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CBS/Viacom Merger Announcement Expected Soon – Star Trek Re-Unification Cited As Factor (August 8th)

lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    Nice. Wouldn't mind STO getting access to more Kelvin Timeline stuff like outfits and a couple of the ships.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,143 Arc User
    And hopefully CBS All Access stuff can get canonical stuff instead of exclusively Kelvin *ahem* things.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited July 20
    Crossovers would be good, they already set up the idea of a multiverse in TNG and maybe the change to thinking in terms of a multiverse could breath enough originality into Trek to break it loose from the self-dirivitive ruts it has been in for the last decade or two. It would also eliminate the specter of the 'at least 25% difference' paranoia if both sides of the IP split merged again.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Nice. Wouldn't mind STO getting access to more Kelvin Timeline stuff like outfits and a couple of the ships.

    Never understood why we were able to get the KT Enterprise and Vengeance, but not the Jellyfish or USS Kelvin considering that they belong to the Prime Universe.
    Crossovers would be good, they already set up the idea of a multiverse in TNG and maybe the change to thinking in terms of a multiverse could breath enough originality into Trek to break it loose from the self-dirivitive ruts it has been in for the last decade or two. It would also eliminate the specter of the 'at least 25% difference' paranoia if both sides of the IP split merged again.

    Discovery had so much potential with their Spore Drive, but its potential is hardly ever used. Discovery could have been used to explore the multiverse, but all we see is the Mirror Universe which has been done in Enterprise, TOS, and DS9. Turning Discovery into Star Trek: Sliders would have been fun since it could have shown various What If scenarios.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »

    Never understood why we were able to get the KT Enterprise and Vengeance, but not the Jellyfish or USS Kelvin considering that they belong to the Prime Universe.

    The Jellyfish would probably qualify as a small craft. And while the Kelvin is Prime... she only appeared in the Kelvin Timeline movie, and was not the hero ship. Kelvin Connie is the hero ship, and the Vengeance is a powerhouse.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »

    Never understood why we were able to get the KT Enterprise and Vengeance, but not the Jellyfish or USS Kelvin considering that they belong to the Prime Universe.

    The Jellyfish would probably qualify as a small craft. And while the Kelvin is Prime... she only appeared in the Kelvin Timeline movie, and was not the hero ship. Kelvin Connie is the hero ship, and the Vengeance is a powerhouse.

    The Jellyfish would be a small craft. The Kelvin makes far more sense to be in STO than ships from an alternate reality that no one from the Prime Universe besides Spock would ever encounter. At least, the Galaxy-X could be explained by Picard giving a report on his experience in the series finale to Starfleet and some ship designer decides to create a ship based on Picard's experiences in that alternate timeline.
  • salvation4salvation4 Member Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »

    Never understood why we were able to get the KT Enterprise and Vengeance, but not the Jellyfish or USS Kelvin considering that they belong to the Prime Universe.

    The Jellyfish would probably qualify as a small craft. And while the Kelvin is Prime... she only appeared in the Kelvin Timeline movie, and was not the hero ship. Kelvin Connie is the hero ship, and the Vengeance is a powerhouse.

    Why in GOD's name would you want that bucket of bolts?
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,575 Arc User
    edited July 20
    salvation4 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »

    Never understood why we were able to get the KT Enterprise and Vengeance, but not the Jellyfish or USS Kelvin considering that they belong to the Prime Universe.

    The Jellyfish would probably qualify as a small craft. And while the Kelvin is Prime... she only appeared in the Kelvin Timeline movie, and was not the hero ship. Kelvin Connie is the hero ship, and the Vengeance is a powerhouse.

    Why in GOD's name would you want that bucket of bolts?

    Come, Come, Mr. Scott - young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    I actually don't even have a Vengeance. *sweatdrop*
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,634 Arc User
    That's not it. The USS Kelvin was a Survey ship (read Science), and as we all know from the Edison comments, Science ships don't sell. So no need for Cryptic to worry about getting it in game. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,131 Arc User
    > @captaincelestial said:
    > And hopefully CBS All Access stuff can get canonical stuff instead of exclusively Kelvin *ahem* things.

    Discovery is Prime timeline, always has been, not only is it all canon, nothing in it is Kelvin timeline.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Discovery is Prime timeline, always has been, not only is it all canon, nothing in it is Kelvin timeline.

    It can be debated that Discovery is not part of the Prime Timeline of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager due to the extensive amount of time travel in Enterprise, but Discovery is definitely not part of the Kelvin Timeline.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 631 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    That's not it. The USS Kelvin was a Survey ship (read Science), and as we all know from the Edison comments, Science ships don't sell. So no need for Cryptic to worry about getting it in game. ;)

    Survey work does not necessarily imply a science ship. In TOS a lot of what the Enterprise did was "survey" assignments and it is a heavy cruiser, and in Wrath of Khan the Reliant was a Miranda-class light cruiser assigned to the Genesis project and was doing mainly survey work. A "survey ship" implies an explorer, the kind of job that midsize warships often did in peacetime back in sailing ship days (which Star Trek is loosely based on).
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,131 Arc User
    > @starkaos said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > Discovery is Prime timeline, always has been, not only is it all canon, nothing in it is Kelvin timeline.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > It can be debated that Discovery is not part of the Prime Timeline of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager due to the extensive amount of time travel in Enterprise, but Discovery is definitely not part of the Kelvin Timeline.

