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New Reputation Trait System - [Picture]

sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
Well well well,.... so its on Tribble.

Basically you have now 4 slots for space and 4 for ground.. which can be slotted as you wish.. true.. but the problem is.. as the picture shows, i just slotted the dyson and romulan ground powers (half of them, that is actually) there.
not a single nukara OR omega power.
and the undine are not even there yet..
so basically all the whining about the power creep now has as consequence that the grinding for the rep powers to get them all and use them all was... well useless.
no more shineys as passives more than four each. and as it seems you have to stick with them once slotted. or get a respec token.... (YES I PRESSED THE UNSTICK BOXES THEY DONT WORK FOR ME, ONCE TICKED IT STAYS FOR ME AT LAST)

as far as i can tell for the currently 4 reputation systems it makes each 4 ground and 4 space passive powers over all having 16 space and 16 ground passives to chose from, (if you decided to do the grind for all)


rendering various powers now each for ground and for space completely useless and not slottable.
the whole thing i did (partly) the grinding for was that i could at least chose ONE power per rep rank... that is now obsolete and will be even more when another and another and another rep system will be added.

again the undine Reputation that is coming is NOT included yet in this, so that would add another 4 ground and 4 space powers afterwards that are hanging un-used. and then now also 1 active power not usable.

here the Picture of how it looks currently on tribble

Reputation Trait Skills


in contradiction to the current system where you earned each REP Tier one slot for a passive, and with T5 you earned the T5 active power. the system was there to benefit those who did the grind and make them a bit special.. if now the whole grind or the most of it is useless as i cant use 75% of the powers. i don't think its a brilliant move and could be implemented better into the game.

if we would have undine rep now that would make 20 passive powers that are slotted and 5 actives.
with the new system it will be 8 passives and 4 active.

so 12 passive powers less that are slotted (included the undine rep)
that's 3 full rep systems (if you have 4 slots for each rep as it was currently)

no matter how many more Reps there will be (and they sure will add some again)
Post edited by sophus84at on
"Mei Borg is net deppat".....

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
«1

Comments

  • hevachhevach Member Posts: 2,763 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You don't need to stick with them. If you're out of combat and want to change, uncheck the one you want to drop, check the one you want to add.

    This is in the patch notes, in the dev blog... Or, you know, just try using the clearly not grayed out UI controls?
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    oh bugger , i clearly forgot how to use my mouse and never pressed that greyed out boxes... well ../sarcasm

    I DID

    and it did not work for me. just FYI

    still the point stays, to many reps for way to less slots
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pet1e86pet1e86 Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    just tested, able to change as many times as you wish out of combat.

    gone from 16 previous traits in which you were limited to choosing 1 out of 2 from each tier of the reputation to now choosing 8 from all reputations. all of which have been significantly buffed

    5% crith
    20% critD
    10% shield capacity
    10% all energy damage/10% all kinetic, are great buffs and i can see these4 being the most popular, but with the added advantage of changing on the fly

    so overall i think not a nerf, gone from 16 yes, to 8 yes, doesnt mean less is worse.
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    again. it doesn't work for me. as stated in the first post and in the second answer.

    also like always you are misleading my post im not upset that they cant be unstuck im upset that you only can have 8 passives at a time when now with the undine you should have 20 passives slots.

    and no its not only 8 its just 4 space powers where before and currently i have 8 passive powers all on shsield and hull i now only have 4 and that makes a difference
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Yes, all the work i did on 14 characters, unlocking all reputation systems is now all for not.
    Again cryptic is taking away things that cost me lots of time, dilithium and ec and gives noting back for it.
    And you know , the 5crth, 20crtd, +10% shield & damage when we all choose them cryptic will nerv this later...
    (under the rule, nothing must be better then the rest)
  • pet1e86pet1e86 Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    like talking to a brick wall

    You had 8 passives on hull and shield, now you can have 4.

    But them 4 combined are most likely equal if not better than the previous 8 combined

    as for the new undine traits, your moaning about getting 4 traits taken that you haven't been given yet???
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,280 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    bones1970 wrote: »
    Yes, all the work i did on 14 characters, unlocking all reputation systems is now all for not.
    Again cryptic is taking away things that cost me lots of time, dilithium and ec and gives noting back for it.
    And you know , the 5crth, 20crtd, +10% shield & damage when we all choose them cryptic will nerv this later...
    (under the rule, nothing must be better then the rest)

    Exactly, all those uniform options you unlocked, all the gear you unlocked or acquired, it's all deleted.


