What does prequel fatigue have to do with the false assumption that we know everything before TOS? A lot of the problems with Discovery could have been easily avoided by making it a sequel. There is no need to explain why the Spore Drive or advanced holographic systems doesn't exist in any other Star Trek series if it is a sequel.
Well... we already have explanations now as to why we don't. Spore Drive not only requires a living component to actually work, which skirts legality in the Federation, it also has the capability of inadvertantly jumping to another universe entirely with the possibility of not coming back as well as some minor Time Travel. And the holographic communications... well we saw what happened to Enterprise at the start of Season 2. It practically fried her. Pike ordered that system "ripped out" of Enterprise. If that kind of damage could be caused by an unknown phenomenon, just think of the chaos that could ensue if an adversary learned of that weakness and exploited it.
Honestly its no differen than why we don't see Genesis after Star Trek II, Federation Transwarp after Star Trek III, or even the Pegasus Phase Cloak after TNG. And since the Spore Drive was already a classified research project... it was even easier to bury after it was dropped.
And a sequel doesn't require these explanations. Remove the Temporal Cold War and Enterprise is how a prequel is supposed to be done not introduce new technology and have to explain why we never saw it before.
Yeah really, I feel the need to remind people which, by out-of-universe chronology, Captain of the Enterprise used holograms on his ship first.... Kirk.
And a sequel doesn't require these explanations. Remove the Temporal Cold War and Enterprise is how a prequel is supposed to be done not introduce new technology and have to explain why we never saw it before.
Once again, this is proceeding from a false assumption that we know exactly what happened in every moment of history pre TOS. We don't. I can assure you, a whole lot of stuff happened between ENT and TOS that you have not hear about yet.
A whole lot of things happened with the Enterprise B and C post Generations to pre-TNG. We know diddly about the adventures of the Enterprise B beyond the Nexus event and squat about the Enterprise C other than it was destroyed at Narendra III.
There are innumerable untold stories out there happening in the Trek universe outside of our favorite characters. They just haven't been written yet.
We know a whole lot about those eras, except that it's all considered Beta Canon. I for one have no desire to see those stories overwritten by something else.
We know a whole lot about those eras, except that it's all considered Beta Canon. I for one have no desire to see those stories overwritten by something else.
Not really no. Events from Books really have no impact on events from shows. Hell... novelizations of episodes or movies don't always follow the movie or episode 100%. The Novelization of the 09 Star Trek actually had Spock beat information out of a Romulan rather than a mind meld, which conflicts with what we saw in the movie.
Anyways... Beta can reference, but cannot influence. So Beta Canon can't actually be a definitive source of events.
And a sequel doesn't require these explanations. Remove the Temporal Cold War and Enterprise is how a prequel is supposed to be done not introduce new technology and have to explain why we never saw it before.
Once again, this is proceeding from a false assumption that we know exactly what happened in every moment of history pre TOS. We don't. I can assure you, a whole lot of stuff happened between ENT and TOS that you have not hear about yet.
A whole lot of things happened with the Enterprise B and C post Generations to pre-TNG. We know diddly about the adventures of the Enterprise B beyond the Nexus event and squat about the Enterprise C other than it was destroyed at Narendra III.
There are innumerable untold stories out there happening in the Trek universe outside of our favorite characters. They just haven't been written yet.
And no one has made a false assumption that we know exactly what happened in every moment of history pre-TOS. So I don't understand why you need to keep repeating this pointless fact for more prequels. The vast majority of stories in Discovery could have been told in a sequel.
Some people are tired of all Star Trek for over 15 years has been prequels. I want to know what happened after Nemesis not what happened 10 years before TOS. The only prequels that I would want is with Gary Seven, the Eugenics War, and World War III since they would be far more entertaining than Discovery.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Some people are tired of all Star Trek for over 15 years has been prequels. I want to know what happened after Nemesis not what happened 10 years before TOS. The only prequels that I would want is with Gary Seven, the Eugenics War, and World War III since they would be far more entertaining than Discovery.
"some people" well, that appears to be a vocal minority. I mean, there's no reason other than people LIKING Discovery to create Discovery characters and run around wearing Discovery uniforms. But they do it anyways. And apparently enough people watch Discovery for CBS to consider it a success.
While Captain Pike has been an outstanding highlight this season I'm not sure about his own series, I'm sure it would be very enjoyable but I feel it may be oversaturating with the TOS era. What with DSC and S31, the less said about the reboot films the better, I would just prefer to see a more diversified range of content being put out.
