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Rep System is OP!

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  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    fovrel wrote: »
    Actually I like Cryptics stance here. The idea that a new player should not play for months to be on par with players that are longer here/QUOTE]

    No. That the stanc e it should be. Cryptic can make it faster. It sounds like it's okay to get new players a cheat sheet or short cut. It sounds like it's pure laziness involved specifically new players.

    The change is bull. I am thinking you are one of those new players.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    lol come try me and see, I hate a tvaro by the name of toejam and a brel in the name of hissyfit, come to karrat or priv invite me and you will see just how well I can build a ship, and ask matt Johnson a pvp'er of over 3 years if my brel and tvaro can beat a bug without a vape build or using a cloak

    hissyfit ship is wicked. A very nice build.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Under a minute? BS. That is a total lie.

    This reputation nerf is punishment for Veterans. If Cryptic wanted to do things right, they would add a higher difficulty. Taking away things from players is the fastest way to kill your player base and close wallets. I know that I have closed my wallet.

    Have you noticed how things that make money are never nerfed? Where is the nerf on the 700 day vet award? Where is the nerf on the JHAS? This is about punishing veterans to make money. Mark my words...they will monetize this somehow. They are greedy...they love money.

    I bet the devs are having a money fight right now.

    Greedy indeed. Money hungry and incompetent with no values. Is a better description.
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    notoryczny wrote: »
    Priceless.

    Video or it did not happen.


    I will when you provide notory with video he asked for. I quoted the above for you to see.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Greedy indeed. Money hungry and incompetent with no values. Is a better description.

    I stand corrected. You hit the nail on the head.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,379 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Under a minute? BS. That is a total lie.

    There is a video out there with people taking down all 3 cubes in CSE WITHOUT having destroyed the nanites first in like 3 or 4 minutes...

    I don't think 1 min for Infected seems that unreasonable after having watched that video... Heck... I've seen a Kar'fi (or whatever) solo a Donatra before the rest of us could get from the gate to her location.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    less chat more pew pew lets 1v1 and see? you can tell you don't pvp if you don't know any of them names and both the brel and tvaro that I use have cloaks so why would I say they are op fool


    Because you also have access to the rep system but you are the fool here crying about it being OP. So having it doesn't stop your whine it seems. Now that's a fool not utilizing what you have available like everyone else and expecting sympathy.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    There is a video out there with people taking down all 3 cubes in CSE WITHOUT having destroyed the nanites first in like 3 or 4 minutes...

    I don't think 1 min for Infected seems that unreasonable after having watched that video... Heck... I've seen a Kar'fi (or whatever) solo a Donatra before the rest of us could get from the gate to her location.


    Still watching the vid but can this solely be said it's the Rep system's fault?

    So far it's also more than 3 or 4 minutes. I haven't done cure space in forever though I have to admit.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited March 2014

    As it is for me, the reason to close the gap between new and old lvl 50 player is TRIBBLE.

    What are your thoughts?


    PS: new Exp-Bonus Weekend is coming ^^

    Cryptic's reasons are always TRIBBLE. We all know that, but we cant do anything about it. They nerf everything cuz they dont have skillsz to make proper balances. Or because they dont have enough time, or because they just have a team of 4 guys only working on the game xD. Who knows.

    Its like you wasting time writting here in the forums.. no one from cryptic will ever look at these posts, and of course cryptic will never take in consideration anything said by their customers. And of course, every decidison is already made by cryptic ages ago about this matter. So, the point of this thread, again?? no point at all lol.
    Picard: "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
    / Tell that to the Ferengi Cryptic's Manager..
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    less chat more pew pew lets 1v1 and see? you can tell you don't pvp if you don't know any of them names and both the brel and tvaro that I use have cloaks so why would I say they are op fool


    I said Matt. Not the other two names you said I did not know. I just said there's a rule against naming people on the forums. I got punishment for that before. I guess you didn't notice that difference in your blind rage against people who use the system that is in place and you choose not to but now crying for a nerf.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    and I quote you are all talk, you cant be scared of a weak brel?

    Video or don't believe you use one. Everyone can believe what they want. Most believe you need to just learn to play and use what is available if you feel it's that big of a difference.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Cryptic's reasons are always TRIBBLE. We all know that, but we cant do anything about it. They nerf everything cuz they dont have skillsz to make proper balances. Or because they dont have enough time, or because they just have a team of 4 guys only working on the game xD. Who knows.

    Its like you wasting time writting here in the forums.. no one from cryptic will ever look at these posts, and of course cryptic will never take in consideration anything said by their customers. And of course, every decidison is already made by cryptic ages ago about this matter. So, the point of this thread, again?? no point at all lol.


    Too true.

