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Lootbox Lawsuit and Legislation

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  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,206 Arc User
    Legislation will stop the kids becoming addicted to the gambling methods used by lootboxes. In the UK alone studied have shown that in 2 years (around the time Overwatch released coincidentally enough) the amount of child gamblers has more than quadrupled. Studies show there appears to be a link between the psychological manipulation used by lootboxes and the children's addiction to gambling.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    westx211 wrote: »
    Legislation will stop the kids becoming addicted to the gambling methods used by lootboxes. In the UK alone studied have shown that in 2 years (around the time Overwatch released coincidentally enough) the amount of child gamblers has more than quadrupled. Studies show there appears to be a link between the psychological manipulation used by lootboxes and the children's addiction to gambling.
    I'd need to see those "studies", and examine their methodology - sounds like a cart-and-horse problem to me, similar to the "studies" showing that pot was a "gateway drug" (examined the histories of drug users, found many of them had used pot, failed to either account for the concept that the pot use may have merely been an early manifestation of the addictive personality type or follow up on other pot smokers to see how many of them moved on to harder drugs, and how many either stopped at pot or dropped the habit altogether).
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements, and we want legal measures taken to ensure that games - including possibly STO - can't advertise or offer these options to children.

    But does anyone on the STO forums actually know of children that play STO?
    If they do, do these children "gamble" their money (or that of their parents, more likely) on stuff. Did some of these kids shown signs of a gambling addiction in regards to STO (not Candy Crush or whatever) yet ?

    Why is the topic particularly important to people when it comes to ships like the Temporal Constitution, the Crossfield Class or the Miracle Worker Constitution? Are these really the ships that Cryptic uses to "prey" on our innocent children? Children whose parents probably didn't even exist when the Constitution was shown on TV screens the first, second or third time. Children that would need to have access to CBS All Access (in the US) or Netflix (almost everywhere else) to even watch Discovery, a show that I believe warns explicitly that its aimed at mature audience?

    The child being "preyed" on with these lockbox ships are mostly likely the inner child of adult Star Trek fans, who get nostalgic for their old hero ship or are all excited about finally having a new Star Trek installment on their screens at home again.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    But does anyone on the STO forums actually know of children that play STO?

    While STO may have fewer minors in it's playerbase (I obviously don't have access to those demographics so idk) lootboxes are an industry wide problem, and there are plenty of games with lootboxes that have a significant amount of players who are minors. Battlefront 2 was the game that really brought lootboxes into the spotlight for non-gamers (though EA quickly removed them, probably because of Disney), and the FIFA games apparently make a fortune off of lootboxes (not much of a soccer fan so I've never played them).
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    well, EA has apparently found a new way to bilk money in case they have to ditch gambleboxes...one of their newest sports games has TV ads in place of loading screens...actual...TV...ads​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,206 Arc User
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    >
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    You haven't bought a booster pack for Magic lately, have you, West?
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    what gambling? you mean those minigames in the biggest city of each region that you had to do to acquire certain TMs?​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    what gambling? you mean those minigames in the biggest city of each region that you had to do to acquire certain TMs?​​

    I think he means the gaming corner or whatever it was called, in the gen 1 games and their gen 3 remakes they had slot machines in them, I don't remember what the other generations had cause after I discovered GameShark I didn't worry about that part anymore, lol.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    yes, those are the minigames i was talking about​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,206 Arc User
    Studies have shown that trading card packs are vaguely similar to gambling, but not however as psychologically manipulative as lootboxes and actual gambling. After all, card packs don't shoot out confetti and show bright or flashing colors telling you or everyone you won.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    no, but people still freak out when they see a good card...as i frequently see on SimplyUnlucky's channel​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,206 Arc User
    Yes, but that's 100% based off the person themselves. The reason why lootboxes include those flashy effects is the same reason casinos do similar things. To vulnerable people it triggers endorphins and other pleasurable reactions that are usually why gamblers get addicted to the act in the first place.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    and you don't think the flashy effect of holographic cards does the EXACT SAME THING?​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    westx211 wrote: »
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    You know, you keep referencing these "studies". I haven't seen any studies showing the results you say. Would you mind linking them? Or perhaps just the abstracts?
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,206 Arc User
    > @markhawkman said:
    > westx211 wrote: »
    >
    > > @markhawkman said:
    > > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    > >
    > > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    > >
    > > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...
    >
    > You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    >
    >
    >
    > Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...

    Yeah except if you actually played those games, all games were removed from the game corner in let's go evee and pikachu. Since around gen 4 Gamefreak has heavily toned down or outright removed the feature in relevant games
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    westx211 wrote: »
    Feh. Politicians.

    And examining the study, the political interpretation is indeed a cart-and-horse affair. The study did not find that lockboxes promoted gambling behavior in children; children were not studied. It did find that in those adults who had gambling issues, usage of lockboxes roughly correlated with usage of other gambling methods. In other words, the interpretation you suggest puts the cart before the horse, assuming that the lockboxes led to the gambling addiction rather than the other way around.

