Why Raider Flanking Nerf'd vs Players?

oakland4life · March 2014

I know about the other improvements such as 10% Hull increase and the 10% increase ambush damage from out of cloak, but with even with these so-called slight improvements the Tier 5 BoP'S are still ways off to be equal to most Tier 5 ships in PvP so Flanking be reduced in damage against enemy players in PvP that can survive alot longer now with Team Powers changes, while Flanking can be used in it's full potential against NPC's enemies that can't even last more than 1 sec in frontal attack.

Why do i say this?

First off the clear disadvantage of BoP Raider vs Comparable ships

- 6 weapons slots on Raider vs 6 on Sci Ships (which will get Secondary deflector soon), 6 on Carriers (which has 2 hangers to make up for it), 7 of Raptors & Escorts and 8 on all Cruisers.
- 4 Boffs Stations so BoP's players cannot add more Space Traits to increase survivability or increase damage (Carriers too have 4 Boff Station but still has the same amount of Boff Abilities as other ships)
- 1 less Boff Station Ability compare to all ships (except Fleet Norgh but it loses a Console in return) (Breen Raider is 33% dmg in PvE but it too reduce'd down to 11% vs players, but it has a 5th Boff Station and can use the same amount of Boffs Abilities as any ship in T5)
- Weak Shield Mod
- Weak Hull (even after Buff)
- Most T5 BoP have only 3 consoles with only 1 BoP having 4 tac the Hoh'SuS

here's the BoP's has been advantages...
- Turn Rate and Speed which in today's STO would not matter now due to the fact that alot of stuff in this game now greatly improve turn rate and speed to most types of ships of all classes, gonna also point out that the Flanking ability does NOT work 100% only if u stay to the enemy rear all the time, which smart enough players will mostly avoid especially when they're on escorts with upgraded speed and turn rates from consoles and boff abilities.
- Battle Cloak: the once exculsive ability to BoP's is now already widely used by a Sub-Faction of Ships not only with Battle Cloaks, But many of them have more Tac consoles, full Boff seatings and abilities, and have stats of those of Federation Escorts and Cruisers with Sig Abilities (at the expense of a few power level's) and a whole group of Boff with space traits that can make waribrds do more damage, increase defense and have 10 sec cloak that would make any BoP raider players looks stupid.

I don't understand why Cryptic make the Flanking ability that does not do universal damage to all targets while it's clear that BoP's/Raiders has alot more disadvantages than advantages. also i will point out why did Cryptic increase Flanking damage vs NPC's targets which that NPC's even NPC's bosses are very weak even at the Elite level's with more and more rep's added on and with all the survivability added recently it's no doubt that a single well geared Romulan player PvP Scimitar could dominate STF's Elite Donatra Scmitar 1 on 1 with no effort.

Cruisers have their Cruisers Commands, While Sci Ships gonna soon get their Secondary Deflector and a revamp Sensor Analysis which works similar of that of Cruiser Commands which either will increase dmg to the enemy or increase the amount of heal on nearby allies, which none of these gonna be nerf'd vs players may i add.

I also gonna point out that Escorts already taken a back seat to first the Romulan Warbirds, then Cruisers and soon 2 be revamp Sci Ships, therefor i believe they should their own ablities either a Passive or a Toggle. I believe they should have a survival ability since they already have good offense, like the ''Long Range Sensor Masking'' that are on the Hirogen ships since Escorts are small and mostly likely less power than such on power consuming ships such as the Cruisers, Sci Ships and Carriers... but i doubt this will be added since it was made for those lock box ships, so Cryptic will have to bring something up for escorts...

bobtheyak · March 2014

I'm surprised Cryptic even bothered to make the damage bonus different against players. They usually focus on PvE with most new additions and ignore how they hurt players. Maybe it's a sign of the PvP acknowledgement to come? *cross fingers*

*P.S. 1/2 damage against players would still be acceptable. 1/3 is a bit too low.

antoniosalieri · March 2014

bobtheyak wrote: »

I'm surprised Cryptic even bothered to make the damage bonus different against players. They usually focus on PvE with most new additions and ignore how they hurt players. Maybe it's a sign of the PvP acknowledgement to come? *cross fingers*

*P.S. 1/2 damage against players would still be acceptable. 1/3 is a bit too low.

I think all they did was annoy a few people. It seems to me that it is proof that if they wanted to "tune" p2w so that it wasn't so obnoxious in PvP they could. So if they don't they are pretty much admitting they don't care at all about PvP balance as long as the Iwin buttons are paid for.

