and yet...airiam was so ridiculously easy to corrupt and be turned against the federation because of that physiology
So? Ships still use computers which seem even more "ridiculously easy" to corrupt. How many times has the ship's computer been hijacked? Many, many more times than someone was harmed by direct input controls.
And when the ship's computer, which has direct access to your brain via those controls, gets hijacked again? At least when consoles are involved, the personnel don't get overwritten by a virus. Same reason truly secure computer systems are airgapped - you can't hack what you can't access.
and yet...airiam was so ridiculously easy to corrupt and be turned against the federation because of that physiology
So? Ships still use computers which seem even more "ridiculously easy" to corrupt. How many times has the ship's computer been hijacked? Many, many more times than someone was harmed by direct input controls.
And when the ship's computer, which has direct access to your brain via those controls, gets hijacked again? At least when consoles are involved, the personnel don't get overwritten by a virus. Same reason truly secure computer systems are airgapped - you can't hack what you can't access.
Yeah, remember the TNG ep with Geordi, the Romulans, and the Krios colony?
> @ryan218 said:
> You mean like how the TV execs didn't think TOS would work before release?
Nope, thats not what I am referring to.
No, that's pretty much analogous.
You don't mind that Picard is the focus of TNG, even to the point that he's the only Human capable of facing off against (and impressing) Q,
Sisko would like a word with you.
as well as successfully negotiating with the Sheliak with only a few hours' preparation
Any person able to read a contract could have done it, or a good lawyer.
Also, it makes sense considering he's a recognized diplomat and the captain of the Federation's flagship. Of course, bad guys would want to target the guy captaining the latest ship of the legendary Enterprise legacy. Imagine the huge blow they could cause to the Federation is they could get him.
Also, he happens to have in his crew a member of the newest generation of androids, a Klingon (so it's easier for him to ask for Klingon favors, and in turn get involved in Klingon politics), a Betazoid who is the daughter of the best diplomat and Whoopi Goldberg in the role of Space Whoopi Goldberg for episodes that require some anvils to be dropped.
and fighting off a Borg invasion of his ship with a holographic tommy gun (taking advantage of a Weaksauce Weakness that was never mentioned before).
Not only is it because he still has Borg knowledge, which is mentioned before, but also it's a common sci-fi plot to have the supposedly unstoppable beings trashing the other superpowers getting their butts kicked by those pesky humans and their primitive physical projectiles that bypass their impenetrable shields. Stargate, Star Wars, Mass Effect, etc.
You don't mind that Sisko is a literal demigod, and that the Prophets arranged for his birth and the subsequent death of his wife specifically to put him into the correct position to fulfill prophecy.
On my side, actually, yes, I do mind this plot point, due to the many unfortunate implications this opens.
You don't even seem to mind that everything important that happened in the late 23rd century had to involve Jim Kirk.
hFranchise Original Sin and also, most of the time, it was due to real-life reasons (the 60s writing and its one-episode stories never mentioned again, low budget, etc.) and Kirk reacting to situations he didn't have a connection to. Also the ship was specifically on an exploration mission, so it makes sense things would happen.
Also, after TOS, things happen to Kirk BECAUSE OF his past feats.
The Motion Picture? Happens because he wants to be in charge of Enterprise thinking he knows it better to counter the threat despite the refit. And it's Spock's abilities and Decker's relationship with Ilia that solve the crisis.
Wrath of Khan, well Khan is kinda ticked off Kirk not only forgot about him when he needed it, but also got promoted. Also, Kirk is trying to get his mojo back.
Search for Spock, well, Spock is his best friend and there is the whole Genesis mess he was part of.
Voyage Home, they're the only ship NOT in danger-near-Earth range for once.
Final Frontier, we don't talk about that one.
The Undiscovered Country is about conspirators using Kirk's hate for Klingons due to the SfS events regarding his son and his legendary fame to make the Federation look bad and continue the war.
But for some reason when the person involved is Michael Burnham, you lose all sense of perspective. Why is that, one might wonder?
Because reasons mentioned earlier that happened in less than 2 seasons.
