What would really suck is if the devs listened to all the moaning and made cruisers faster and capable of dishing out more DPS as that would totally remove the reason for having any other ship class in the game.
I get the upper end of the cruiser DPS range and I feel inadequate in the face of an unbuffed escort doing over twice my damage... I mean, really?
And on top of that I have to wait ages to move... while this escort is ripping things up left right and centre... again, really?
All this for what? A little extra health... A borg HY torp is going to kill me in the same number of seconds as it will the aforementioned escort, meanwhile the escort gets damage output capability AND movement capability, the only drawback being that if you don't build it perfectly you're a little flimsy... BIG DEAL! (I don't think)
So yeah, give us something, I can live with being slow if my damage output could compete, I can live with my lower damage if I could move... Hell my Fleet Nova class is keeping up with cruisers and I chose EPtS for that one...
I don't think it unreasonable that Cruisers should get something, preferably an inherent power drain resistance so that they could hold up 6 beams broadsiding
I play a lot of solo in PVE. Have a Fed eng and KDF eng in both cruisers. I have yet have any problems being UP. At least what I do. A few times I got into battle with several ships, and made me wonder how in the world I managed to survive. I was hitting everything I had, and saw epic fighting on the screen. As I fought for survival and came out in Victory. Specially with my Fed cruiser with beams/torpedoes firing like crazy. As for my KDF I got into a couple good battles as well. And that style is different since I have cannons mounted that can only fire forward. (Dual and Heavy). After those battles, my Klingon Capt passed out blood wine and sang victory songs. With songs to tell to other Captains of Glorious Battles.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I get the upper end of the cruiser DPS range and I feel inadequate in the face of an unbuffed escort doing over twice my damage... I mean, really?
And on top of that I have to wait ages to move... while this escort is ripping things up left right and centre... again, really?
All this for what? A little extra health... A borg HY torp is going to kill me in the same number of seconds as it will the aforementioned escort, meanwhile the escort gets damage output capability AND movement capability, the only drawback being that if you don't build it perfectly you're a little flimsy... BIG DEAL! (I don't think)
So yeah, give us something, I can live with being slow if my damage output could compete, I can live with my lower damage if I could move... Hell my Fleet Nova class is keeping up with cruisers and I chose EPtS for that one...
I don't think it unreasonable that Cruisers should get something, preferably an inherent power drain resistance so that they could hold up 6 beams broadsiding
Lol saw you at DS9 last night, standing around looking purty =P
Anyways, that out of the way, I agree, an inherent power drain resistance would be nice, especially if you consider the fact that Cruisers are supposed to have the largest and most capable warp cores (especially the larger ships, like the Odyssey, Galaxy, and Sovereign). But we have that ability as Engineers in Nadion Inversion. It's probably one of our best abilities, since it not only reduces our self power drain, but greatly reduces all external drains as well. BUT it would be nice if it wasn't like Aceton Beam 3 and had a cooldown that lasted until next week. Same goes for EPS transfer booster. It's an AMAZING ability (I mean come on, massive power transfer rate bonus, AND a bonus 30 to ALL subsystems) but it's cooldown is long. Very long. Disgustingly long... -.-
But I am a little concerned since you were saying you have trouble maintaining a powerful 6 beam broadside. This troubles me since on my Odyssey I can maintain a rather mean 7 beam broadside, and have my power not drop below the 85-95 range. This means all of my shots on Borg ships (which have an inherent 20-30% damage resistance bonus) are still not going any lower than 550 at the END of my salvo. The beginning I am up near the 900-1000 range (depending on buffs and debuffs). And this is with mk XI blue tactical consoles. I imagine if I had mk XII purples it would increase to around 1100-1200 at the start, and not go below 600. But until those drop below their insanely high price (not happening I know), no thanks. But the concerning part is that my freebie Sovereign can maintain a 6 beam broadside with ease. And her power bonuses are the same as an Excelsior. So I think you might need to take a look at either 1) your power settings, or 2) your EPtX. If you don't have an EPtW going constantly, that might be why your broadsides are a little lacking. To cycle that, since you run an excel, I would say have two copies of at least EPtW2 (I mean you have all those bloody engi spots, might as well make use of them), OR if you want to be pure damage, two copies of EPtW3, and keep them activating one after the other. I mean, +40 power to weapons, +25% damage for 5 seconds, that's a nightmare.