    Oh, wait, that did not happen.


    I suppose if Cryptic ever introduces a new console ability or a new bridge officer power, it's totally useless and meaningless because you alraedy have all console slots filled and all bridge officers trained up, right?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • kargisterkargister Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The OP is correct 110%. Sure you can unslot and use when you want, but realistically you'll end up with 4 "gottahaves" for each space and ground. This means when a new rep comes out you'll be getting gear and nothing more. You're not going to unslot a must use power.

    I'm sorry. I'm not grinding 4 levels of rep for maybe one power. Not worth the time. Considering the rep grind is the endgame here I think they're shooting themselves in the foot with this.
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    pet1e86 wrote: »
    like talking to a brick wall

    You had 8 passives on hull and shield, now you can have 4.

    But them 4 combined are most likely equal if not better than the previous 8 combined

    as for the new undine traits, your moaning about getting 4 traits taken that you haven't been given yet???

    yeah, i am stubborn.. but it just may be the point of view.

    the 4 combined are not better as i tested them and it doesnt work the way i wanted it and need it . the 4 powers do not compensate for all the 8 powers before. it just doesn't work that way. i am sorry. try it yourself built a tank ship but all hull and shield abilities on it and test fly it now and on holo. it is not the same and its not better.

    and yeah i am complaining about 4 powers we dont have.. as it will be more and hence what you will have to chose between 34 passives in the next year for only 4 slots.. come back then and if you just feel a slight inch of anger. turn yourself in.

    you say i am the brick wall still you fail to understand what i am complaining about.

    its my rant and you have your opinion that is valid for each point of view still my experience is not changed . i am still feeling anger about that we will have way to many passive powerws and only 4 slots. if the 4 powers were equal to the 8 powers they wouldnt have made them in the first place and just get rid of the others, (like with frequency modulation, that now gone)

    and yeah i know its supposed to work as you can chose them off combat. but again. it doesn't work. force verifing and new installing didn't help, i cannot chose another/ a different trait. ( i know thats a bug, thats why i am complaining about it... jebus fecking emperor)


    and serioulsy everyone who tries to tell me that 4 space powers are the same as 8 or 10... (even if nerfed or buffed) hasn't tested them on 4 different ships in different situations.

    i stay with my point, call me a brick as long as you want. but as long as i cannot change the traits it stays a bug which i am complaining and as long as all the work to get the passives that i have one passive each tier is now useless i stay also with my point.
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kargister wrote: »
    The OP is correct 110%. Sure you can unslot and use when you want, but realistically you'll end up with 4 "gottahaves" for each space and ground. This means when a new rep comes out you'll be getting gear and nothing more. You're not going to unslot a must use power.

    I'm sorry. I'm not grinding 4 levels of rep for maybe one power. Not worth the time. Considering the rep grind is the endgame here I think they're shooting themselves in the foot with this.

    thank god, finally someone who understood what i was trying to say all the time
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,280 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kargister wrote: »
    The OP is correct 110%. Sure you can unslot and use when you want, but realistically you'll end up with 4 "gottahaves" for each space and ground. This means when a new rep comes out you'll be getting gear and nothing more. You're not going to unslot a must use power.

    I'm sorry. I'm not grinding 4 levels of rep for maybe one power. Not worth the time. Considering the rep grind is the endgame here I think they're shooting themselves in the foot with this.

    The beauty is now - Cryptic can check which powers get slotted and which get ignored, and balance them. (Yes, potentially nerfing your favorite, but also potentially buffing something and giving you a new, interesting alternative). The current system gives no such information, you just have the ability, whether it's relevant you can only guess.



    What I think is not optimal is that you have to choose 4 actives - if get to the point where we have 3 ground and 3 space actives, for example, that means that you would probably always have to switch slotted reputation powers before you switch between space and ground. An unneccesary extra step. They could just give everyone 2 active space and 2 active ground slots. Or mayb 3 active ground and space, but tha twould mean that you could only slot all of them when the next reputation project after the Undine cmoes around. (Of course, they could start with 2 and increase it to 3 when that power becomes available.)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    i would also prefer to make the 4 active slots in universal slots..where you could either add 2 space and ground passives or actives.