Well, there are 7 years of career and several years of the Vulcan Science Academy that we didn't get to see. We only ever look at the "most interesting" tiny window of the universe. And since Discovery is strongly serialized, not episodic, and thus lacks "filler "episodes", we get an even tinier window, sometimes coupled with a magnifying glass.
Regarding the matter of "hijackability" of cybernetic enhancements and so on . Everything in the Star Trek universe can be hijacked. Alien species can remove your memories, mind control you, or they can hack your computer or android, or someone's VISOR, or whatever. Everything can be exploited. The good thing is - sometimes the computer, android, VISOR or organic brain is the thing the enemy can't hack, and that saves the day.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well, there are 7 years of career and several years of the Vulcan Science Academy that we didn't get to see. We only ever look at the "most interesting" tiny window of the universe. And since Discovery is strongly serialized, not episodic, and thus lacks "filler "episodes", we get an even tinier window, sometimes coupled with a magnifying glass.
Every main character in every show has had a history we haven't seen before the show started, yet I have never felt them cramming so much "look how special I am!" into such a short amount of story development in the other shows. That said, I agree that the fact that this show has a single main character exacerbates the issue. Other shows spread the story around between the main crew, so it wasn't always one person who everything constantly revolved around.
Like I said before, it's a matter of taste and taste is subjective. I would just prefer that instead of cramming as much "Burnham is special" stuff into every episode of the show, they spread it out over a longer amount of time. I'm certainly not wrong for feeling that way, and neither is someone who wants every episode to make Burnham the most important person in the universe.
I do love this show. Its really great to have Trek back on TV. I hope it goes on for a full run. However
Ssslooooooooooooooooooooooooww the TRIBBLE down. Do a full season. Give us light episodes, like "looking for par'mach in all the wrong places' or 'Bride of Chaotica!'. Let us get to know the characters.
Dont be DC, be Marvel! Why should i care about Airiams death? I didn't know her. All the details we got about her, we got 25 mins before she died.
Also, get Detmer some damn screen time. The character is cool, and the actress is fine. And lets start getting Tilly to Nog a bit up.
Moving on, I was really hoping that the Red Angel was either Daniels or a Iconian. Daniels moreso. The Cold Temporal War really heats up, maybe bring in Archer or Tucker, finish up that story and then move onto a DIS story.
Loved that they brought back Talos IV. Good stuff.
I was hoping to learn more about Airiam, but after that episode, I wish I hadn't. You better hope that Detmer doesn't get more screen time or else there will be no more Detmer.
One of the problems with Discovery is that too many things are tied to Burnham. After all, it is Star Trek: Discovery not Star Trek: Burnham.
So, it's clear some think Burnham is "too special, too fast". It's also clear others disagree, and think it's absolutely fine the way it is.
To the latter group, I pose this question: is there ANYthing they could do that would make you think "ok, this is getting ridiculous"? If so, what would it be?
Or, would you literally accept ANYthing they did and never think it was too much? Do you think the writers could literally never go too far?
My reason for these question is this: if you do have a limit, we can at least have common ground. Granted, your limit might be different than mine, but that's ok. Taste is subjective. You might like more sugar in your coffee than me and that's ok.
But if you literally have no limit, there is likely no way to even discuss the topic reasonably. Having no limit would be like saying a dump truck of sugar in a cup of coffee is not too much. There is simply no way to reasonably discuss that.
One of the problems with Discovery is that too many things are tied to Burnham. After all, it is Star Trek: Discovery not Star Trek: Burnham.
Far, far more Trek revolving around Spock.
Actually, I was thinking about the super-special Jim Kirk, who just happened to be one of the survivors of the Tarsus IV massacre and then later hosts the prime suspect aboard his ship; who just happens to be the lucky human out of billions selected by T'pring to try to get out of her betrothal to Spock; who as captain of the Enterprise just happened to run across the same interstellar gas creature that killed most of the crew of the Farragut when Jim was a lieutenant and assigned to that ship; who just happened to have family on Deneva when that colony was attacked by evil flying jelly pancakes; who... but I think my point is made.
