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Ship Console Locking (IDEA THREAD)

abyssinainabyssinain Member Posts: 98 Arc User
Ill just open with this idea outright, if you find something wrong or tweak-able, please feel free to post and discuss it, by no means is this idea something final. Anyways, here it is:

WARNING: THIS IS IN-DEPTH, IVE INCLUDED MANY BALANCING FACTORS AND TRIED TO KEEP IT USEFUL WHILE FITTING WITH THE GAME. AS A SYMPTOM, THIS IS A LONG DETAILED LIST. THIS LIST WILL ALSO PROBABLY BE EDITED AND CHANGE ALOT.

Console Locking
('CLing')('CLing' it to the ship)

Basically what I am proposing is for ships to have an extra console slot (universal, probably only to be one no matter the ship, for balancing, this could change though), however this slot will be a part of nearly every ship in the game. The reasoning behind this idea spawned after observing that set-ups I'd love to make work simply wouldn't on many c-store ships and lockbox ships, why? Because, despite this ship ability being usually ship specific, it takes up a console slot!

Now obviously just throwing a universal slot on every ship haphazardly would be a bad idea, so I thought about maybe balancing this a bit, and that's when the idea about Console Locking came to me.

Possible Idea Pros:
  • Ability to slot a console on a ship without actually using a console slot.
  • Ability to have a lockbox/zen-store ship's iconic ability without use of a console slot.
  • Interchangeable to a point, in case you don't actually want that ship's original ability.
  • Will provide a boost of some type to the console's overall stats or effectiveness, perhaps add an entirely new stat, as it is now closely tied in with the ships systems, sacrificing quick and easy interchangeability.
  • If your ship isn't a lockbox/zen-store ship, no problem, this just means you have a free lock slot by default to do what you want with, no pesky specialty console to unlock!
  • This will allow any ship to put a little more 'oomph' into an area they find lacking (A cruiser locking in a damage console for some more damage capability to top his tanking), or allow a ship to specialize even further in their field and become incredibly deadly.
  • Will deepen the game's PvE and PvP further, requiring more thought on builds now that you can slot an extra console and boost its effectiveness past normal.

Possible Idea Cons: (AKA The Balancing and the Bad)
  • Lockbox/Zen ships will have their console locked in by default, forcing you to remove it if you don't want it.
  • Since the locked console is so deeply integrated with your ship's systems, you'll need pay a hefty price to have it removed in Energy Credits, as this is the easiest currency to acquire in the game and can be easily obtained at nearly any level.
  • The boost will not work on special lockbox/zen-store ship consoles.
  • Unlocking the console from your ship will take a bit of time, maybe an hour?
  • This will prevent players from completely switching to another maximized ship setup on the same toon instantly, only if they want to transfer the locked console though.

Other
  • Though this idea is largely based around z-store/lockbox ships, ALL ships captain and higher will be able to use this feature.
  • For people currently flying the ships that will receive the most change (lockbox/zen-ships), they will just receive the new lock slot but their specialty console will not be forced into it.
  • As this change will likely confuse many people (wtf is tihs new box on my ship halp), after an update containing this feature rolls out, introduce the player with an easy to read simplistic description of what it is, what it does, and how to use it.

Edits
  • Removed the class/console specific bonuses.
  • Removed debuff if you unlock lockbox/c-store ship consoles, they simply will not be affected by the bonus.
  • Universal consoles from lobi/reputation/etc will now receive a full bonus like all the other consoles.
  • Reduced console unlock timer to 1h, and made it payable via energy credits, the easiest currency to obtain in the game(im reluctant to make it the more common choice, dilithium, because there are enough sinks already).
  • Removed bundle console set buff, as they are no longer nerfed by default.

Again this isn't some final set in stone deal, if you see something wrong please tell me, and don't yell please!
Does this ruin your setup? Does this make the game less fun? Does it make something I overlooked overpowered/underpowered? Does this sound fun to you? I want to know!
Post edited by abyssinain on

Comments

  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    From what I have understood from your post. I don't think this would be a great idea. I have and love my Nebula, but from the sounds of your post, if I didn't use the Tachyon Console that came with it, I would not only have to pay (again) to remove it and suffer a de-buff for the privilege.

    I also think that you've massively over complicated the idea of universal consoles and making the idea of consoles being universal defunct. i.e My Tachyon Detection Grid has to go in a science slot or the Point Defense has to go in a tactical slot.

    The nebula is a good example here as it is designed to play in part like a cruiser and in part like a science ship. It's a jack of all trades ship both in canon and in game, and so by forcing it into a particular role you would ruin immersion and gameplay. I also don't think that by pigeon holing ships in terms of powers or roles is a good idea in terms of game fun.

    As you've already mentioned, you would effectively Gimp Odyssey and Vesta builds particularly if people have paid a small fortune for the three packs. You would also be forcing them to pay again in order to use the consoles from these ships on another ship of the same type. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

    Another problem with it is that some ships are quite overpowered as they are, and so by giving them an added buff to use a console that came with the ship to begin with, you would throw balance further out of the window. It also makes the game less fun because some end game players like to experiment with consoles from different ships and change their builds regularly in order to keep the game interesting and you would effectively be stopping this.