Just my 2 rather long-winded ECs.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I never said I had problems holding up a powerful 6 beam broadside, I get 800-1300 and usually no lower than 600-700 at the end of a volley (I use a Mk XI Rare EPS flow reg, try it, it moved my weapon power low from 75 to 90-95) it just feels somewhat underwhelming
I never said I had problems holding up a powerful 6 beam broadside, I get 800-1300 and usually no lower than 600-700 at the end of a volley (I use a Mk XI Rare EPS flow reg, try it, it moved my weapon power low from 75 to 90-95) it just feels somewhat underwhelming
The thing is though, we aren't the main damage dealers. We're the support pressure damage. Emphasis on support. Yes, I know in canon the cruisers were the lords of space, with their massive phaser arrays laying down the law in the name of the UFP, but alas, it's not that way in this game. And if it was, your Excelsior would probably be a heck of a lot weaker than it is XP.
But I would support the passive weak nadion inversion on cruisers. But if we're going into what they may/may not need, I would also vie for a passive threat generation bonus on cruisers, AND increased innate accuracy of BAs. Not by much, maybe 5% for the accuracy, and maybe the equivalent of the first 3 points in TC. As for the passive nadion, maybe a 25% decrease in energy consumption. If that's too much, then reduce it to 20%. I would actually settle for 10% tbh.
Do that (and the universally agreed on +2 turn rate increase), and I think a LOT of these kinds of threads would die overnight. Also, with just these tiny bonuses/changes, you would not infringe upon escorts or science ships. At all.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The thing is though, we aren't the main damage dealers. We're the support pressure damage. Emphasis on support. Yes, I know in canon the cruisers were the lords of space, with their massive phaser arrays laying down the law in the name of the UFP, but alas, it's not that way in this game. And if it was, your Excelsior would probably be a heck of a lot weaker than it is XP.
But I would support the passive weak nadion inversion on cruisers. But if we're going into what they may/may not need, I would also vie for a passive threat generation bonus on cruisers, AND increased innate accuracy of BAs. Not by much, maybe 5% for the accuracy, and maybe the equivalent of the first 3 points in TC. As for the passive nadion, maybe a 25% decrease in energy consumption. If that's too much, then reduce it to 20%. I would actually settle for 10% tbh.
Do that (and the universally agreed on +2 turn rate increase), and I think a LOT of these kinds of threads would die overnight. Also, with just these tiny bonuses/changes, you would not infringe upon escorts or science ships. At all.
A 5% bonus accuracy is no small bonus on top of what Mod the mark level and rarity will add to the mix. All [Acc] +10% beam arrays become +15%, so on and so on.
I could actually agree with that if all cannons got a inherent +2.5% bonus to DPV.
I even agree on the +2 turn rate and inertia buff for Cruisers, and a +1/ no inertia buff for battle cruisers.
New tier 1 to tier 3 beam Fire for Effect (crf similiar) abilities.
New cannon overload abilities for tier 2 to tier 4.
Heavy beam arrays added to games option of weapons.
And the low engine power zero-axis changes I spoke of else where in this thread that allow the Cruiser to spin on its on axis better.
A 5% bonus accuracy is no small bonus on top of what Mod the mark level and rarity will add to the mix. All [Acc] +10% beam arrays become +15%, so on and so on.
I could actually agree with that if all cannons got a inherent +2.5% bonus to DPV.
I even agree on the +2 turn rate and inertia buff for Cruisers, and a +1/ no inertia buff for battle cruisers.
New tier 1 to tier 3 beam Fire for Effect (crf similiar) abilities.
New cannon overload abilities for tier 2 to tier 4.
All back this all the way
Heavy beam arrays added to games option of weapons.
This if they can broadside, otherwise you're adding another weapon to the game that will never be used
This if they can broadside, otherwise you're adding another weapon to the game that will never be used
There where additional changes that where involved with the introduction of them
Into the game.
Beam Arrays have an increased firing to 300 degrees thus making broadsides a little better due to an increased overlapping fields.
Dual Beam Banks would be increased to 180 degrees.
And possibly increase single Cannon damage and firing to closer match Single beams and Dual Cannons to match Dual Beam Banks if they do not already do so.
There where additional changes that where involved with the introduction of them
Into the game.
Beam Arrays have an increased firing to 300 degrees thus making broadsides a little better due to an increased overlapping fields.
Dual Beam Banks would be increased to 180 degrees.
And possibly increase single Cannon damage and firing to closer match Single beams and Dual Cannons to match Dual Beam Banks if they do not already do so.
Those changes are too sweeping though. It would never fly with a lot of veteran players, to say nothing of the developers.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Those changes are too sweeping though. It would never fly with a lot of veteran players, to say nothing of the developers.
With all the other somewhat ill thought out stuff thrown into the game that unbalances evrything these changes seem minor to me and I feel they would both add to he games fun and clearup some of the "cruisers grief" without infringing on the qualities that make the escorts fun to play.
With all the other somewhat ill thought out stuff thrown into the game that unbalances evrything these changes seem minor to me and I feel they would both add to he games fun and clearup some of the "cruisers grief" without infringing on the qualities that make the escorts fun to play.
