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What is the the recipe for a good fan fic series?

captclazoruscaptclazorus Member Posts: 377 Arc User
edited January 2014 in Ten Forward
As some of you may know, I have an ongoing fan fic story. (Thank you to the 10-20 loyal viewers of mine.) I was wondering: what is that makes a good fan fic? What makes someone want to read it? What is it that makes it really stand out?
Please voice your opinion.
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"Star Trek: Rubicon" Season 1, Season 2 A new era, a new time, a new crew, a new ship, a new mission...
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment because it will never come again."- Jean-Luc Picard
Post edited by captclazorus on

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  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Good characters, and being true to the core of the verse it is set in :)
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Good characters, and being true to the core of the verse it is set in :)

    Hmm, I must be missing something then. At best I think I've had maybe 2 or 3 like mine.
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    1. Not blatantly TRIBBLE up canon.
    2. Making realistic characters. Nobody should be the perfect Superman OP beacon of light and hope. Have a OP sociopath with a sadistic streak, or a beacon of light and hope who is perfectly average.
    3. Kill Mary Sues with fire.
    4. Read the Evil Overlord List. www.eviloverlord.com
    5. Get a beta reader to find plotholes. There WILL be plotholes in your first draft; thus, an outside observer is necessary.
    6. Have fun!
    7. Study well-written books and fan fiction. Here's a good (non-trek) fanfic that exemplifies good fan fiction: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7679074/1/The-Dragon-King-s-Temple
    8. Be a geek. Seriously, Trek is a geeky franchise, and geeky solutions are more fun than traditional ones.
    9. Have fun! I cannot overstress this one.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    catstarsto wrote: »
    Hmm, I must be missing something then. At best I think I've had maybe 2 or 3 like mine.

    Your work comes across as very niche. Certainly not bad, but possibly not to everyone's interest. Equally, try not to take a lack of commentary personally. I posted a ten chapter draft of a Doctor Who manuscript I'd originally been hoping to submit for publication but gave up on. I don't think there were more than five comments in critique or commentary, despite having a high number of views... Same with the LCs... People read, but don't necessarily always comment :)
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    As some of you may know, I have an ongoing fan fic story. (Thank you to the 10-20 loyal viewers of mine.) I was wondering: what is that makes a good fan fic? What makes someone want to read it? What is it that makes it really stand out?
    Please voice your opinion.

    bringing the characters to life in a book or whatever that can be read like a book, how they relate to the storyline. sometimes the best stories are those that can be explained by a character that is central as to how they fit into it, figuring their way through it more humbly then like one of those action hero types, otherwise it comes off as arrogant and a bit much to digest. i mean would you be in a room with a man who is a known hero who sucks upto his own reputation? (having ones head up ones TRIBBLE)

    an example of what i mean.

    a single crew man awakens from his sleep on a ship infested by mutated humans, the ship is out of control but safe from any immediate solar and extra solar activity. he moves around and discovers his first putrid human who was altered into this creature. picking up a nearby pipe climbing through the ship to get to areas that eventually lead him off this ship full of horrors and reprogrammed kamikaze droids and security bots and ships ai that seems powerless to do anything. he has to confront his own fears of being alone, in the dark with monsters that could murder him at any time and no place is safe and far removed from his family at home. he discovers he is not alone and another officer lives only to find out it was a ruse and crazy AI has this crewman do thing that benefits this AI until the crewman destroy's the AI core or so he assumes.

    it's from system shock 2, but leaving the storyline on a knife edge like that with such interaction benefit the two, his own personal experience along with the atmosphere can make it into something really believable as if you are really there.

    if you can translate that type of thinking to trek the one thing you should get right is how the characters behave. i mean you cant give a human voice and thought to a klingon or cardassian because a klingon is obsessed with family and personal honor and cardassians usually lack the same moral compass plus they are very prideful of their own goals, meaning secrets are plentiful.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • shevetshevet Member Posts: 1,667 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Well, the key thing is, it has to be a decent story.

    If you're writing fanfic, you need to worry about staying true to the setting, but that's the least of my worries when I'm writing for this forum.... What matters to me are the storytelling basics, which - for me - come down to three main factors: characterization, plot, and description.

    Characterization - do I have sympathetic characters? By which I don't necessarily mean nice characters, I mean characters whose feelings the readers can understand and identify with - characters whose points of view the readers feel comfortable inhabiting. I forget who it was who defined the Eight Fatal Words when it comes to a story, the words which mean that the reader has given up and the writer has failed: "I don't care what happens to these people!" - and those Eight Fatal Words are what I want to avoid.

