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RCS Accelerator consoles need an overhaul.

starboardnacellestarboardnacelle Member Posts: 67 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
The RCS Accelerator calculates its buff by the base turn rate of the vessel you're flying. This means that, by nature, RCS Accelerator consoles benefit Cruisers the least out of every ship type. This seems a little unfair, seeing as they're the ones that need them most.

______________________________


[Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
+35% base flight turn rate.

Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 6 degrees per second
Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 15 degrees per second

With the console applied:

Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 8.1 degrees per second
Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 20.25 degrees per second

______________________________


I propose that we change the console to give flat boosts in degrees per second, but remove its ability to stack. This would give Cruisers a much-needed edge without completely skewing balance. The modified console would be:

______________________________


[Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
+5 degrees flight turn rate.

Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 6 degrees per second
Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 15 degrees per second

With the console applied:

Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 11 degrees per second
Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 20 degrees per second
Post edited by starboardnacelle on

Comments

  • Options
    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    This is going to quickly turn into a cruiser vs escort thread, so I will just tell you straight out. They designed them this way, and as far as the devs are concerned, it's working as intended. I agree, it should be a flat value, but even so, it's not going to happen. Besides, 5 is too high. mk XII purple can be 5, I won't argue that, but mk XI blue? That would be more like 3.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • Options
    starboardnacellestarboardnacelle Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    hereticknight085 wrote: »
    This is going to quickly turn into a cruiser vs escort thread, so I will just tell you straight out. They designed them this way, and as far as the devs are concerned, it's working as intended. I agree, it should be a flat value, but even so, it's not going to happen. Besides, 5 is too high. mk XII purple can be 5, I won't argue that, but mk XI blue? That would be more like 3.

    So, between a white Mark XIII and a white Mark XV, there's a difference of two degrees. Where does that leave the basic white Mark V you can get starting at Commander? Here's what I planned:

    ______________________________


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk V]
    +3 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VI]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk V]
    +3.25 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VI]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk V]
    +3.5 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VIII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VI]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk V]
    +3.75 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk IX]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VIII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VI]
    +4 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk X]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk IX]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VIII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VII]
    +4.25 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk X]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk IX]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk VIII]
    +4.5 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk X]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk IX]
    +4.75 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XIII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk X]
    +5 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XIV]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XIII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    +5.25 degrees flight turn rate.


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XV]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XIV]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XIII]
    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XII]
    +5.5 degrees flight turn rate.
  • Options
    greyrydergreyryder Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    While I agree that the current system least benefits the ships that need them the most, I am totally against the idea of them not stacking. I'm finally getting the turn rate of my assault cruiser refit up where I want it. You're gonna nerf it, again. If, I want to waste a couple of engineering console slots, so I can fly my cruiser like an escort, that's my (admittedly questionable) choice.
  • Options
    starboardnacellestarboardnacelle Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    greyryder wrote: »
    While I agree that the current system least benefits the ships that need them the most, I am totally against the idea of them not stacking. I'm finally getting the turn rate of my assault cruiser refit up where I want it. You're gonna nerf it, again. If, I want to waste a couple of engineering console slots, so I can fly my cruiser like an escort, that's my (admittedly questionable) choice.

    Actually, you'd be getting more out of one RCS Accelerator with the above flat bonus than you are with two right now.

    ______________________________


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    +35% base turn rate.

    Assault Cruiser Refit base turn rate: 7 degrees per second

    With two consoles applied, assuming no diminishing returns:

    Assault Cruiser Refit base turn rate: 11.9 degrees per second

    ______________________________


    Now, let's assume the rare Mark XI gets the five-degree flat bonus, but can't stack. Here's what your new numbers would look like:

    ______________________________


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    +5 degrees base turn rate.