    /10chars
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    thank you at least one real pvp,er in here then

    yea. i'm aala. the romulan ha'feh with the haakona retrofit skinned that comes into kerrat.
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    not crying for a nerf if you had read from the start, im saying none of the rep passives should be taken away as its had for my brel to survive against the hord of bfaw cruisers out there in pvp land


    Not you but the OP. But you seem to be of the same mind with him/her with some of your posts in here. If you don't want any taken then we at least agree there. But to think they are OP is telling Cryptic one wants it nerfed because we know that Cryptic's only answer to OP is nerf bat. They don't consider just making more challenging content.

    And that hits every aspect of the game and not just PvP. A better idea would be to have a rated PvP versions though where someone can't go in if they aren't at a certain rating so the new people who feel they have to cry for nerfs are actually facing people with similar stats. Sort of like how DCUO has a Combat Rating and you can't even do some stuff until you reach that Combat Rating. There it's just armor so I am not saying just like it just the idea behind it.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    There is a video out there with people taking down all 3 cubes in CSE WITHOUT having destroyed the nanites first in like 3 or 4 minutes...

    I don't think 1 min for Infected seems that unreasonable after having watched that video... Heck... I've seen a Kar'fi (or whatever) solo a Donatra before the rest of us could get from the gate to her location.

    Killing 3 cubes on CSE in 4 minutes is reasonable.

    Soloing Donatra before you could make it from the gate (10 second travdl time at full impulse)...thats a lie. Thats a huge lie. That is impossible. Stop lying.

    1 minute ISE is also BS. I want proof of this.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
  • ralphgraphiteralphgraphite Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'm one of the new players this change is supposed to "help". I'm not really a fan. I JUST got my Omega up to Tier 3, Romulan up to Tier 3, and Nukara to Tier 2.

    I don't think my character should be as powerful as a veteran character. When I hit fresh 50, I went into Kerrat and got my butt handed to me in short order. I was flying around with Mk XI blues and thought that was going to cut it. This is the way it should be.

    Started working on rep projects without doing STFs (because unfortunately, players in STFs assume you know everything, even in normal - except mirror, I find people can't read or listen to instructions in this current grindfest). Now that I have a few passives, I'm finding Defera Invasion zone getting easier, placing first or second in the Gorn Minefield action pretty often, and am feeling like I'm finally getting it. I'm probably going to start running Infected Space on nornmal soon.

    What do the changes get me?

    From what I understand, I lose the remodulation passive - which was finally making fighting Borg on the ground tolerable. Oh well, no big deal - I finally collected enough of the doo hickies to craft the Fractal Remodulator for at least myself, guess I'll start working on getting them for my BOFFs.

    With 6 potential Omega, 6 Romulan, and 4 Nukara passives unlocked, I've already got the choice of enough passives that I'm "maxed out". Guess I can stop working on rep for now, at least until I decide what gear I want.

    I understand the need to do something. If they keep adding passives forever, the power creep will march on and on.

    That being said:

    1)As they add new reps, I would expect that the Tier 4 and 5 passives for each rep are going to be most desireable - that means when we have to choose 8 passives, our normal "go to" passives are going to be the most powerful, except for very situational ones (maybe all Omega to fight Borg/etc). I haven't seen how this works on Tribble, but I'm doubting they are going to buff the lower tier passives enough to make them competitive. This is still going to be power creep - and the older passives won't be used.

    2)I think there should be some harder content. I agree with making Elite the new Advanced, and coming out with a harder Elite. If they move the level cap to 60 it's going to head that route anyway. Newer players (like myself), should work their way up - and the game (and community) should work on ways to remove the stigma associated with that - but that's for another thread probably.

    3)Removing the lower Tier's access to gear is going to remove even more incentive to doing these rep grinds. I'm not even going to bother starting the Mk XI Omega rep sets (which was my original plan for marks and budget reasons), as I probably wouldn't complete the sets by season 9 anyway. I agree with removing the Mk X because they were obsolete when they came out, but waiting until Tier 4 or 5 before unlocking the Mk XII gear is going to be a pain, if that's the plan.

    Whooo.... Wall of text over.
  • johnstewardjohnsteward Member Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Hi Player Community,

    I understand... Cryptic want to nerf the Reputation System in order to close the gap between new lvl 50 Player and lvl 50 Player who (quote) "spent hundreds of hours at endgame" ... no i dont understand!

    Cryptic also want to say the Rep-System is too overpowered. Ah... i understand. Its NOT the RomulanTrait? NOT the Plasmonic Leech console? .... right its the Reputation-System.

    I know, they implant a Undine-Reputation System and only Cryptic know what else. But its normal that a new lvl 50 Player is inferior to a lvl 50 Player after 3 months of playtime with fleet-weapons, unique consoles ect. In every other game its the same, new lvl-max char player are ALWAYS inferior to player which spend a lot of time in the game. Isnt that normal? It SHOULD be normal.

