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Season 9 Dev Blog #5: Changes to Reputation Powers

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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You are so blinded in your unilateral support of this game and company.

    I like Star Trek. I really don't like Cryptic at all that much. But I had an epiphany of sorts this year. I just stopped caring about those annoying things and started focusing on the stuff I like. The Star Trek stuff.

    I chilled out.

    I highly recommend it.
    Just look at any other MMO

    I also recommend not doing what you just said. It leads to buying into the illusion that this game has tiered progression end-game. It doesn't. And it's not being built that way.
    The MOBs and boss level fights are creative and different requiring players to think, manage engagements, have the need for varied group structure.


    Eh, I've done enough dragon raiding in Everquest and WoW to remember that this too is an illusion.

    Death touches. AoEs. Rampages. Moving around from A to B. Hiding behind a leg or a wall. Training, mezzing, offtanking adds. None of it is all that creative. And once you start reading the strats online, it's all just academic anyways.

    Nah, there wasn't much "creative" about that end-game content from that other game you want me to remember.

    Not enough to move my needle. It's not like this game's all that creative either. But this game has Star Trek ships. Those games don't. That's pretty much it for me. And I'm betting that carries the day for quite a lot of people.

    I just don't need Into the Hive to feel like Onyxia.

    And hey, those new Undine missions are a bit glitchy but absolutely nothing like ISE at least.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    No doubt, Yep dats me. :P



    wrong person lol
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Real funny, I support noobs because I'm not the kind of elitist who thinks only me and my 7 buddies who have the time to play 24/7 should be able to do basic content. I have the resources to do that, but I've learned my lesson the last time I tried a game like that and ended in the 'jackass' crowd before it went even further downhill.

    Whaaaattt?
    I can do basic content with a newly created toon. Wth are you doin wrong? LOL
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Na

    Dev Blog #6... upcoming changes to Player vs Player ques.

    Dev Blog #7... upcoming changes to Energy Weapon skills.

    Dev Blog #8... upcoming changes to the duty officer system.

    Dev Blog #9... upcoming changes to ship consoles.

    no it will be

    Dev Blog #9... We just killed our game and we don't give a **** one way or another what (I'll be generous) 90% of our userbase says
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    no it will be

    Dev Blog #9... We just killed our game and we don't give a **** one way or another what (I'll be generous) 90% of our userbase says

    here here!

    pwe for the whiners, not the winners :P
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • no09dysonsphereno09dysonsphere Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    f it were not there would have been alternate solutions to this issue rather than lets make a fresh 50 equal to a veteran 50.

    As far as I can tell no one is saying that and I certainly hope that is not the goal. The problem isn't that fresh 50s aren't equal to veteran 50s, it's that equality is gated behind a grind. I agree fresh 50s shouldn't be as powerful as vets, but it shouldn't be so discouraging that most people will never catch up, and at some point with 20 reps that is going to happen. Having to do harder content, collect better gear, I don't think anyone will be against that, but having to log in every day and do the same mindless, simple TRIBBLE, that's like a second job and not fun, because really, is there any sense of satisfaction from doing the 5 minute errand run to get a dyson commendation?
    craig76 wrote: »
    Whaaaattt?
    I can do basic content with a newly created toon. Wth are you doin wrong? LOL

    I do breach elite in a cell ship. So what?
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    craig76 wrote: »
    Make your changes to suit the whining noobs PWE. Dont listen to us vets. Keeo nerfing everything, because a day will will come where all you have left playing the game, is ftp whiners that dont spend a dime in supporting the game
    And half the noobs that do start playing will leave anyway.
    Im done spending money on this game. And when i get to that point, its normally not too long before i move on to bigger and better things.
    If you want to lose a vet, keep doin what you're doin

    Well you are assuming the supporters are not vets... and don't spend money. Interesting that you would come to that conclusion some how. :)

    If them instituting a standard MMO design on a system that should have had it I will admit from day one really upsets you perhaps this isn't the right game for you anyway.

    We both know you aren't going anywhere if you been here for the last 4 years though... unless you are full of it and have been playing the game for a year or so which is likely. ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • tarrennistarrennis Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    A large amount of bonus dilithium should be given for each Reputation completed. I spent a lot of resources on this only to have the number of powers Cut in half. This is a nerf!
  • anagrojanewayanagrojaneway Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I do honestly feel really sorry for some of you guys that only play to grind. Really what joy do you take in any of this.

    When you where done all your reps what was your plan... stop playing until more stuff came out ?

    This change quite honestly has NOTHING to do at all with PvP. Hawk has made that clear... and if ANYONE playing this game thinks the devs listen to us Winy PvP players there must be something in your local water supply... and can I come over for a glass.

