inmydot wrote: »
    What am I aiming for?
    I'm aiming for aux weaponry, it gives me nice damage for a sci and makes it possible for me to nearly completely reject weapons. My energy setup should show that as well. I'm trying to be useful in PvP by supporting, yet being able to deliver some damage and not get blown up in 2 seconds by 1 geared tac...
    If you are looking to go without weapon power, then I would suggest using a Hargh'Peng Torpedo (best torp in the game), a Gravimetric Photon Torpedo, and an Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo. Then I would suggest tossing on Nukara Web Mines and a Bio-Molecular Photon Mine Launcher. The 6th weapon slot could then go to your Omni-directional Antiproton Beam Array for subsystem targeting.
    inmydot wrote: »
    My thoughts
    I really have no idea what kind of doffs I should aim for, I can't really find a useful list and I guess they are too gear dependent (in order to chose the right ones).

    Should I really take a 3rd science officer in my ensign universal or should I take something else? Engineer with shield stuff? Tactical Team?

    Is taking a torpedo a good idea or should I go for 3x aux cannons? I think taking a torpedo is a nice addition as it adds extra dmg (aoe if proc) and adds the torpedo spread. It also prevents power draining. When I get the undine torpedo and turret (13k away from T4), I will have the full set. It looks juicy :)

    Should I trade out some consoles or play around with them?

    What should I do with my Boff skills?


    Please help this noob

    Alright, the first thing to focus on is that skill build. It has a significant impact on your ship's performance. I will present a sample build that works very well in PvP. It is intended as an example to help give you an idea of how Science Vessel builds work. Please feel free to adapt it to your own playstyle. As far as the layout goes, I'd suggest something along these lines: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=karabuildsuggestions_0

    The build I linked is using two piece Adapted MACO (Deflector + Engine) for the bonuses provided to Science with the MACO Shield (+10 all power levels when under fire). The warp core is the free warp core from the mission "Sphere of Influence" and proves to be the perfect warp core for science vessels.

    The weapon loadout is a Hargh'Peng Torpedo (massive AoE shield bypassing explosion in 15 seconds), Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo (Slow proc + shield bypassing damage on expiration), and the Gravimetric Photon Torpedo (mini gravity wells). Aft is the Omni-directional Antiproton Beam Array for subystem targeting, Nukara Web Mines, and a Bio-Molecular Photon Mine Launcher.

    The engineering consoles are for improving turn rate and damage resistance rating. The Science Particle Generators improve all science damage dealing abilities, reduces threat generation, and provides a shield/hull heal procs when taking damage. The Nukara Particle Converter is essentially a 5th particle generator console that also boosts shield power and adds a two piece set bonus with the Nukara Web Mines.

    In the tactical console slots, the Assimilated Modules is essentially a Graviton Generators console that also improves Critical Chance, Critical Severity, Weapon Power, and Hull Repair. The Proton Particle Stabilizer is an EPS console that also improves Weapon Power, Engine Power, and Proton damage. However, the real reason for taking the Proton Particle Stabilizer is for the two piece bonus adding +3% Critical Chance and a large buff to Photon Projectile Damage. If you don't care about subsystem targeting, then consider dropping the Omni-directional Antiproton Beam Array to pick up the Experimental Proton weapon for the three piece bonus (+10% Photon Projectile Critical Chance and +10% All Critical Severity). The last console is the Hydrodynamics Compensator from the 8472 reputation system. This is an RCS Accelerator that also improves Engine Power, Auxiliary Power, and Accuracy. It also shares a set bonus with the Experimental Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo Launcher.

    For duty officers, I'd suggest 3x Projectile Weapon Officer (Torpedo cooldown reduction), 1x Tractor Beam Officer (Voth - Inverts Tractor Beam Repulsors), 1x Biologist (Seggis - Scramble Sensors now applies a cooldown increase to any targets affects), and 1x Matter/Anti-matter Specialist (+Duration of Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners and bonus energy damage resistance rating).