    i barely do ground and the 2 ground actives are almost never used but as long as we dont have 8 rep systems that i can slot 4 active space powers it wont help
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • atlantraatlantra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's all transforming into one big cluster ****. Hopefully they just scrap all these rep changes. Somehow we're gonna end up with no reputations. I can see it now :mad:.
    The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    i can see that giving people freedom t chose the traits as they want and not just one per each tier has some advantages but then they should add one slot per tier per rep. it will get very unclear when the day comes and you can slot 34 passive space powers and you just have 4 slots




    an idea would be


    make the rep traits go loadout bound.. meaning each ship can slot different rep traits? then it could work better .

    as of now when chaning ship i would always have to change the passives for each ship. thats the same thing they tried t get rid of with their loadout system and the doff implemetation in the loadouts.
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The beauty is now - Cryptic can check which powers get slotted and which get ignored, and balance them. (Yes, potentially nerfing your favorite, but also potentially buffing something and giving you a new, interesting alternative). The current system gives no such information, you just have the ability, whether it's relevant you can only guess.

    This ^^

    Plus;

    1) Lots of people have been moaning for some time over power creep - this helps bring it under control. You cannot have it both ways, either Cryptic rein in power creep or not - simple.

    2) "Must have" items in STO is a subjective term, just because some may find 1 way "better" it does not mean we all will. Some of us like to toy with configs and find other ways to do things - this new system will add life to the game for some as they try new combos out.

    3) This is PWE / Cryptics game, they can do with it as they see fit - being able to login and play it, is a privilege, not a right.

    4) The new system is currently on the "Test Server" - aka; it is being tested. So, get on there and test it - as Cryptic see the numbers coming in they can tweak and change things to help balance them out. Sitting on the forums moaning IS NOT HELPING to collect data needed to balance the new traits.

    I think I'm done......
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    well i tested it and that was my very personal feedback if then said only positive feedback , or just test it and dont tell people what you think on the forums.. the whole testing could be just left out, wouldnt it?

    i am testing. the screenshot didnt made itself on tribble. exactly that why i am posting and "moaning" on the forum about it . as maybe also other people find my point interesting and think there should be something changed during test phase
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    More planning ahead, and less messing about, next time please. If there will indeed be a next time. I have doubts. :P

    --
  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    sophus84at wrote: »
    well i tested it and that was my very personal feedback if then said only positive feedback , or just test it and dont tell people what you think on the forums.. the whole testing could be just left out, wouldnt it?

    i am testing. the screenshot didnt made itself on tribble. exactly that why i am posting and "moaning" on the forum about it . as maybe also other people find my point interesting and think there should be something changed during test phase

    If this is "feedback" for your "testing" - it does not belong here, it belongs in the feedback part of the testing section of the forums :P

    See, posting the information in the wrong part of the forums changes the context of the post - as the Devs who have the power to use your "feedback" barley (if ever) come to General Discussion, they hang in the areas marked "Tribble"

    So, by posting this where those Devs are unlikely to see it, it's moaning. By posting it where they stand the best chance of seeing it, then it is "feedback".

    Plus have you tested every trait out (Space and Ground) - where are the results? Combat logs with each trait? videos of how it works? and so on.....
  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    to me this will just make a2b,dem,faw beam boats even stronger compared to other classes my escort needs every little bit of defence just to skrimp by in pvp compared to the hull melting a2b,dem,faw beam boats, looks like we are all going to have to kirk it, if this goes live I think it will be the nail in the coffin for this game for me, sick of wasting time and cash on getting skills/passives/items just to have them nerfed or taken away

    Please explain, how LESS active traits, equals stronger cruisers ?

    As far as I can tell, all ships are getting hit by this, not just your precious pwnscort.
  • donrahdonrah Member Posts: 348
    edited March 2014
    Clearly, the OP has never played the original Guild Wars. Each character has nearly 200 powers to slot and only 8 slots to put them in. Yet, it was fun. The rep traits are actually one of Cryptic's rare player-friendly moves.
    Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    no i havent played GW nor GW 2.
    and i also complained back when they introduced the Rep system the first place. i still dont like it but i got used to it. and the way it worked did actually work someway. now each season they change the whle friggin system all over instead of bug fixing thats okay. but still will cause trouble with some players. i speak for myself and as far as i can tell i dont need to play GW to dont like the new rep trait system here.


    for the other thing. i know what a feedback forum and what the tribble forum is.. but this was a general information, my personal obervation. so i put it in here. the first post just said i dont like the new system to many traits for less slots. all the misreading and putting me word into my mouth made a i dont like anything topic out of it.

