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The Return of Neo, Matrix 4 Announced

azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,564 Arc User
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

Robert Heinlein
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,269 Arc User
    Why?
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,549 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Why?

    Because they can?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,219 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Why?

    Hollywood
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,269 Arc User
    Ever since Marvel/Disney struck gold with the MCU, every studio is clamoring to find some franchise they can sell.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,647 Arc User
    The fact that Reeves signed on makes me hopeful that the third movie at least is going to be retconned out. (I've long held that Zion is in fact a secondary level of the Matrix, a catchment for those who disbelieved in the main program so strongly that they overwhelmed its bonds. Zion gives them a secondary Matrix where they can believe they're freedom fighters working against the original "imprisonment" of the Matrix. If nothing else, it'd explain why everyone in Zion believes so fervently in the inherently silly notion of all those living human bodies being used as batteries, as if the human brain produced so much bioelectricity that it could actually be harnessed using less energy than it takes to maintain the bodies and provide the simulation to keep them all complacent.)
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,297 Arc User
    So the Wachowski Brothers want to (yet again) make another high production cost, high profile film that will utterly BOMB at the Box Office again? Color me surprised.

    I liked the first Matrix film, yes; but the sequels left a lot to be desired. I think the time of "The Matrix's" franchise popularity has passed...much like the MIB franchise.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,647 Arc User
    That's Wachowski Sisters, thank you. And Lana's involved, but apparently Lily has stepped away from moviemaking since the transition.

    As for "bomb" - Matrix Reloaded cost $150 million to make, and grossed over $450 million worldwide, which means it didn't exactly do Avengers: Endgame numbers, but hell, I'd settle for a "bomb" like that!
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,269 Arc User
    It will stink.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,647 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    It will stink.

    You can see the future? Cool! What are next week's Powerball numbers?
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,269 Arc User
    Jon I've seen enough of the Matrix movies to know that I didn't care for them and chances are more than likely I will not care for this one, so I can safely say it will stink.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,602 Arc User
    Wait a minute, shouldn't it be The Matrix 2? I've never seen the Matrix, but I was told they only made one movie?
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,947 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The fact that Reeves signed on makes me hopeful that the third movie at least is going to be retconned out. (I've long held that Zion is in fact a secondary level of the Matrix, a catchment for those who disbelieved in the main program so strongly that they overwhelmed its bonds. Zion gives them a secondary Matrix where they can believe they're freedom fighters working against the original "imprisonment" of the Matrix. If nothing else, it'd explain why everyone in Zion believes so fervently in the inherently silly notion of all those living human bodies being used as batteries, as if the human brain produced so much bioelectricity that it could actually be harnessed using less energy than it takes to maintain the bodies and provide the simulation to keep them all complacent.)

    You are probably right about Zion being part of the Matrix. If the humans darkened the sky in the wars, then the robots can just find alternative methods of power rather than using the completely inefficient human battery method. It is also possible that humanity turned themselves into batteries due to VR addiction and forgot that they put themselves there. So using human batteries would be an efficient method of keeping the Matrix powered not to power robots. Zion would be full of former VR Junkies that forgot that they or their parents put them in the Matrix not evil robots.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,647 Arc User
    The energy available from humans wouldn't be anywhere near sufficient to power the Matrix itself, never mind the flying squidbots. I've heard that the Wachowskis originally wanted the purpose of the Matrix to be to harness the spare cycles of human brains to supplement the computers the AI was running on, but the studio thought we'd all be too dumb to understand that. So they came up with the "human coppertop" idea instead.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,549 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The energy available from humans wouldn't be anywhere near sufficient to power the Matrix itself, never mind the flying squidbots. I've heard that the Wachowskis originally wanted the purpose of the Matrix to be to harness the spare cycles of human brains to supplement the computers the AI was running on, but the studio thought we'd all be too dumb to understand that. So they came up with the "human coppertop" idea instead.
    Well, I would have. Then in the Matrix, the claim that we only use 10 % of the brain might be true, because the rest is used by the machines. And we can at least pretend there is something unique about the brain that makes it more efficient to create humans then to build a machine for it.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,647 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The energy available from humans wouldn't be anywhere near sufficient to power the Matrix itself, never mind the flying squidbots. I've heard that the Wachowskis originally wanted the purpose of the Matrix to be to harness the spare cycles of human brains to supplement the computers the AI was running on, but the studio thought we'd all be too dumb to understand that. So they came up with the "human coppertop" idea instead.
    Well, I would have. Then in the Matrix, the claim that we only use 10 % of the brain might be true, because the rest is used by the machines. And we can at least pretend there is something unique about the brain that makes it more efficient to create humans then to build a machine for it.
    Thing is, there'd be some justification for it. While it's not true that you only use 10% of your brain, it's equally true that you don't use all of it all of the time. There actually are spare cycles that could in theory be used by an AI. And the human brain is one thing we haven't been able to duplicate artificially, and in fact may never be able to duplicate without some as-yet-undeveloped computing technology, because the interconnections between neurons aren't merely electrical, or even entirely electrochemical - there are signs that quantum entanglement may be involved as well (it's also found in plants, so there's precedent). And of course neural connectivity is variable; a given neuron usually connects to several others, not just one, and can sever connections which aren't used and establish new ones to try. This doesn't work well with electronics. It might be easier for our hypothetical AI system to use spare bits of human brains than to manufacture artificial systems that do the same thing.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,881 Arc User
    Oh gawd. Everyone scrambles and tries to get their dead garbage franchises back on deck to create cinematic universes of.