    Now, the defensive bridge officer layout is somewhat simple. Tactical Team is used often to redistribute shield strength and Transfer Shield Strength is used to continuously repair the damaged shields. Do not be afraid to use either ability before you start taking heavy damage. Emergency Power to Shields is used as a large resistance and shield power buff and may be used whenever it comes off cooldown. Hazard Emitters is your hull heal over time and Polarize Hull is a large damage resistance buff. Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners is a large flight speed, turn rate, damage resistance, and immunity to crowd control buff.

    The bridge officer offense layout gets interesting. Tractor Beam Repulsors may be chained for high uptime to continuously deal shield bypassing damage to up to three targets within 5km. All three of your torpedoes and both of your mines will cause negative effects if they connect with raw hull. Dispersal Pattern Alpha works extremely well with Nukara Web Mines. Each mine will deal approximately 8,000 shield bypassing damage per mine while your ship is at 135 auxiliary power. For this reason, I'd recommend getting a race trait called "Hot Pursuit" off of the exchange under the reward packs section. Lastly, you have Scramble Sensors. This ability will severely mess up the cooldowns and confuse any enemies within 5km of activation. Against targets with Emergency Power to X chains, I'd suggest waiting until both are up before popping the player with this ability. The scramble will completely mess up the chain timings. Additionally, you may hit them with subnuke beam if they attempt to cleanse your scramble. This will typically cause severe harm to your target's ability timings.

    Well, I hope that gives you an idea about Science Vessel builds. I'd be happy to help if you have any questions.
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    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well...

    No tactical team

    No epts

    Viral matrix is a hard ability to really get right and is cleansed so easily...

    Antiproton 360 beam...why?

    Your only heals are hazard emitters and sci team...

    Nukara console for one beam?

    No resist consoles...

    I don't no what your trying to do...but you must surely pop fast...

    Something like this would suit you better
    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=defenseup_0
    Damage control doffs. Keel'el for warp core cleanses. Tactical team to rotate those shields. Reverse tbr doff. Awesome heals to keep you going.

    You won't really be killing someone one on one but you won't exactly be feeding the other team like your other build was

    I dont really know what you want to do...

    I think it's the Yellowstone that toss tbr...might be type 8... either way, the tractor beam or warp plasma pets will be a great choice
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I may be a bit rusty, but not having an Emergency Power to Shields in the mix sounds like a bad idea to me, to be honest.

    This build works pretty well for me:
    Front Weapons: 3 x Aux Phaser Cannon
    Aft Weapon: Gravimetric Torpedo, Experimental Proton Weapon, Phaser Beam Array
    Deflector: Assimilated Set
    Impulse: Assimited Slet
    Warp Core: Field Stabilizing Warp Core (but if you got a Fleet Warp Core or something similar better, stick with that)

    Engineering Console: 2 Rare Mark XI Turn Rate Console
    Science Consoles: All the Vesta consoles, the Dyson Proton Particle Stabilizer
    Tactical Consoles: All Rare Mark XI Phaser Relay
    Hangar: Advanced Peregrine Fighter

    Bridge Officers:
    Engineering: 2 x Emergency Power to Shields (IF you got Damage Control Officers, make it one, and an EptA or EptE or Aux2SIF there perhaps?)
    Tactical: Tactical Team x2, Torpedo Spread
    Science: Hazard Emitters I and III, Science Team, Transfer Shield Strength II x2, Gravity Well



    The turn rate boosters are great for bringing the AUx Cannons to bear, as well as to get ships in your rear arc so yougravimetric torpedo can do its job.

    The Borg Set is I believe still very important in the current metagame. Its hull heal was nerfed in Season 9, but I still see a notable difference between ships with and ships without it in survivability. You don't conciously notice the hull heal, but it secretly keeps your hull up when you're heals are on cooldown.



