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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,640 Arc User
    Hesitation?
    She was stopped by Georgiou. She literally gave the order to fire, and was immediately countered by her CO.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    edited July 12
    starkaos wrote: »
    And the Season Finale made sure that the inhabitants of the Star Trek Universe knew next to nothing about anything in Discovery since everything about the Discovery and her crew has been classified. Unlike every other Star Trek series where most of their adventures become mandatory reading for Starfleet Academy. One of the problems with Discovery is that it is too focused on the Klingon War or the Seven Signals/Control that we don't experience what the 2250s Federation is like while DS9 and Voyager was great for knowing what the 2370s Federation and the Delta Quadrant was like.

    And not one single iota of what you wrote here has anything to do with what I was replying to. There was no lore to "mangle" before Discovery, so claiming it is "mangling the lore" is incorrect.
    Burnham created hesitation with her actions which led to the war with the Klingons. Sacrificing the Shenzhou or carrying out the Vulcan Hello would have at least temporarily halted the war from getting started. T'Kuvma could have always found another reason for starting his war or someone else could have started the war, but they wouldn't have been able to use the excuse of hesitation.

    There was no hesitation, nor was she sacrificing the Shenzhou. Where you're getting that from I have no idea and quite frankly, I don't believe you even watched the episode.

    You also have no idea what would have happened had she been able to execute her plan. Anything could have happened. From what we already know, the Klingons would have seen it as a show of strength from the Federation and decided to leave the area and not start a fight. Does no one remember the scene in ST VI: TUC where the CNC says the Klingons would "think twice about attacking the Enterprise" under Kirk's command? The Klingons know Kirk. They knew he was shoot first, ask questions later kind of guy. They respected that strength.

    We will never know what would have happened. All we can go by is what the story tells us, which ultimately acknowledged Burnham was right.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,500 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    We will never know what would have happened. All we can go by is what the story tells us, which ultimately acknowledged Burnham was right.
    That is not what the story tells us, actually. As you said, we have no idea what would have happened if she could have "sent" the Vulcan Hello. Maybe it would have worked, or it would easily be spun by the Klingons as justification to start the war, or something else entirely.

    The only thing the story tells us is that Burnham found a way to redeem herself in the eyes of her peers and herself for her attempted mutiny, allowing her mentor to die and her failure to avert the Klingon War.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    And the Season Finale made sure that the inhabitants of the Star Trek Universe knew next to nothing about anything in Discovery since everything about the Discovery and her crew has been classified. Unlike every other Star Trek series where most of their adventures become mandatory reading for Starfleet Academy. One of the problems with Discovery is that it is too focused on the Klingon War or the Seven Signals/Control that we don't experience what the 2250s Federation is like while DS9 and Voyager was great for knowing what the 2370s Federation and the Delta Quadrant was like.

    And not one single iota of what you wrote here has anything to do with what I was replying to. There was no lore to "mangle" before Discovery, so claiming it is "mangling the lore" is incorrect.

    And I never said anything about mangling the lore. As far as the majority of people in the 2250s Federation is concerned, they know next to nothing about what happened in Discovery. It would be interesting to see if the Discovery crew's entire life was classified or if only their lives after they joined the Discovery is classified with fake histories to deal with their 'deaths.'
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,704 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    And the Season Finale made sure that the inhabitants of the Star Trek Universe knew next to nothing about anything in Discovery since everything about the Discovery and her crew has been classified. Unlike every other Star Trek series where most of their adventures become mandatory reading for Starfleet Academy. One of the problems with Discovery is that it is too focused on the Klingon War or the Seven Signals/Control that we don't experience what the 2250s Federation is like while DS9 and Voyager was great for knowing what the 2370s Federation and the Delta Quadrant was like.

    And not one single iota of what you wrote here has anything to do with what I was replying to. There was no lore to "mangle" before Discovery, so claiming it is "mangling the lore" is incorrect.

    And I never said anything about mangling the lore. As far as the majority of people in the 2250s Federation is concerned, they know next to nothing about what happened in Discovery. It would be interesting to see if the Discovery crew's entire life was classified or if only their lives after they joined the Discovery is classified with fake histories to deal with their 'deaths.'