On every previous series, this sort of thing has been done. It's only making people upset now. I leave inquiries into the "why" of this to others, I merely note the phenomenon.
One of the problems with Discovery is that too many things are tied to Burnham. After all, it is Star Trek: Discovery not Star Trek: Burnham.
Far, far more Trek revolving around Spock.
Actually, I was thinking about the super-special Jim Kirk, who just happened to be one of the survivors of the Tarsus IV massacre and then later hosts the prime suspect aboard his ship; who just happens to be the lucky human out of billions selected by T'pring to try to get out of her betrothal to Spock; who as captain of the Enterprise just happened to run across the same interstellar gas creature that killed most of the crew of the Farragut when Jim was a lieutenant and assigned to that ship; who just happened to have family on Deneva when that colony was attacked by evil flying jelly pancakes; who... but I think my point is made.
On every previous series, this sort of thing has been done. It's only making people upset now. I leave inquiries into the "why" of this to others, I merely note the phenomenon.
IMO the new format (a single main character) exacerbates the issue. Other shows spread the story around between the main crew, so it wasn't always one person who everything constantly revolved around. But by having only a single main character, this issue stands out in a way it never has before.
Also, there was no internet (or not nearly as commonly used) for many of the early series. If there had been then people would have debated those stories and characters just as intensely as they do now. Just as you cannot accurately judge past people and events by modern standards, you also cannot accurately judge "reactions" without the modern means of communication.
So no, people aren't treating this series differently. This series is treated like everything else in the modern world that people talk about on the internet.
> @mustrumridcully0 said: >I am not exactly sure why she stopped playing Airiam, one rumor I heard was that she had allergy problems with the make-up. (Farscape and Andromeda fans might remember other actors having problem with their and having to lower their involvement in the series.)
Buddy Ebsen lost out as the Tin Man in 'The Wizard of Oz' because of reactions to the silver paint.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
One of the problems with Discovery is that too many things are tied to Burnham. After all, it is Star Trek: Discovery not Star Trek: Burnham.
Far, far more Trek revolving around Spock.
Actually, I was thinking about the super-special Jim Kirk, who just happened to be one of the survivors of the Tarsus IV massacre and then later hosts the prime suspect aboard his ship; who just happens to be the lucky human out of billions selected by T'pring to try to get out of her betrothal to Spock; who as captain of the Enterprise just happened to run across the same interstellar gas creature that killed most of the crew of the Farragut when Jim was a lieutenant and assigned to that ship; who just happened to have family on Deneva when that colony was attacked by evil flying jelly pancakes; who... but I think my point is made.
On every previous series, this sort of thing has been done. It's only making people upset now. I leave inquiries into the "why" of this to others, I merely note the phenomenon.
I'd say you note part of the phenomenon as at the time TOS was in first run it didn't have 25 seasons and 13 feature films (let us not forget independent video games, but I digress) worth of material to mine the way Star Trak: Discovery does.
Comments
Geordi didn't like having a brain implant...
My character Tsin'xing
Any person able to read a contract could have done it, or a good lawyer.
Also, it makes sense considering he's a recognized diplomat and the captain of the Federation's flagship. Of course, bad guys would want to target the guy captaining the latest ship of the legendary Enterprise legacy. Imagine the huge blow they could cause to the Federation is they could get him.
Also, he happens to have in his crew a member of the newest generation of androids, a Klingon (so it's easier for him to ask for Klingon favors, and in turn get involved in Klingon politics), a Betazoid who is the daughter of the best diplomat and Whoopi Goldberg in the role of Space Whoopi Goldberg for episodes that require some anvils to be dropped.
Not only is it because he still has Borg knowledge, which is mentioned before, but also it's a common sci-fi plot to have the supposedly unstoppable beings trashing the other superpowers getting their butts kicked by those pesky humans and their primitive physical projectiles that bypass their impenetrable shields. Stargate, Star Wars, Mass Effect, etc.
On my side, actually, yes, I do mind this plot point, due to the many unfortunate implications this opens.
hFranchise Original Sin and also, most of the time, it was due to real-life reasons (the 60s writing and its one-episode stories never mentioned again, low budget, etc.) and Kirk reacting to situations he didn't have a connection to. Also the ship was specifically on an exploration mission, so it makes sense things would happen.
