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rendiarendia Member Posts: 8 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Federation Discussion
Okay, so I just started playing not that long ago and I made a tactical captain, not realizing at the time that engineer is the "tank" class.

Tanking is what I do in mmos and I feel like I made a mistake. Although I have heard that a tact cptn can tank just fine, I have also heard that they aren't effective tanks as well.

My question is can I tank or should I just go dps?
Post edited by rendia on

Comments

  • jkstocbrjkstocbr Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    From a space perspective ...

    A tac captain can tank pretty well in a Cruiser with the right Boff and console setup. You just lack some of the Capitan skills that an engineer would have. What you loose, you gain in other skills that help with damage. Some players have said they tac/Escort and eng/cruiser is too one side and they enjoy tac/cruiser or eng/escort more. Depends on you plays style in the end.

    Try an engineer alt and see if you enjoy it.
  • quiscustodietquiscustodiet Member Posts: 350
    edited December 2012
    You'll lose survivability and gain damage, as you probably expect.
    Whether that's fine with you or not is a question only yourself can answer.

    Depending on your level, you can consider re-making your char. Nothing valuable comes early.
    Or you can make an alt, you have at least 2 slots, afterall.
    Since this creature is immune to subtility and too cowardly to answer PMs, let's take the direct approach: pwebranflakes: you're a moron and I'd really rather be spared your "affections".
  • rendiarendia Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    jkstocbr wrote: »
    From a space perspective ...

    A tac captain can tank pretty well in a Cruiser with the right Boff and console setup. You just lack some of the Capitan skills that an engineer would have. What you loose, you gain in other skills that help with damage. Some players have said they tac/Escort and eng/cruiser is too one side and they enjoy tac/cruiser or eng/escort more. Depends on you plays style in the end.

    Try an engineer alt and see if you enjoy it.

    I enjoy my tact/cruiser so far. But I am only 27 and I haven't really done any group stuff much. As for an although, I am f2p, so no real extra slot other than a Klingon ATM. I guess I could try it, but I'd rather play fed.

    Then what should I gear for tanking? I mean what type of weapons and such.

    I mean for space, ground I wouldn't mind dpsing as I have noticed I am too squishy for ground combat tanking.
  • theorictheoric Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Ok I'm going to assume, that this is a legitimate post,
    not a troll.

    Sto is a very different game, there isn't any tanks, like in traditional MMOs.
    But as a general rule of thumb, if there had to be tanks Engineers are the best survivability wise. Tac are dps related, sci is shield heals and crowd control.

    But Stos mechanic is different, as any captain can fly any ship.
    A Tac can fly a cruiser or even a carrier just won't be as tough as an engineer doing it, just like a sci can fly an escort but arguably won't do as much dps as the Tac.
  • rendiarendia Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    You'll lose survivability and gain damage, as you probably expect.
    Whether that's fine with you or not is a question only yourself can answer.

    Depending on your level, you can consider re-making your char. Nothing valuable comes early.
    Or you can make an alt, you have at least 2 slots, afterall.

    How so? Ships and the consoles seem to be the primary thing for you role. What do engi get that tact doesn't that is make or break?
  • rendiarendia Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    theoric wrote: »
    Ok I'm going to assume, that this is a legitimate post,
    not a troll.

    Sto is a very different game, there isn't any tanks, like in traditional MMOs.
    But as a general rule of thumb, if there had to be tanks Engineers are the best survivability wise. Tac are dps related, sci is shield heals and crowd control.

    But Stos mechanic is different, as any captain can fly any ship.
    A Tac can fly a cruiser or even a carrier just won't be as tough as an engineer doing it, just like a sci can fly an escort but arguably won't do as much dps as the Tac.

    No, not a troll. Just new to the game is all. Still learning how it all works.

    As to the rest of your post, how then does group space combat work? Just coordinate for focus fire? Who then takes the other ships to keep them from smashing on the escorts as they are weaker in the survivability dep?
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    rendia wrote: »
    No, not a troll. Just new to the game is all. Still learning how it all works.

    As to the rest of your post, how then does group space combat work? Just coordinate for focus fire? Who then takes the other ships to keep them from smashing on the escorts as they are weaker in the survivability dep?

    It really depends on who you're playing with and the scenario, but group space combat in STO isn't about finding a role and sticking to it (because the class differences are fairly diluted) but making the most of whatever team composition you find yourself in, particularly the public STFs.

    The most important thing about any given group action is knowing how best to use YOUR ship, and then playing to the most effective strategy for a given mission.

    For example, it's more important in Infected Space Elite to stick to the "10% rule" and to keep tabs on the Nanite Spheres than it is for a Cruiser to insist on tanking or an SV to insist on healing or whatever.

    STO space combat in STFs is heavily biased towards DPS, so everyone is expected to contribute to killing everything as quickly as possible (and of course sticking to the mission plan). Secondary roles like tanking and healing are, well, secondary, though no one will be mad at you for throwing on the occasional heal or assist.

