I didn't say your opinion was wrong. I merely pointed out you'd misspelt a word.
And it is your opinion that the Starkiller Base is awesome and Rattler's opinion is that it is one of the dumbest ideas ever. Saying that Rattler misspelt a word clearly means that you are rejecting their opinion.
How much fun would it be to learn that there was more than a single Collective or Hive, if you prefer? This would allow a more diverse Borg threat as the varied Hives could be shown to adapt, or "evolve," in assorted directions.
I think that would make the Borg a far more interesting threat over all.
The problem is the Collective nature of the Borg. It really only allows for basically one overriding network. We've seen how the Queen deals with threats to the Collective with the whole "Unimatrix 0" thing. Even if one drone was detected on a whole cube, she'd destroy the cube to remove that one drone.
The closest we have is the Cooperative, which is made up of Liberated Borg. They may have some form of Collective hive mind, but its not the overpowering "your soul is mine" type that the Collective has.
The closest to what you describe in any franchise might be the post Overmind death Zerg Swarm in StarCraft. Cerebrates had more freedom to evolve their respective Broods, although still answered directly to the Queen of Blades once she fully established herself. After deinfestation at the hands of Raynor, the various Broods had even more freedom to evolve on their own. While some did fall under the sway of Amon, others did side with Kerrigan when she reclaimed her position as the Primal Queen of Blades.
Generally I'd say you are correct.
However, once members of many Federation species have been assimilated ,assuming they truly believe that the Federations strength is derived from it's many parts, that concept could very well infiltrate the Borg Collective and express itself in the manner I describe. In this way it would satisfy both the diversity angle and collective angle.
I'm not treating it as absolute, though. It's more a thought experiment for the purpose of making the Borg both dangerous and relevant again.
there's a massive problem with that theory, however - quite a few federation species have ALREADY been assimilated in numbers - the borg are still as monolithic as they've always been
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
there's a massive problem with that theory, however - quite a few federation species have ALREADY been assimilated in numbers - the borg are still as monolithic as they've always been
So it took some time. It could take time for the concept to assimilate and then some more time to implement. Meanwhile the Borg conduct business as usual so to all outward appearances nothing is up. That could take a couple of decades or so.
Then, when they burst on the scene again, we find that there are several kettles of fish with which to deal. Especially if as a result of the new Borg Diversity Training they are able to assimilate Undine, Heralds, Tholians, etc... without much effort.
Plus, just to emphasize how monstrous these new Borg are, have their new invasion start from the Gamma Quadrant. Why? Because we'll be expecting them from the Delta Quadrant and they know that.
Just some ideas, but we should probably not stray to far from the topic of this thread.
Except the idea of diversity also includes individuality and creativity. Things the Borg lack hardcore.
The Borg "Bring Order to Chaos". To them, Individuality is Chaos. Multiple independant voices speaking out but never agreeing on anything. Kinda like typical politicians most of the time.
The Borg do not innovate. They only steal and adapt what is useful. That is how they learn. Not through experimentation, but by assimilation. Taking what is better and making it their own.
Literally what the Borg are... is the opposite of what it means to be Human really. We thrive on our differences. We learn from our mistakes and improve based on our creativity. Some of our greatest achievements... were total accidents! One of the most widespread antibiotics... was discovered by accident!
The Borg have none of that, and do not want any of that. They are basically just machines that will take and take. Anything that is better they take. Anything that is worse they leave or destroy. Hell... they don't even bother assimilating the Kazon for crying out loud!
Biological and Technological distinctiveness does not extend to cultural. All it means is they will take whatever biology and technology that will improve the Collective, and discard the rest as useless waste. No different than taking a log, turning it into lumber, and discarding scraps.
Their obsession with the Federation is because they are the one faction that has so successfully resisted them. So obviously there is something superior within the Federation that can be assimilated and applied to the Collective. The problem with that... is that what is so superior is not biological or technological. It is something that cannot be assimilated. Something that cannot be analysed or quantified. Something that is beyond the comprehension of Hive Mind Assimilators.
Creativity, Courage, and Strength through Diversity.
Ok... seriously... am I NOT allowed to have an opinion?
Who said that?
I mean, obviously you just did, but I was wondering if anybody else had?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm aware that the 3.14 thing was a joke, but earlier it felt like I was not allowed to express my opinion on Starkiller Base. The timing of the joke could have been better honestly.
Actually Rattler the Borg do experiment. See The Omega Directive, Seven talked about how the Borg have experimented witb creating and stabilizing Omega, noting that one failed attempt destroyed millions of drones. To be fair though in other areas they just ignore assimilated tech that they should use of course, like Magnus Hansen's personal "Borg cloak" that should have been detected instantly when Janeway's crew used it as he was assimilated the same day as his daughter.