    Plot - something's got to be happening to my characters. There has to be a progression of events, it has to involve the characters, ultimately it has to come to some sort of resolution. The people in the story need to be in motion towards some sort of goal. (I find it helps, when I'm writing, to know in advance exactly what that goal is - to have the final page of the story clear in my mind before I even start the first. Not everyone works that way, of course.)

    Description - am I conveying the story clearly enough to the reader? Does the mental image they have of the story match the picture in my head? Am I choosing the right words to get the message across? I think it was Mark Twain who said "The difference between the right word and the almost right word is like the difference between the lightning and the lightning bug." Using the right words... it sounds simple, but I don't for one minute believe I've mastered that.

    So... those are the fundamentals I worry about. Making sure everything is broadly compatible with the Star Trek/STO setting - that's incidental detail, and I don't worry over much about it!
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  • ambassadormolariambassadormolari Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    And on that note, some other points that I think are crucial to writing good fanfiction:

    1. READ A LOT. Whether is novels from the franchise you are fanfiction-writing, or a completely unrelated series, I can't stress enough how important it is that you regularly read stuff you like. I find that reading a variety of different authors gives you differing perspectives on character development, pacing, etc, that are all crucial, and will help you better find your own literary voice as well. For instance, my own writing style, as it currently stands, was heavily influenced by the likes of George R.R. Martin and Dan Abnett, though some of my earlier stuff was more heavily influenced by Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams.

    2. LOOK FOR/ACCEPT CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM-- this, for me, is another really important factor to developing a good writing style. Even if you feel comfortable with your own writing style, always bear in mind that what you consider a good idea in your head may not be recieved the same way by your readers. Always take constructive criticism into consideration, and always look to improve yourself.

    3. AVOID THE FOLLOWING TRAPS-- Look over your work so far and ask yourself if you've done any of the following:
    -Created a Mary Sue (or worse, a race of Mary Sues)
    -Devoted way too much effort to describing settings (what I call 'Tolkien Syndrome'.)
    -Had characters do something that is either grossly out of character, or inexplicably dumb, just to move the plot forwards (ESPECIALLY if they are canon characters)
    -Written something that stretches the boundaries of suspendable disbelief (ie, had a character take several phaser shots to the head and still keep going)
    -Left gaping plot holes, or have left crucial things unexplained.

    Your mileage may vary, of course, though I know that I've been guilty of all of the above sins in the past. In my experience, the hardest parts of writing in general are:
    -Thinking of a plot that sounds good on paper, but doesn't completely fall apart on execution
    -Creating characters who are actually likeable
    -Creating characters who aren't walking tropes/stereotypes (sometimes this is too hard to even try)
    -Devoting effort to effective world-building without impeding the actual story.
    -Avoiding overly-used and cliched narrative devices, similes or phrases, and trying to be inventive in your narration and description.
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  • sander233sander233 Member Posts: 3,992 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    To the above I'll add:

    - Push yourself beyond what you perceive as your limits. Your only limits should be your imagination, and your typing speed.

    - There's no need to start small. I wrote and published a full-length novel before I ever tried to write a short story.

    - Avoid creating walls of text. Cut off paragraphs before they stretch beyond five lines, especially if you're writing dialog. Conversations don't sound like lectures. Use paragraph breaks (lines between paragraphs) and clearly demarcate scene changes.

    - Its okay to disagree with your characters. Its good if your characters disagree with each other. Conflict is good drama.

    - Don't get too attached to your characters. Its a scary galaxy. People die out there. Sometimes your narrative will demand sacrifice, if you put your characters in a situation where it would be implausible for everyone to survive. Sometimes killing someone off will aid the development of other characters.

    - Let bad things happen to good people. That's what happens in real life. Create nice people and beautiful things just to destroy them in fire and horror. Hurt your characters, see how they deal with their pain, and watch them grow through it.

    - Make stuff up. New species, new ships, new planets. Nothing is impossible if you can imagine it.

    - Stay balanced. Don't create a race of telepathic superninjas. Don't create a ship that's indestructible and has limitless firepower. Don't create a rock so big god himself can't move it.

    - Balance also applies to storytelling. Don't be all doom and gloom without cracking a few jokes. Don't make every day happy and wonderful on the most perfect ship in the universe. Comedy and Tragedy are your Yin and Yang.