    Things are slightly different in Fleet Actions like No Win Scenario and Starbase defense, which bring in squishy civilian targets to protect and heal. Cruisers and other "support" ships can come into their own in those circumstances, where Escorts and Glass Cannons might not survive the fray long enough to contribute.

    Ground Combat and missions are a different story, since the class differences are much more well-defined and the MMO trinity is largely in effect.
  • rendiarendia Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It really depends on who you're playing with and the scenario, but group space combat in STO isn't about finding a role and sticking to it (because the class differences are fairly diluted) but making the most of whatever team composition you find yourself in, particularly the public STFs.

    The most important thing about any given group action is knowing how best to use YOUR ship, and then playing to the most effective strategy for a given mission.

    For example, it's more important in Infected Space Elite to stick to the "10% rule" and to keep tabs on the Nanite Spheres than it is for a Cruiser to insist on tanking or an SV to insist on healing or whatever.

    STO space combat in STFs is heavily biased towards DPS, so everyone is expected to contribute to killing everything as quickly as possible (and of course sticking to the mission plan). Secondary roles like tanking and healing are, well, secondary, though no one will be mad at you for throwing on the occasional heal or assist.

    Things are slightly different in Fleet Actions like No Win Scenario and Starbase defense, which bring in squishy civilian targets to protect and heal. Cruisers and other "support" ships can come into their own in those circumstances, where Escorts and Glass Cannons might not survive the fray long enough to contribute.

    Ground Combat and missions are a different story, since the class differences are much more well-defined and the MMO trinity is largely in effect.

    So what you are basically saying is that space combat is more about everyone doing their own thing while sticking to mission parameters, helping each other as needed?
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    rendia wrote: »
    So what you are basically saying is that space combat is more about everyone doing their own thing while sticking to mission parameters, helping each other as needed?

    Coming from an Engi cruiser captain, yes. For the most part, tanks are not required in this game. Most ships can do exactly what is needed tanking wise, and dedicated pure tanks are a waste of a ship, since end-game content is almost exclusively a DPS race.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • dudebguydudebguy Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    rendia wrote: »
    So what you are basically saying is that space combat is more about everyone doing their own thing while sticking to mission parameters, helping each other as needed?

    Yes. Everyone will get shot at, everyone will be expected to contribute with the blowing up enemy ships, everyone will be expected to run a blockade on a stream of probes, everyone will be expected to heal themselves first, and maybe throw some heals on other people if cooldowns allow.

    What changes between classes/ships is how you handle the situation. A cruiser will stand it's ground and take a pounding while dishing average, but constant damage, a science ship will drain, debuff and immobilize everything while crushing them with kinetic damage and supporting itself and it's allies with hazard emitters and transfer shield strength, an escort will shred everything up with cannons and try to get the **** away before they can retaliate.

    Of course, your mileage may vary, it is possible to build a tanky escort, or a damagy cruiser, the above is just a rule of thumb.
    Ground Combat and missions are a different story, since the class differences are much more well-defined and the MMO trinity is largely in effect.

    Not really true, the above is also true for ground combat.
  • tangolighttangolight Member Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    rendia wrote: »
    So what you are basically saying is that space combat is more about everyone doing their own thing while sticking to mission parameters, helping each other as needed?

    In the easier encounters, that typically is the easiest.

    In harder events, or PVP, more teamwork becomes important, such as using skills to extend shields around another ship, or sending over engineering teams to help out - and anyone can take these skills and use them, so though class / ships will be able to use more effective versions of them.

    Even if an escort is taking fire, a good captain can stay alive for a while, and if it's too much, they should probably move out of range and let the enemy beat on someone tougher (ie: the 'tank', though it's not really tanking like in other MMOs).

    Working together in a group with more well defined roles is particularly evident with high level PVP groups, where even focus firing on an escort may not bring it down, with others healing them, science vessels disrupting you with abilities, and so on.

    Unless you play on elite difficulty, or coordinated PVP though, you can do fine doing whatever you want, with whatever class or ship you prefer. The normal difficulty level PVE isn't too strenuous a challenge, so you can just play what you think you'd have the most fun with. Sure, an engineer/cruiser has more survivability potential than a tactical/cruiser, but that difference will almost never make enough of a difference in standard PVE. As well, individual skill, abilities used, and gear also make a big difference. I've blown up quite a few engineer/cruisers in PVP like they were made out of paper, while found some engineer/escort and tac/cruisers impossible for me to defeat 1 on 1.
  • rendiarendia Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Coming from an Engi cruiser captain, yes. For the most part, tanks are not required in this game. Most ships can do exactly what is needed tanking wise, and dedicated pure tanks are a waste of a ship, since end-game content is almost exclusively a DPS race.

    I haven't tried an escort yet but I really enjoy my cruiser so far. Maybe I'll grab an escort for my captain rank ship to try it out. Maybe I will enjoy it.

    Any weapon suggestions for an escort? Dual cannons I am sure, but turrets on the aft or something else? What about energy type? I am using plasma ATM.
  • tangolighttangolight Member Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Ground Combat and missions are a different story, since the class differences are much more well-defined and the MMO trinity is largely in effect.