    Assault Cruiser Refit base turn rate: 7 degrees per second

    With the console applied:

    Assault Cruiser Refit base turn rate: 12 degrees per second

    ______________________________


    This lets you use one console and keep the benefits that previously required two. Let's face it, multiple RCS Accelerators with a flat turn rate bonus would be horribly imbalanced. If this change is going to happen, the consoles can't be able to stack.
  • Options
    greyrydergreyryder Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    To quote the new Django movie; "You had my curiosity. Now, you have my attention."

    I've got two purple MkXIs on it, and with my other buffs (including the fleet engines) I've got her up a little over 14 degrees per second. I don't think I could turn down (no pun intended) 15 degrees/second with a single console.
  • Options
    eristhevortaeristhevorta Member Posts: 1,049 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2012
    I would actually overhawl all cunsoles. Lots of white MK XII cunsoles give the SAME values as their green ****erparts, and also the blue MK XI ones. White MK XII's are supposed to reflect green MK XI values, not MK XII or blue MK XI! Most if not all cunsoles are bugged like that.
    "Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
    Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
  • Options
    erkyss2erkyss2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Escort - speed + turn rate = defense

    Cruiser - large hull, and large amount of healing ab. = defense

    Cruiser need bit more turning abilities, but just look at the carriers. I˙m flying 2 carriers (Vo`quv and Recluse) and that giants is hard to pilot. Comparing cruisers with carriers, than cruiser is a child`s play ;)
  • Options
    quiscustodietquiscustodiet Member Posts: 350
    edited December 2012
    Hey, I know! Let's make Console bonuses give absolute values instead of completely fair relative values!


    Oh, and you got it wrong. A Sovereign with 2 purple Mk XII RCSes has a 9.8 turnrate, not 11.9.
    Cruisers don't need an "edge", they need the "CRUZER ONRY" crowd to learn game mechanics.
  • Options
    sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Cruisers and their crews are as capable as any other ship
    Live long and Prosper
  • Options
    sparhawksparhawk Member Posts: 796 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    starboardnacelle wrote: »
    The RCS Accelerator calculates its buff by the base turn rate of the vessel you're flying. This means that, by nature, RCS Accelerator consoles benefit Cruisers the least out of every ship type. This seems a little unfair, seeing as they're the ones that need them most.

    ______________________________


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    +35% base flight turn rate.

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 6 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 15 degrees per second

    With the console applied:

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 8.1 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 20.25 degrees per second

    ______________________________


    I propose that we change the console to give flat boosts in degrees per second, but remove its ability to stack. This would give Cruisers a much-needed edge without completely skewing balance. The modified console would be:

    ______________________________


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    +5 degrees flight turn rate.

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 6 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 15 degrees per second

    With the console applied:

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 11 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 20 degrees per second

    That would be nice, whether it will happen is an entirely different matter.
  • Options
    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    starboardnacelle wrote: »
    The RCS Accelerator calculates its buff by the base turn rate of the vessel you're flying. This means that, by nature, RCS Accelerator consoles benefit Cruisers the least out of every ship type. This seems a little unfair, seeing as they're the ones that need them most.

    ______________________________


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    +35% base flight turn rate.

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 6 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 15 degrees per second

    With the console applied:

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 8.1 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 20.25 degrees per second

    ______________________________


    I propose that we change the console to give flat boosts in degrees per second, but remove its ability to stack. This would give Cruisers a much-needed edge without completely skewing balance. The modified console would be:

    ______________________________


    [Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI]
    +5 degrees flight turn rate.

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 6 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 15 degrees per second

    With the console applied:

    Odyssey Star Cruiser base turn rate: 11 degrees per second
    Tactical Escort Retrofit base turn rate: 20 degrees per second
    sparhawk wrote: »
    That would be nice, whether it will happen is an entirely different matter.

    This isn't the first time an RCS thread has come up, and I can tell you that the devs see it "working as intended" so you won't see any changes.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • Options
    duaths1duaths1 Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    no. i think it is fine. there is no reason an Oddy should have 17+ turn.

    wanna turn around? fly an escort.
  • Options
    torsten1009torsten1009 Member Posts: 454 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Cruisers are maneuverable! They don't need a boost to their turn-rate...