    Hopefully they'll address this in Season 3.
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,640 Arc User
    If anything about Discovery's existance is known... its probably just that she was a research ship, and she was lost with all hands. Simple as that.

    They don't have to classify the ship's existance, just what she was doing. It would be kinda like how in Stargate they still had personnel files on the members of SG-1, but no specifics on what they do unless you have security clearance. And Cheyenne Mountain exists, but there's no public record of the existance of the Stargate or Stargate Command.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,123 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > starkaos wrote: »
    >
    > valoreah wrote: »
    >
    > starkaos wrote: »
    >
    > And the Season Finale made sure that the inhabitants of the Star Trek Universe knew next to nothing about anything in Discovery since everything about the Discovery and her crew has been classified. Unlike every other Star Trek series where most of their adventures become mandatory reading for Starfleet Academy. One of the problems with Discovery is that it is too focused on the Klingon War or the Seven Signals/Control that we don't experience what the 2250s Federation is like while DS9 and Voyager was great for knowing what the 2370s Federation and the Delta Quadrant was like.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And not one single iota of what you wrote here has anything to do with what I was replying to. There was no lore to "mangle" before Discovery, so claiming it is "mangling the lore" is incorrect.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And I never said anything about mangling the lore. As far as the majority of people in the 2250s Federation is concerned, they know next to nothing about what happened in Discovery. It would be interesting to see if the Discovery crew's entire life was classified or if only their lives after they joined the Discovery is classified with fake histories to deal with their 'deaths.'
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hopefully they'll address this in Season 3.

    why would they? season 3 takes place 950 years in the future there is a fair chance that the Federation doesn't even exist anymore. Absolutely guaranteed though there is one person in the 25th Century who knows all about discovery that being is Jean-Luc Picard the only living being to have mind melded with both sarek and Spock. Though again that will not affect anything centuries after Picard is dead.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    why would they? season 3 takes place 950 years in the future there is a fair chance that the Federation doesn't even exist anymore. Absolutely guaranteed though there is one person in the 25th Century who knows all about discovery that being is Jean-Luc Picard the only living being to have mind melded with both sarek and Spock. Though again that will not affect anything centuries after Picard is dead.

    Discovery could make an appearance in the new Picard series, not the ship, but the lore. So we might have not seen the last of the Mycellial Network even if Discovery never uses their Spore Drive again.

    Although, we can only say at least part of Season 3 takes place 950 years in the future since we don't know where or when the Discovery crew went after abandoning the Discovery according to Calypso.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,123 Arc User
    > @starkaos said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > why would they? season 3 takes place 950 years in the future there is a fair chance that the Federation doesn't even exist anymore. Absolutely guaranteed though there is one person in the 25th Century who knows all about discovery that being is Jean-Luc Picard the only living being to have mind melded with both sarek and Spock. Though again that will not affect anything centuries after Picard is dead.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Discovery could make an appearance in the new Picard series, not the ship, but the lore. So we might have not seen the last of the Mycellial Network even if Discovery never uses their Spore Drive again.
    >
    > Although, we can only say at least part of Season 3 takes place 950 years in the future since we don't know where or when the Discovery crew went after abandoning the Discovery according to Calypso.

    We don't know that they abandoned it at all. My theory is that after the AI emerges from the ship's computer Georgiou uses the ship to return to the 23rd century, as she has to in order to be in the Section 31 show, hiding it far outside of 23rd century Federation space, where it waits for the crew to return sometime after Craft comes and goes.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,704 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @reyan01 said:
    > starkaos wrote: »
    >
    > valoreah wrote: »
    >
    > starkaos wrote: »
    >
    > And the Season Finale made sure that the inhabitants of the Star Trek Universe knew next to nothing about anything in Discovery since everything about the Discovery and her crew has been classified. Unlike every other Star Trek series where most of their adventures become mandatory reading for Starfleet Academy. One of the problems with Discovery is that it is too focused on the Klingon War or the Seven Signals/Control that we don't experience what the 2250s Federation is like while DS9 and Voyager was great for knowing what the 2370s Federation and the Delta Quadrant was like.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And not one single iota of what you wrote here has anything to do with what I was replying to. There was no lore to "mangle" before Discovery, so claiming it is "mangling the lore" is incorrect.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And I never said anything about mangling the lore. As far as the majority of people in the 2250s Federation is concerned, they know next to nothing about what happened in Discovery. It would be interesting to see if the Discovery crew's entire life was classified or if only their lives after they joined the Discovery is classified with fake histories to deal with their 'deaths.'
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hopefully they'll address this in Season 3.