    This build can still use work, but it's pretty survivable, and can clean up enemies relatively well.
    If you got Damage Control Engineer DOFFs, you can for example improve your Emergency Power selection. But you should probably keep one EPtS for shield hardening.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • anyone#9933 anyone Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    majortiraomega, thanks for the excellent explanation! However, I have limited dilithium, I'm not rich and my fleet doesn't have T3 in anything except for the starbase. So with what I've got, I would be willing to try some different setup.

    I want to keep my cannons because I really like them and I'm not really a fan of mines. Is there a setup you would recommend that based on my current gear? I'm mainly concerned about my consoles and skills in combination with bridge officers. I think I would prefer to go for kinetic damage skills.

    I think I should take Tac Team 1 and High Yield torp, rapid fire for single target damage, but I'm not sure about that.

    I have nukara/zero-point because they give nice power level boosts and energy drain resistance. I have the shield refrequencer for the additional proton boost. What does transfer shield strength exactly do? Isn't that to heal your team and not yourself?


    dahminus, I use the omni antiproton for subsystem targeting, the kenetic beam doesn't trigger that.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Extend Shields is an Engineering Powers that can only be used on others, but Transfer Shield Strength can also be used on yourself, and it grants pretty good shield healing, and a bit of shield damage reduction.


    Together with Hazard Emitters it is pretty much your bead & butter science heals. (Science Team also is a shield heal, but it's more important and useful for clearing science deubffs). Your Ensign and Lt. tier skills should probably always come from the aforementioned 3 science skills (TSS, HE, ST).

    A lot of survival in STO also depends on your ability to reduce the incoming damage you take. That can be done by increasing by defenses, not being in the enemies best firing arc and so on, but one of the most reliable and useful methods is shield damage reduction.
    For that you want Emergency Power to Shields, which grants you extra shield power (which grants more damage reduction to shields, and buffs your innate shield healing), extra damage reduction to shields and a shield heal, and has a good uptime (if you got nothing to lower the cooldown reduction of EptS, you could slot two for 100 % uptime).
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • anyone#9933 anyone Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What Doffs lower the cd of EptS?
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Damage control....
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    inmydot wrote: »
    What Doffs lower the cd of EptS?
    Damage Control Engineers lower the cooldown of all Emergency to X powers. (Which makes it quite handy to equip those and two different EPtX powers.)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • anyone#9933 anyone Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    So what doff layout would you recommend? I'm keeping the Gravity Well After shock so that leaves me with 4 slots. Should I get 3 of those dmg control?
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    inmydot wrote: »
    majortiraomega, thanks for the excellent explanation! However, I have limited dilithium, I'm not rich and my fleet doesn't have T3 in anything except for the starbase. So with what I've got, I would be willing to try some different setup.
    If your fleet has provisions and at least Tier I, then I can send you a fleet map invites so that you can get the Tier III Science and Engineering consoles. Each console is 50,000 fleet credits and 10,000 dilithium (8,500 after the Tier III discount).
    inmydot wrote: »
    I want to keep my cannons because I really like them and I'm not really a fan of mines. Is there a setup you would recommend that based on my current gear? I'm mainly concerned about my consoles and skills in combination with bridge officers. I think I would prefer to go for kinetic damage skills.
    Fair enough, the reason I suggested torpedoes and mines is because they work extremely well with shield bypassing science abilities. Whereas energy weapons need to break down the shields before they can help the energy weapons.

    Yes you can keep your cannons, they are fantastic in PvE in fact, but they are extremely difficult to use in PvP. Most players have extremely thick shields to the point that it takes a lot more than a few dual heavy cannons, cannon rapid fire I, and attack pattern omega one to down them. Science Vessles are the masters of shield bypass in PvP and there is no better weapon that torpedoes and mines for them. I could list you an energy weapon based Science Vesta, but please be aware that it will be a lot less effective over a torpedo/mine vesta in PvP.