That said 1 or 7 guest appearances by Pike in the Section 31 show (possibly even the event of his accident depending on the setting) would be more than welcome.
I've always thought an anthology elseworlds style series like a live action Myriad Universe would be cool which could show a timeline where Pike is still commanding the Enterprise long after his original time.
Didn’t they have him crippled already? I’ve seen there are YT vids showing thumbnails of being in the life support chair.......years early but they’ve made their contempt for canon clear enough that it is not surprising.
Didn’t they have him crippled already? I’ve seen there are YT vids showing thumbnails of being in the life support chair.......years early but they’ve made their contempt for canon clear enough that it is not surprising.
No that was just a vision of his future. Sorry no canon violation here.
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
So if it is not a reboot, then what is it? It is definitely not a prequel and only a few minutes of Star Trek 2009 can be considered as a sequel for Spock and the outcome of one planet. So the vast majority of the Kelvin movies can't be considered as part of a sequel.
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
So if it is not a reboot, then what is it? It is definitely not a prequel and only a few minutes of Star Trek 2009 can be considered as a sequel for Spock and the outcome of one planet. So the vast majority of the Kelvin movies can't be considered as part of a sequel.
It is a series of mostly unconnected films with slight links to the previous series. In the same way DS9 was only slightly connected to TNG or VGR was only slightly connected to DS9.
They are not sequels in the same way no other series has been a sequel (except for TAS and the TOS films for TOS and the TNG films for TNG and they are not prequels because they do not come before any pre-existing entry in the franchise.
Technically ENT isn't even a prequel to TOS, it's just a show made later and set before. DSC might be closer to an actual prequel but so far it mainly ties into The Cage rather than TOS proper.
Anyway, point is it's not a reboot because it's the same canon. I know you have this weird obsession with time travel but it's utterly irrelevant here because the timeline or whatever has never affected if a show or film is canon thus far in the franchise and does not here.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on.
It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled.
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on.
It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled.
It is both in continuity and the same canon as the rest of the franchise. It is in no way a reboot despite what may or may not have been spitballed early in production. Spitballed by a director who doesn't have that sort of power working for a studio that has a licence and does not own the IP.
It is also no more a moot point than TOS or ENT as both of those where cancelled.
And it's the Kelvin Timeline not kelvinverse. The name refers to both the series and the setting of the majority of the films, neither of which involve alternate universes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on.
It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled.
It is both in continuity and the same canon as the rest of the franchise. It is in no way a reboot despite what may or may not have been spitballed early in production. Spitballed by a director who doesn't have that sort of power working for a studio that has a licence and does not own the IP.
It is also no more a moot point than TOS or ENT as both of those where cancelled.
And it's the Kelvin Timeline not kelvinverse. The name refers to both the series and the setting of the majority of the films, neither of which involve alternate universes.
Call it what you will, the point of the Kelvinverse was to retell and retread TOS, ergo a reboot. It's a dead continuity anyway so little point arguing about it and it is meandering quite far off the topic of a prospective Pike series.
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on.
It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled.
It is both in continuity and the same canon as the rest of the franchise. It is in no way a reboot despite what may or may not have been spitballed early in production. Spitballed by a director who doesn't have that sort of power working for a studio that has a licence and does not own the IP.
It is also no more a moot point than TOS or ENT as both of those where cancelled.
And it's the Kelvin Timeline not kelvinverse. The name refers to both the series and the setting of the majority of the films, neither of which involve alternate universes.
Call it what you will, the point of the Kelvinverse was to retell and retread TOS, ergo a reboot. It's a dead continuity anyway so little point arguing about it and it is meandering quite far off the topic of a prospective Pike series.
That may be the point of this 'Kelvinverse' but the point of the Kelvin Timeline is to tell the story of the characters of TOS in a new setting, not the stories of TOS in a new setting.
If that's a reboot then Yesterday's Enterprise is a reboot. In a Mirror Darkly is a reboot. Endgame is a reboot.
Artan, the Kelvin Timeline explicitly takes place in an alternate universe. This is even mentioned in dialog in the 2009 film.