    [edit to add]
    - Establish spaces that you often return too. Describe worlds you visit often. Or your captain's ready room. Use details that stick in the readers minds. Whenever I set a scene in the ready room on the USS Tiburon, regular readers of my stories automatically picture Rudyard the leopard shark swimming in his aquarium. Let the reader feel like they are there with your characters and not reading an after-action report.
    [/edit]

    - Have an endpoint in mind for the story you're telling. All good things must come to an end.
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    ...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
    - Anne Bredon
  • ambassadormolariambassadormolari Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I would also wholeheartedly recommend National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo) to any budding writers out there. NaNoWriMo is pretty much a challenge, each November, to write a 50,000 word novel in the space of a month. As I'm sure Shevet can attest, NaNoWrimo has a great support network, with hundreds of writers giving one another feedback, support, and ideas on what does and does not work.

    Even if you don't write a full novel, or find yourself unsatisfied with the finished product (both times I've participated, I've written 50,000 word unfinished novels that I ultimately found myself unhappy with), it is nonetheless excellent for the learning process involved, and I think it ultimately helps you become a little better at your craft.
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  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    1. Likeable friendly guy dies in a fantastic fashion

    2. Hero must be in a bad TRIBBLE overcoat

    3. Legitimate looking glass to what the future may be like

    4. Some great threat that no one really knows exists and the hero wither has experience or meets them face to face. Possible time for friendly likable guy to die

    5. Hero is an underdog or part of an underdog organization.

    6. Multiple love intereat that the audiences can't decide if there is past tension. Or if the hero is an oblivious idiot.

    Well...ya those are the usual ingredients I've seen in popular/successful sci fi shows
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    1. Likeable friendly guy dies in a fantastic fashion

    2. Hero must be in a bad TRIBBLE overcoat

    3. Legitimate looking glass to what the future may be like

    4. Some great threat that no one really knows exists and the hero wither has experience or meets them face to face. Possible time for friendly likable guy to die

    5. Hero is an underdog or part of an underdog organization.

    6. Multiple love intereat that the audiences can't decide if there is past tension. Or if the hero is an oblivious idiot.

    Well...ya those are the usual ingredients I've seen in popular/successful sci fi shows

    There's a difference between popular/successful and GOOD. Just so y'all know.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    There's a difference between popular/successful and GOOD. Just so y'all know.

    ...so something good can't be popular/successful?

    Had to do it :P
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • shevetshevet Member Posts: 1,667 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I would also wholeheartedly recommend National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo) to any budding writers out there. NaNoWriMo is pretty much a challenge, each November, to write a 50,000 word novel in the space of a month. As I'm sure Shevet can attest, NaNoWrimo has a great support network, with hundreds of writers giving one another feedback, support, and ideas on what does and does not work.

    Even if you don't write a full novel, or find yourself unsatisfied with the finished product (both times I've participated, I've written 50,000 word unfinished novels that I ultimately found myself unhappy with), it is nonetheless excellent for the learning process involved, and I think it ultimately helps you become a little better at your craft.
    Oh, yes... I've done this every year since 2003, and it's certainly an experience!

    It wouldn't suit everyone's method of working, I suspect... writers like Douglas Adams or Robert Musil, for whom each sentence was a painstakingly crafted labour of hours, would not get on with NaNoWriMo at all. But it's interesting to try - and yes, there is a great deal of useful support and useful thoughts on writing floating around on the NaNo forums. Well worth taking a look at it.
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  • shevetshevet Member Posts: 1,667 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    @dahminus: My experience is that quality and popularity have pretty much nothing to do with each other.

    I mean, to take a couple of obvious examples, Shakespeare and Dickens are both acknowledged giants of English literature, and were wildly popular in their day. But it's easy enough to think of some writers who are really good, but haven't enjoyed much in the way of popularity - Kafka during his lifetime, say, or a personal favourite of mine, David Lindsay. Then there are writers who are hugely popular, but whose work stinks - I suppose it'd be invidious to name examples, but I can certainly think of a couple. And, finally, there is the vast mass who are neither popular nor good... and I can see some of my own collection of tenth-rate science fiction from here, so I could quote you some names from that if you like. :D
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    And, on top of everything else already mentioned - learn the rules of grammar for the language you choose to write in (English, in this forum). If the reader has to continually stop to capitalize the first word of each sentence, or each name used, or to insert commas in sentences that are almost literally begging for them, it's going to take them out of the story, and eventually they'll give up. (I don't know whether this applies to your work, as I have to confess I haven't read it yet - my time is often limited, and I've been following shevet's work and the shared universe that is facing attack by the Good Masters (and my thanks again for letting me borrow them for that one LC), so I haven't gotten to your story yet. I plan to eventually, though.)

    It can help to throw in mildly-humorous background touches, like the line in a recent story where one character is a little confused by the popularity of his cold-drink-mixing machines with the Breen (to the effect that one would have expected a race that lived in such cold conditions to have invented the frozen margarita themselves).