    yeah i tested and eah i filed reports for everybug i found.. no you dont need to see each of them as you are not mum dad or a dev... in either case you dont have to talk to me like i would be a little child that cant use the forum and doesnt know where to post what.

    i played the whole night , exept 4 hours where it kept crashing whle updating. i tested all my 21 ships that are on my 2 tribble toons. one fed and one rom ... and with both i had the feeling that it didnt worked the same good way as it did before. i did slightely more damage... prblem i dont want to do damage i wanted hull and shield both are now in sme cases 4k less than before...

    yay.

    but why do i have to explain to you what i tested when. you also just give "advice" without giving useful info. you just behave like the ubergod and tell people what they already know. and questioning everybody.


    the strange thing in this forum is.. specially in the general discussion. some cant accept that people have other opinions that others..

    i for example accept that others dont have a problem with the traits aswell as the new system i am glad for them.

    still those others dont accept that i am not pleased by it and the way it works.. so my 2 cents specially for the guy who is questioning my very intelligence to find my own toilet.

    if you dont like what i think , search another topic. i stick to my first post and i still dont like the system. and i know that i tested it for myself long enough to be sure that it wont work well the way it is for me. i am aware that there are those uber super duper pro guys that wont have problems or will find every tweak in this new system. i was used to system now and spent time and money to tweak the traits and the skills that the ship i am flying most works and makes fun for me while playing. nothing more. now that doesnt work anything as it was intended and if neither the skills nor the other traits nor the space sets nor anything else exept the space passives changed.. why is the very same ship then now exploding over and over again while before i havent had a single problem...

    if you still insist on telling me every step like " this is the quote button, press it to quote someone"... even if i am long enough in the forum t remember the forum crash and the account deletions. i am sorry for you. and have nothing more to say as i am speechless.

    thanks for all the fish and have fun
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    here we go, with the new built in passives cruisers now have they get a built in marion doff so don't need the rep passives to get silly weapons power overcap on beams, but you didn't put your brain into gear first to just saw escort vs cruiser TRIBBLE, get in an escort and go against a true bfaw boat and then we will talk

    Go fly a cruiser - even with the new cruiser command system (which is an AOE remember so you benefit from it as well ). It does not stop all weapon power drain.

    You need to hit the shipyards, as your pwnscort can also make use of DEM 1 and related buffs/ boosts with cannon skills - oh and your cannons hit harder than beams.
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    here we go, with the new built in passives cruisers now have they get a built in marion doff so don't need the rep passives to get silly weapons power overcap on beams, but you didn't put your brain into gear first to just saw escort vs cruiser TRIBBLE, get in an escort and go against a true bfaw boat and then we will talk

    O_o i am flying escorts aswell as cruisers, and honestly for PvE it really doesnt matter much. you can do some STFs very fast aye. but why on earth do you want to do an ESTF in 2 mins anyways???

    i still play for the fun. and i like a bit longer missions, thats why i like the new undine assaults on tribble. i just dont like that yeah the cruiser build o me is now explding faster. if it hits holo deck i cant change a thing about it .. and will accept it and rebuild the ship with the skills. maybe then i find another normal fair way without spending too much money to respec everything and be happy with my ship again.

    funny thing is...
    why are you complaining that cruisers can now support better than before in an PVE mission.... arent we supposed to play that mission together anyways? no matter if escort or cruiser? i could understand if you rant because it hsa an effect on PvP escort vs cruiser builds... but you compare escort and cruiser build and complain that one is nerfed and the other is not in PvE... Oo? i dont get the point there sorry?

    if i have a cruiser in a group that can do the mission in 2 mins... well fine for him. he is on my side then and i dont care.


    still i think all builds and ships are hit by the new trait system for the passives. some in positive way some in negative. my escort now does a lot more damage, my cruiser blows up more fastly.
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    sophus84at wrote: »
    O_o i am flying escorts aswell as cruisers, and honestly for PvE it really doesnt matter much. you can do some STFs very fast aye. but why on earth do you want to do an ESTF in 2 mins anyways???

    i still play for the fun. and i like a bit longer missions, thats why i like the new undine assaults on tribble. i just dont like that yeah the cruiser build o me is now explding faster. if it hits holo deck i cant change a thing about it .. and will accept it and rebuild the ship with the skills. maybe then i find another normal fair way without spending too much money to respec everything and be happy with my ship again.

    funny thing is...
    why are you complaining that cruisers can now support better than before in an PVE mission.... arent we supposed to play that mission together anyways? no matter if escort or cruiser? i could understand if you rant because it hsa an effect on PvP escort vs cruiser builds... but you compare escort and cruiser build and complain that one is nerfed and the other is not in PvE... Oo? i dont get the point there sorry?

    if i have a cruiser in a group that can do the mission in 2 mins... well fine for him. he is on my side then and i dont care.


    still i think all builds and ships are hit by the new trait system for the passives.
    some in positive way some in negative. my escort now does a lot more damage, my cruiser blows up more fastly.