    As it is for me, the reason to close the gap between new and old lvl 50 player is TRIBBLE.

    What are your thoughts?


    PS: new Exp-Bonus Weekend is coming ^^

    i mostly agree.. from all the stuff that makes some better than others thats not related to flying/skilluse/build or a special ship maybe except scimitar its not really the rep passives that are so powerful and unachievable..

    going through the rep especially with the sponsor thing is quite easy and mostly not hard to do, it just takes some time to do it (like 25 on a new char) but thats all, everyone can do it, maybe not on every char at once but its no fuzz..
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This reminds me of that thread when a bunch of us were crying foul of the Scimitar/valdore/leech/SupOperative shenanigans and Cryptic actually chimed in and said that if anything, things like the Valdore console is fair and balanced because it encourages us to get into close range to maximize our damage and by extension the healing we get from it.

    We all had a hearty laugh at that one. :D
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,077 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    no i dont understand!

    That's most likely because you've read far more posts from angry players than you have the actual dev blog and some of the nuance got trampled in the ensuing forum rage.

    They're trying to head off a potential problem in the future of the rep system. By making this change now, it rips the band aid of fast, instead of slowly removing it.

    The power creep they're attacking isn't the CURRENT state of the reputation system. Right now that's still very minimal. So minimal in fact that they're boosting the traits to be almost double what they were overall.

    The powercreep they're curbing is 10 or more new reputation grinds IN THE FUTURE.
    Its NOT the RomulanTrait? NOT the Plasmonic Leech console? .... right its the Reputation-System.

    Devs have already talked about how they're looking at certain powers on their internal testing servers. This one blog is about the rep system. And nothing else. They'll be getting around to all these other things that are frustrating you. In due time.
    What are your thoughts?

    My thoughts are, when they do nerf BOFF powers, I really hope I don't see some of the folks from these threads who keep asking when is Cryptic going to deal with the real problem, freak out about those nerfs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vamerrasvamerras Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    fovrel wrote: »
    Actually I like Cryptics stance here. The idea that a new player should not play for months to be on par with players that are longer here. The argument against it all other games have that too, is too thin. It doesn't mean it is a good

    Actually I think nobody should go to lvl50. If everybody would stay at lvl1, every new player could be on pair with players who are longer here.

    /sarcasm

    The reputation system was an alternative way of leveling. You had to make an effort to level your character - but actually you didn't receive a new level but a new power of your choice plus access to new gear.

    Nerfing the reputation system is equal to nerfing the leveling system. It's like:
    "OK, lvl50 is too OP, we will nerf back everybody to lvl45 but in exchange we boost some skills".

    Would you surprised if lvl50 players would be upset a similar move?
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,379 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Still watching the vid but can this solely be said it's the Rep system's fault?

    So far it's also more than 3 or 4 minutes. I haven't done cure space in forever though I have to admit.

    The CUBES go down WITHOUT having lost it's repairs first i 3 mins 56 seconds... That is some serious DPS... Really... They not only have to remove the HP, but also counter the 100K/s repair from the probes.

    Remember: Compared to Cure, Infected is pretty much a sandbox with pillows to shield you from your fall.

    But NO... This is not ONLY the Rep systems fault, and there is Deffo some other factors (fleet weapons, skills, DuOffs, consoles...), but they have to start somewhere right?

    I sense that this is just the first step to get the power-creep under control.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    .....

    I sense that this is just the first step to get the power-creep under control.

    Yup, this is stage 1.

    As the blog says and snoggymack22 has pointed out, it was made very clear, this is to prevent the Reputation system making power creep a worse problem than it is not.

    People have stated that giving more hull / shields and "instagib you" weapons to enemies, is lazy and does not make the game more interesting. (see Hive space elite complaints)

    People have stated that power creep has become and issue.

    So taking those to clearly stated opinions into consideration, the only true option left is to rebalance current things with future gear / reputations and skills in mind.

    This is what Cryptic are doing, a rebalance.

    But a few in this thread fail to grasp the bigger picture, as crying foul on here, it would seem, is more fun than actually playing the game !!!! :eek:

    And of course, all trolls fall back to the old - "their stuff is better than my stuff, so nerf their stuff right now" ideal - as opposed to, you know, learning how their stuff works and improving it.
  • ralphgraphiteralphgraphite Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I do agree "something" needs to be done for power creep. I think they have kind've painted themselves into a corner with this.

    They spent a great deal of effort "protecting" low level characters by segregating queues by level, etc. Then you get to Level 50.

    They setup the ship tiers and skills so that Level 50 is pretty much into "biggest baddest ship" land, and it would be power creep to introduce even bigger and badder ships, then people would be really complaining about the Zen spent on Tier 5 ships from the C Store, Fleet ships, etc that would become useless. Plus where do we go from here? (10 Scimitars duct-taped together? Odyssey-X with T7 Connie module?)