    There is no level 50 PvE scaling right now... its sort of the issue.


    The scaling system is built into the game. Go into your options, and then you can see that you can select the difficulty. That could easily be adjusted further, the system is already there.

    As I stated, I don't play to grind - I play to progress, at my own pace. And at the rate they are adding reputations, just about time you finish one, another is coming out. Because I don't just "grind", there was plenty of content to want to play through and to reap the benefits of.

    Now, I have no need to get more powers I have to swap out all the time, or not use. It's not attractive any longer.

    And I'm sorry, you know as well as I do in spite of what one Dev said in one post that this is ALL about PvP and making the PvP in this game MOBA-player friendly.

    It's not about them listening to you - it's because MOBA is the "hot new thing" in online games, and someone in a board room told them to make something to attract that crowd, and this is the first step. I'm sure that any PvP changes we hear about will be very MOBA-lite, which is precisely the road they have us traveling down starting here.

    Not everyone has the "need it now" PvP mentality - and the reputation "grind" as you call it isn't that bad to begin with - and in fact, the other changes announced make it even easier.

    But I wouldn't expect you to understand this, as you stated, you are mostly a PvP player, so of course you will welcome changes that benefit PvP play. PvPers generally play with a different priorities and mentality than other players.

    Without a reason to complete tiers and content, there isn't much left for middle-of-the-road players. There are some great folks in the game, but contrary to long-held myth, average folks don't play MMO's because they want to be "social" - it's a nice addition to a game, and makes things like economy and other things more enjoyable, but not the motivating factor for playing for most people.

    You take away progression, or reason to progress, you take away a lot of folks reasons for playing. A glorified online chatroom isn't really what makes people play MMO's.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Niche and genre games will all have their people who feel the same way you might about Oberths and Packled's here. So your comment is inflammatory to other communities of gamers. You like this, they like other things. To them a flaming sword is just as good.

    /sigh

    You didn't even spell Pakleds right. Which means you really didn't let the idea that people froth at the mouth about the Oberth sink in. There's dozens of threads asking for small changes to saucer details on the Galaxy. That think the Intrepid's graphics aren't quite right. There's a very vocal minority of posters who want to fly the Original Enterprise from Kirk's era at Tier 5. And I've read posts from those people who would gladly pay over 200 bucks just to do that. There's a flaming sword (btw ... can you name me one famous flaming sword? Cause I can name three famous Star Trek ships that people post about daily on here) ... anyways, there's a flaming sword, and then there's people who start threads titled "What's Your Beef With the Galaxy Cryptic?"

    Again, I ask you to let that sink in a little. The churn your so concerned about? Really isn't as big a problem as you think it is, since this game doubles as a virtual online collectible star trek ships game. Pokemon-stylings with Star Trek ships.

    Also, churn and retention work differently with the free to play model. Which is where the slant toward getting new players in the door most likely comes from.

    By sifting through larger groups of new players, they get more people in the door to make purchases on those shiny collectible ships. And a fraction of those new players become part of the growing loyal customers who, even if they post rant after rant on the forum, will come back to buy a new shiny Star Trek ship when they hear about it.

    Like at an anniversary event or something.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I like Star Trek. I really don't like Cryptic at all that much. But I had an epiphany of sorts this year. I just stopped caring about those annoying things and started focusing on the stuff I like. The Star Trek stuff.

    Well I am at least happy to see you and I both agree on how this company is handling the IP. I am chilled out, I could care diddly what they do with the rep system in this game because it is poorly implemented and supported "end-game" content. I rarely log in for the gimmicks "limited time events" because they are not worth it. The two things that make this game worthwhile to me are friends in it to play with in a group (playing in a group is honestly the best way to take this game) and that it is Star Trek. This game should have been a complex sandbox. Instead, we get a halfpale full of sand every six months or so. Eventually, in four more years there might be something there, but until then...

    The game lacks diversity. You know what...take away the rep powers like they are doing but add new raids at each level (better then the Nukara stuff). What they are doing is an illusion of diversity.

    As far as seeing what your competition is doing, I disagree with you there. Each game out there has a few good things that work well. None of them are perfect, but don't develop in a vacuum.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kitsune424 wrote: »
    no it will be

    Dev Blog #9... We just killed our game and we don't give a **** one way or another what (I'll be generous) 90% of our userbase says

    Some times to make an omelet... ya gotta break a few eggs. :)

    Honestly for this game to be viable long term imo at least they need to seriously hit a bunch of stuff with the nerf bat. I would rather they did it all fast and hard and got it over with.

    The trek geeks are going to forgive them...