Of course some one less jaded may choose to believe they just developed the tech and they will now do a proper PvP balance pass of all the things that need a 50% reduction in PvP on them.

dontdrunkimshoot · March 2014

the flanking bonus does seem a bit lite, but that extra ~8% will outdo at least 2 tac consoles if im not mistaken, more when you stack all the tac buff multipliers

rudiefix1 · March 2014

I am fine with the fact that a bop is smaller, and has weaker structure and shields compared to fed ships. I handle bops very well and like them much. The property of having 4 universal boffs makes them very unique. You can do things with bops you cannot do on any other ship. That with 1 wep less than escorts, warbirds raptors and destroyers. But true they could use a little bit more hull/shields.

However, I would rather like to see that they will move one aft wep to front (5-1). It is a raider after all!!! Also because of the high turn rate it makes more sense. This way cryptic doesnt need to design strange ideas to compensate for bops

now i think of it, I would much favor that raptors and higher turn fedscorts will have 5-2, and that the lower turning destroyers keep 4-3. It would make the escort class really distinctive again from the science class and cruiser class. Also people may use cannons more again on these ships

dova25 · March 2014

Did the flanking bonus arrived on holodeck ?

I know it is live on Tribble but if it is live on holodeck I have to change my signature ........
(I use the free raider from event so the flanking bonus was there all the time )

oakland4life · March 2014

rudiefix1 wrote: »

I am fine with the fact that a bop is smaller, and has weaker structure and shields compared to fed ships. I handle bops very well and like them much. The property of having 4 universal boffs makes them very unique. You can do things with bops you cannot do on any other ship. That with 1 wep less than escorts, warbirds raptors and destroyers. But true they could use a little bit more hull/shields.

However, I would rather like to see that they will move one aft wep to front (5-1). It is a raider after all!!! Also because of the high turn rate it makes more sense. This way cryptic doesnt need to design strange ideas to compensate for bops

I'm fine with the BoP's Hull, Shields and Turn Rate stats as they are, mostly because i'm used to the tactic's i've been using... hit & run and harassment of enemy players ships and i also know the limitations of the BoP's classes as well which there's a huge gap between them and other Ships at T5 is quite huge before and after these so-called buff's.

I agree that 4 Universal bOff stations does make them unique but it to have limitations on the builds u can apply to it effectively which is either Tactical or Science, i think using an Engineering build on BoP is totally pointless due to the limited offensive nature of the ship while having virtually no real defense compared to other ships at comparable Tiers.

Also while having 4 Uni Boff stations on BoP's there are more severe limitations on them, first off BoP's only could use 11 BOff abilities oppose to 12 of that on other ships at Tier 5 and while having only 4 Uni BOff stations they cannot add a 5th BOff that has a space trait which would be 1 less Nausicaan Pirate, Rom Embassy Superior Operative, Superior Subterfuge or whatever new space traits from future BOff's. while saying that i must add the Fleet Norgh is the only BoP that can use 12 BOff's abilities in return it can only use 9 Consoles oppose to 10 of Fleet and higher end Tier 5 ships.

The Vo'Quv too have 4 BOff Stations while they're not universal as the BoP's it has a full 12 BOff abilities oppose to 11 on BoP's but it too cannot exploit 1 extra space trait, but on the other hand it has the same amount of weapons, 2 hanger bays, alot more hull, more shields.
So if to put a well geared Fleet BoP vs a carrier like a Fleet Vo'Quv with Elite pets especially ones with tractor beams, the Fleet Vo'Quv would hands down win even though it has a terrible Turn Rate and Speed Mod.

And as for BoP Turn Rate and Speed Mod. u can see my first post starting the thread of why that BoP advantages is lost, gonna add that BoP & most Escorts have the same speed mod. and both the JHAS and Risian Corvette can outmatched BoP and most Escorts in speed.

dova25 wrote: »

Did the flanking bonus arrived on holodeck ?

I know it is live on Tribble but if it is live on holodeck I have to change my signature ........
(I use the free raider from event so the flanking bonus was there all the time )

Nope not yet, just making a pre-holodeck Raider Buff thread letting ppl know this so-called buff including Flanking on BoP is no real buff especially when Flanking is reduce 1/3 damage vs players who can take more damage than any AI in this game even the bosses. the only real buff i see is 10% ambush damage out of the Battle Cloak putting it at par with the Romulan Battle Cloak.

Why Raider Flanking Nerf'd vs Players?

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