The catch here is that most of the devs believe that cruisers are fine as is and feel no need to change them. And those that do want to keep their jobs so they say nothing.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The catch here is that most of the devs believe that cruisers are fine as is and feel no need to change them. And those that do want to keep their jobs so they say nothing.
Ah, catch 23. Queston not the status quo and keep your job.
Seems a bit harsh over a such a simple thong that would help player fun.
Yes, an Orion in a thong would help player fun indeed, but that's not the issue here, cruisers are.
I prefer Orions in clothes but as you said, that's not the issue here.
It would help the game overall if damage was more readily available on cruisers, it make make being good at building them a bonus not a necessity, at that point they wouldn't feel quite so underwhelming and the peeps who don't build so well can still play a good part in teams while those who do build well have something to show for it.
As it is I'm presently debating Fleet Excelsior or Fleet Nova
Sometimes too much so.
I had to kill bekk T'malesh becuase he would just hide in the corner console and toggle the claok on and off rapidly for an hour everytime an Orion crew member walked by on her way to the showers.
We will miss T'malesh.
Sometimes too much so.
I had to kill bekk T'malesh becuase he would just hide in the corner console and toggle the claok on and off rapidly for an hour everytime an Orion crew member walked by on her way to the showers.
We will miss T'malesh.
Surely that's just poor ship design? Why would you have the cloaking switch underneath a desk? Every time there is an accidental "rise" that's just asking for trouble!
Surely that's just poor ship design? Why would you have the cloaking switch underneath a desk? Every time there is an accidental "rise" that's just asking for trouble!
True, sadly so.
I won't even begin to describe what we caught one our Orions was doing with the manual control flight stick.....
Its the last time I but the House of Pent addition of a vessel, i'm telling you.
KDF battlecruisers are in a whole other category compared to Federation cruisers. A turn rate buff may not seem that significant, but agility is the difference between engaging with some of your weapons from 8km and engaging with all of them from 1km. If you have two cruisers with equal loadout, skills, and abilities, and one has a turn rate of 10 and the other has a turn rate of 6, the more agile cruiser will do more damage on average. A lot more.
Comments
I get the upper end of the cruiser DPS range and I feel inadequate in the face of an unbuffed escort doing over twice my damage... I mean, really?
And on top of that I have to wait ages to move... while this escort is ripping things up left right and centre... again, really?
All this for what? A little extra health... A borg HY torp is going to kill me in the same number of seconds as it will the aforementioned escort, meanwhile the escort gets damage output capability AND movement capability, the only drawback being that if you don't build it perfectly you're a little flimsy... BIG DEAL! (I don't think)
So yeah, give us something, I can live with being slow if my damage output could compete, I can live with my lower damage if I could move... Hell my Fleet Nova class is keeping up with cruisers and I chose EPtS for that one...
I don't think it unreasonable that Cruisers should get something, preferably an inherent power drain resistance so that they could hold up 6 beams broadsiding
Which is the point of his comment...
I think you are mistakenly claiming to be in the upper DPS range for cruisers if an unbuffed escort is doing twice the damage
I think you missed the more relevant part "Cruisers aren't toothless..".
You like Biteme are welcome to throw me a friend invite and find out for yourself
just throw an invite to "@adamkafei"
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Lol saw you at DS9 last night, standing around looking purty =P
Anyways, that out of the way, I agree, an inherent power drain resistance would be nice, especially if you consider the fact that Cruisers are supposed to have the largest and most capable warp cores (especially the larger ships, like the Odyssey, Galaxy, and Sovereign). But we have that ability as Engineers in Nadion Inversion. It's probably one of our best abilities, since it not only reduces our self power drain, but greatly reduces all external drains as well. BUT it would be nice if it wasn't like Aceton Beam 3 and had a cooldown that lasted until next week. Same goes for EPS transfer booster. It's an AMAZING ability (I mean come on, massive power transfer rate bonus, AND a bonus 30 to ALL subsystems) but it's cooldown is long. Very long. Disgustingly long... -.-
But I am a little concerned since you were saying you have trouble maintaining a powerful 6 beam broadside. This troubles me since on my Odyssey I can maintain a rather mean 7 beam broadside, and have my power not drop below the 85-95 range. This means all of my shots on Borg ships (which have an inherent 20-30% damage resistance bonus) are still not going any lower than 550 at the END of my salvo. The beginning I am up near the 900-1000 range (depending on buffs and debuffs). And this is with mk XI blue tactical consoles. I imagine if I had mk XII purples it would increase to around 1100-1200 at the start, and not go below 600. But until those drop below their insanely high price (not happening I know), no thanks. But the concerning part is that my freebie Sovereign can maintain a 6 beam broadside with ease. And her power bonuses are the same as an Excelsior. So I think you might need to take a look at either 1) your power settings, or 2) your EPtX. If you don't have an EPtW going constantly, that might be why your broadsides are a little lacking. To cycle that, since you run an excel, I would say have two copies of at least EPtW2 (I mean you have all those bloody engi spots, might as well make use of them), OR if you want to be pure damage, two copies of EPtW3, and keep them activating one after the other. I mean, +40 power to weapons, +25% damage for 5 seconds, that's a nightmare.