    Now PvE won't be a problem if you run energy or torpedo/mine. I'd actually do a different bridge officer layout in PvE than the one I suggested above (drop Tractor Beam Repulsors II + III for Gravity Well III and Tykens Rift II while replacing the Tractor Beam Officer with a cooldown reducing Gravimetrics Scientist).
    inmydot wrote: »
    I think I should take Tac Team 1 and High Yield torp, rapid fire for single target damage, but I'm not sure about that.
    Tactical Team I is one of the best defensive abilities in the game. Ideally you want 1-2 copies of the ability. Rapid Fire I and High Yield I would work very well in PvE.
    inmydot wrote: »
    I have nukara/zero-point because they give nice power level boosts and energy drain resistance. I have the shield refrequencer for the additional proton boost. What does transfer shield strength exactly do? Isn't that to heal your team and not yourself?
    The Nukara Particle Converter is a great console to have on a Science Vessel. I don't use the Zero-Point Energy conduit much outside of set bonuses with the release of the Hydrodynamics Compensator. The Zero-Point is mainly a critical chance bonus with +1.8 power to all subsystems. I personally believe it is the least effective on a science vessel of the five universal reputation consoles in the game right now.

    Shield Refrequencers aren't as good as Fleet consoles, but they work. Transfer Shield Strength is a large heal over time effect that can be used on yourself or an ally. It is basically the shield version of hazard emitters. The ability that can only be used on an ally is an engineering ability called Extend Shields.
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  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Damage Control Engineers lower the cooldown of all Emergency to X powers. (Which makes it quite handy to equip those and two different EPtX powers.)

    The Science Vesta isn't the best ship to be running damage control engineers. DCEs work best on ships with a very heavy engineering focus such as the Fleet Olympic Science Vessel, Fleet Nebula Science Vessel, or the Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel. A Science/Science Vesta is going to get very little out of those DCEs.
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  • coffeemikecoffeemike Member Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    My tac Vesta is running a purple Damage Control Engineer with a Warp Core Engineer and it works nicely for me. Then again I'm a Joined Trill eng captain.

    You do need synergy between skill points, ship equipment, BOFF & DOFF setup.

    My main focus has been crowd control & DPS as primaries & healing/support as secondaries. You can see my build in my signature.
  • alejogalejog Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The Science Vesta isn't the best ship to be running damage control engineers. DCEs work best on ships with a very heavy engineering focus such as the Fleet Olympic Science Vessel, Fleet Nebula Science Vessel, or the Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel. A Science/Science Vesta is going to get very little out of those DCEs.

    I strongly disagree with this. The vesta has very weak hull so it is important to keep EPtS always going and if you want another EPtX skill (should be engines or aux) then you really really need the DCE. Personally I use EPtE along with EPtS in my vesta and a fully doffed viral and scrambles to mess with the opposing team along with transphasic torps for maximum shield penetration damage.

    Be aware that in a science captain skill points make a huge difference. And also aux power is critical for all your abilities (which is for pvp I switch to torps instead of aux cannons) and the aux drain of your cannons will reduce your abilities effectiveness.

    For pve an alternate build with the cannons and rapid fire or scatter volley and grav well is probably the best.

    And as a side note tac team if your best friend in 90% of ships in pvp.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team

    Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The Science Vesta isn't the best ship to be running damage control engineers. DCEs work best on ships with a very heavy engineering focus such as the Fleet Olympic Science Vessel, Fleet Nebula Science Vessel, or the Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel. A Science/Science Vesta is going to get very little out of those DCEs.

    ...a ship that has 2 engineer slots will make use of DCEs...

    In pvp, shields and engines are staples...
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    alejog wrote: »
    I strongly disagree with this. The vesta has very weak hull so it is important to keep EPtS always going and if you want another EPtX skill (should be engines or aux) then you really really need the DCE. Personally I use EPtE along with EPtS in my vesta and a fully doffed viral and scrambles to mess with the opposing team along with transphasic torps for maximum shield penetration damage.

    You don't need 100% uptime Emergency Power to Shields to tank damage in PvP.
    dahminus wrote: »
    ...a ship that has 2 engineer slots will make use of DCEs...

    In pvp, shields and engines are staples...