No. It's called an 'alternate reality' in the film not an 'alternate universe'. That term is used in DSC, to describe the Terran and Prime universes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @artan42 said: > nrobbiec wrote: » > > artan42 wrote: » > > nrobbiec wrote: » > > artan42 wrote: » > > nrobbiec wrote: » > > The less said about the reboot films the better, > > > > > There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy. > > > > > From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on. > > It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled. > > > > > > It is both in continuity and the same canon as the rest of the franchise. It is in no way a reboot despite what may or may not have been spitballed early in production. Spitballed by a director who doesn't have that sort of power working for a studio that has a licence and does not own the IP. > > It is also no more a moot point than TOS or ENT as both of those where cancelled. > > And it's the Kelvin Timeline not kelvinverse. The name refers to both the series and the setting of the majority of the films, neither of which involve alternate universes. > > > > > Call it what you will, the point of the Kelvinverse was to retell and retread TOS, ergo a reboot. It's a dead continuity anyway so little point arguing about it and it is meandering quite far off the topic of a prospective Pike series. > > > > > That may be the point of this 'Kelvinverse' but the point of the Kelvin Timeline is to tell the story of the characters of TOS in a new setting, not the stories of TOS in a new setting. > If that's a reboot then Yesterday's Enterprise is a reboot. In a Mirror Darkly is a reboot. Endgame is a reboot. > jonsills wrote: » > > Artan, the Kelvin Timeline explicitly takes place in an alternate universe. This is even mentioned in dialog in the 2009 film. > > > > > No. It's called an 'alternate reality' in the film not an 'alternate universe'. That term is used in DSC, to describe the Terran and Prime universes.
The universes in TNG Parallels are referred to as alternate quantum realities. The terms tend to be synonymous.
They were rebooting the story of TOS. Take the same characters in a setting they have been seen in is rebooting. Regardless of whether it overrides or runs parallel to previous continuity.
Also into darkness begs to differ with you saying they weren't retelling specific tos stories.
People need to learn what things mean. Star Trek nowadays clearly does NOT suffer from franchise-Fatigue. It did back when ENT was cancelled, because we got show after show with the <exact same formula>.
TNG's later Seasons included the setup for DS9 and VOY and the Shows were basically shoved out without meaningful breaks. Audiences aside from big fans didn't really starve out of content and eventually got sick of it. DS9 at first, VOY in the entirety and even ENT at first were just copying the style of TOS and TNG, and THAT is what the term franchise-fatigue means.
If you run show after show that does the same exact thing and there is no real-world gap that might make people wanting more. It got annoying. Berman being afraid of ACTUALLY TRYING new things was a huge problem too.
> @artan42 said:
> nrobbiec wrote: »
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> artan42 wrote: »
>
> nrobbiec wrote: »
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> artan42 wrote: »
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> nrobbiec wrote: »
>
> The less said about the reboot films the better,
>
>
>
>
> There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
>
>
>
>
> From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on.
>
> It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled.
>
>
>
>
>
> It is both in continuity and the same canon as the rest of the franchise. It is in no way a reboot despite what may or may not have been spitballed early in production. Spitballed by a director who doesn't have that sort of power working for a studio that has a licence and does not own the IP.
>
> It is also no more a moot point than TOS or ENT as both of those where cancelled.
>
> And it's the Kelvin Timeline not kelvinverse. The name refers to both the series and the setting of the majority of the films, neither of which involve alternate universes.
>
>
>
>
> Call it what you will, the point of the Kelvinverse was to retell and retread TOS, ergo a reboot. It's a dead continuity anyway so little point arguing about it and it is meandering quite far off the topic of a prospective Pike series.
>
>
>
>
> That may be the point of this 'Kelvinverse' but the point of the Kelvin Timeline is to tell the story of the characters of TOS in a new setting, not the stories of TOS in a new setting.
> If that's a reboot then Yesterday's Enterprise is a reboot. In a Mirror Darkly is a reboot. Endgame is a reboot.
> jonsills wrote: »
>
> Artan, the Kelvin Timeline explicitly takes place in an alternate universe. This is even mentioned in dialog in the 2009 film.
>
>
>
>
> No. It's called an 'alternate reality' in the film not an 'alternate universe'. That term is used in DSC, to describe the Terran and Prime universes.
The universes in TNG Parallels are referred to as alternate quantum realities. The terms tend to be synonymous.
They were rebooting the story of TOS. Take the same characters in a setting they have been seen in is rebooting. Regardless of whether it overrides or runs parallel to previous continuity.
Also into darkness begs to differ with you saying they weren't retelling specific tos stories.