    why would they? season 3 takes place 950 years in the future there is a fair chance that the Federation doesn't even exist anymore. Absolutely guaranteed though there is one person in the 25th Century who knows all about discovery that being is Jean-Luc Picard the only living being to have mind melded with both sarek and Spock. Though again that will not affect anything centuries after Picard is dead.

    That isn't to say it's impossible that, at some point, someone amongst the Discovery crew lets curiosity get the better of them and accesses a historical database to see what, if anything, history says happened to the Discovery and her crew - and perhaps the families they left behind.
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    edited July 16
    The only thing the story tells us is that Burnham found a way to redeem herself in the eyes of her peers and herself for her attempted mutiny, allowing her mentor to die and her failure to avert the Klingon War.

    She didn't "allow" Georgiou to die. She actively tried to prevent it. It also was not her failure alone to avert the Klingon war. More than Burnham, that responsibility falls squarely on Starfleet.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,123 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > > @reyan01 said:
    > > starkaos wrote: »
    > >
    > > valoreah wrote: »
    > >
    > > starkaos wrote: »
    > >
    > > And the Season Finale made sure that the inhabitants of the Star Trek Universe knew next to nothing about anything in Discovery since everything about the Discovery and her crew has been classified. Unlike every other Star Trek series where most of their adventures become mandatory reading for Starfleet Academy. One of the problems with Discovery is that it is too focused on the Klingon War or the Seven Signals/Control that we don't experience what the 2250s Federation is like while DS9 and Voyager was great for knowing what the 2370s Federation and the Delta Quadrant was like.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > And not one single iota of what you wrote here has anything to do with what I was replying to. There was no lore to "mangle" before Discovery, so claiming it is "mangling the lore" is incorrect.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > And I never said anything about mangling the lore. As far as the majority of people in the 2250s Federation is concerned, they know next to nothing about what happened in Discovery. It would be interesting to see if the Discovery crew's entire life was classified or if only their lives after they joined the Discovery is classified with fake histories to deal with their 'deaths.'
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Hopefully they'll address this in Season 3.
    >
    > why would they? season 3 takes place 950 years in the future there is a fair chance that the Federation doesn't even exist anymore. Absolutely guaranteed though there is one person in the 25th Century who knows all about discovery that being is Jean-Luc Picard the only living being to have mind melded with both sarek and Spock. Though again that will not affect anything centuries after Picard is dead.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That isn't to say it's impossible that, at some point, someone amongst the Discovery crew lets curiosity get the better of them and accesses a historical database to see what, if anything, history says happened to the Discovery and her crew - and perhaps the families they left behind.

    They are classified under the temporal prime directive, no database will list them, and they went to Teralysium over 50 thousand light years from Earth.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    They are classified under the temporal prime directive, no database will list them, and they went to Teralysium over 50 thousand light years from Earth.

    Discovery being classified has to do with the risk of people violating the Temporal Prime Directive and causing immense damage to the present rather than Discovery and its crew directly violating the Temporal Prime Directive. Classifying Discovery and its crew is about protecting the Temporal Prime Directive from individuals from violating it and not about Discovery being classified under the Temporal Prime Directive. The Temporal Prime Directive is all about minimizing interaction with historical events.
    Regulation 157, Section Three, requires Starfleet officers to abstain from participating in historical events.

    Any residual trace or knowledge of Discovery's data, or the time suit, offers a foothold for those who might not see how critical, how deeply critical, that directive is.

    Therefore, to insure the Federation never finds itself facing the same danger, all officers remaining with knowledge of these events must be ordered never to speak of Discovery, its spore drive, or her crew again.
    Under penalty of treason.