Also, after TOS, things happen to Kirk BECAUSE OF his past feats.
The Motion Picture? Happens because he wants to be in charge of Enterprise thinking he knows it better to counter the threat despite the refit. And it's Spock's abilities and Decker's relationship with Ilia that solve the crisis.
Wrath of Khan, well Khan is kinda ticked off Kirk not only forgot about him when he needed it, but also got promoted. Also, Kirk is trying to get his mojo back.
Search for Spock, well, Spock is his best friend and there is the whole Genesis mess he was part of.
Voyage Home, they're the only ship NOT in danger-near-Earth range for once.
Final Frontier, we don't talk about that one.
The Undiscovered Country is about conspirators using Kirk's hate for Klingons due to the SfS events regarding his son and his legendary fame to make the Federation look bad and continue the war.
Because reasons mentioned earlier that happened in less than 2 seasons.
Regarding the matter of "hijackability" of cybernetic enhancements and so on . Everything in the Star Trek universe can be hijacked. Alien species can remove your memories, mind control you, or they can hack your computer or android, or someone's VISOR, or whatever. Everything can be exploited. The good thing is - sometimes the computer, android, VISOR or organic brain is the thing the enemy can't hack, and that saves the day.
Every main character in every show has had a history we haven't seen before the show started, yet I have never felt them cramming so much "look how special I am!" into such a short amount of story development in the other shows. That said, I agree that the fact that this show has a single main character exacerbates the issue. Other shows spread the story around between the main crew, so it wasn't always one person who everything constantly revolved around.
Like I said before, it's a matter of taste and taste is subjective. I would just prefer that instead of cramming as much "Burnham is special" stuff into every episode of the show, they spread it out over a longer amount of time. I'm certainly not wrong for feeling that way, and neither is someone who wants every episode to make Burnham the most important person in the universe.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I was hoping to learn more about Airiam, but after that episode, I wish I hadn't. You better hope that Detmer doesn't get more screen time or else there will be no more Detmer.
One of the problems with Discovery is that too many things are tied to Burnham. After all, it is Star Trek: Discovery not Star Trek: Burnham.
Exactly.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
To the latter group, I pose this question: is there ANYthing they could do that would make you think "ok, this is getting ridiculous"? If so, what would it be?
Or, would you literally accept ANYthing they did and never think it was too much? Do you think the writers could literally never go too far?
My reason for these question is this: if you do have a limit, we can at least have common ground. Granted, your limit might be different than mine, but that's ok. Taste is subjective. You might like more sugar in your coffee than me and that's ok.
But if you literally have no limit, there is likely no way to even discuss the topic reasonably. Having no limit would be like saying a dump truck of sugar in a cup of coffee is not too much. There is simply no way to reasonably discuss that.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
On every previous series, this sort of thing has been done. It's only making people upset now. I leave inquiries into the "why" of this to others, I merely note the phenomenon.
IMO the new format (a single main character) exacerbates the issue. Other shows spread the story around between the main crew, so it wasn't always one person who everything constantly revolved around. But by having only a single main character, this issue stands out in a way it never has before.
Also, there was no internet (or not nearly as commonly used) for many of the early series. If there had been then people would have debated those stories and characters just as intensely as they do now. Just as you cannot accurately judge past people and events by modern standards, you also cannot accurately judge "reactions" without the modern means of communication.
So no, people aren't treating this series differently. This series is treated like everything else in the modern world that people talk about on the internet.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
>I am not exactly sure why she stopped playing Airiam, one rumor I heard was that she had allergy problems with the make-up. (Farscape and Andromeda fans might remember other actors having problem with their and having to lower their involvement in the series.)
Buddy Ebsen lost out as the Tin Man in 'The Wizard of Oz' because of reactions to the silver paint.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'd say you note part of the phenomenon as at the time TOS was in first run it didn't have 25 seasons and 13 feature films (let us not forget independent video games, but I digress) worth of material to mine the way Star Trak: Discovery does.