    The Matrix was the most curious and pretentious garbage movie trilogy of it's time. The first one is a really badly aged but still okay-ish action flick (it's somewhere out there with Equilibrium - Killer of Emotion), and the rest imcluding "The Animatrix" is in my opinion best forgotten. Just like the "other" MIBs or Ghostbusters.
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,564 Arc User
    > @angrytarg said:
    > Oh gawd. Everyone scrambles and tries to get their dead garbage franchises back on deck to create cinematic universes of.
    >
    > The Matrix was the most curious and pretentious garbage movie trilogy of it's time. The first one is a really badly aged but still okay-ish action flick (it's somewhere out there with Equilibrium - Killer of Emotion), and the rest imcluding "The Animatrix" is in my opinion best forgotten. Just like the "other" MIBs or Ghostbusters.

    Disageed on all counts, oh the second and third aren't as good but none are garbage. Equilibrium might be Bale's best role after American Psycho. The other films you mention are just fine too.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,297 Arc User
    edited August 22
    jonsills wrote: »
    That's Wachowski Sisters, thank you. And Lana's involved, but apparently Lily has stepped away from moviemaking since the transition.

    As for "bomb" - Matrix Reloaded cost $150 million to make, and grossed over $450 million worldwide, which means it didn't exactly do Avengers: Endgame numbers, but hell, I'd settle for a "bomb" like that!

    I'm talking stuff they did like:

    "Speed Racer"

    "Cloud Atlas"

    "Jupiter Ascending"...

    IE - nothing they've done post their Matrix films really stands out Box Office wise, and they've of late done some HUGE miscalculations WRT what an audience finds entertaining in that the majority of their recent work has cost A LOT but in the end BOMBED BIG.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,564 Arc User
    A movie "bombing" does not mean its bad, nor does a movie "being a hit" make it good. Jupiter Ascending was better than all of the Transformers films put together.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,647 Arc User
    We'll have to agree to disagree on Jupiter Ascending (I found it to be a near-unwatchable, but very pretty, mishmash of SF tropes so old that Worlds of IF was done with them back in the '50s), but it's not really material - you'd be surprised how very many people are unaware of who exactly was behind the Matrix movies. They think of those as Keanu Reeves films, not Wachowski films. Any attempt to make a new Matrix film without Reeves almost certainly would have bombed, for that very reason.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,834 Arc User
    I have to disagree about MIB and Ghostbusters. Comparing them to The Matrix doesn't work so well because The Matrix was supposed to be a serious story with lots of action. On the other hand MIB and Ghostbusters are both pretty campy with some humor mixed in with the action. And frankly, I'd rather watch Ghostbusters than The Matrix.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,947 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The energy available from humans wouldn't be anywhere near sufficient to power the Matrix itself, never mind the flying squidbots. I've heard that the Wachowskis originally wanted the purpose of the Matrix to be to harness the spare cycles of human brains to supplement the computers the AI was running on, but the studio thought we'd all be too dumb to understand that. So they came up with the "human coppertop" idea instead.

    And we have absolutely no idea how much energy is required to operate the Matrix or the amount of energy that can be safely extracted from a human. However, the energy required for a million people in the same simulation is less than the energy required for a million people in their own unique simulations.

    The Matrix would be far more interesting if it was a Corporation responsible for trapping humans within the Matrix to use their unused neurons for profit. There would be a lot of people willing to rent out their neurons to experience their ideal world and even more if they didn't realize they were renting out their neurons.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,881 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I have to disagree about MIB and Ghostbusters. Comparing them to The Matrix doesn't work so well because The Matrix was supposed to be a serious story with lots of action. On the other hand MIB and Ghostbusters are both pretty campy with some humor mixed in with the action. And frankly, I'd rather watch Ghostbusters than The Matrix.