Its possible the Borg didn't see it as useful to them. That's the other thing about them. They focus on certain technologies while ignoring others. They have no need for stealth, so we don't see Borg with cloaks, and we all know they've assimilated ships that have cloaks. Stealth detection would be useful, but the fact that the Borg didn't bother with it seems to indicate a bit of arrogance on the part of the Borg or something along those lines. "Why bother when our sensors are already so advanced?"
As for Omega... its the closest thing the Borg have to a religion. To them, Omega represents Perfection.
Actually Rattler the Borg do experiment. See The Omega Directive, Seven talked about how the Borg have experimented witb creating and stabilizing Omega, noting that one failed attempt destroyed millions of drones. To be fair though in other areas they just ignore assimilated tech that they should use of course, like Magnus Hansen's personal "Borg cloak" that should have been detected instantly when Janeway's crew used it as he was assimilated the same day as his daughter.
Its possible the Borg didn't see it as useful to them. That's the other thing about them. They focus on certain technologies while ignoring others. They have no need for stealth, so we don't see Borg with cloaks, and we all know they've assimilated ships that have cloaks. Stealth detection would be useful, but the fact that the Borg didn't bother with it seems to indicate a bit of arrogance on the part of the Borg or something along those lines. "Why bother when our sensors are already so advanced?"
As for Omega... its the closest thing the Borg have to a religion. To them, Omega represents Perfection.
Well the Borg have two competing ideologies to balance. Most other races don't have this problem because they don't need to make this choice. That being a choice between efficient tech and the best available. The Borg use designs that are weird because they're multi-purpose in ways that most races never even thought of. But, this means the Borg CAN'T use all of the most powerful stuff they have all the time. It's why adaptation isn't permanent. Adaptation requires them to reconfigure to a state that's NOT optimal except for defending against a certain attack. After combat is over they reset. The Borg simply have so many options that it's impossible to actually use them all.
I would say the Borg. Mainly because the Empire's only defense vs Assimilation is the nuclear approach and I don't think that would work consistently enough. That and imagine if the Borg made landfall someplace like Coruscant? The Empire's only option would be to use a Death Star. Not necessarily full-power, but enough to blow city sized holes in the planet.
But, assimilation isn't really all that fast, and the Borg would need to figure out how to assimilate all the races they've not seen before. Granted, in most cases it'd not take that long, but there's dozens to figure out.
I don't see it as a given that a lone drone could assimilate the entire Empire, but it's possible. The reverse isn't true. Thus the Borg are a greater threat to the Empire, than the Empire are to the Borg.
One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.
Follow it up with a DBZ to any worlds with Borg left on them.
Not a realistic scenario. This sort of decapitation strike requires the Empire to know the location of all of the Borg they wish to target. Not realistic because the Imperials just aren't that good at scouting. It also requires the Borg to NOT know the location of Starkiller base. I doubt the Imperials would be able to fire it if it was under attack.
I would say the Borg. Mainly because the Empire's only defense vs Assimilation is the nuclear approach and I don't think that would work consistently enough. That and imagine if the Borg made landfall someplace like Coruscant? The Empire's only option would be to use a Death Star. Not necessarily full-power, but enough to blow city sized holes in the planet.
But, assimilation isn't really all that fast, and the Borg would need to figure out how to assimilate all the races they've not seen before. Granted, in most cases it'd not take that long, but there's dozens to figure out.
I don't see it as a given that a lone drone could assimilate the entire Empire, but it's possible. The reverse isn't true. Thus the Borg are a greater threat to the Empire, than the Empire are to the Borg.
One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.
Follow it up with a DBZ to any worlds with Borg left on them.
Not a realistic scenario. This sort of decapitation strike requires the Empire to know the location of all of the Borg they wish to target. Not realistic because the Imperials just aren't that good at scouting. It also requires the Borg to NOT know the location of Starkiller base. I doubt the Imperials would be able to fire it if it was under attack.
It would be interesting if the Borg has some cloaked bases for such a scenario.
Actually Rattler the Borg do experiment. See The Omega Directive, Seven talked about how the Borg have experimented witb creating and stabilizing Omega, noting that one failed attempt destroyed millions of drones. To be fair though in other areas they just ignore assimilated tech that they should use of course, like Magnus Hansen's personal "Borg cloak" that should have been detected instantly when Janeway's crew used it as he was assimilated the same day as his daughter.