    Sigh, fans don't decide that, nothing does except what the IP owner says.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 631 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @starkaos said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > Discovery is Prime timeline, always has been, not only is it all canon, nothing in it is Kelvin timeline.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > It can be debated that Discovery is not part of the Prime Timeline of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager due to the extensive amount of time travel in Enterprise, but Discovery is definitely not part of the Kelvin Timeline.

    Sigh, fans don't decide that, nothing does except what the IP owner says.

    Since the IP owner says that Kelvin is not part of the prime timeline that means that it isn't part of the prime timeline by that measure. That also means that DSC and Kelvin are not part of the same timeline, because if they were then DSC would not be part of prime either, so it is not "just fans" saying that DSC and Kelvin are not the same timeline.

    Of course, there is also the factor that IP ownership does not negate fan reaction entirely either. They have to take it into account to some degree if they want to maintain credibility and have an audience for their stories.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Sigh, fans don't decide that, nothing does except what the IP owner says.

    You are right, fans don't decide that. Logic does. If the past is changed, then the present is changed as a result. Wiping out millions of people on Earth in Enterprise that weren't wiped out in the original timeline means that the present would be changed even if there is no indication of it in the show. Enterprise always had Daniels saying that this wasn't supposed to happen.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,716 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I actually don't even have a Vengeance. *sweatdrop*

    Me either. I hate that ship.
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,131 Arc User
    > @starkaos said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > Sigh, fans don't decide that, nothing does except what the IP owner says.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You are right, fans don't decide that. Logic does. If the past is changed, then the present is changed as a result. Wiping out millions of people on Earth in Enterprise that weren't wiped out in the original timeline means that the present would be changed even if there is no indication of it in the show. Enterprise always had Daniels saying that this wasn't supposed to happen.

    That isn't how fiction works though. This is fiction, he who owns it determins all.
  • firebeard#3273 firebeard Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    This doesn't bode well, in my opinion. Putting both IPs, Right(s) and Trademark(s) under Viacom is not fiscally responsible. Shari wants Moonves in control but Viacom wants Bikish. Since both companies are owned by National Amusements Inc. (NAI), CBS Corp. would have to increase dividends and reduce NAI's control. It was tried once before and the courts sided with NAI. This could imply a move back Star Trek's roots considering that NAI threw $1.5B at CBS Corp. to enter talks to acquire Lion's Gate Entertainment and MGM Studios.

    Hope this goes the way of the Trekkie and not the way of the investor ..
    "Victory is not determined by whos armies are strongest. It is determined by who is left standing." - Napoléon
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,575 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Sigh, fans don't decide that, nothing does except what the IP owner says.

    You are right, fans don't decide that. Logic does. If the past is changed, then the present is changed as a result. Wiping out millions of people on Earth in Enterprise that weren't wiped out in the original timeline means that the present would be changed even if there is no indication of it in the show. Enterprise always had Daniels saying that this wasn't supposed to happen.
    And how do you know they didn't die in the original timeline? We never saw Florida in TOS or TNG, and we barely saw Earth at all in VOY or DS9.

    All we know is that Daniels originated from a timeline where the event didn't happen, and yet either he's still able to access his original timeline or none of those millions were important enough to the future to eliminate his time. (And so much for "time travel always works the same way in Trek".)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
    > @firebeard#3273 said:
    > This doesn't bode well, in my opinion. Putting both IPs, Right(s) and Trademark(s) under Viacom is not fiscally responsible. Shari wants Moonves in control but Viacom wants Bikish. Since both companies are owned by National Amusements Inc. (NAI), CBS Corp. would have to increase dividends and reduce NAI's control. It was tried once before and the courts sided with NAI. This could imply a move back Star Trek's roots considering that NAI threw $1.5B at CBS Corp. to enter talks to acquire Lion's Gate Entertainment and MGM Studios.
    >
    > Hope this goes the way of the Trekkie and not the way of the investor ..

    Moonves is long gone thanks to #Metoo.
  • firebeard#3273 firebeard Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    > @lordgyor said:
    > > @firebeard#3273 said:
    > > This doesn't bode well, in my opinion. Putting both IPs, Right(s) and Trademark(s) under Viacom is not fiscally responsible. Shari wants Moonves in control but Viacom wants Bikish. Since both companies are owned by National Amusements Inc. (NAI), CBS Corp. would have to increase dividends and reduce NAI's control. It was tried once before and the courts sided with NAI. This could imply a move back Star Trek's roots considering that NAI threw $1.5B at CBS Corp. to enter talks to acquire Lion's Gate Entertainment and MGM Studios.
    > >
    > > Hope this goes the way of the Trekkie and not the way of the investor ..
    >
    > Moonves is long gone thanks to #Metoo.

