test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Orions and Science Ships

trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,136 Arc User
This has been one of my main irritations about the game. While I see more KDF ships coming out. I'm distraught on the very fact of how Cryptic chooses to do so. This is mainly in their lack of how the treat Orion's. But before we get in to that, first let's look at the all the KDF species and how they would actually fit within ship designing.

Klingon.
As we know from lore, Klingons are tactical and engineering oriented. This can't be argued, as they did reverse engineer Hur'Q tech to achieve space travel 1000 years ago. They also reverse engineered their cloaking tech, from parts of a Romulan cloaking device. Which shows in their lack of Science Ship designs.

Naussican
Heavily focus on tactical ships. This is in part due to their predatory nature. With some minor focus toward engineering. Again, this shows in their ships.

Lethean
Given their natural telepathy. I could see a wide variety of ships here. I'd say a balance between Engineer and Science, with moderate attention to Tactical.

Gorn
The scientist of the KDF. Or so they'd like you to believe. Given science has been a part of the Empire since before they joined, just overlooked by the honor-blind Warriors of the Klingons.

Ferasan
Given they're relationship to Caitians, however maintaining the more predatory side of their species, and not the tamed house cat version. This would be the same as Klingons. A heavy Tactical focus with a moderate amount of attention to Engineering.

Orions
Here is where it stick in my craw. Here is a species that has been spacefaring along side the Regallians for the better part of an easy 10,000 years. Before even the Dominion rose to power in the Gamma Quadrant.

A species that has it's own University. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Orion_University

A University that has an exchange program. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/University_of_Hurkos

Stepping outside of Mem-Alpha, which we know STO doesn't follow the lore to the exact here, to Mem-Beta we find two other things here.

One is, the Orions have they're on Space Navy. https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Orion_Space_Navy

Second in the Orion Section itself.
"A young Orion of age 18 could actually train to become an Explorer, through Explorer Basic Training. This was like a boarding school, and was the hardest training course of any spacefaring Orion group, teaching a wide variety of skills over four years with little time for leisure"

Then going back to Memory-Alpha, one can find this passage in the Orion section itself.
"During the mid-23rd century, noted Federation archaeologist Doctor Roger Korby translated medical records from the Orion ruins that helped revolutionize modern immunization techniques and became required reading at Starfleet Academy. (TOS: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?")"


So here we have a species, with a long and rich history of space travel and science. Yet all they can manage to build are some Engineering focused ships? I just can't understand this at all.

I mean I know this comes off as part rant, Which I know it is. That and I'm also pointing out that Orions are more than criminals and slave girls, something else they don't want you to believe. But the disparity of this is just wrong. I mean we are talking about a species, whose medical history revolutionized the Federation's. Which has science written all over it.

I even did some stat blocks, on two years ago. You can find those in the the Klingon subsection. post names is Syndicate Science Support Vessel. That turned out to go from two Science ships, and turned into an Orion ship, a Naussican ship, a Lethean ship, and a Gorn ship. So it's not like I haven't tried to help bring this about.

One can even do this with my science ships I did to support the T6 Nova, Oberth, and Luna class ships. Just take the Luna-class one I did and give it an Orion make over.

So with all of this, and going back to the purpose of this post. Am I just asking to much to see a Science oriented Orion ship?

Edit:
Name change to reflect post.
Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg

Comments

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,424 Arc User
    The Orion ships we already have are cool. But yeah it feels weird that it's the GORN who get the science. It'd be nice to have an Orion flight deck science ship.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • zerokillcf2011zerokillcf2011 Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    Getting some more Orion ship love would be nice. Thumbs up!
  • zanibarzanibar Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    I agree with the author, but would also like a bridge that wasn't a Klingon based one. Seems all the allies of the Klingons end up with red dreary type bridges!
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,292 Arc User
    I agree that it is strange that the Orions have the engineering oriented ships, while the Gorn have the science oriented ships, though in someways I guess I could see it somewhat. As it was said they have a explorer academy like boarding school that seems to have some degree of importance, so focusing on engineering ships (specifically cruiser types) that would be better suited for exploration type missions makes some kind of sense. Add in that they have more of a focus on medical by what was said in the op even a cruiser would make sense for the added room an facilities that could be used for medical operations.

    I would say that Gorn could be the science oriented ace with having some leaning on the engineering, while Orion would make sense as a engineering with science leaning. The way I see how others go is the Klingions are more the bird of prey an battlecruisers (carriers too), while the Naussican would be more escort an destroyer (even dreadnaught), Ferasan though i think would be more swarm/pack oriented using escorts an carriers/cruisers.