    My Atrox is another story. -> You see, it's all about the point of view.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
  • Options
    starboardnacellestarboardnacelle Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    duaths1 wrote: »
    no. i think it is fine. there is no reason an Oddy should have 17+ turn.

    wanna turn around? fly an escort.
    starboardnacelle wrote: »
    I propose that we change the console to give flat boosts in degrees per second, but remove its ability to stack.

    Reading comprehension is key. The most you would be able to get out of an Odyssey before skills is 11.5 degrees per second. After Starship Impulse Thrusters, Enhanced Engineering Systems, and Engine Performance, that's maybe 14. No faster than your average Science Vessel.
    quiscustodiet wrote: »
    Hey, I know! Let's make Console bonuses give absolute values instead of completely fair relative values!

    This is where our opinions differ. I don't see Escorts getting higher yields from these consoles as fair.
    sollvax wrote: »
    Cruisers and their crews are as capable as any other ship

    Realistically, with the new changes to Polarize Hull and Hazard Emitters, Science Vessels can build up as much hull damage resistance as Cruisers and still function as crowd controllers or drain boats. They're effectively redundant.
  • Options
    r37r37 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It would be a good change, witch is why it's highly unlikely to ever happen, you may as well throw in + 10 Inertia rating on it for good measure. It's about dam time some of the in-game mods had a makeover to make them worth slotting.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Science ships ARE cruisers
    Live long and Prosper
  • Options
    travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    No, I like using my Hegh'ta to fly circles around giant, lumbering space whales.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • Options
    lancemeszaroslancemeszaros Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    If the RCS console are working as intended, then the devs need a different intent because their current one is garbage.

    I fly primarily escort and my build never has an RCS because I don't need one and it's taking away slots that a more useful console could fill. That's the trade-off, just like with any other console. I support this idea completely and think it would make things a lot fairer and better off. RCS consoles as they are now are broken.
  • Options
    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    lancemeszaros wrote: »
    If the RCS console are working as intended, then the devs need a different intent because their current one is garbage.

    I fly primarily escort and my build never has an RCS because I don't need one and it's taking away slots that a more useful console could fill. That's the trade-off, just like with any other console. I support this idea completely and think it would make things a lot fairer and better off. RCS consoles as they are now are broken.

    I know about a dozen escort and cruiser pilots that would disagree with what you just said.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • Options
    lancemeszaroslancemeszaros Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    hereticknight085 wrote: »
    I know about a dozen escort and cruiser pilots that would disagree with what you just said.

    There's always going to be people happy with the status quo; that does not mean that there isn't room for change.

    A change to RCS Accelerators in line with what starboard is suggesting would be better overall in terms of game balance and prevent "spinning top BoP" levels of silliness.
  • Options
    travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    lancemeszaros wrote: »
    There's always going to be people happy with the status quo; that does not mean that there isn't room for change.

    A change to RCS Accelerators in line with what starboard is suggesting would be better overall in terms of game balance and prevent "spinning top BoP" levels of silliness.

    Yes, yes, of course. Let's nerf turnrates for those darn BoPs by unnecessarily TRIBBLE with the RCS consoles (of which I carry two on my BoP, to keep up with Defiants in high-speed mode), and remove yet another reason to fly the dang things. Who cares about those BoPs, anyways?
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • Options
    starboardnacellestarboardnacelle Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    travelingmaster wrote: »
    Yes, yes, of course. Let's nerf turnrates for those darn BoPs by unnecessarily TRIBBLE with the RCS consoles (of which I carry two on my BoP, to keep up with Defiants in high-speed mode), and remove yet another reason to fly the dang things. Who cares about those BoPs, anyways?

    You'd still have the fastest turn rate in the game with a base of 21 and a maximum of ~27 with a purple Mark XII RCS console and six points in Impulse Thrusters. I'm not really seeing the problem.
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