    My point with MIB and Ghostbusters was that those series had one good movie that even entrenched itself in popular culture - the first, naturally - and then delivered sequels over a longer period of time and none of them even comes close to the magic formula the first ones had. It's the same with The Matrix in my opinion, the first one works because it doesn't try to be much, the sequels pretend to be all deep philosophical pieces which are interrupted by firefights and kung-fu choreography. Of course we all have different opinions and that is fine, as @azrael605 pointed out. My point with Equilibrium was that that movie is also good for what it is, but it's also a blessing that they didn't try to make more of it. Terminator fell in the same trap which was an amazing one-off, but a horrible franchise (again my opinion), despite the fact that I actually liked Genesys which literally killed the franchise for good.

    On top of that, The Matrix has pretty much ran it's course. Something like Star Wars or Star Trek despite varying individual quality of their installments is more or less always relatable. The Matrix is something that in my opinion hasn't aged well. Cranking out a sequel just because it's what we do these days is not a good idea.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,265 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I have to disagree about MIB and Ghostbusters. Comparing them to The Matrix doesn't work so well because The Matrix was supposed to be a serious story with lots of action. On the other hand MIB and Ghostbusters are both pretty campy with some humor mixed in with the action. And frankly, I'd rather watch Ghostbusters than The Matrix.

    My point with MIB and Ghostbusters was that those series had one good movie that even entrenched itself in popular culture - the first, naturally - and then delivered sequels over a longer period of time and none of them even comes close to the magic formula the first ones had. It's the same with The Matrix in my opinion, the first one works because it doesn't try to be much, the sequels pretend to be all deep philosophical pieces which are interrupted by firefights and kung-fu choreography. Of course we all have different opinions and that is fine, as @azrael605 pointed out. My point with Equilibrium was that that movie is also good for what it is, but it's also a blessing that they didn't try to make more of it. Terminator fell in the same trap which was an amazing one-off, but a horrible franchise (again my opinion), despite the fact that I actually liked Genesys which literally killed the franchise for good.

    On top of that, The Matrix has pretty much ran it's course. Something like Star Wars or Star Trek despite varying individual quality of their installments is more or less always relatable. The Matrix is something that in my opinion hasn't aged well. Cranking out a sequel just because it's what we do these days is not a good idea.​​

    If you want to get into the philosophy behind it, then a sequel now (or even a dreaded reboot) would still work because AI and the implications thereof are more mainstream now than when we first got the Matrix. If it's a generic action film then, whatever, it'll still most likley make money due to the name.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,881 Arc User
    Sure, but just watch Black Mirror instead. The Matrix' 'philosophy' isn't really deep, it's the same cautionary AI/Tech tale we enjoy, dare I say, since Charly Chaplin and possibly even longer. What made The Matrix stand out is the style of the outgoing 90s, the coats, the music, the glasses, the bullet time. And all of that is no more (rightfully so pig-2.gif ). I think a fourth one is really not needed, but maybe I'm wrong and it will hit off a Matrix universe that crushes the MCU at the box office, who knows.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,219 Arc User
    Wachowski Brothers...

    Amen. I also agree the time of the Matrix should be done. Enough of this resurrection of past trilogies and the such. You have enough material in books as well as making the movies that were first released in black and white, be done in color now. Thanks. :)
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,564 Arc User
    @angrytarg

    Have you not heard about Dark Fate? Linda Hamilton returning as Sarah Connor? Trailer is out already.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,560 Arc User
    > @crypticarmsman said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > I'm talking stuff they did like:
    >
    > "Speed Racer"
    >
    > "Cloud Atlas"
    >
    > "Jupiter Ascending"...
    >
    > IE - nothing they've done post their Matrix films really stands out Box Office wise, and they've of late done some HUGE miscalculations WRT what an audience finds entertaining in that the majority of their recent work has cost A LOT but in the end BOMBED BIG.


    Hey I really liked Jupiter Ascending, it should have gotten a sequel.

    Anyways given Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure 3 is also coming out can we also expect a Speed sequel?

    Also the social, cultural, and even religious context is alot different from when the first Matrix Movies came out. The Red Pill has been used by MRAs, Neomasculanists, Gnostics and possibly other religious and political groups that believe they have the true insides behind the illusions if reality (politics). There is even a wonderful documentary called the Red Pill.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,947 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    Hey I really liked Jupiter Ascending, it should have gotten a sequel.

    Personally, I find Jupiter Ascending to have some of the most interesting starship designs that I have seen in a movie.

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,834 Arc User
    I never saw it.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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