    The only real thing I want to see is a better game... and honestly the status que of power creep on top of creep is going to end this game early as I see it.

    Rip the band aids off fast and treat the real issues...

    This was one... now we need to see FAW addressed... consoles ... doffs and boffs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I believe the OP wants to oust them all. French Revolution style.

    Only if it's not a musical.
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Well you are assuming the supporters are not vets... and don't spend money. Interesting that you would come to that conclusion some how. :)

    If them instituting a standard MMO design on a system that should have had it I will admit from day one really upsets you perhaps this isn't the right game for you anyway.

    We both know you aren't going anywhere if you been here for the last 4 years though... unless you are full of it and have been playing the game for a year or so which is likely. ;)

    ohhhh and you just know everything about anything including me dont you mr know it all :P
    I played a mmo that i spent thousands of hours on and heaps of $'s on, i quit playing it because they listened to whiners and wrecked the game.......mmmmm, sounds like just whats happening with sto
    I played that game for 4 years. Sorry chum, you dont know me, dont pretend too. As i stated, if i decide to stop spending money, my next step, is find another game. Which ive already started doing. Hence, why i said i might try star citizen or Elite when they come out.
    I been playing since 2012 i think. Been a lts since the day i started playing. Nice try bub, but maybe, just maybe you are full of it to the brim eh? :P
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The scaling system is built into the game. Go into your options, and then you can see that you can select the difficulty. That could easily be adjusted further, the system is already there.

    Oh I see so I can go into that one change it to hard... and then I won't be able to complete an infected run in 2min.... oh ok didn't know it worked that way. lol

    No one is talking about mission content. We are talking about actual end game MMO content. Stuff you que up for with friends... or alone and get paired with some new single serving friends. :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I would only believe they are serious about stopping power creep if they make changes to doff stacking and trait stacking.

    Nerf the ability to have 3 tech doffs and 3 Inspirational Leader traits - then I will believe this is really about balancing new level 50's with Vet 50's

    Since mostly those things are pure pay-to-win (most purple tech doffs are bought as it takes a Looonng time to get 3 from the Btran chain and of course the leader trait comes from a lock-box), I don't expect any real changes to the power gap between pay-to-win and non pay to win.

    I am positive that a 40k DPS player could level a new toon - outfit it with top fleet gear - OP doffs and OP traits and OP pay to win consoles - and still blow through a Elite infected in under 3 min - with ZERO rep

    All this tells me is that they don't want to provide any more challenging content for existing players since they have already got your time and money, but will focus on new players to suck up their money till they too get bored.

    But it make business sense I guess.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Did you bring a flag?.....no Flag no Country you can't have one that's the rules
    GwaoHAD.png
  • kitsune424kitsune424 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Some times to make an omelet... ya gotta break a few eggs. :)

    Honestly for this game to be viable long term imo at least they need to seriously hit a bunch of stuff with the nerf bat. I would rather they did it all fast and hard and got it over with.

    The trek geeks are going to forgive them...

    The only real thing I want to see is a better game... and honestly the status que of power creep on top of creep is going to end this game early as I see it.

    Rip the band aids off fast and treat the real issues...

    This was one... now we need to see FAW addressed... consoles ... doffs and boffs.

    I can agree for the most part, but when it comes to things people PAY for? I disagree to the point that I would fight the entire Q continum(or God himself if that is your fancy, because on a F2P you SHOULD get better gear for using real money) about it, other than that, no issue what so ever
    We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Some times to make an omelet... ya gotta break a few eggs. :)

    Honestly for this game to be viable long term imo at least they need to seriously hit a bunch of stuff with the nerf bat. I would rather they did it all fast and hard and got it over with.

    The trek geeks are going to forgive them...

    The only real thing I want to see is a better game... and honestly the status que of power creep on top of creep is going to end this game early as I see it.

    Rip the band aids off fast and treat the real issues...

    This was one... now we need to see FAW addressed... consoles ... doffs and boffs.

    Want the FAW nerfed too do ya?
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • wakerobertswakeroberts Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This is horse ****. You're telling me that all those hours I dedicated to levelling up in all the reps is now wasted as I no longer will be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor, i.e. the 20 abilities that I earned. Now I will have that figure cut in half, all because the new guy thinks it's unfair that my toon is better than his. Well guess what, too ****ing bad!!! I've been playing this game for 4 years non-stop. If he wants his toon to be better, stop your pissing and moaning and put in the work. I don't claim to be the greatest living organism ever to grace STO, and I don't care to be. But when I have worked for something to have it suddenly taken away, I take great exception to that. So, I reiterate; this is horse ****.
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    /sigh You didn't even spell Pakleds right. Which means you really didn't let the idea that people froth at the mouth about the Oberth sink in.