Its possible the Borg didn't see it as useful to them. That's the other thing about them. They focus on certain technologies while ignoring others. They have no need for stealth, so we don't see Borg with cloaks, and we all know they've assimilated ships that have cloaks. Stealth detection would be useful, but the fact that the Borg didn't bother with it seems to indicate a bit of arrogance on the part of the Borg or something along those lines. "Why bother when our sensors are already so advanced?"
As for Omega... its the closest thing the Borg have to a religion. To them, Omega represents Perfection.
Well the Borg have two competing ideologies to balance. Most other races don't have this problem because they don't need to make this choice. That being a choice between efficient tech and the best available. The Borg use designs that are weird because they're multi-purpose in ways that most races never even thought of. But, this means the Borg CAN'T use all of the most powerful stuff they have all the time. It's why adaptation isn't permanent. Adaptation requires them to reconfigure to a state that's NOT optimal except for defending against a certain attack. After combat is over they reset. The Borg simply have so many options that it's impossible to actually use them all.
I would say the Borg. Mainly because the Empire's only defense vs Assimilation is the nuclear approach and I don't think that would work consistently enough. That and imagine if the Borg made landfall someplace like Coruscant? The Empire's only option would be to use a Death Star. Not necessarily full-power, but enough to blow city sized holes in the planet.
But, assimilation isn't really all that fast, and the Borg would need to figure out how to assimilate all the races they've not seen before. Granted, in most cases it'd not take that long, but there's dozens to figure out.
I don't see it as a given that a lone drone could assimilate the entire Empire, but it's possible. The reverse isn't true. Thus the Borg are a greater threat to the Empire, than the Empire are to the Borg.
One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.
Follow it up with a DBZ to any worlds with Borg left on them.
Not a realistic scenario. This sort of decapitation strike requires the Empire to know the location of all of the Borg they wish to target. Not realistic because the Imperials just aren't that good at scouting. It also requires the Borg to NOT know the location of Starkiller base. I doubt the Imperials would be able to fire it if it was under attack.
Are the Unicomplexs hidden? If not then the Empire knows where they are.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
the starkiller beam travels through sub-hyperspace...whatever the fork that is...which if it's anywhere NEAR as fast as regular hyperspace means the empire doesn't need to hit the borg beachheads in the galaxy - they can just obliterate the borg at the source in the milky way
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I find it very hard to read what you post when you capitalise every other work and don't use sentences.
Going by the gist of what you're saying, you're wrong. SW is massivly more advanced than the majority of ST races (including the Borg). SW are up to the stage where a small remnant of the Empire has converted a planet to a battlestation that uses stars as fuel and can fire on multiple targets through hyperspace and destroy them.
Also, in TCW you see Anakin pilot a small ship about as wide as a runabout and as long as four runabouts that has a cloaking device so Needa or Piett (or whoever it was) was wrong about the size of ship that can be equipped with a cloaking device.
Transporters are so easily countered in Trek depending on the plot that, again, depending on the plot of this vs battle the Empire could also interfere with.
You are SO SO Wrong about the Transporters and the Shields. The one thing that Both the Federation has and the Borg have Special Shield Frequency Witch can Block Transporters, and the Borg a known to Brake the Shields frequency from time to time. The Shields for let say Imperial-class Star Destroyer there shield generator are on the bridge and they are many for blaster fire and Torpedoes fire if you remember in Empire Strikes Back that several Imperial-class got blown up because of asteroids while federation shields and Borg Shields actually deflects them its not perfect but it stronger then what Imperial-class have
[url="http://"]https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-the-spaceships-in-Star-Trek-collide-with-any-rocks-or-planets-while-they-are-traveling-at-warp-speed[/url]
Also Star Wars shields come in two flavors, Ray and Particle. Ray Shields protect against blaster while Particle protects against things like warheads.
Neither of which are set up to block transporters.
Also Star Wars shields come in two flavors, Ray and Particle. Ray Shields protect against blaster while Particle protects against things like warheads.
Neither of which are set up to block transporters.
It depends on how Star Wars' shields work. Transporters work by sending an energy pattern to a specific location. So if the shields blocks any portion of the Transporter signal, then Star Wars' shields blocks transporters.
There isn't any kind of technology similar to transporters in Star Wars. If somehow Star Wars shields can block a Transporter, it would be by sheer accident because they've never seen the technology, thus would have no reason to develop a countermeasure against said technology.