Just my 2 rather long-winded ECs.
The thing is though, we aren't the main damage dealers. We're the support pressure damage. Emphasis on support. Yes, I know in canon the cruisers were the lords of space, with their massive phaser arrays laying down the law in the name of the UFP, but alas, it's not that way in this game. And if it was, your Excelsior would probably be a heck of a lot weaker than it is XP.
But I would support the passive weak nadion inversion on cruisers. But if we're going into what they may/may not need, I would also vie for a passive threat generation bonus on cruisers, AND increased innate accuracy of BAs. Not by much, maybe 5% for the accuracy, and maybe the equivalent of the first 3 points in TC. As for the passive nadion, maybe a 25% decrease in energy consumption. If that's too much, then reduce it to 20%. I would actually settle for 10% tbh.
Do that (and the universally agreed on +2 turn rate increase), and I think a LOT of these kinds of threads would die overnight. Also, with just these tiny bonuses/changes, you would not infringe upon escorts or science ships. At all.
A 5% bonus accuracy is no small bonus on top of what Mod the mark level and rarity will add to the mix. All [Acc] +10% beam arrays become +15%, so on and so on.
I could actually agree with that if all cannons got a inherent +2.5% bonus to DPV.
I even agree on the +2 turn rate and inertia buff for Cruisers, and a +1/ no inertia buff for battle cruisers.
New tier 1 to tier 3 beam Fire for Effect (crf similiar) abilities.
New cannon overload abilities for tier 2 to tier 4.
Heavy beam arrays added to games option of weapons.
And the low engine power zero-axis changes I spoke of else where in this thread that allow the Cruiser to spin on its on axis better.
R.I.P
All back this all the way
This if they can broadside, otherwise you're adding another weapon to the game that will never be used
Into the game.
Beam Arrays have an increased firing to 300 degrees thus making broadsides a little better due to an increased overlapping fields.
Dual Beam Banks would be increased to 180 degrees.
And possibly increase single Cannon damage and firing to closer match Single beams and Dual Cannons to match Dual Beam Banks if they do not already do so.
R.I.P
Those changes are too sweeping though. It would never fly with a lot of veteran players, to say nothing of the developers.
With all the other somewhat ill thought out stuff thrown into the game that unbalances evrything these changes seem minor to me and I feel they would both add to he games fun and clearup some of the "cruisers grief" without infringing on the qualities that make the escorts fun to play.
R.I.P
The catch here is that most of the devs believe that cruisers are fine as is and feel no need to change them. And those that do want to keep their jobs so they say nothing.
No, it doesn't have a higher resistance. Your "premise" is wrong, as is many another thing.
i3-2100 3.10GHz
8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM CL9
ASUS DirectCU II GTX 660 OC 2GB GDDR5
Do you have a citation for this? It boosted resistance back in January '11, at least.
You need to double check your "premise" that shield power does not affect resistance as well, because it is wrong. http://www.stowiki.org/Starship_%28Power_and_Subsystems%29
Ah, catch 23. Queston not the status quo and keep your job.
Seems a bit harsh over a such a simple thong that would help player fun.
R.I.P
Yes, an Orion in a thong would help player fun indeed, but that's not the issue here, cruisers are.
I prefer Orions in clothes but as you said, that's not the issue here.
It would help the game overall if damage was more readily available on cruisers, it make make being good at building them a bonus not a necessity, at that point they wouldn't feel quite so underwhelming and the peeps who don't build so well can still play a good part in teams while those who do build well have something to show for it.
As it is I'm presently debating Fleet Excelsior or Fleet Nova
Orions in thongs are always the issue.
If you like me think they are fine fly them
If you think that I should not fly one because you think its underpowered then you can do the other thing
R.I.P
Sometimes too much so.
I had to kill bekk T'malesh becuase he would just hide in the corner console and toggle the claok on and off rapidly for an hour everytime an Orion crew member walked by on her way to the showers.
We will miss T'malesh.
R.I.P
Surely that's just poor ship design? Why would you have the cloaking switch underneath a desk? Every time there is an accidental "rise" that's just asking for trouble!
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
True, sadly so.
I won't even begin to describe what we caught one our Orions was doing with the manual control flight stick.....
Its the last time I but the House of Pent addition of a vessel, i'm telling you.
R.I.P
AMEN, Brother!!!!!!!
That's exactly why I use an Excelsior hull, and she has definite advantages in combat over her Vorcha counterpart.