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[PC] Character Creation Redesign

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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 247 Arc User
    edited March 13
    (Off topic comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,848 Arc User
    Have to say I would have preferred this dev time went to ward something far more needed.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,793 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Have to say I would have preferred this dev time went to ward something far more needed.

    I suspect it's a case of "Working on what they CAN work on".
    whatever.

  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited March 13
    (Off topic comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    ♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
    It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
  • daimonion13#5412 daimonion13 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 13
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • badgerpants999badgerpants999 Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    duasyn wrote: »

    [Snip]

    Can't you just take a preset toon and then when you get to the in-game tailor then use your saved build? Sure you have to go through the intro missions as generic officer, but seems a minor point in the grand scheme of things.

    [Snip]

    So what's the point of having a character creator then? Just go through a series of presets to choose your gender/race/career and pick a generic toon to play through the tutorial with and hit the tailor right after you get to the game proper.

    Put simply we want to START with our own character. For that we need a good, usable character creator. Something that will allow us to make a toon we want to take all the way to level 65. If people are making clones then they've obviously found their dream space barbie.

    Clearly the current iteration needs work, and It seems the work isn't finished yet so there's still hope. But the return of the Load/Save outfit button and the Static Stance option need to be priorities as they're certainly the most useful missing part of the character creator. Or at least the most missed parts.
  • pendra37#5088 pendra37 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    - It is sluggish like it was still an internal demonstration build.
    - I've seen more imaginative and better designed buttons in 10 years old accounting applications. It is not a good idea to try to learn UI design from 30+ years old books.
    - Condensing all the same slides, button and drop downs to a smaller screen area, like screen area on a character design interface was a high value commodity is a pretty dumb notion.
    - Loss of save/load functionality? Come on.

    This whole thing feels like the result of a training project for a new intern. The thing is, training projects rarely go live, they serve as a learning experience for the new staff.

    I give an E for Effort. I also have to commend the guys who created the original character design UI. That part was top notch from the start, so good actually, that even after 10 years, it still can't be bested.
  • pomonagrange#3097 pomonagrange Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited March 10
    Can't you just take a preset toon and then when you get to the in-game tailor then use your saved build? Sure you have to go through the intro missions as generic officer, but seems a minor point in the grand scheme of things.
    So what's the point of having a character creator then? Just go through a series of presets to choose your gender/race/career and pick a generic toon to play through the tutorial with and hit the tailor right after you get to the game proper.

    Put simply we want to START with our own character. For that we need a good, usable character creator. Something that will allow us to make a toon we want to take all the way to level 65. If people are making clones then they've obviously found their dream space barbie.

    Completely agree with you, Badgerpants. Also, what happens after you make any number of changes (anything from a few to many of them) to the generic character and (because of the lack of a save function), you get dumped back to desktop or the power goes out where you live? No save means you couldn't even save a portion of your choices. You're forced to go through the entire character creation a second time to create the same character. I don't have the kind of memory (and I don't write down my choices) that helps me redo everything I did the first time. And certainly not the patience of a saint. I would probably just say, "Never mind. I'll just create another character entirely. And maybe *this time* my choices will survive until I get to my faction's nearest tailor. Or I can just go play another game, where they know how to handle character creation." Maybe in the next patch someone in the programming department with some common sense will re-insert the "save/load" function. One can hope.
  • tvirxtvirx Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited March 13
    (Off topic comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    muschamp-gets-creepy-weird.gif
  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    Save/Load is STILL in the Tailor UI. It's gone from the character creator UI.
    avoozuul wrote: »
    No save/load is going to turn me off from even using the tailor anymore.

  • klintobean81klintobean81 Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    Too little, too late.

    This was so low on the totem pole of necessities.
    Would have preferred resources spent on things that actually need to be fixed or new content.
  • jamieblanchardjamieblanchard Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Have to say I would have preferred this dev time went to ward something far more needed.