    Sacrificing the Aux2X for EPtX isn't an ideal situation.
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    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • alejogalejog Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    You don't need 100% uptime Emergency Power to Shields to tank damage in PvP.


    We'll agree to disagree. Quite strongly. Especially in a ship with hull and turn rate as bad as the vesta, keeping shields up while focused is the difference between life and death.


    Sacrificing the Aux2X for EPtX isn't an ideal situation.

    Agreed, which is while I use the ensign uni so I run 2 copies if EPtX an ensign level power leaving my Lt free to run A2SIF or RSP depending on the situation.
    And if I want extra tank I'll run the LTC with RSP and A2SIF2.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team

    Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    alejog wrote: »
    We'll agree to disagree. Quite strongly. Especially in a ship with hull and turn rate as bad as the vesta, keeping shields up while focused is the difference between life and death.

    Fly the Fleet Nova in PvP and then come back to tell me the Vesta has a poor hull rating. The Vesta is much more survivable compared to the Fleet Nova; though the Fleet Nova is a bit more maneuverable. Tactical Team and Transfer Shield Strength with Embassy +Hull/Shield healing Science consoles makes for quite a survivable Science Vessel. Chaining EPtS is a nice option, but don't think for a second it is required.
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  • alejogalejog Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Fly the Fleet Nova in PvP and then come back to tell me the Vesta has a poor hull rating. The Vesta is much more survivable compared to the Fleet Nova; though the Fleet Nova is a bit more maneuverable. Tactical Team and Transfer Shield Strength with Embassy +Hull/Shield healing Science consoles makes for quite a survivable Science Vessel. Chaining EPtS is a nice option, but don't think for a second it is required.

    I've flown the fleet nova in pvp. One of my hobbies in this game is making builds. I find that ship to be tankier than the vesta because it can speed tank with such ease. It pretty much moves like an escort. The vesta can't do that; thus, it has to withstand more punishment.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team

    Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The Aftershock Gravity Well DOFF is great, and depending onthe level of Damage Control Engineers you have, I'd probably equip 3 of them.
    The Science Vesta isn't the best ship to be running damage control engineers. DCEs work best on ships with a very heavy engineering focus such as the Fleet Olympic Science Vessel, Fleet Nebula Science Vessel, or the Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel. A Science/Science Vesta is going to get very little out of those DCEs.
    I don't see why you would say that? If you got the DOFFs, you can often enough reduce the cooldown to the effective global cooldown, which means that slotting more than two emergency powers is often wasteful anyway, so you don't really need more than 2 EptX. Or do you mean that those Engineering focused ships can equip higher level EPtX? What non EptX power do you think he'll benefit greatly off? What DOFF do you think he else should take?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    You don't need 100% uptime Emergency Power to Shields to tank damage in PvP.



    Sacrificing the Aux2X for EPtX isn't an ideal situation.
    Auxillary to Strutural Integrity is great, but I am not sure it's neccessary if you can manage to keep your shields up and have Hazard Emitters, too. Maybe it's a good idea if he doesn't want or can't get the Borg set.
    Aux2Bat seems a bit... unwise on a science ship. (unless they changed how it worked in regards to Aux Power significantly?)
    Aux2Dampeners - it's neat, but there is very little in PvE where you need it, and in PvP it seems it will help less than better shield damage reduction.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Auxillary to Strutural Integrity is great, but I am not sure it's neccessary if you can manage to keep your shields up and have Hazard Emitters, too. Maybe it's a good idea if he doesn't want or can't get the Borg set.
    The borg set is fortunately now overrated since the Season 9 nerf. It is no longer the best set in the entire game.
    Aux2Bat seems a bit... unwise on a science ship. (unless they changed how it worked in regards to Aux Power significantly?)
    Of course you wouldn't use Aux2bat on the Vesta.
    Aux2Dampeners - it's neat, but there is very little in PvE where you need it, and in PvP it seems it will help less than better shield damage reduction.

    Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners is +Kinetic Damage Resistance Rating, +Turn rate, +Flight Speed, Immunity to Disable, and Immunity to Repel. The duty officer adds +duration to Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners and +Energy Damage Resistance Rating. It is very similar to Attack Pattern Omega.
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  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Ok, there are a few problems I see with this setup. Skill point distribution is less than ideal and the bridge officer and console layout needs to have a "focus". Science abilities are divided into four categories; healing, kinetic damage/crowd control, power drain/subsystem disable, and shield stripping.

    Every Science Vessel should have a science "major", a category they focus on, stacking science consoles to boost that category while running science abilities from that category. Additionally, every Science Vessel should have a science "minor" with a lesser focus. Most Science Vessels will typically major in kinetic damage/crowd control or power drain/subsystem disable while minoring in healing.

    Shield stripping is worthless in PvP at the moment do to absurdly high shield drain resistances. Power drain builds also take heavy hits right now due to a duty officer called Keel'el that has a 40% chance to remove all debuffs for 1 second every 15 seconds (yes, it is overpowered, but Cryptic hasn't fixed it yet). That leaves kinetic damage/crowd control Science Vessel builds as viable at the moment.


    The biggest problem you are facing here is your build lacks a science major and minor. Combining science abilities with similar effects will greatly improve your ability to harm other players in PvP.


    If you are looking to go without weapon power, then I would suggest using a Hargh'Peng Torpedo (best torp in the game), a Gravimetric Photon Torpedo, and an Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo. Then I would suggest tossing on Nukara Web Mines and a Bio-Molecular Photon Mine Launcher. The 6th weapon slot could then go to your Omni-directional Antiproton Beam Array for subsystem targeting.



    Alright, the first thing to focus on is that skill build. It has a significant impact on your ship's performance. I will present a sample build that works very well in PvP. It is intended as an example to help give you an idea of how Science Vessel builds work. Please feel free to adapt it to your own playstyle. As far as the layout goes, I'd suggest something along these lines: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=karabuildsuggestions_0

    The build I linked is using two piece Adapted MACO (Deflector + Engine) for the bonuses provided to Science with the MACO Shield (+10 all power levels when under fire). The warp core is the free warp core from the mission "Sphere of Influence" and proves to be the perfect warp core for science vessels.

    The weapon loadout is a Hargh'Peng Torpedo (massive AoE shield bypassing explosion in 15 seconds), Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo (Slow proc + shield bypassing damage on expiration), and the Gravimetric Photon Torpedo (mini gravity wells). Aft is the Omni-directional Antiproton Beam Array for subystem targeting, Nukara Web Mines, and a Bio-Molecular Photon Mine Launcher.

    The engineering consoles are for improving turn rate and damage resistance rating. The Science Particle Generators improve all science damage dealing abilities, reduces threat generation, and provides a shield/hull heal procs when taking damage. The Nukara Particle Converter is essentially a 5th particle generator console that also boosts shield power and adds a two piece set bonus with the Nukara Web Mines.

    In the tactical console slots, the Assimilated Modules is essentially a Graviton Generators console that also improves Critical Chance, Critical Severity, Weapon Power, and Hull Repair. The Proton Particle Stabilizer is an EPS console that also improves Weapon Power, Engine Power, and Proton damage. However, the real reason for taking the Proton Particle Stabilizer is for the two piece bonus adding +3% Critical Chance and a large buff to Photon Projectile Damage. If you don't care about subsystem targeting, then consider dropping the Omni-directional Antiproton Beam Array to pick up the Experimental Proton weapon for the three piece bonus (+10% Photon Projectile Critical Chance and +10% All Critical Severity). The last console is the Hydrodynamics Compensator from the 8472 reputation system. This is an RCS Accelerator that also improves Engine Power, Auxiliary Power, and Accuracy. It also shares a set bonus with the Experimental Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo Launcher.