    The Lethean yet I would make more balanced building in all the types, but the fact they have a innate psionic side is something interesting that could be investigated as a aspect of their ships, since in some fo the works psionic/mind based things like telepathy an telekenetics seemed more common in the past. It would be interesting if we saw a expansion that delved into the psionic side of things an that past, we have seen that Vulcan had created such weapons too that worked, and imagine a psionic based ship designs coming out of the Letheans.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 6,515 Arc User
    I wonder if their focus on science is now in the past tense. Perhaps society devolved from slavers raiding the planet, criminal gangs rising to power, Orions raiding and selling their own people.

    Crime lords don't generally think far enough ahead to fund long-term basic research, they live more in the moment.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,160 Arc User
    The Gorn could use a non-science ship for a change.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,136 Arc User
    edited March 13
    I wonder if their focus on science is now in the past tense. Perhaps society devolved from slavers raiding the planet, criminal gangs rising to power, Orions raiding and selling their own people.

    Crime lords don't generally think far enough ahead to fund long-term basic research, they live more in the moment.



    They didn't rise up from that. Orion slavery is a business. One can become a slave in various ways. Most are sold into such by family members who can't take care of them. Or they sell themselves into for the very same reason. The Syndicate is only on side of the Orion culture. The other side of that, is the side that runs the aforementioned schools and the space navy.

    Just like Section 31 is just one side of the Federation.

    As far as science goes, especially the medical side. Orions pride themselves on being able to take care of their caj(family), including slaves. Its a sign of power and prestige with them. This goes double for grey orions, these are genetic mutations that require specially designed living areas, or they die. This includes being able to transport them on a ship.


    avoozuul wrote: »
    The Gorn could use a non-science ship for a change.

    This would also be a refreshing change.
    Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    I've been dying for a science focused Orion CARRIER for a while now.. with Orion frigates...
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 253 Arc User
    I wonder if their focus on science is now in the past tense. Perhaps society devolved from slavers raiding the planet, criminal gangs rising to power, Orions raiding and selling their own people.

    Crime lords don't generally think far enough ahead to fund long-term basic research, they live more in the moment.

    Possibly to some extent (Corby finding the medical stuff in ancient ruins hints at some sort of fall) but the problem is that the syndicate is only one thread of their culture, not the whole thing by any stretch.

    On the other hand, some of it could be explained as scientific secrets being horded by various caj (maybe their society got so polarized, selfish, and paranoid that could no longer cooperate enough to function and sent itself into a sort of dark ages or something) and not generally available anymore unless something happens to bring the fact that there was a possible sale to be made to the ears of the right family. In TOS the Orions were the hyper-capitalists who would sell anything (including litterally their own mothers) if the profit was high enough but apparently even that was considered too subtle for TNG and the Ferengi were brought in to take over the role.

    They are no slouches at science any way you look at them though, they reconstructed an Orion male to pass as an Andorian well enough that it fooled Andorians who knew Thelen for a while. More importantly, the ship they harassed Enterprise with was so cutting edge that it took Spock hours to even formulate an idea of how they did it, and then when he did he concluded that the people most likely to be able to pull it off were the Orions, which speaks of how skilled and knowledgeable the Orions actually are.

    Speaking of the flying Ferris wheel from the remastered version of that episode, it would make a great Orion escort in the game, and unlike the Orion Wanderer-class light cruiser (apparently Starfleet bought at least one of them from the Orions in their scramble for ships for the war, naming it USS Constellation (NCC-55817)) used once in TNG there is no possible IP issues with it. Both of those ships fit the baroquely ornate Orion aesthetics a lot better than whatever that piece of junk was that Harrad-Sar was flying in ENT and which STO has apparently based the Orion ship designs on in the game.

    I can see why the devs would want to skimp on the bridge and just use standard Klingon bridges to save expense and effort, but in the case of the Orions it not only makes little sense aesthetically (their style has been described as "Arabian Nightmare" btw, and it would be interesting to see a bridge done in that kind of style), the Orions come from a system with a hot, bright, blue-white star so those Klingon bridges would probably be darker than Lorca's ready room to them. Why would the Orions make a bridge they would practically need nightvision goggles to walk around in?

    Anyway, there is a lot of potential in the Orions in general, and it totally makes sense for them to build science ships.

  • duasynduasyn Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    The Orion ships we already have are cool. But yeah it feels weird that it's the GORN who get the science. It'd be nice to have an Orion flight deck science ship.

    Yeah, other than the SFB Gorn Anchor mechanic, I see no real reason why Gorn are the Science ships of STO.
    I would like to see each KDF race get a ship 3 pack of eng/tac/sci. 3 unique ships would be nice, but I'd take an Oddy type 3 specs/1 ship thing too. My KDF is an Orion Sci captain, so would like at least 1 Orion SciShip to drive. So far I've found the Orion ships to be underwhelming blobs.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,160 Arc User
    I like the TAS versions of Orion ships.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,136 Arc User
    duasyn wrote: »
    The Orion ships we already have are cool. But yeah it feels weird that it's the GORN who get the science. It'd be nice to have an Orion flight deck science ship.