    Greatly agreed. The character creator falls under "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

    Resident TOS, G.I. Joe and Transformers fangirl.

    And knowing is half the battle!

    Too shy, shy! Hush hush, eye to eye!
  • sgtken60sgtken60 Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Have to say I would have preferred this dev time went to ward something far more needed.

    Greatly agreed. The character creator falls under "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

    Yeah I have to agree, BUT darn I miss the save/load in the character creator A LOT!
    Before if I was setting up a new character, I would hit save once in awhile so if I to step away, lose power, etc, so I start back up were I was.

    It was one of my favorite things in the game, but the old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", hit the character creator now we have this new one, there are parts of it that are okay, but there is the whole frame rate issues.
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,334 Arc User
    I agree with those saying that this wasn't necessary. The character creation UI was perfectly alright. Not too complicated, not too cluttered, certainly not perfect but in a great state when compared to other UIs in the game.

    There are plenty of UIs in desperate need of some attention. The exchange comes to mind (such a mess), the doff/admiralty R&D UI, stores UI etc.
  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited March 13
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    ♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
    It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
  • centurian821centurian821 Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    Only two criticisms from me. There seems to be a lot of unused space with this new UI and the lack of Save/Load Outfit buttons should be corrected.

    Unlike some, I did not experience any lag when I tried the new UI out over the weekend so I'm not sure where that complaint is coming from.

    Other than that, not a bad job. Functionality is retained from what I can see, just moved around a bit.
  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited March 13
    (Off topic comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    You also can't set your height, nor your stance.
    Only two criticisms from me. There seems to be a lot of unused space with this new UI and the lack of Save/Load Outfit buttons should be corrected.

    Unlike some, I did not experience any lag when I tried the new UI out over the weekend so I'm not sure where that complaint is coming from.

    Other than that, not a bad job. Functionality is retained from what I can see, just moved around a bit.

  • fury#0751 fury Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    Completely agree with you, Badgerpants. Also, what happens after you make any number of changes (anything from a few to many of them) to the generic character and (because of the lack of a save function), you get dumped back to desktop or the power goes out where you live? No save means you couldn't even save a portion of your choices. You're forced to go through the entire character creation a second time to create the same character. I don't have the kind of memory (and I don't write down my choices) that helps me redo everything I did the first time. And certainly not the patience of a saint. I would probably just say, "Never mind. I'll just create another character entirely. And maybe *this time* my choices will survive until I get to my faction's nearest tailor. Or I can just go play another game, where they know how to handle character creation." Maybe in the next patch someone in the programming department with some common sense will re-insert the "save/load" function. One can hope.

    The lack of state-saving in the Character Creator is completely orthogonal to the presence of "Load" and "Save" buttons. The CC UI should just persist all its changes and auto-restore.

    Also, we don't need an explicit "Load" as that can be rolled into the already existing "Presets" UI - simply display all discovered presets there. I'm not sure how STO works with user saved presets - most games have a visible profile folder somewhere like "~/Documents/<TheGame>/Content" and simply having files in this location means the game can discover them.

    Then, make collecting costume presets easy. All my fleet costumes should be auto saved to my custom costume presets folder so I can start the game with a fleet costume, and if I see a character, NPC or PC, I like the look of, I should be able to save that look too by clicking on their portrait.