    I would say that perhaps instead of having these abilities linked to consoles, perhaps have them inherent in the ship like subsystem targeting for example and working in a similar fashion. Paricularly as a lot of these consoles can only be used on specific ships anyway. However this provides it's own balancing issues.

    In short; I don't think you're idea would work. Sorry.
  • abyssinainabyssinain Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tc10b wrote: »
    From what I have understood from your post. I don't think this would be a great idea. I have and love my Nebula, but from the sounds of your post, if I didn't use the Tachyon Console that came with it, I would not only have to pay (again) to remove it and suffer a de-buff for the privilege. Nerfed down to a currency that should be acceptable and still maintain the necessary nerf of having it harder to remove locked consoles, debuff however was removed.

    I also think that you've massively over complicated the idea of universal consoles and making the idea of consoles being universal defunct. i.e My Tachyon Detection Grid has to go in a science slot or the Point Defense has to go in a tactical slot. You read wrong, I meant tactical consoles (like dmg consoles) would be buffed in an escort, graviton gen would be buffed in a science ship, however this was removed regardless.

    The nebula is a good example here as it is designed to play in part like a cruiser and in part like a science ship. It's a jack of all trades ship both in canon and in game, and so by forcing it into a particular role you would ruin immersion and gameplay. I also don't think that by pigeon holing ships in terms of powers or roles is a good idea in terms of game fun. Solved

    As you've already mentioned, you would effectively Gimp Odyssey and Vesta builds particularly if people have paid a small fortune for the three packs. You would also be forcing them to pay again in order to use the consoles from these ships on another ship of the same type. Correct me if I'm wrong there. Solved, for the most part, yeah you'll still pay to switch those consoles but it shouldn't be an issue.

    Another problem with it is that some ships are quite overpowered as they are, and so by giving them an added buff to use a console that came with the ship to begin with, you would throw balance further out of the window. They were never buffed, if anything they were debuffed, but I removed the debuff regardless.

    It also makes the game less fun because some end game players like to experiment with consoles from different ships and change their builds regularly in order to keep the game interesting and you would effectively be stopping this. Nerfed the timer down to an hour, its necessary to at least take some time to somewhat counterbalance the console stat buff from locking it in, I wouldn't be killing experimenting, this is one console slot were talking about here.

    I would say that perhaps instead of having these abilities linked to consoles, perhaps have them inherent in the ship like subsystem targeting for example and working in a similar fashion. Paricularly as a lot of these consoles can only be used on specific ships anyway. However this provides it's own balancing issues. That would require editing each individual ship to work with their console and would be permanent, which would likely kill the experimenting and the flexibility you mentioned earlier.

    In short; I don't think you're idea would work. Sorry.

    Thank you for the feedback, this is exactly what I'm looking for, it helped me reconsider facts with a perspective that wasn't mine.

    I made several edits to fall more in line with your suggestions, but please note that if this is ever going to be realistically added into the game, it'll probably have to be of at least some cost to the player, and some gain to Cryptic.

    Look to the new Edit section of the list to see what I removed/changed.

    Also for the colors:

    Red - Solved/Fixed
    Yellow - Compromise, I didn't get rid of/fix something completely but met you half-way.
    Green - That probably wouldn't work, sorry.
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,291 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    So is this like a special universal console slot, that you can put ANY type of console into? Except it uses like an assignment-type interface where it costs time and resources to plug a console in? And every ship gets one?

    I would be all for that. It's a great idea.

    I would stick my console - tactical - automated defense turret in there. I love the thing and want to use it so bad, but I just can't sacrifice any one of my tac consoles. If I do, my DPS drops too much.
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It's a good idea, but imbalanced for one reason only. Those ships have quite good abilities that can be very powerful, but they have to pay a console slot to use them. I mean can you imagine a Defiant-R that could cloak without having to sacrifice a console slot? Or a Vor'kang that can use iso charge without having to sacrifice a slot? How about an Armitage with torp point defense and still full consoles? Or the real mother loads: Odyssey/Bortasqu with full set bonus and still have 10 consoles (an idea I actually support if they ever made true fleet versions of that ship). I could go on and on with ships that have very powerful abilities that they need to sacrifice to use.

    These ability consoles are set as consoles to keep the balance. They may not be worth the console slot they take up, which is why you can remove them, but if you had them without having to sacrifice something? That would make a lot of ships far more powerful than intended. And technically you do get that with the fleet version of a lot of ships, since they get a 10th console slot, so you can have your 9 consoles + ability console (in addition to added hull and shields).

    It's a good idea, but I would only support it for a very VERY limited number of ships. And that would be ships that don't have a fleet version. Give them a fleet version with this feature, and then that's that.