    (The part about kids just falls under the heading of "assumption of facts not in evidence".)

    It also mentioned the subjects' ratings for "Internet Gaming Disorder", which is hardly a recognized psychological or neurological condition, so there may have been a bit of assumption of results there too.

    Now, find me a couple more studies replicating these results, because the soul of scientific research is replicability. (There's a reason the comedic science journal is called The Journal of Irreproducible Results.)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    westx211 wrote: »
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...

    They took out the slot mechanic though in newer games. I say newer, I think I it was HG/SS and that was about a decade ago... gods, I'm old.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    westx211 wrote: »
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...
    They took out the slot mechanic though in newer games. I say newer, I think I it was HG/SS and that was about a decade ago... gods, I'm old.
    Looking it up again it appears that it started in gen 7, and only because of the way age ratings are handled.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    westx211 wrote: »
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...
    They took out the slot mechanic though in newer games. I say newer, I think I it was HG/SS and that was about a decade ago... gods, I'm old.
    Looking it up again it appears that it started in gen 7, and only because of the way age ratings are handled.

    There's a Gen 7!? I gave up at Gen 4 and was vaguely aware of Gen 5.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    westx211 wrote: »
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...
    They took out the slot mechanic though in newer games. I say newer, I think I it was HG/SS and that was about a decade ago... gods, I'm old.
    Looking it up again it appears that it started in gen 7, and only because of the way age ratings are handled.

    There's a Gen 7!? I gave up at Gen 4 and was vaguely aware of Gen 5.​​

    Gen 8 is coming out this year (Pokemon Sword and Pokemon Shield)
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    westx211 wrote: »
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...
    They took out the slot mechanic though in newer games. I say newer, I think I it was HG/SS and that was about a decade ago... gods, I'm old.
    Looking it up again it appears that it started in gen 7, and only because of the way age ratings are handled.

    There's a Gen 7!? I gave up at Gen 4 and was vaguely aware of Gen 5.​​

    I don't get it? What is this Gen [number] stuff? Pretend I have no clue about any of this. Are these different game editions / rules versions? Is it a computer game, or a collectible game, or something else entirely?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,267 Arc User
    At school we used to play a game called 'Jingies', where each player would throw a coin at a wall, and whomever got closest would win the lot.

    Out of all the people I knew at school, perhaps 2 of those people became addicted to gambling in later life; which is why I think people are predisposed towards gambling (similar to alcoholism running in families), rather than the game/lockbox/trading cards itself creating the problem.

    Kids still play 'Jingies' in school - and what was once looked down on when I was a kid, is now praised as 'socialising in fresh air, instead of staring at your phone'.

    (When we used to play it, the teachers would 'raid' us, scoop up all the cash and put us on detention).

    Funny how things change.
  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    I don't get it? What is this Gen [number] stuff? Pretend I have no clue about any of this. Are these different game editions / rules versions? Is it a computer game, or a collectible game, or something else entirely?

    The Pokemon games are divided into generations, a bit like jet fighters (only comparison I could come up with off the top of my head). So Pokemon Yellow, Blue and Red versions were Gen 1 (Yellow being released specifically for the GameBoy Color. That was my first Pokemon game); Gold, Silver and Crystal were Gen 2 (missed that one); Gen 3 was Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald (as well as FireRed and LeafGreen, which were rereleases of the Japanese Gen 1 games Red and Green for the GameBoy Advanced); Gen 4 was Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum for the DS (Diamond was actually the first Pokemon game I actually completed); Gen 5 was Black and White, as well as Black 2 and White 2; Gen 6 was X and Y (plus Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, which were rereleases of the Gen 3 games for the 3DS); and finally Gen 7 was Sun and Moon, plus their ultra versions, and Let's Go Eevie/Pikachu (which are essentially rereleases of Pokemon Yellow from Gen 1, but updated for the Switch with some features from Pokemon Go). Gen 8 is Sword and Shield.

    And I haven't even included the non-core games, because this was confusing enough to work out with just the core games reading from a wiki article!

    Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokémon_(video_game_series)
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    westx211 wrote: »
    > @markhawkman said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > I can totally see that we might want to avoid kids having easy access to games that contain gambling elements,
    >
    > If you don't limit it to gambling with real money, there's a MASSIVE assortment, the original Pokémon(and pretty much every sequel) for one example...

    You ever notice how they stopped including that in newer games? It's because they knew it was gambling and they were afraid of how it was affecting kids.
    Lol, no. Celadon Game corner is in all games where you visit Celadon City. Including the Gen 7 games Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee. There are similar locations in Goldenrod City, Mauville, and Veilstone...
    They took out the slot mechanic though in newer games. I say newer, I think I it was HG/SS and that was about a decade ago... gods, I'm old.
    Looking it up again it appears that it started in gen 7, and only because of the way age ratings are handled.

    There's a Gen 7!? I gave up at Gen 4 and was vaguely aware of Gen 5.

    Gen 8 is coming out this year (Pokemon Sword and Pokemon Shield)

    It's come a long way from 1996.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
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