Also... there are canon instances of Transporters going straight through shields as well. Dominion transporters early on weren't even phased by Federation shields, allowing Jem'Hadar to board DS9 right through the shields.
probably the same techbase their phased polaron weapons operated on...you notice they weren't doing any beaming during call to arms along with no direct hull damage
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
the starkiller beam travels through sub-hyperspace...whatever the fork that is...which if it's anywhere NEAR as fast as regular hyperspace means the empire doesn't need to hit the borg beachheads in the galaxy - they can just obliterate the borg at the source in the milky way
I still have to contend that's only true if they can SEE them. The First Order needed to know the exact location of any target they fired it at. Guessing wasn't good enough. Also they didn't have the ability to do long-range scans detailed enough to pick out targets from lightyears away. I mean, it's a repeating major plot point that finding stuff is hard.
Comments
And it is your opinion that the Starkiller Base is awesome and Rattler's opinion is that it is one of the dumbest ideas ever. Saying that Rattler misspelt a word clearly means that you are rejecting their opinion.
Your opinion minus 3.14 is just an onion.
So is that for everyone's opinion or just Rattler's?
No, it's everyone's.
Sure, as long as you don't subtract 3.14 from it. That's only allowed in the kitchen.
It is pretty funny. So would pie - 3.14 = e?
Generally I'd say you are correct.
However, once members of many Federation species have been assimilated ,assuming they truly believe that the Federations strength is derived from it's many parts, that concept could very well infiltrate the Borg Collective and express itself in the manner I describe. In this way it would satisfy both the diversity angle and collective angle.
I'm not treating it as absolute, though. It's more a thought experiment for the purpose of making the Borg both dangerous and relevant again.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
So it took some time. It could take time for the concept to assimilate and then some more time to implement. Meanwhile the Borg conduct business as usual so to all outward appearances nothing is up. That could take a couple of decades or so.
Then, when they burst on the scene again, we find that there are several kettles of fish with which to deal. Especially if as a result of the new Borg Diversity Training they are able to assimilate Undine, Heralds, Tholians, etc... without much effort.
Plus, just to emphasize how monstrous these new Borg are, have their new invasion start from the Gamma Quadrant. Why? Because we'll be expecting them from the Delta Quadrant and they know that.
Just some ideas, but we should probably not stray to far from the topic of this thread.
The Borg "Bring Order to Chaos". To them, Individuality is Chaos. Multiple independant voices speaking out but never agreeing on anything. Kinda like typical politicians most of the time.
The Borg do not innovate. They only steal and adapt what is useful. That is how they learn. Not through experimentation, but by assimilation. Taking what is better and making it their own.
Literally what the Borg are... is the opposite of what it means to be Human really. We thrive on our differences. We learn from our mistakes and improve based on our creativity. Some of our greatest achievements... were total accidents! One of the most widespread antibiotics... was discovered by accident!
The Borg have none of that, and do not want any of that. They are basically just machines that will take and take. Anything that is better they take. Anything that is worse they leave or destroy. Hell... they don't even bother assimilating the Kazon for crying out loud!
Biological and Technological distinctiveness does not extend to cultural. All it means is they will take whatever biology and technology that will improve the Collective, and discard the rest as useless waste. No different than taking a log, turning it into lumber, and discarding scraps.
Their obsession with the Federation is because they are the one faction that has so successfully resisted them. So obviously there is something superior within the Federation that can be assimilated and applied to the Collective. The problem with that... is that what is so superior is not biological or technological. It is something that cannot be assimilated. Something that cannot be analysed or quantified. Something that is beyond the comprehension of Hive Mind Assimilators.
Creativity, Courage, and Strength through Diversity.
I'd say it's up to the writer.
Who said that?
I mean, obviously you just did, but I was wondering if anybody else had?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Its possible the Borg didn't see it as useful to them. That's the other thing about them. They focus on certain technologies while ignoring others. They have no need for stealth, so we don't see Borg with cloaks, and we all know they've assimilated ships that have cloaks. Stealth detection would be useful, but the fact that the Borg didn't bother with it seems to indicate a bit of arrogance on the part of the Borg or something along those lines. "Why bother when our sensors are already so advanced?"
As for Omega... its the closest thing the Borg have to a religion. To them, Omega represents Perfection.
My character Tsin'xing
It would be interesting if the Borg has some cloaked bases for such a scenario.
Are the Unicomplexs hidden? If not then the Empire knows where they are.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
[url="http://"]https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-the-spaceships-in-Star-Trek-collide-with-any-rocks-or-planets-while-they-are-traveling-at-warp-speed[/url]
Neither of which are set up to block transporters.
It depends on how Star Wars' shields work. Transporters work by sending an energy pattern to a specific location. So if the shields blocks any portion of the Transporter signal, then Star Wars' shields blocks transporters.
Also... there are canon instances of Transporters going straight through shields as well. Dominion transporters early on weren't even phased by Federation shields, allowing Jem'Hadar to board DS9 right through the shields.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing