The Tal'Shiar are traitors who served the iconians. Section 31 is villainous, sure, but not to the point of siding with the ones that destroyed their own homeworld.
The intent was not to destroy their homeworld but rather to secure it. The Tal Shiar had no interest in serving the Iconians nor letting the Iconians continue beyond a stated point. To the Tal Shiar, the Iconians were an means to an end, Both Sela and the Tal Shiar had unification at the heart of their agenda(s).
Accidentally blowing up their own homeworld makes them dumb villains, but no less villains.
S31 does nothing dissimilar than the Tal Shiar. The objectives are the same, S31 seeks to maintain Federation control through covert and covet means. S31 has access to advanced technologies that, by admission, have offworld origins. This is the same stated objective used by the Tal Shiar - researched Borg devices to combat the incursions, as well as Iconian technology. These advancements were imbedded into Romulan vessels, just as S31 has done with its patrol ships. The only difference is that the Tal Shiar did so to find weakness and weaponize the same technology for the defense of the Romulan Republic while S31 chooses to advance its own agenda. I fear S31 more than the Tal Shiar. S31 has access to essentially unlimited resources and is authorized to conscript any Federation member citizen or any Federation member world vessel for unstated purposes. This is far more dangerous than any threat, whether real or perceived, by the Tal Shiar.
S31 has never got the Federation destroyed. The Tal Shiar did get the Romulan Star Empire destroyed. And then themselves.
We may presume they were both trying to defend their own faction by any means necessary (although some, like Hakeev, clearly "went native" with the iconians), but the Tal Shiar clearly sucked at it far worse than S31 ever did.
For the record, I think this is a pre-cursor to the 10th Anniversary event/mission/arc where we'll see the red/blue wall come down, although with the same faction specific exclusions we've seen in this case.
For the record, I think this is a pre-cursor to the 10th Anniversary event/mission/arc where we'll see the red/blue wall come down, although with the same faction specific exclusions we've seen in this case.
I doubt it it will ever happen. Its one thing to take off the barriers that prevented a full faction from using half faction ships or the reverse half faction from using certain amounts of full factions ships and another to apply this to two differant seperate factions that are full factions in terms of the code. Like in the case of full/half factions the way they have it set up. Given once you join up as a fed or kdf with a romulan/jem you really are a fed or kdf because of the system code. To make the half faction feel like a full faction they had barriers to prevent romulans from fully using their allied star ships when they were high teir which they had to remove to allow Jem Hadars to use their allies high teir ships while also having another barrier that prevented the feds and kdf from using romulan ships. I'm guessing to improve performance and maybe remove the strain they removed the barrier codes all together. Hence allowing feds and kdf being able to fly romulan ships now.
Federation and Kdf are pretty much a whole different ball game then the barriers listed above. The coding for both is tied into a lot of stuff like teaming up and fleets and maybe even the duty officer system. But the biggest hurdle is the fleet system and here is why. The fleet system basically is two separate systems. To change it so the cross faction thing and barriers they would have to take all the data of every fleet there is and covert and move everyone over to a carbon copy cross faction version of it. They would have to make it so klingon starbase and federation starbase are part of the new fleet holdings so instead of one starbase a fleet would have two a fed one and a kdf one. Then the changes they would have to make. So everything works proper and have to make sure to code it so it doesn't mess everything up and then have to remove all the older fleets from the game not to mention the transferring would be the most difficult thing to pull off.
A lot of work and also more money then its worth to possibly even think of pulling something like this off. So yeah because of the hurdles I don't think its going to happen. Not to mention the hurdles they would have to over come to
remove the wall. So because of the hurdles its just not going to happen. There will be no Red/blue wall coming down because its way to complex to tear down. If it wasn't they would have already done so.
> @thevampinator said: > (Quote) > > I doubt it it will ever happen. Its one thing to take off the barriers that prevented a full faction from using half faction ships or the reverse half faction from using certain amounts of full factions ships and another to apply this to two differant seperate factions that are full factions in terms of the code. Like in the case of full/half factions the way they have it set up. Given once you join up as a fed or kdf with a romulan/jem you really are a fed or kdf because of the system code. To make the half faction feel like a full faction they had barriers to prevent romulans from fully using their allied star ships when they were high teir which they had to remove to allow Jem Hadars to use their allies high teir ships while also having another barrier that prevented the feds and kdf from using romulan ships. I'm guessing to improve performance and maybe remove the strain they removed the barrier codes all together. Hence allowing feds and kdf being able to fly romulan ships now. > > Federation and Kdf are pretty much a whole different ball game then the barriers listed above. The coding for both is tied into a lot of stuff like teaming up and fleets and maybe even the duty officer system. But the biggest hurdle is the fleet system and here is why. The fleet system basically is two separate systems. To change it so the cross faction thing and barriers they would have to take all the data of every fleet there is and covert and move everyone over to a carbon copy cross faction version of it. They would have to make it so klingon starbase and federation starbase are part of the new fleet holdings so instead of one starbase a fleet would have two a fed one and a kdf one. Then the changes they would have to make. So everything works proper and have to make sure to code it so it doesn't mess everything up and then have to remove all the older fleets from the game not to mention the transferring would be the most difficult thing to pull off. > > A lot of work and also more money then its worth to possibly even think of pulling something like this off. So yeah because of the hurdles I don't think its going to happen. Not to mention the hurdles they would have to over come to > remove the wall. So because of the hurdles its just not going to happen. There will be no Red/blue wall coming down because its way to complex to tear down. If it wasn't they would have already done so.
I don't think I explained my thoughts properly - I agree with all that you've said about fleets etc.
When I talked about the wall coming down, I literally just meant in the same way as has been the subject of this thread, Feds and KDF getting access to each other's ships.
> @thevampinator said:
> (Quote)
>
> I doubt it it will ever happen. Its one thing to take off the barriers that prevented a full faction from using half faction ships or the reverse half faction from using certain amounts of full factions ships and another to apply this to two differant seperate factions that are full factions in terms of the code. Like in the case of full/half factions the way they have it set up. Given once you join up as a fed or kdf with a romulan/jem you really are a fed or kdf because of the system code. To make the half faction feel like a full faction they had barriers to prevent romulans from fully using their allied star ships when they were high teir which they had to remove to allow Jem Hadars to use their allies high teir ships while also having another barrier that prevented the feds and kdf from using romulan ships. I'm guessing to improve performance and maybe remove the strain they removed the barrier codes all together. Hence allowing feds and kdf being able to fly romulan ships now.
>
> Federation and Kdf are pretty much a whole different ball game then the barriers listed above. The coding for both is tied into a lot of stuff like teaming up and fleets and maybe even the duty officer system. But the biggest hurdle is the fleet system and here is why. The fleet system basically is two separate systems. To change it so the cross faction thing and barriers they would have to take all the data of every fleet there is and covert and move everyone over to a carbon copy cross faction version of it. They would have to make it so klingon starbase and federation starbase are part of the new fleet holdings so instead of one starbase a fleet would have two a fed one and a kdf one. Then the changes they would have to make. So everything works proper and have to make sure to code it so it doesn't mess everything up and then have to remove all the older fleets from the game not to mention the transferring would be the most difficult thing to pull off.
>
> A lot of work and also more money then its worth to possibly even think of pulling something like this off. So yeah because of the hurdles I don't think its going to happen. Not to mention the hurdles they would have to over come to
> remove the wall. So because of the hurdles its just not going to happen. There will be no Red/blue wall coming down because its way to complex to tear down. If it wasn't they would have already done so.
I don't think I explained my thoughts properly - I agree with all that you've said about fleets etc.
When I talked about the wall coming down, I literally just meant in the same way as has been the subject of this thread, Feds and KDF getting access to each other's ships.
I think only in an event. Otherwise I'd imagine they wouldn't do that.
For the record, I think this is a pre-cursor to the 10th Anniversary event/mission/arc where we'll see the red/blue wall come down, although with the same faction specific exclusions we've seen in this case.
Comments
S31 has never got the Federation destroyed. The Tal Shiar did get the Romulan Star Empire destroyed. And then themselves.