    Yeah, it was a shame. He was a good CEO and a family friend of the Redstone's for more than thirty years. Did you read the memos' that Shari sent out about allegations? .. can't write that language here but Shari was peeved! She wants Moonves back in control.
    "Victory is not determined by whos armies are strongest. It is determined by who is left standing." - Napoléon
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
    I thought it was Moonves who blocked the merger in the first place so that surprised me. Honestly I'm skepticalpy he was actually guilty anyways, like usual #Metoo doesn't pass the sniff test. If he comes back I hope he does right by star trek.
  • firebeard#3273 firebeard Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    He did. Moonves knew that if CBS Corp. and Viacom re-merged it would increase the value of both companies and target them for takeover. The reason Viacom split to begin with was to devalue Viacom, who controlled Paramount Picture Studios, so SONY's investors would rescind their takeover bid.
    "Victory is not determined by whos armies are strongest. It is determined by who is left standing." - Napoléon
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 631 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    I thought it was Moonves who blocked the merger in the first place so that surprised me. Honestly I'm skepticalpy he was actually guilty anyways, like usual #Metoo doesn't pass the sniff test. If he comes back I hope he does right by star trek.

    If Moonves did come back I seriously doubt it would be a good thing for Star Trek since he was always rather vocal about his dislike of science fiction in general and Star Trek in particular. If it was not for the need of something big and splashy to jumpstart CBSAA he probably would never have greenlit DSC or any other Trek.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,242 Bug Hunter
    And hopefully CBS All Access stuff can get canonical stuff instead of exclusively Kelvin *ahem* things.

    CBS All access only has canonical things and doesn't have any KT stuff at all.
    starkaos wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Discovery is Prime timeline, always has been, not only is it all canon, nothing in it is Kelvin timeline.

    It can be debated that Discovery is not part of the Prime Timeline of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager due to the extensive amount of time travel in Enterprise, but Discovery is definitely not part of the Kelvin Timeline.

    No it can't. That's not a debate that can be made at all. Reason is your time travel fettish seems to only work on ENT and DSC and ignore all the time travel in the other shows and films. This isn't even internally consistent with your own tiered arguments so can be dismissed out of hand.
    Since the IP owner says that Kelvin is not part of the prime timeline that means that it isn't part of the prime timeline

    Kelvin Timeline. The Kelvin is a ship, a prime timeline ship that spawned the name for the alternate timeline due to it's destruction.
    by that measure. That also means that DSC and Kelvin are not part of the same timeline,

    Obviously as Pike is still alive in DSC as he goes onto TOS whereas he's dead in the KT.
    because if they were then DSC would not be part of prime either,

    What!?!??! That does not follow on from any of what you just wrote. It's directly contradicts the last point you made in fact.
    so it is not "just fans" saying that DSC and Kelvin are not the same timeline.

    Correct, the people saying DSC is the prime timeline and the KT is the KT are correct because that is also CBS' position. That's what azrael605 is saying. I assume you quoted his post to agree with him (despite not being able to agree with yourself) rather than quoting starkaos' post to correct their continual misunderstanding of how the franchise works.
    Of course, there is also the factor that IP ownership does not negate fan reaction entirely either. They have to take it into account to some degree if they want to maintain credibility and have an audience for their stories.

    Their concerns are the protection of their own IPs (the reason canon exists in the first place) and to generate money. That's it.​​
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  • warmonger360warmonger360 Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    And hopefully CBS All Access stuff can get canonical stuff instead of exclusively Kelvin *ahem* things.

    no, what you'll see is jjtrek becoming canon and TOS will be dumped. I can see this MERger being a mistake
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    I don't see that. The Kelvin Timeline is no different than having the Mirror Universe around. Its not going to overwrite anything. It never has.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Discovery is Prime timeline, always has been, not only is it all canon, nothing in it is Kelvin timeline.

    It can be debated that Discovery is not part of the Prime Timeline of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager due to the extensive amount of time travel in Enterprise, but Discovery is definitely not part of the Kelvin Timeline.

    No it can't. That's not a debate that can be made at all. Reason is your time travel fettish seems to only work on ENT and DSC and ignore all the time travel in the other shows and films. This isn't even internally consistent with your own tiered arguments so can be dismissed out of hand.

    So you actually think that killing millions of people during the Xindi incident wouldn't cause any change to the timeline when they weren't supposed to die in such an incident? With millions of people dying in one incident, then there is no way to know which changes to the timeline have happened, but the effect would be severe. Billions of people would never be born and Billions other would exist that weren't supposed to exist. Technologies would be delayed or be available at an early date. Certain events would never happen while other new ones would be created.

    To think that the people, technology, and events in the other Star Trek series wouldn't be affected by killing millions of people during the Xindi incident is incredibly short sighted. Daniels' timeline has changed immensely from the actions of Enterprise. So either Daniels' timeline is a previous timeline before the events of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager where the Xindi incident happened in those shows or Daniels' Timeline is the timeline of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager where the Xindi incident never happened in those shows.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,644 Arc User
    Considering the fact that the finale had Riker and Troi in their TNG uniforms, about to deal with the Pegasus...
    I'd say the Xindi event happened.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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