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Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo team up to force loot box odds disclosures

thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 3,448 Arc User
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/console-makers-will-require-disclosure-of-loot-box-odds/

Saw this over on reddit. Since STO is on XB and PS4 they will be required to show lock box/R&D pack odds for those platforms.

The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008

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Comments

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,221 Arc User
    This is a good idea for them to do it. I doubt it will appease the "lockboxes are the devil" crowd, but it is a step in the right direction.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,258 Arc User
    How much you want to bet this information gets disclosed... only to Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, and none of it makes it out to be public outside of leaks?
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 3,448 Arc User
    How much you want to bet this information gets disclosed... only to Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, and none of it makes it out to be public outside of leaks?

    While that might be funny, I'm pretty sure the 'disclosure' being discussed is to the customers.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,221 Arc User
    edited August 7
    How much you want to bet this information gets disclosed... only to Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, and none of it makes it out to be public outside of leaks?

    How much you want to bet Cryptic could post the odds as huge, blinking text on the screen as soon as someone gets a lootbox drop and people still wouldn't read it?

    How often do you see players posting complaints here on the forums about things that are clearly spelled out in the EULA if only the poster would be bothered to actually read it?

    Personally, I think it is a good thing these companies are doing this. It should not have taken this long for them to do the responsible thing IMO, but at least they are doing it.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,267 Arc User
    edited August 8
    I think a lot will depend on the exact rules and how they're enforced. The article says, "Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony will start requiring new and updated games that sell randomized loot boxes on their consoles to reveal the relative odds of getting individual in-game items through those loot boxes" (emphasis mine). However, I don't see anything in the ESA's announcement about requiring companies to release the odds for individual items rather than broad categories of items.

    https://www.theesa.com/perspectives/video-game-industry-commitments-to-further-inform-consumer-purchases/

    Here's an article from two years ago showing how companies can take advantage of vaguely defined rules and comply in form, but not in spirit.

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/12/apple-now-requires-app-store-games-with-loot-boxes-to-list-odds/
    China began enforcing similar rules for online game operators in May of this year. At that time, when popular game makers like Blizzard complied, they showed how vaguely written rules about loot-box odds can be taken advantage of to leave players in the dark. In Blizzard's case, the company simply announced that each of its loot boxes is guaranteed to contain one "rare"-class item, while players have a 1-in-5.5 chance to earn "epic"-class items or a 1-in-13.5 chance to earn "legendary"-class items.
    Waiting for a programmer ...

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,507 Arc User
    edited August 8
    "Specifically, this would apply to new games and game updates that add loot box features," Warnecke continued. "And it would require the disclosure of the relative rarity or probabilities of obtaining randomized virtual items on their platforms." In a press release, the ESA said the console makers "are targeting 2020 for the implementation of the policy."
    This sounds like old games would be grandfathered in if they already have a lock box type mechanic. (unless "feature" also encompasses new lock box, but that seems unlikely - it's not really a new feature, it's new content for an existing feature.)

    [Update: In a press release, the ESA says "Activision Blizzard, Bandai Namco Entertainment, Bethesda, Bungie, Electronic Arts... Take-Two Interactive, Ubisoft, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, and Wizards of the Coast" are among the major publishers that will start disclosing loot box odds "by the end of 2020." The release also says that "many other ESA members are considering a disclosure."]
    I don't think Wizards of the Coast is a publisher of Neverwinter, that is probably Perfect World, but maybe that could lead to at least Neverwinter releasing its odd anyway even if the platform rules don't technically require it for them. But that would be very speculative.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,123 Arc User
    I don't think Wizards of the Coast is a publisher of Neverwinter, that is probably Perfect World, but maybe that could lead to at least Neverwinter releasing its odd anyway even if the platform rules don't technically require it for them. But that would be very speculative.
    WotC is the people who signed the license agreement.
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  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
    https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2019-08-08/microsoft-sony-nintendo-to-require-games-to-disclose-loot-box-odds-to-players/.149840


    Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo to Require Games to Disclose Loot Box Odds to Players

    This will naturally apply to STO.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited August 8
    Yeah I posted this on NEverwinter forums or something like this. Because wizards was involved Cryptic might have to do this with Neverwinter because of their involvement. But yes it seems to be changes are coming. At some point cryptic might have too. I think players have a good idea of what the chances really are. But yeah It will be very interesting to see the official chances.
    Here is the thing, Sto is very unique as being one of the two major mmos at the time to really start using the practice. Of Lootboxes its listed by name even on the wikipedia. So I'd imagine if lawmakers did look at hte wiki to see which companies would problematic with it. Sto or Cryptic might be brought into the spotlight because it was one of several companies and possibly one of the first mmos the united states to take up the practice. For that reason it could be a little problematic. The way they sell keys instead of lootboxes might be able to get them by any laws but I doubt they could get by Sony or Microsoft on this.

    This is what it says in the wikipieda

    In Western regions (North America and Europe) around 2009, the video game industry saw the success of Zynga and other large publishers of social-network games that offered the games for free on sites like Facebook but included microtransactions to accelerate one's progress in the game, providing that publishers could depend on revenue from post-sale transactions rather than initial sale.[18] The first appearances of loot boxes in these regions was with Team Fortress 2 in September 2010, when Valve Corporation added the ability to earn random "crates" to be opened with purchased keys.[9] Valve's Robin Walker stated that the intent was to create "network effects" that would draw more players to the game, so that there would be more players to obtain revenue from the keys to unlock crates.[18] Valve later transitioned to a free-to-play model, reporting an increase in player count of over 12 times after the transition,[20] and hired Yanis Varoufakis to research virtual economies. Over the next few years many MMOs and multiplayer online battle arena games (MOBAs) also transitioned to a free-to-play business model to help grow out their player base, many adding loot-box monetization in the process,[20][21] with the first two being both Star Trek Online[22] and The Lord of the Rings Online[citation needed] in December 2011.