  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 387 Arc User
    edited March 13
    (Off topic comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • docjohn3docjohn3 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Truly not a fan. Restore the old character creator. Your new version is incredibly harder and more confusing. If you want to tamper with the game why not fix all the glitches on the ship models etc. I'm sorry but your new character creator has to go. I do not look forward to creating a new character at all, and this along with the Foundry shut-down makes me consider my future of playing this game. FIX what's broken, not what already works just fine.
  • madhatch1971madhatch1971 Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited March 12
    > @tvirx said:
    > jexsamx wrote: »
    >
    > stark2k wrote: »
    >
    > Trek fans are about keeping in line with the lore and spirit of the series they so grew up and loved, especially now that the new direction the series has gone mimics the rhetoric of the social justice warriors movement, me too movement, and various other movements that want and need to force feed their desires on all platforms and media, which includes gaming.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You've never seen an episode of Star Trek in your life, have you?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Heh... amen, Brother. TOS references one 60s societal movement after the other. Hell, McCoy, Spock, and Kirk offer a "Cliff's Notes" recap of each episode's "SJW" theme at the end of several first and second season episodes.
    >
    > Items of note:
    >
    > - Several episodes regarding the ills of communal living.
    > - Interracial relationship issues.
    > - Anti-war messages (Vietnam plays prominently here).
    > - Sexual abuse.
    > - Mass Genocide.
    > - The many ills of eugenics (Khan, anyone?)
    > - Etc...
    >
    > Like it or not, these things are hard-coded into the Star Trek DNA. I would argue that this is one of the primary reasons the series has thrived these many years.
    >
    > LLaP.

    TOS wasn’t SJW like you people claim.....for one thing the Federation was engaged in a Cold War with the Klingons that would have gone hot if the Organians hadn’t stopped it. There is also the total lack of Identity Politics in TOS....and Kirk would have never gotten to Captain if “Me Too” was a thing. While TOS was definitely socially liberal, it was far from SJW nonsense. What’s funny is that TNG, DS9, and VOY are full of what SJWs call “Cultural Appropiation”.

    Yes it was. For a show that aired in 1966, it was way ahead of the curve on many issues. Of course, if you're judging it by the standards of today, yes it's lacking. The world has changed since 1966. But the point remains, at the time it first aired it was a SJW show, daring to tackle issues of the day; like racism, sexism (to an extent - it should be noted that Grace Lee Whitney was responsible for the mini-skirt uniform, she wanted something to show off her legs). The cold war between the UFP and Klingons? The show was quick showing that neither the "good guys" (the Federation) or the "bad guys" (the Klingons) fully understand what the consequences would be if they didn't stop being aggressive to each other (the allegory being the Federation was the USA and the Klingons the USSR). THAT message was/is loud and clear.

    TOS has to be judged by the standards of the day it was made, and seen in context to the time. Otherwise you dismiss the messages and the work that went into it.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 247 Arc User
    renata666 wrote: »
    You also can't set your height, nor your stance.
    Only two criticisms from me. There seems to be a lot of unused space with this new UI and the lack of Save/Load Outfit buttons should be corrected.

    Unlike some, I did not experience any lag when I tried the new UI out over the weekend so I'm not sure where that complaint is coming from.

    Other than that, not a bad job. Functionality is retained from what I can see, just moved around a bit.

    I set height and stance normally on both of the characters I made in the new creator UI. You have to dig for some of the things that used to be right on the screen in the old UI. It is a symptom of bringing in consoles to a game, pretty soon all the screens start getting to be "console friendly" so it is less work for the devs but more hunting and clicking through tabs and scroll frames for the players on PC.
  • villainvilevillainvile Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited March 12
    Greetings from the german speaking community:
    UNDO IT!

    Sorry, but this is trash.
    Why STO should need a redesign of the character creator? It' doesn't. All was perfect.
    But now? We have no species traits, so where new players now can see it? No save/load function for outfits? No static function for the character?
    No way!

    Some of the german community asking:
    Are you playing your own game? Doesn't seem so!

    Another thing is, that you're doing useless work. Character Editor? It has no priority! There are other systems and bugs more important then the character editor! Give us more episodes! Expand the Victory is Live expansion! Do the cardassians make as an own faction!
    "You do the back in front of the front."

    UNDO IT!
  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    Thanks for the info. I'll look again. But I have to say, if I have to HUNT for this stuff, the new creator sucks. Just my humble opinion. :smile:
    renata666 wrote: »
    You also can't set your height, nor your stance.
    Only two criticisms from me. There seems to be a lot of unused space with this new UI and the lack of Save/Load Outfit buttons should be corrected.