    Oddly, the only time I can think of that requires a true 'tank' in ground is for the boss on Cure ground, which I do as a Science officer.

    And technically, I think the tank would be a tactical officer, since they're the ones with the Draw Fire ability, Overwatch, and other such skills.
    rendia wrote: »
    I haven't tried an escort yet but I really enjoy my cruiser so far. Maybe I'll grab an escort for my captain rank ship to try it out. Maybe I will enjoy it.

    Any weapon suggestions for an escort? Dual cannons I am sure, but turrets on the aft or something else? What about energy type? I am using plasma ATM.

    Just stick with what you enjoy. At higher levels for an escort, you want Dual Heavy Cannons primarily. At lower levels, I find dual cannons better just because you have fewer weapon slots and the rate of fire with just a couple weapons, and limited tactical bridge officer abilities mean DHCs are too slow without skills to back them up.

    And unless you plan on doing PVP, just choose the weapon type you like the most. None of the weapon types have an overwhelming advantage over any other, though they all behave a little differently.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The most common escort setup is dual heavy cannons and maybe a single torpedo or dual-beam fore, turrets aft. Weapon type is whatever you have and like so long as all the same kind (plasma or phaser or whatever). The only catch with plasma is that if you ever PVP, most of the endgame shields are anti-borg gear and so get a resist against plasma, and so you'll lose 20% damage right there (though with the new Romulan stuff that may change eventually). Works just fine for everything else though.

    Also a trick you can do at Level 40 / Rear Admiral (which is your last, don't get one at 50), is spend your free upgrade token on an escort (Patrol Escort is a really good choice), and then buy a cruiser and science ship off the Exchange by buying the Mirror Universe ships for really cheap (like 100 grand, which is nothing by endgame). You'll then have access to all three ship types without having to reroll or spend any zen or dilithium, and be able to try them all out.
  • rendiarendia Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tangolight wrote: »
    Oddly, the only time I can think of that requires a true 'tank' in ground is for the boss on Cure ground, which I do as a Science officer.

    And technically, I think the tank would be a tactical officer, since they're the ones with the Draw Fire ability, Overwatch, and other such skills.



    Just stick with what you enjoy. At higher levels for an escort, you want Dual Heavy Cannons primarily. At lower levels, I find dual cannons better just because you have fewer weapon slots and the rate of fire with just a couple weapons, and limited tactical bridge officer abilities mean DHCs are too slow without skills to back them up.

    And unless you plan on doing PVP, just choose the weapon type you like the most. None of the weapon types have an overwhelming advantage over any other, though they all behave a little differently.

    So if I stay with cruisers what type of weapons should I run? I have 2 plasma beam arrays and hargh'peng on fore and 3 plasma turrets on aft. Seems to be working well, but if there is a better option I'd go with it.
  • tangolighttangolight Member Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    rendia wrote: »
    So if I stay with cruisers what type of weapons should I run? I have 2 plasma beam arrays and hargh'peng on fore and 3 plasma turrets on aft. Seems to be working well, but if there is a better option I'd go with it.

    Whatever works for you and you're happy with is good, as long as you're not having trouble completing missions, unless you're just seeking to get the best performance you can.

    That said, conventionally, cruisers will equip up to 3 beam arrays fore, and 3 beam arrays aft (any more than 6 beam arrays total and the energy drain from the weapons will actually reduce your damage), and optionally a torpedo launcher fore and/or aft. The common tactic here is to go for broadside barrages with your beam arrays. Since beam arrays have a 250 degree arc, if you keep the enemy ship to the side of your ship, both your fore and rear beam arrays will be able to hit it at once, which is more damage than beam arrays and turrets will give you.
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    dudebguy wrote: »

    Not really true, the above is also true for ground combat.
    Oddly, the only time I can think of that requires a true 'tank' in ground is for the boss on Cure ground, which I do as a Science officer.

    And technically, I think the tank would be a tactical officer, since they're the ones with the Draw Fire ability, Overwatch, and other such skills.

    Point taken, though what I meant to say is that in Ground Combat individual classes are more strictly defined in terms of what they can do because of Kit restrictions. Barring special equipment or devices, the only guy who will ever be able to use Stasis Field, Tachyon Harmonic, or Medical Tricorder will be a Sci officer, and the only guy who will be able to use mine barrier is the Engi, and the only guy with draw fire or whatever is the Tac guy.

    True, most players and team compositions will be able to cope with any given situation, but the strategies they'll end up using are more defined by their class.

    Compare this to space combat. Any Engi can basically fly a cannon escort with the right boffs and gear, and any Tac can jump into a Beam Boat cruiser or a hardcore sci-carrier. Anyone can do anything, and the unique class-based powers (like Nadion Inversion Attack Pattern Alpha, or Dampening Field) are more like icing on the cake to tailor a playstyle. An engi in a cannon escort won't push out the same DPS numbers as a Tac in the same setup, but will be tougher and tankier when the time comes to absorb some hits, and so on.
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