    That being said, people have invested a great deal of time and EC into the rep system. Dilithium into the sets as well, so taking away the passives is causing a great deal of gripe as well. Problem is - the rep systems were seen as "leveling the character" past 50.

    Now fresh 50s like me are woefully underpowered in comparison to people who have been playing for years. Instead of creating harder content (admittedly alot of work), for veteran players - they want to level the playing field with newer ones. Especially since the plan is to introduce more and more rep systems.

    It seems like a design flaw in the overall thing, so I guess there is no easy fix. You hit max level, and all of a sudden you are competing with people who are essentially Level 50+. Maybe they shouldn't have protected lower level players all this time, and just had easier and harder areas - but that ship has sailed.

    Maybe the new rep system is going to help. If the plan is new reps and a content-light future, it is probably the only way to go. However, I know that for one, I'll investigate what powers I want, and only grind the reps I want for those traits. No sense in levelling up things I won't use - especially as now it looks like equipment is all going to be up at the higher tiers).
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,077 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    That being said, people have invested a great deal of time and EC into the rep system. Dilithium into the sets as well, so taking away the passives is causing a great deal of gripe as well.

    I've seen the EC and Dilithium costs mentioned previously. And I'm not swayed by that at all.

    Reasons being:

    - The other incentives of the reputation tiers, in terms of EC cost.
    - What actually costs Dil.

    So EC. I can almost see what you're getting at. There are a lot of hypos and industrial replicators to sink into the reps. Though with Dyson (and thus with season 9 ALL the other reps) that gets alleviated a bit, and turned into straight EC.

    But like, you're doing that grind usually for a bit more than just the passives. And with this new system, the dynamic will be that many people may just skip the tiers or skip tiers 3, 4 and 5. So the costs get lowered, unless you see something you want. Which then the cost is justified.

    I can still see your point but feel that EC cost isn't much of a hassle so I'm not swayed.

    Dilithium on the other hand ...

    If you're spending Dilithium in the reputation system, it's to get gear.

    Which means you're getting something besides a trait.

    Which means I don't understand what the complaint is at all. With this change, even if you want the kinetic cutting beam you're still going to have to pay dilithium for it then as you do now. And that has nothing to do with the traits that are changing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ralphgraphiteralphgraphite Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I've seen the EC and Dilithium costs mentioned previously. And I'm not swayed by that at all.

    ...

    Which means I don't understand what the complaint is at all. With this change, even if you want the kinetic cutting beam you're still going to have to pay dilithium for it then as you do now. And that has nothing to do with the traits that are changing.

    It's mostly the EC. newer players have sunk a large portion of their EC into the rep (and Fleet systems), I have just gotten my character past 10million recently because the amount of commodities and consumables required to level the rep. I think alot of kicking and screaming is because time was "invested" and now that investment is being nerfed.

    I probably shouldn't have mentioned the dilithium, it's just for the gear, as you point out. I'm not even affected, but I would imagine there are alot of people with partially completed Mk XI sets that may get toasted by the removal of THOSE.

    I remain cautiously optimistic about the changes. Heck, it barely impacts me, as I'm only Tier 3 and 2 on my reps. I'll still be able to slot most of the passives that I've earned so far.

    But I can see where the whinging is coming from, for those who aren't EC "rich". :)
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,077 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    but I would imagine there are alot of people with partially completed Mk XI sets that may get toasted by the removal of THOSE.

    Ahhhhhh. Now I think I understand that a lot better now.

    And that's something worth giving feedback on, and possibly there's a turn-in they can do to alleviate that particular aspect of the change. As they've done in the past with other similar type issues.

    So yeah, I think I get the Dilithium thing now. But that's something I think with a little dialog can be worked out. Hopefully.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • donrahdonrah Member Posts: 348
    edited March 2014
    Leveling and rep systems are just an excuse to not create any content that's worth playing for its own sake rather than for the purpose of getting items or currency. Why do that when you can just make the players run in the hamster wheel trying to get more powerful gear so they can keep up with the rest of the hamsters? It's a problem that new level 50's are much less effective than veteran level 50's. The game is full of cyclical incentives. Grind gear so you can grind to get better gear so you can grind to get better gear, on and on. The game is totally centered around acquisition of items and totally ignores the role playing aspect.

    The theme of this game is meaningless, the plots are meaningless. You could swap this game out with just about any motif you like and it would work just the same. This isn't a Star Trek RPG, it's a Star Trek themed skinner box. Currently, the only way for players to have a true Star Trek experience is by creating it themselves in the Foundry and impose restrictions on themselves. That means you have to totally reject the experience that Cryptic has created and form your own. That's good for player imagination and creativity, but it reflects poorly on Cryptic.
    Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
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