    For duty officers, I'd suggest 3x Projectile Weapon Officer (Torpedo cooldown reduction), 1x Tractor Beam Officer (Voth - Inverts Tractor Beam Repulsors), 1x Biologist (Seggis - Scramble Sensors now applies a cooldown increase to any targets affects), and 1x Matter/Anti-matter Specialist (+Duration of Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners and bonus energy damage resistance rating).

    Now, the defensive bridge officer layout is somewhat simple. Tactical Team is used often to redistribute shield strength and Transfer Shield Strength is used to continuously repair the damaged shields. Do not be afraid to use either ability before you start taking heavy damage. Emergency Power to Shields is used as a large resistance and shield power buff and may be used whenever it comes off cooldown. Hazard Emitters is your hull heal over time and Polarize Hull is a large damage resistance buff. Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners is a large flight speed, turn rate, damage resistance, and immunity to crowd control buff.

    The bridge officer offense layout gets interesting. Tractor Beam Repulsors may be chained for high uptime to continuously deal shield bypassing damage to up to three targets within 5km. All three of your torpedoes and both of your mines will cause negative effects if they connect with raw hull. Dispersal Pattern Alpha works extremely well with Nukara Web Mines. Each mine will deal approximately 8,000 shield bypassing damage per mine while your ship is at 135 auxiliary power. For this reason, I'd recommend getting a race trait called "Hot Pursuit" off of the exchange under the reward packs section. Lastly, you have Scramble Sensors. This ability will severely mess up the cooldowns and confuse any enemies within 5km of activation. Against targets with Emergency Power to X chains, I'd suggest waiting until both are up before popping the player with this ability. The scramble will completely mess up the chain timings. Additionally, you may hit them with subnuke beam if they attempt to cleanse your scramble. This will typically cause severe harm to your target's ability timings.

    Well, I hope that gives you an idea about Science Vessel builds. I'd be happy to help if you have any questions.

    As always, thank you for the explanations and example. Very interesting.
    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The borg set is fortunately now overrated since the Season 9 nerf. It is no longer the best set in the entire game.
    I still don't see it, to be honest. The hull heal is still pretty big. Maybe it won't make out like 40 % of the entire PvP communities hull heals anymore. What set would you suggest?
    Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners is +Kinetic Damage Resistance Rating, +Turn rate, +Flight Speed, Immunity to Disable, and Immunity to Repel. The duty officer adds +duration to Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners and +Energy Damage Resistance Rating. It is very similar to Attack Pattern Omega.
    Except that APO also gives you a lot of extra damage, and counters tractor beams (but I believe APO doesn't protect against disables, does it?)
    Aux2Dampeners is a nice power, but I think you won't really need it in PvE nor PvP. Energy damage resistance is nice, but if have shield with damage reduction...
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I still don't see it, to be honest. The hull heal is still pretty big. Maybe it won't make out like 40 % of the entire PvP communities hull heals anymore. What set would you suggest?
    It depends on what you want to do in the game. The Assimilated two piece bonus is +30% hull regeneration/minute with a heal proc that will repair 30% of a starship's hull over 15 seconds once every 60 seconds (basically an extra copy of automatic hazard emitters). While good, the bonus is no longer superior to everything else within the game. The Adapted MACO set works extremely well on Science Vessels. You could also make viable builds from several of the other sets.

    Except that APO also gives you a lot of extra damage, and counters tractor beams (but I believe APO doesn't protect against disables, does it?)
    Attack Pattern Omega I will provide about 10-15% all damage for 15 seconds, but has a 60 second cooldown. However, Attack Pattern Omega provides immunity to slow, disable, repel, and teleport.
    Aux2Dampeners is a nice power, but I think you won't really need it in PvE nor PvP. Energy damage resistance is nice, but if have shield with damage reduction...
    Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners provides a speed/turn rate boost that is about two times larger than Attack Pattern Omega after you've factored in maximum Auxiliary power levels. Ships using it become much more maneuverable than they were before and that provides a significant tactical advantage in PvP and PvE. You also shouldn't downplay the significance of +damage resistance rating when even NPCs have a large amount of shield penetration at the moment.
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    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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