    Unlike some, I did not experience any lag when I tried the new UI out over the weekend so I'm not sure where that complaint is coming from.

    Other than that, not a bad job. Functionality is retained from what I can see, just moved around a bit.

    I set height and stance normally on both of the characters I made in the new creator UI. You have to dig for some of the things that used to be right on the screen in the old UI. It is a symptom of bringing in consoles to a game, pretty soon all the screens start getting to be "console friendly" so it is less work for the devs but more hunting and clicking through tabs and scroll frames for the players on PC.

  • pomonagrange#3097 pomonagrange Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited March 13
    The lack of state-saving in the Character Creator is completely orthogonal to the presence of "Load" and "Save" buttons. The CC UI should just persist all its changes and auto-restore.

    Also, we don't need an explicit "Load" as that can be rolled into the already existing "Presets" UI - simply display all discovered presets there. I'm not sure how STO works with user saved presets - most games have a visible profile folder somewhere like "~/Documents/<TheGame>/Content" and simply having files in this location means the game can discover them.

    Then, make collecting costume presets easy. All my fleet costumes should be auto saved to my custom costume presets folder so I can start the game with a fleet costume, and if I see a character, NPC or PC, I like the look of, I should be able to save that look too by clicking on their portrait.

    And as I said in another post, it isn't just the save/load function removal that "bugs" me. But when you name your character, wouldn't it be nice to have that name consistently shown in the usual locations in-game, rather than being switched to some other name by the software and no way - outside of paying for zen, or converting dilithium to zen - to fix what wasn't your fault? (I would completely understand if it's *my* fault. Okay, fine, if I goofed, I goofed. Either I keep the goofed-up name or spend the zen to change it to what it should've been.) At least a character's starship gets *one* free renaming. Why doesn't a character get *one* free renaming as well (even if the existing name was a mistake caused by the player)?

    Reminds me of a 1950s Jaguar's brakes: Press on the pedal once, brakes don't work, but rather than fix it Jaguar installed a light on the dashboard which would light up to remind you to press the pedal a second time, and this time the brakes will work. (Yes, this actually happened back then. Jay Leno wrote about it in a car magazine article.)
  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    I agree with the need for the return of the Static button. Poor character's having whiplash while I try to set the tattoo/scar where I want it to.

    Being able to keep the avatar still also helps out with figuring out what to do with proportion settings for the character, rather than having to wait for the character to change it's pose to see if it still needs adjustment.
    Hoping for 25th Century shuttles since 2010 :)
  • knochengeigerknochengeiger Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Have to say I would have preferred this dev time went to ward something far more needed.

    Exactly! it looks nice, but I created a new char, noticed i can't load outfits, so i just skipped and did it later at the tailor. So i really don't see the need for this screen, i am never gonna use it anyway. The manpower for that remake was a waste, since it is something we only see once in the life of a char for 10 minutes... putting that manpower in saving the foundry would have been much more useful.
    We want to keep the foundry.
  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    Yup, it's there under basic body controls. But I could have sworn they weren't there the previous time I looked. As it is, those controls looked to be the ONLY ones in basic. That's just dumb.
    renata666 wrote: »
    You also can't set your height, nor your stance.
    Only two criticisms from me. There seems to be a lot of unused space with this new UI and the lack of Save/Load Outfit buttons should be corrected.

    Unlike some, I did not experience any lag when I tried the new UI out over the weekend so I'm not sure where that complaint is coming from.

    Other than that, not a bad job. Functionality is retained from what I can see, just moved around a bit.

    I set height and stance normally on both of the characters I made in the new creator UI. You have to dig for some of the things that used to be right on the screen in the old UI. It is a symptom of bringing in consoles to a game, pretty soon all the screens start getting to be "console friendly" so it is less work for the devs but more hunting and clicking through tabs and scroll frames for the players on PC.

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