    As far as Discovery's crew being stuck on Terralysium, we have to wait for Season 3 to see. They might head back to Federation space before leaving the Discovery behind. There is also the possibility that Discovery will 'ride off into the sunset' and Season 3 will feature a different crew like Captain Pike and the Enterprise with zero mention about the Discovery and her crew.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,123 Arc User
    > @starkaos said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > They are classified under the temporal prime directive, no database will list them, and they went to Teralysium over 50 thousand light years from Earth.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Discovery being classified has to do with the risk of people violating the Temporal Prime Directive and causing immense damage to the present rather than Discovery and its crew directly violating the Temporal Prime Directive. Classifying Discovery and its crew is about protecting the Temporal Prime Directive from individuals from violating it and not about Discovery being classified under the Temporal Prime Directive. The Temporal Prime Directive is all about minimizing interaction with historical events.
    > Regulation 157, Section Three, requires Starfleet officers to abstain from participating in historical events.
    >
    > Any residual trace or knowledge of Discovery's data, or the time suit, offers a foothold for those who might not see how critical, how deeply critical, that directive is.
    >
    > Therefore, to insure the Federation never finds itself facing the same danger, all officers remaining with knowledge of these events must be ordered never to speak of Discovery, its spore drive, or her crew again.
    > Under penalty of treason.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > As far as Discovery's crew being stuck on Terralysium, we have to wait for Season 3 to see. They might head back to Federation space before leaving the Discovery behind. There is also the possibility that Discovery will 'ride off into the sunset' and Season 3 will feature a different crew like Captain Pike and the Enterprise with zero mention about the Discovery and her crew.

    Firstly, you should watch the season finale and pay attention. Spock specifically states that stopping the Extinction Level Event at Teralysium was done specifically so Discovery had a safe haven in the future. It was also stated that all information on Discovery is classified under penalty of Treason for the specific reason of protecting the timeline, not the crew, as far as Starfleet is concerned Discovery didn't go anywhere, it was destroyed with all hands in the only records that mention it at all.

    Season 3 will not be following any other ship either as has been repeatedly stated by everyone working on the show. Season 3 is filming right now by the way..
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    We don't know how long Discovery is going to stay on Terralysium or how long they are going to stay in the 33rd Century. All we do know is that they will leave Discovery behind at some point in time since the whole reason in going to the future was protecting the Sphere Data from Control and other entities that might abuse the data. Without Control menacing the galaxy, then there is no point in Terralysium being a safe haven for Discovery. As a ghost ship, the chances of some villain discovering the Sphere Data is reduced while if Discovery keeps on going on adventures, then it is just a matter of time before some villain gets the Sphere Data for their nefarious purposes. Also, Star Trek: Discovery doesn't need the USS Discovery since we have already had the USS Shenzhou as the main ship for the first episodes.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,123 Arc User
    Well I have already stated my theory about how and why Discovery will be temporarily hidden, and I'm not going over it again now.

    That aside, and addressing only facts known from the show, with a side of statements from the people making it. In Calypso the Discovery was in perfect shape and had a brand new shuttle on board. At the end of season 2 Discovery is barely holding together and has no shuttles on board at all, Spock took the last one. So a significant time has to pass, along with a return trip to the past to obtain a brand new 23rd century shuttle, or the shuttle comes from the past to spur Georgiou's return to the 23rd century for the S31 show.

    Season 3 will not be following Pike, Anson is not presently employed on Trek, he may be returning at some point, but not on Discovery. The Discovery crew, aside from Georgiou, will not be returning to the 23rd century, this is confirmed by the production team.

    The only being that needed to be kept from the Sphere Data was the Control AI, they picked the time they did because it was after Control had taken over and wiped all life from the galaxy. By taking what Control needed to beyond its era they made it imossible for Control to obtain it. After the AI Zohrah emerges from the Sphere Data on board Discovery no one else is going to be able to take it either.

    Now just to clarify something, the only reason they had to time travel was because the AI's birth had already started, Discovery refused to die, self destruct went offline and the ship turned on its own shields to prevent Enterprise from scuttling it. This is why I have the theory I do.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,090 Arc User
    Got summary?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,546 Arc User
    edited August 8
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,090 Arc User
    got a summary of what that used to be?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,123 Arc User
    > @markhawkman said:
    > got a summary of what that used to be?

    Most likely some poorly thought out propaganda as full of lies as everything else peters does.
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