    Whether or not I spelled Pakled correctly has no bearing on whether or not I get or believe your idea. You are making erroneous conclusions in that regard. I have a room full of Star Trek collectibles...

    What you are not seeing is the "bleed" in the "loyal" customer base. They also churn. You want proof, watch your friends list. There are fewer and fewer "long-term loyal veteran" players. Changes like this do not promote them sticking round. What is being done is the cheapest solution to promote the churn. I am not saying it is not a good business model, they are making money, it is not a sustained business model. If their business is not to have a sustained Star Trek game, then they are making the best business decision.
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    OK so we now have probably 1/2 dozen threads about this, plus the what 90+ pages of the Dev Blog so ... For those that are planning on rage quitting ...

    Can I haz your stuffs?

    Eventually I'm hoping Cryptic are planning a "Player Loadout" feature similar to the ship loadout one, and I can see this as the first step in implementing it. I can also see that Cryptic are looking at ways of getting new and keeping them, at least for a little while.

    I'm one of those new players, who was talking a very long sideways look at the "grind" ahead of me and wondering if I should bother, trying to compete with players who have been around for several years is neither "fun" nor "entertaining" particularly when many of them are ... not very polite and helpful people ...

    With the updates coming in S9 however, I'm looking forward to leveling more toons, and getting them set up ... It's vastly improved my desire to stay with the game, at least for the foreseeable future.
    Oh, hoho hohhhhh, Oh,, hoho, hohhhhh
    My%20STO%20Sig%20Clear_zps5etu86s1.png
  • craig76craig76 Member Posts: 775 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This is horse ****. You're telling me that all those hours I dedicated to levelling up in all the reps is now wasted as I no longer will be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor, i.e. the 20 abilities that I earned. Now I will have that figure cut in half, all because the new guy thinks it's unfair that my toon is better than his. Well guess what, too ****ing bad!!! I've been playing this game for 4 years non-stop. If he wants his toon to be better, stop your pissing and moaning and put in the work. I don't claim to be the greatest living organism ever to grace STO, and I don't care to be. But when I have worked for something to have it suddenly taken away, I take great exception to that. So, I reiterate; this is horse ****.

    totally agree with you
    I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
    planet-space-sun.jpg
  • switchngcswitchngc Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's the former. Of the 32 total passives in your example, 16 are Space and 16 are Ground. For your 4 Space choices, you can pick any of the 16 Space powers. For your 4 Ground choices, you can pick any of the 16 Ground powers.
    If you had 8 nickels before, and now you have 4 dimes, is that a nerf because you have half as many coins?

    Seems to me that those two quotes contradict each other. Seems like we go from 16 nickels to 4 nickels... Though we can swap our 4 nickels for other nickels from time to time, we still only have 4.

    I don't see how you think that going from 32 passives to 8 passives is the same as going from 8 nickels to 4 dimes.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    now we need to see FAW addressed... consoles ... doffs and boffs.

    They'll get around to those soon enough. They've already hinted at internal testing and work they're doing regarding some changes to BOFF powers. I'm sure they're very aware of what fire at will does and the builds that abuse it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    bendalek wrote: »
    OK so we now have probably 1/2 dozen threads about this, plus the what 90+ pages of the Dev Blog so ... For those that are planning on rage quitting ...

    .

    They always say they are leaving they never do, there are people on the forums who whine every update who said they were leaving because of Season 7.


    You know who you are.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    switchngc wrote: »
    I don't see how you think that going from 32 passives to 8 passives is the same as going from 8 nickels to 4 dimes.

    Probably because they buffed every single one of those passives. So the new passives are higher coins (dimes > nickels) but you have less of those coins (4 < 8).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    To be honest, don't know what to make of this
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
      edited March 2014
      can someone explain to me, why are folks complaing about this? if you only PvE , the only rep that truly matters is T4 shield regen Omega(which is apparently getting buffed lol), and if you PvP you're supposed to adapt anyway.
    • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
      edited March 2014
      phoenicius wrote: »
      can someone explain to me, why are folks complaing about this? if you only PvE , the only rep that truly matters is T4 shield regen Omega(which is apparently getting buffed lol), and if you PvP you're supposed to adapt anyway.

      They're complaining because they feel their characters are getting nerfed. The original Rep Power system was essentially "Complete a tier, choose a passive power". At this point, you have 32 powers and you'd pick 16 of them. The upcoming new one forces players to choose 4 ground and 4 space, cutting the choices from 16 to 8 and effectively killing their min/max builds.

      EDIT: Forgot something - however, in compensation, they're buffing up all the old powers to make them better than before.
    This discussion has been closed.