    Also, remember to put paragraph breaks between character speeches, even if they're interrupting each other. Character viewpoint tends to run together otherwise, leaving the reader to piece out who's saying what.

    My particular writing style is heavily influenced by Heinlein, Niven, and Spider Robinson (although the I Write Like site keeps claiming I write like Clarke), so if you don't like their writing, take my advice with a grain of salt (preferably accompanied by a large margarita).
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    ...so something good can't be popular/successful?

    Had to do it :P

    No, but something popular/successful is not necessarily good. Look at Jersey Shore. That thing is horribleness incarnate, yet wildly successful.

    OTOH, things can be good, yet unpopular. When was the last time anyone on here watched "North by Northwest" or "Casablanca"? Or how about Nabokov's "The Tragedy of Mr. Morn"? When was the last time any of us saw that performed, read it, or even heard of it? (in my case, about six months ago I saw a live reading. I could see its quality, but also why it has never been successful)

    Things can also be both good and popular. DS9, for instance.

    I'm just noting that being good is not the same as being popular/successful.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    No, but something popular/successful is not necessarily good. Look at Jersey Shore. That thing is horribleness incarnate, yet wildly successful.

    OTOH, things can be good, yet unpopular. When was the last time anyone on here watched "North by Northwest" or "Casablanca"? Or how about Nabokov's "The Tragedy of Mr. Morn"? When was the last time any of us saw that performed, read it, or even heard of it? (in my case, about six months ago I saw a live reading. I could see its quality, but also why it has never been successful)

    Things can also be both good and popular. DS9, for instance.

    I'm just noting that being good is not the same as being popular/successful.

    My wife and I went to a theatre showing of it about three months ago... It was for some anniversary of the theatre being open, and everyone wore period-specific clothes :cool:
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    That the story is believable within the confines of its literary setting. Most of the other things that various people have mentioned make it a good story, but to be good fanfiction it requires the reader to believe that they could have actually seen this happen in the official works.

    New Frontier could be classified as good fanfiction. There is no need for fanfiction to exactly follow the exploits of established main characters. It is set in the same universe, develops some of the minor characters seen in the shows, and has interesting places, characters, and stories.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    That the story is believable within the confines of its literary setting. Most of the other things that various people have mentioned make it a good story, but to be good fanfiction it requires the reader to believe that they could have actually seen this happen in the official works.

    New Frontier could be classified as good fanfiction. There is no need for fanfiction to exactly follow the exploits of established main characters. It is set in the same universe, develops some of the minor characters seen in the shows, and has interesting places, characters, and stories.

    I agree absolutely. On a personal level, I seldom read fanfiction which is solely using established characters, as all too often, they are just shallow slash/shipping exercises by a writer who is desperate to make established characters behave the way they want them to behave. I much prefer the works like Shevet's, and Patrick and Sander which are merely set in the verse, occasionally feature an established character in passing cameo, but for the main, focus on other characters, as they are less focussed on 'Picard flipped Beverly over, whispering "Jack need never know..."' but in telling good stories :cool:
  • superhombre777superhombre777 Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Additionally, don't post stuff to be popular or get a lot of attention. (This isn't Facebook.) Write because you enjoy it, and take whatever responses you get. Sometimes you might only get unpleasant feedback, but that's ok.

    Please don't post something that you know is terrible or incomplete with a promise to fix it later because you are short on time.

    In his book On Writing, Stephen King presents the rule that the second draft should be 10% shorter than the first draft. I have noticed that it's usually pretty easy to take 10% off of my first drafts without causing any problems. Same with my thread posts - "usually pretty easy" is a lame phrase!
    I would also wholeheartedly recommend National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo) to any budding writers out there.

    I didn't come close to finishing this year...maybe next year.
  • ironphoenix113ironphoenix113 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Pretty much what everyone else said here, but once again, my stories really focus first on the characters, as, without interesting characters, you story ends up simply being a bore. Write some flaws into your main character; don't make them a complete white knight. For instance: Admiral Bryan Mitchel Valot, the main character for my stories, is somewhat of a loose cannon compared to other Starfleet Admirals, and he's willing to go to lengths that others would consider to be too extreme. As a result I like to think he's more interesting to read about simply because he's not what you'd expect a Starfleet Admiral to be.

    Second fiddle to characters would be making sure to work within established lore for your genre. Here, you have a little (emphasis on little) wiggle room. Be careful: too much wiggling, and you end up simply ripping established canon to shreds. I personally check Memory Alpha (among other sources) when writing if I'm unsure about whether something would really be plausible in the ST universe, and I like to think that has made m writing at least marginally better.
    Vice Admiral Bryan Mitchel Valot
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