The quantum realities in Parallels are also not alternate universes.
They were not rebooting TOS any more than the aforementioned Parallels rebooted TOS. You've nicely sidestepped the point about previous entries of time travel in the series to just repeat the same claim and offered no further evidence. Alternate timelines are not reboots, never have been and never can be because they still exist in the same canon.
Reboots involve new canon. Star Trek has one continuous canon ergo, no reboots.
ID does not retell a TOS story. I get you're trying to refer to Khan being in it a bit again, that's new character directions not a new edition of the same story.
ID is not Space Seed and it is not TWoK, it shares nothing with them narratively up to and including Spock surviving ID. You can argue they're similar (you'd be wrong on every level but the most superficial) but they are not even trying to tell the same story. TWoK is Khans revenge on Kirk, ID is Marcus' vendetta against Harrison. Space Seed is sort of about the dangers of Augments, ID doesn't even address it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
And a sequel doesn't require these explanations. Remove the Temporal Cold War and Enterprise is how a prequel is supposed to be done not introduce new technology and have to explain why we never saw it before.
My character Tsin'xing
We know a whole lot about those eras, except that it's all considered Beta Canon. I for one have no desire to see those stories overwritten by something else.
Not really no. Events from Books really have no impact on events from shows. Hell... novelizations of episodes or movies don't always follow the movie or episode 100%. The Novelization of the 09 Star Trek actually had Spock beat information out of a Romulan rather than a mind meld, which conflicts with what we saw in the movie.
Anyways... Beta can reference, but cannot influence. So Beta Canon can't actually be a definitive source of events.
And no one has made a false assumption that we know exactly what happened in every moment of history pre-TOS. So I don't understand why you need to keep repeating this pointless fact for more prequels. The vast majority of stories in Discovery could have been told in a sequel.
Some people are tired of all Star Trek for over 15 years has been prequels. I want to know what happened after Nemesis not what happened 10 years before TOS. The only prequels that I would want is with Gary Seven, the Eugenics War, and World War III since they would be far more entertaining than Discovery.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If it is our future, then we need to see it so we can prepare. Although, I doubt that there will be Colonel Green in our future.
My character Tsin'xing
https://www.change.org/p/star-trek-fans-cbs-give-us-a-pre-tos-star-trek-series-w-captain-pike-struggle-is-pointless
It was only posted a week ago, so hopefully this will grow enough to get noticed.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That said 1 or 7 guest appearances by Pike in the Section 31 show (possibly even the event of his accident depending on the setting) would be more than welcome.
I've always thought an anthology elseworlds style series like a live action Myriad Universe would be cool which could show a timeline where Pike is still commanding the Enterprise long after his original time.
No that was just a vision of his future. Sorry no canon violation here.
There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
So if it is not a reboot, then what is it? It is definitely not a prequel and only a few minutes of Star Trek 2009 can be considered as a sequel for Spock and the outcome of one planet. So the vast majority of the Kelvin movies can't be considered as part of a sequel.
It is a series of mostly unconnected films with slight links to the previous series. In the same way DS9 was only slightly connected to TNG or VGR was only slightly connected to DS9.
They are not sequels in the same way no other series has been a sequel (except for TAS and the TOS films for TOS and the TNG films for TNG and they are not prequels because they do not come before any pre-existing entry in the franchise.
Technically ENT isn't even a prequel to TOS, it's just a show made later and set before. DSC might be closer to an actual prequel but so far it mainly ties into The Cage rather than TOS proper.
Anyway, point is it's not a reboot because it's the same canon. I know you have this weird obsession with time travel but it's utterly irrelevant here because the timeline or whatever has never affected if a show or film is canon thus far in the franchise and does not here.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on.
It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled.
It is both in continuity and the same canon as the rest of the franchise. It is in no way a reboot despite what may or may not have been spitballed early in production. Spitballed by a director who doesn't have that sort of power working for a studio that has a licence and does not own the IP.
It is also no more a moot point than TOS or ENT as both of those where cancelled.
And it's the Kelvin Timeline not kelvinverse. The name refers to both the series and the setting of the majority of the films, neither of which involve alternate universes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Call it what you will, the point of the Kelvinverse was to retell and retread TOS, ergo a reboot. It's a dead continuity anyway so little point arguing about it and it is meandering quite far off the topic of a prospective Pike series.