    Btw, if you look through the fed shipyards, you will see an idea similar to this one posted up by myself involving the Oddy and Bort.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • abyssinainabyssinain Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It's a good idea, but imbalanced for one reason only. Those ships have quite good abilities that can be very powerful, but they have to pay a console slot to use them. I mean can you imagine a Defiant-R that could cloak without having to sacrifice a console slot? Or a Vor'kang that can use iso charge without having to sacrifice a slot? How about an Armitage with torp point defense and still full consoles? Or the real mother loads: Odyssey/Bortasqu with full set bonus and still have 10 consoles (an idea I actually support if they ever made true fleet versions of that ship). I could go on and on with ships that have very powerful abilities that they need to sacrifice to use.

    These ability consoles are set as consoles to keep the balance. They may not be worth the console slot they take up, which is why you can remove them, but if you had them without having to sacrifice something? That would make a lot of ships far more powerful than intended. And technically you do get that with the fleet version of a lot of ships, since they get a 10th console slot, so you can have your 9 consoles + ability console (in addition to added hull and shields).

    It's a good idea, but I would only support it for a very VERY limited number of ships. And that would be ships that don't have a fleet version. Give them a fleet version with this feature, and then that's that.

    Btw, if you look through the fed shipyards, you will see an idea similar to this one posted up by myself involving the Oddy and Bort.

    You have a good point, but realize that since every ship would have it, this would balance itself out.

    Yes a defiant can cloak and still have full console coverage, but so will his friends, and his opponent, and his friends, and so on.

    Basically, its not overpowered if everyone can be equally overpowered with minimal effort (insert a console in a slot), lol.

    Also, this is actually the reason why I implemented the console stat buff on anything that isn't specialty consoles, to combat that very problem. Sure you can have your defiant cloak, but what if you wanted a buffed Mk XII anti-proton mag regulator instead?

    Also, bundle ships will still only have 1 slot, not 3 for their entire set.
  • zmarine123zmarine123 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I actually really like this idea, adding it to the game would open a wide selection of new ship build possibilities. You have my support.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,217 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    1. If it can take any console, it's a console slot. Having one more doesn't change the fact that putting your special console there will give up a slot you could use on a performance booster.
    2. On the other hand, if it can only take a universal console, it would remove the trade-off involved in using universal consoles.

    In other words, your idea is just "lets add +1 console slot on all ships."

    In addition:
    -It's disproportionate to have one piece of equipment have a cost and/or time delay to equip, when everything else is plug-and-play.
    -If I were to have one system that was more difficult to remove/replace than others, it would have to be the ship's engines, not some random console.
    -There is no rational reason why making something harder to remove would improve its performance.
    -Adding a performance bonus would be a balancing nightmare. Most likely the devs would have to manually create and test "enhanced" versions of every console in the game.
  • abyssinainabyssinain Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    warpangel wrote: »
    1. If it can take any console, it's a console slot. Having one more doesn't change the fact that putting your special console there will give up a slot you could use on a performance booster.
    2. On the other hand, if it can only take a universal console, it would remove the trade-off involved in using universal consoles.

    In other words, your idea is just "lets add +1 console slot on all ships."
    It really isn't, read my post more carefully and you'll see there are benefits to NOT slotting universals, but regular consoles, which would balance it out, so obviously it can take all console types.
    I also attempted to make it even deeper but it was cut because someone disliked it.


    In addition:
    -It's disproportionate to have one piece of equipment have a cost and/or time delay to equip, when everything else is plug-and-play.
    Its necessary considering the bonuses.
    -If I were to have one system that was more difficult to remove/replace than others, it would have to be the ship's engines, not some random console.
    Again, its necessary, do you have a better alternative?
    -There is no rational reason why making something harder to remove would improve its performance.
    You're missing the big picture, its harder to remove because its DEEPLY INTEGRATED INTO THE SHIPS SYSTEMS, hence the bonus, AND the removal difficulty.
    -Adding a performance bonus would be a balancing nightmare. Most likely the devs would have to manually create and test "enhanced" versions of every console in the game.
    Possibly, but if the devs ran away from a potentially great idea to further develop the game simply because 'it would take time :(' then I don't know why they're getting paid in the first place.

    I responded, check quote.
  • quiscustodietquiscustodiet Member Posts: 350
    edited December 2012
    Overcomplicated yet underthought.

    So:
    - All Ships get +1 Universal slot.
    - That slot gives an undefined boost to regular consoles but not "special" ones.
    - Removing a Console from that slot costs EC.

    Problem is: without the boost, the slot is just a free slot for all Ships (not necessarily a bad thing, but one would need to examine the possibilities thoroughly); with the boost, it defeats its own purpose:

    Let's take a Defiant-R:
    Eng Consoles: Borg, Neutronium*2.
    Sci Consoles: Field Gen*2
    Tac Consoles: Phaser Relay*4
    Universal Console: Cloak

    What's stopping me from switching it to:
    Eng Consoles: Borg, Neutronium*2.
    Sci Consoles: Cloak, Field Gen
    Tac Consoles: Phaser Relay*4
    Universal Console: Field Gen+Boost
    Result? Same Cloaking abilities, but the latter setup has more Shields->strictly superior->it makes no sense to slot z-store Consoles in the Universal slot.
    Since this creature is immune to subtility and too cowardly to answer PMs, let's take the direct approach: pwebranflakes: you're a moron and I'd really rather be spared your "affections".
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