We may presume they were both trying to defend their own faction by any means necessary (although some, like Hakeev, clearly "went native" with the iconians), but the Tal Shiar clearly sucked at it far worse than S31 ever did.
I doubt it it will ever happen. Its one thing to take off the barriers that prevented a full faction from using half faction ships or the reverse half faction from using certain amounts of full factions ships and another to apply this to two differant seperate factions that are full factions in terms of the code. Like in the case of full/half factions the way they have it set up. Given once you join up as a fed or kdf with a romulan/jem you really are a fed or kdf because of the system code. To make the half faction feel like a full faction they had barriers to prevent romulans from fully using their allied star ships when they were high teir which they had to remove to allow Jem Hadars to use their allies high teir ships while also having another barrier that prevented the feds and kdf from using romulan ships. I'm guessing to improve performance and maybe remove the strain they removed the barrier codes all together. Hence allowing feds and kdf being able to fly romulan ships now.
Federation and Kdf are pretty much a whole different ball game then the barriers listed above. The coding for both is tied into a lot of stuff like teaming up and fleets and maybe even the duty officer system. But the biggest hurdle is the fleet system and here is why. The fleet system basically is two separate systems. To change it so the cross faction thing and barriers they would have to take all the data of every fleet there is and covert and move everyone over to a carbon copy cross faction version of it. They would have to make it so klingon starbase and federation starbase are part of the new fleet holdings so instead of one starbase a fleet would have two a fed one and a kdf one. Then the changes they would have to make. So everything works proper and have to make sure to code it so it doesn't mess everything up and then have to remove all the older fleets from the game not to mention the transferring would be the most difficult thing to pull off.
A lot of work and also more money then its worth to possibly even think of pulling something like this off. So yeah because of the hurdles I don't think its going to happen. Not to mention the hurdles they would have to over come to
remove the wall. So because of the hurdles its just not going to happen. There will be no Red/blue wall coming down because its way to complex to tear down. If it wasn't they would have already done so.
> (Quote)
>
> I doubt it it will ever happen. Its one thing to take off the barriers that prevented a full faction from using half faction ships or the reverse half faction from using certain amounts of full factions ships and another to apply this to two differant seperate factions that are full factions in terms of the code. Like in the case of full/half factions the way they have it set up. Given once you join up as a fed or kdf with a romulan/jem you really are a fed or kdf because of the system code. To make the half faction feel like a full faction they had barriers to prevent romulans from fully using their allied star ships when they were high teir which they had to remove to allow Jem Hadars to use their allies high teir ships while also having another barrier that prevented the feds and kdf from using romulan ships. I'm guessing to improve performance and maybe remove the strain they removed the barrier codes all together. Hence allowing feds and kdf being able to fly romulan ships now.
>
> Federation and Kdf are pretty much a whole different ball game then the barriers listed above. The coding for both is tied into a lot of stuff like teaming up and fleets and maybe even the duty officer system. But the biggest hurdle is the fleet system and here is why. The fleet system basically is two separate systems. To change it so the cross faction thing and barriers they would have to take all the data of every fleet there is and covert and move everyone over to a carbon copy cross faction version of it. They would have to make it so klingon starbase and federation starbase are part of the new fleet holdings so instead of one starbase a fleet would have two a fed one and a kdf one. Then the changes they would have to make. So everything works proper and have to make sure to code it so it doesn't mess everything up and then have to remove all the older fleets from the game not to mention the transferring would be the most difficult thing to pull off.
>
> A lot of work and also more money then its worth to possibly even think of pulling something like this off. So yeah because of the hurdles I don't think its going to happen. Not to mention the hurdles they would have to over come to
> remove the wall. So because of the hurdles its just not going to happen. There will be no Red/blue wall coming down because its way to complex to tear down. If it wasn't they would have already done so.
I don't think I explained my thoughts properly - I agree with all that you've said about fleets etc.
When I talked about the wall coming down, I literally just meant in the same way as has been the subject of this thread, Feds and KDF getting access to each other's ships.
I think only in an event. Otherwise I'd imagine they wouldn't do that.