That may be the point of this 'Kelvinverse' but the point of the Kelvin Timeline is to tell the story of the characters of TOS in a new setting, not the stories of TOS in a new setting.
If that's a reboot then Yesterday's Enterprise is a reboot. In a Mirror Darkly is a reboot. Endgame is a reboot.
No. It's called an 'alternate reality' in the film not an 'alternate universe'. That term is used in DSC, to describe the Terran and Prime universes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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> nrobbiec wrote: »
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> artan42 wrote: »
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> nrobbiec wrote: »
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> artan42 wrote: »
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> nrobbiec wrote: »
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> The less said about the reboot films the better,
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> There have been no 'reboot films', Star Trek has never been rebooted. All instances of the franchise exist in the same canon including the Kelvin Timeline trilogy.
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> From a production standpoint it was designed to reboot the franchise by retreading its original continuity to create something new. While yes it was tethered to original continuity and doesn't override anything due to being in a separate universe it was not a hard reboot in that respect, however had fortunes been different it is not unreasonable to assume the Kelvinverse would have supplanted the Primeverse in being the only continuity that was focused on.
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> It's all academic and a moot point anyway since it's been cancelled.
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> It is both in continuity and the same canon as the rest of the franchise. It is in no way a reboot despite what may or may not have been spitballed early in production. Spitballed by a director who doesn't have that sort of power working for a studio that has a licence and does not own the IP.
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> It is also no more a moot point than TOS or ENT as both of those where cancelled.
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> And it's the Kelvin Timeline not kelvinverse. The name refers to both the series and the setting of the majority of the films, neither of which involve alternate universes.
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> Call it what you will, the point of the Kelvinverse was to retell and retread TOS, ergo a reboot. It's a dead continuity anyway so little point arguing about it and it is meandering quite far off the topic of a prospective Pike series.
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> That may be the point of this 'Kelvinverse' but the point of the Kelvin Timeline is to tell the story of the characters of TOS in a new setting, not the stories of TOS in a new setting.
> If that's a reboot then Yesterday's Enterprise is a reboot. In a Mirror Darkly is a reboot. Endgame is a reboot.
> jonsills wrote: »
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> Artan, the Kelvin Timeline explicitly takes place in an alternate universe. This is even mentioned in dialog in the 2009 film.
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> No. It's called an 'alternate reality' in the film not an 'alternate universe'. That term is used in DSC, to describe the Terran and Prime universes.
The universes in TNG Parallels are referred to as alternate quantum realities. The terms tend to be synonymous.
They were rebooting the story of TOS. Take the same characters in a setting they have been seen in is rebooting. Regardless of whether it overrides or runs parallel to previous continuity.
Also into darkness begs to differ with you saying they weren't retelling specific tos stories.
TNG's later Seasons included the setup for DS9 and VOY and the Shows were basically shoved out without meaningful breaks. Audiences aside from big fans didn't really starve out of content and eventually got sick of it. DS9 at first, VOY in the entirety and even ENT at first were just copying the style of TOS and TNG, and THAT is what the term franchise-fatigue means.
If you run show after show that does the same exact thing and there is no real-world gap that might make people wanting more. It got annoying. Berman being afraid of ACTUALLY TRYING new things was a huge problem too.
The quantum realities in Parallels are also not alternate universes.
They were not rebooting TOS any more than the aforementioned Parallels rebooted TOS. You've nicely sidestepped the point about previous entries of time travel in the series to just repeat the same claim and offered no further evidence. Alternate timelines are not reboots, never have been and never can be because they still exist in the same canon.
Reboots involve new canon. Star Trek has one continuous canon ergo, no reboots.
ID does not retell a TOS story. I get you're trying to refer to Khan being in it a bit again, that's new character directions not a new edition of the same story.
ID is not Space Seed and it is not TWoK, it shares nothing with them narratively up to and including Spock surviving ID. You can argue they're similar (you'd be wrong on every level but the most superficial) but they are not even trying to tell the same story. TWoK is Khans revenge on Kirk, ID is Marcus' vendetta against Harrison. Space Seed is sort of about the dangers of Augments, ID doesn't even address it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It only 24 hours since I made the post above, the petition has grown to his:
https://www.change.org/p/star-trek-fans-cbs-give-us-a-pre-tos-star-trek-series-w-captain-pike-struggle-is-pointless
Also, Anson has responded on facebook and twitter:
https://www.facebook.com/ansonmount1/posts/2223114031079502
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008