    Anything could happen really. But yeah it does seem like the battlefront thing exposed the practice to the point lawmakers finally noticed. This is why they are doing this by the way. Possibly in the attempts to keep that one law from getting past. So consoles and gaming companies are starting to self regulate. Cryptic might have to follow any rules the consoles put into place for example I don't think they would have much of a choice in the matter. I think they are giving companies to the end of next year to give them time to code and find out all this information for example or code in the odd chances. To be shown the respective player bases. We will see what happens.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited August 8
    Since this seems to be the main thread just taking this from the other post. And coping it down here.

    Yeah I posted this on NEverwinter forums or something like this. Because wizards was involved Cryptic might have to do this with Neverwinter because of their involvement. But yes it seems to be changes are coming. At some point cryptic might have too. I think players have a good idea of what the chances really are. But yeah It will be very interesting to see the official chances.
    Here is the thing, Sto is very unique as being one of the two major mmos at the time to really start using the practice. Of Lootboxes its listed by name even on the wikipedia. So I'd imagine if lawmakers did look at hte wiki to see which companies would problematic with it. Sto or Cryptic might be brought into the spotlight because it was one of several companies and possibly one of the first mmos the united states to take up the practice. For that reason it could be a little problematic. The way they sell keys instead of lootboxes might be able to get them by any laws but I doubt they could get by Sony or Microsoft on this.

    This is what it says in the wikipieda

    In Western regions (North America and Europe) around 2009, the video game industry saw the success of Zynga and other large publishers of social-network games that offered the games for free on sites like Facebook but included microtransactions to accelerate one's progress in the game, providing that publishers could depend on revenue from post-sale transactions rather than initial sale.[18] The first appearances of loot boxes in these regions was with Team Fortress 2 in September 2010, when Valve Corporation added the ability to earn random "crates" to be opened with purchased keys.[9] Valve's Robin Walker stated that the intent was to create "network effects" that would draw more players to the game, so that there would be more players to obtain revenue from the keys to unlock crates.[18] Valve later transitioned to a free-to-play model, reporting an increase in player count of over 12 times after the transition,[20] and hired Yanis Varoufakis to research virtual economies. Over the next few years many MMOs and multiplayer online battle arena games (MOBAs) also transitioned to a free-to-play business model to help grow out their player base, many adding loot-box monetization in the process,[20][21] with the first two being both Star Trek Online[22] and The Lord of the Rings Online[citation needed] in December 2011.

    Anything could happen really. But yeah it does seem like the battlefront thing exposed the practice to the point lawmakers finally noticed. This is why they are doing this by the way. Possibly in the attempts to keep that one law from getting past. So consoles and gaming companies are starting to self regulate. Cryptic might have to follow any rules the consoles put into place for example I don't think they would have much of a choice in the matter. I think they are giving companies to the end of next year to give them time to code and find out all this information for example or code in the odd chances. To be shown the respective player bases. We will see what happens.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,223 Community Moderator
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,507 Arc User
    I don't think Wizards of the Coast is a publisher of Neverwinter, that is probably Perfect World, but maybe that could lead to at least Neverwinter releasing its odd anyway even if the platform rules don't technically require it for them. But that would be very speculative.
    WotC is the people who signed the license agreement.

    Yep, so they might make such a thing a requirement. But maybe not. But I am not really sure where they appear as publisher with such a thing, but I haven't followed them that closely anymore since they moved from D&D 4 to D&D Next. (Only recently started a side-campaign using D&D Next, and even though I still prefer D&D 4, the digital offerings now are definitely better.)
    I think players have a good idea of what the chances really are. But yeah It will be very interesting to see the official chances.
    I think players on this forum or reddit might, but I suspect the majority of player don't really know.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,123 Arc User
    Realistically if they add it it'll be a small note added to the list of prizes. Which most won't notice.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,221 Arc User
    No matter what gaming companies do to promote, advertise, tattoo onto the brain of players what the odds are, people will still be stupid and spend money they should not have and blame the company for it.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 3,448 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    No matter what gaming companies do to promote, advertise, tattoo onto the brain of players what the odds are, people will still be stupid and spend money they should not have and blame the company for it.

    Generally true of humans and unspecific to games. That's why people still smoke.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • captainwellscaptainwells Member Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited August 12
    The games that feature these items missed a golden opportunity once loot boxes started getting much across the board regulatory attention, by not releasing the info themselves. But it is what it is, I guess!
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,692 Arc User
    Personally, I like what Epic is doing with their loot box system. In their system, you cannot mass-open loot boxes. They have to be opened one at a time. Furthermore, you can see what is in them before you unlock them. If you don't like what it contains, then you do not have to open it. After 24 hours the contents are reshuffled. Totally removes the gambling aspect while retaining the random factor because players will have foreknowledge before committal. PWE can maximize loot box opening by making sure that there is never anything useless in a loot box.
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,123 Arc User
    except that you still have no real choice because if you want to open more than one a day or so you have to just take whatever it gave you. :p
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