    You are right, we are all getting hit by this. Just someone who wants an "I Win" button and crying due to not getting it.

    I applaud Cryptic for trying to get a handle on power creep, not many MMOs try to do that.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I just don't get why Cryptic doesn't increase enemy toughness to compensate, I mean sooo many other MMO's create harder CR's, higher needed or preferred level requirements, and even go so far as to restrict player's of to low of level to even enter such challenging missions, or do so at your own peril.

    To really say there needs be a snatch and grab of our progressing power creep by rep be it little, instead of ever increasing challenges or increased enemy difficulty is pretty poor game design.

    It's like adding tons of power creep that cannot ever really be used much, all while rewinding the clock back to S7, than S6, than S5, than S4, than S3, than S2, and S1 as far as power progress was allowed.

    You know that feeling of a carrot hanging over your head, now imagine them pulling it up higher when you jump for it, or extending the length of how far you need to reach out to get it when you move forward.

    Yes the game would be nice with actual balance, but really how many MMO's care ultimately about pvp balance?

    Most player's hardly if ever play the game just for that side of it, the vast majority want npc enemies to slaughter, with ever increasing story and enemy challenges to increase with their power creep.

    Some people tend to grasp this as progress, where a game developing need a rewind. (nothing against you guys/gals at Cryptic I know you do what you can)

    Dun dun dun "I am Superman" "wait wait wait hold on, due to development constraints, and ever growing power creep we need to knock you back a notch."

    "I am the night, I am vengeance, I am batman,wait wait sorry you are still to OP, we got to take it down a notch."

    "I am kickass" Is this where you prefer the game to progress to?
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,712 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I just don't get why Cryptic doesn't increase enemy toughness to compensate, I mean sooo many other MMO's create harder CR's, higher needed or preferred level requirements, and even go so far as to restrict player's of to low of level to even enter such challenging missions, or do so at your own peril.

    Because content has to be completable by any level 50 that can listen to directions or raise the level cap. So Cryptic has to balance the game for fresh level 50s that don't have good equipment and the veteran level 50s that have Fleet Equipment and Reputation Equipment that make them tougher than fresh level 50s. The only exception is NWS since it is supposed to be the only real challenging content in the game, but I suppose a really skilled fresh level 50 could complete it.
  • donrahdonrah Member Posts: 348
    edited March 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    Because content has to be completable by any level 50 that can listen to directions or raise the level cap. So Cryptic has to balance the game for fresh level 50s that don't have good equipment and the veteran level 50s that have Fleet Equipment and Reputation Equipment that make them tougher than fresh level 50s. The only exception is NWS since it is supposed to be the only real challenging content in the game, but I suppose a really skilled fresh level 50 could complete it.

    Then the solution is to level the field between new level 50's and those with max rep. It creates a disparity between the two since they're both playing the same content. It's like putting level 30 players in with level 50 and having them do STF's together. In PvP, it gets even worse. All level 50's need to be equal or it breaks the balance of the game, like it does now.

    One possible solution is to create new reputation content that's suited to the higher tiers of that rep track. So vet players get access to content that suites their skill level and doesn't mix with the newly promoted VA's. Having each rep track progress separately would cause problems as well since an Omega Tier VI would have to play with Tier I in Dyson until they increase their rep. So that requires a unified rep mark that applies to all rep tracks equally and relegating the old marks as a sub currency for each rep track. The old marks would be spent on rep gear while the universal marks would apply to all rep tracks and that would mean the requirements for each Tier would have to be increased proportionately. That's the way, if you want to preserve the grind.

    Another possible solution is to make all of the rep gear and traits available as soon as you reach level 50. This would require all new end-game content since the rep missions were only a grind for the traits and gear. This would probably require a massive overhaul of the game, possibly even the engine itself. But honestly, this game needs an overhaul.ew civilizations to the Federation/Empire.
    Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
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