    Yeah, other than the SFB Gorn Anchor mechanic, I see no real reason why Gorn are the Science ships of STO.
    I would like to see each KDF race get a ship 3 pack of eng/tac/sci. 3 unique ships would be nice, but I'd take an Oddy type 3 specs/1 ship thing too. My KDF is an Orion Sci captain, so would like at least 1 Orion SciShip to drive. So far I've found the Orion ships to be underwhelming blobs.
    duasyn wrote: »
    The Orion ships we already have are cool. But yeah it feels weird that it's the GORN who get the science. It'd be nice to have an Orion flight deck science ship.

    Yeah, other than the SFB Gorn Anchor mechanic, I see no real reason why Gorn are the Science ships of STO.
    I would like to see each KDF race get a ship 3 pack of eng/tac/sci. 3 unique ships would be nice, but I'd take an Oddy type 3 specs/1 ship thing too. My KDF is an Orion Sci captain, so would like at least 1 Orion SciShip to drive. So far I've found the Orion ships to be underwhelming blobs.

    We've seen them work toward this of late. They released some of the other races ships in the c-store. I believe this was when the Blackguard, an Orion cruiser appeared. This was a lockbox ship I believe.
    avoozuul wrote: »
    I like the TAS versions of Orion ships.

    While I can agree they are cool. I'm not sure we'll ever seen them TAS would require another licensing. That, and I'm not sure if CBS would allow it in game, they don't support TAS.
    Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg
  • zerokillcf2011zerokillcf2011 Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    duasyn wrote: »
    The Orion ships we already have are cool. But yeah it feels weird that it's the GORN who get the science. It'd be nice to have an Orion flight deck science ship.

    Yeah, other than the SFB Gorn Anchor mechanic, I see no real reason why Gorn are the Science ships of STO.
    I would like to see each KDF race get a ship 3 pack of eng/tac/sci. 3 unique ships would be nice, but I'd take an Oddy type 3 specs/1 ship thing too. My KDF is an Orion Sci captain, so would like at least 1 Orion SciShip to drive. So far I've found the Orion ships to be underwhelming blobs.

    Oh lord, I miss the anchor....and then dumping a Type R plasma or 3 Type S on them. lol. Plasma BOLTS were also fun.
    avoozuul wrote: »
    I like the TAS versions of Orion ships.

    Yes. I personally wouldnt mind the TOS ship we saw briefly for the Orions in the Temporal missions, OR the Gorns ships from those same missions. I really think not releasing more TOS ships when they did that expansion was a waste. I mean the Roms and Klink only got lockbox/lobi ships for that period? Total waste.

    Also in game, we have SEEN larger orion ships as NPC (thinking of the last mission for Paradise Lost with big bad Orion guy. ALSO we used to have big Gorn ships back in the Gorn Minefield mission days and a few of the older missions that have been scrapped. BOTH were classed as Dreadnoughts in game. Gimme those.

    Also on that note, remodel the Typhoon and release it for the Feds. Plz and thank you.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,136 Arc User
    duasyn wrote: »
    The Orion ships we already have are cool. But yeah it feels weird that it's the GORN who get the science. It'd be nice to have an Orion flight deck science ship.

    Yeah, other than the SFB Gorn Anchor mechanic, I see no real reason why Gorn are the Science ships of STO.
    I would like to see each KDF race get a ship 3 pack of eng/tac/sci. 3 unique ships would be nice, but I'd take an Oddy type 3 specs/1 ship thing too. My KDF is an Orion Sci captain, so would like at least 1 Orion SciShip to drive. So far I've found the Orion ships to be underwhelming blobs.

    Oh lord, I miss the anchor....and then dumping a Type R plasma or 3 Type S on them. lol. Plasma BOLTS were also fun.
    avoozuul wrote: »
    I like the TAS versions of Orion ships.

    Yes. I personally wouldnt mind the TOS ship we saw briefly for the Orions in the Temporal missions, OR the Gorns ships from those same missions. I really think not releasing more TOS ships when they did that expansion was a waste. I mean the Roms and Klink only got lockbox/lobi ships for that period? Total waste.

    Also in game, we have SEEN larger orion ships as NPC (thinking of the last mission for Paradise Lost with big bad Orion guy. ALSO we used to have big Gorn ships back in the Gorn Minefield mission days and a few of the older missions that have been scrapped. BOTH were classed as Dreadnoughts in game. Gimme those.

    Also on that note, remodel the Typhoon and release it for the Feds. Plz and thank you.

    Might still be able to get them to show up by getting the Gorn in the two Fleet Starbase TFOs.
    Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.