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Foundry Sunset, April 11th, 2019

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  • spoon2012spoon2012 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Ok removing the foundry is going to cause a hold load of grief to an already broken system,

    The foundry has a lot of talented players that create content and give players option and also give them a break from the missions

    The foundry also houses a lot of accolades and personal endeavours that making them a lot easier to complete

    Closing the foundry will force players into an already broken STF's opps sorry TFO's system, Normal queues dont pop every often forcing player to go into advanced runs where they are not experienced enough nore geared up right for those queues and its making a total mess of the system. I personally run into a level 20 player in a Defence of Star base One Advanced and they were getting there backside handed to them, thus expecting everyone else to carry the weight, This was introduced to help revitalise queues but its back fired and made them even worse. The higher level player base is being forced to take the weight of lower level players.

    Taking the foundry away is a bad idea, How about sort the TFO queues out in the same way WOW did to stabilise them before taking material away
  • edxelledxell Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    The foundry is where fun and interesting missions are made. Without it we'll just have whatever missions cryptic releases (which seem to be getting rarer) and the usual reputation grind. Removing the foundry will definitely cause me to think twice about spending money on Star Trek Online.
  • daskumadaskuma Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Cryptic this is probably the worst decision that you have ever made. Be it that your content is good IT IS NOT GREAT. It is satisfactory for new players or players who are casual to the game. It creates a buzz and must attract some new players. That being said you have now alienated a great portion of the loyal players whom have been in the game. The foundry is very unique, its content allows players who have outgrown the regular content a place to challenge themselves either by playing the authored content and/or writing it themselves. Also the foundry uses the same basic tools that you use to create content so bugs and what not should not be that great a issue in authoring the content. As for hosting and storing the content I urge you to consider the amount of time , money and resources the loyal players have put into the game and the foundry system. Whomever did your cost analysis for the foundry must not have taken these things into account or does not care about the loyalty of the players. If you cannot see the amount of revenue that you will lose due to this decision then there really is nothing for us to say. You announce a Foundry Spotlight then a couple days later announce its "sunset". I urge you to convene a panel to address this and to also invite and talk to players on how they feel, this content benefits the game as whole. You have just basically slapped some of your most loyal players "customers" in the face.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,757 Arc User
    spoon2012 wrote: »
    The foundry also houses a lot of accolades and personal endeavours that making them a lot easier to complete
    This is, if anything, just another reason to axe it. One should not be able to bypass the game's systems by exploiting a broken Foundry.
    spoon2012 wrote: »
    Normal queues dont pop every often forcing player to go into advanced runs
    Except this isn't how the TFO system works, at all.

    With the introduction of the Random TFO system, if you queue up for a normal TFO, the next people who hit the random button will be put into that normal TFO. Normal TFOs pop just as much as advanced does now, have for some time.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited March 4
    Conspiracy theories are not helpful.

    I'm sorry if this sound rude, but what do you want us to do? The post about it is in no way the whole truth, nor is it believable as it is. They must have a reason, so why not come out and say it immediately? Not that they are ever gonna answer to this thread - 'cause it's apparently not nice to criticize someone's work, and I'm talking about those that do so in a respectful manners, not the trolls - but I can bet they are watching and they will say whatever it is that, based on this thread, they will judge to be the most "acceptable" answer so as to minimize backslash from this decision.
    You can't really fault us for going with "conspiracy theories" when they are not being honest with us to begin with.


    Well, I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but maybe you could try just taking them at their word rather than spout nonsense. They have admitted to no longer having the developers that had the knowledge about the system to maintain it. They have admitted to not having the resources and time to maintain it and continue to develop other areas of the game.

    Those ARE the reasons that the Foundry is coming down and they have said as much.

    That you chose not to believe them is on you. And quite frankly, even if they did have more to say on the subject, you've presented yourself as someone who wouldn't necessarily believe that either. After all, they're the developers and what they say can't be trusted, right? There's always going to be some other secret reasons, some conspiracy to you lot as to why. So, yes, I can "fault" you for going with your conspiracy theories when you're not going to believe what you're told anyway.

    You're assuming quite a lot from a single forum post, but that's fine. You're behind your screen, I'm behind mine. We don't know each other, so it's very easy to simply go with first impressions.
    Just to clarify some things, though: I never said what the devs say can't be trusted, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth because yes, that is indeed very rude. Not to mention uncalled for. And before you say I may have implied it with my post, that is absolutely not what I had in mind when I wrote it, so there.

    Af for the rest, the Foundry was introduced on the Tribble in 2010 and then went live in 2011. Since then, not only has it never made it past the "beta" phase, but the last meaningful change came with Delta Rising, or right after that, when they introduced the Top 3 system. The only other change came soon after the Foundry went live, (maybe a couple of years? Don't remember exactly, it's been a long time), when they introduced the tipping system, allowing players to donate a small amount of dylithium to the founder author if they so choose.
    The bugs that have been reported since it came live are still there, the new ones that presented themselves after eache new season are still there. This seems to indicate that the amount of work, time and money spent to maintain the system has ever been minimal, at best. So, since they are not doing anything with it but bringing it down from time to time, I'm afraid I will not believe that not having the "developers that had the knowledge about the system to maintain it" is the real reason why they are bringing it down.

    With this, I bid you goodnight and farewell. Rest assured, I will not bring my views on the matter here - or in any other public posts - anymore. If you so choose, though, I'm more than happy to continue this discussion in private.
    In the mean time, thank you for the work you do in moderating the forums and keeping them a place where people can come to exchange ideas and thoughts with each other. Keep up the good work.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,570 Community Moderator
    mattdoody wrote: »
    Is this because you dont think the foundry is a money maker?
    No, it's because they know most people don't care.

    No, it's because they literally do not have the resources to maintain it. They know that people care. They care, and they wanted to keep it. They tried to keep it! They looked into many options to keep it in some form or another, but nothing was feasible.
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,757 Arc User
    They know that people care.
    If people cared then usage wouldn't have been less then 40% of the playerbase.

  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 612 Arc User
    40% is a lot, the Conservative party in the UK only has about 42% of the seats and it won the election so....
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,757 Arc User
    edited March 4
    40% is a lot, the Conservative party in the UK only has about 42% of the seats and it won the election so....
    LESS THAN.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,810 Arc User
    40% is a lot, the Conservative party in the UK only has about 42% of the seats and it won the election so....
    LESS THAN.

    So I take it by this math the PvP numbers are in the less than 2% ?
  • centurian821centurian821 Member Posts: 231 Arc User
    They know that people care.
    If people cared then usage wouldn't have been less then 40% of the playerbase.

    False assumption. People have the ability to care about something and yet not use it due to varying circumstances.
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 612 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > marty123#3757 wrote: »
    >
    > 40% is a lot, the Conservative party in the UK only has about 42% of the seats and it won the election so....
    >
    >
    >
    > LESS THAN.

    So, 39.999% is “less than” 40%
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 612 Arc User
    > @thay8472 said:
    > mattjohnsonva wrote: »
    >
    > What we need is a strike. One week from 11th April, nobody login.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That'll never work ... I've got a better idea but I need to see if it works first.

    I will support you in whatever your plan to save the foundry is
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,757 Arc User
    edited March 4
    Flaming/trolling redacted. Knock it off. — WingedHussar

    Post edited by wingedhussar#7584 on
  • gulremalgulremal Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    This isn't even exclusive to STO. Bethesda games such as the Elder Scrolls series, and the newer Fallout games, are famous for their vast modding communities. There are nearly 60,000 mods for Skyrim alone. However, while this number seems impressive, based on Bethesda's actual data, less then 20% of PC players actually use mods, even less use them frequently. Even with the introduction of mods on consoles, even LESS people use mods there then on PC.

    Any links for these claims?
    And yes, less people use mods when you put them behind paywall. No big surprise here.
    The simple fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter how famous the community is, how good you make the tools, how easy you make it to find this stuff, the overwhelming majority of video game players simply do not care in the slightest about user generated content at all, and will never use it no matter how much is offered.

    Majority of players are nowadays casuals who care very little for additional content in general, that's for sure. But that's squarely problem of gaming industry's own making, for watering down their content and looking for lowest common denominator.
    This is why most games don't even bother to release modding tools, and why even Bethesda has taken longer and longer each time to release the Creation Kit modding tools for each new game they make. It isn't simply isn't worth their time since they know no matter how much effort they put into it the vast majority of people just don't care.

    Bethesda's been sitting on their laurels for too long. Every new game they make is buggier and more lazy mess - I can't even play their games anymore without some heavy modding to even make them baseline enjoyable. "Less investment for all the money" is the motto of the game, and unique selling points as modding tools are indeed going the way of Dodo.

    I'm not bashing on you or anything, just lamenting a sad state to which gaming industry has arrived. If there's any light at the end of the tunnel, it's probably a photon torpedo.

  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,570 Community Moderator
    You're assuming quite a lot from a single forum post, but that's fine. You're behind your screen, I'm behind mine. We don't know each other, so it's very easy to simply go with first impressions.
    Just to clarify some things, though: I never said what the devs say can't be trusted, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth because yes, that is indeed very rude. Not to mention uncalled for. And before you say I may have implied it with my post, that is absolutely not what I had in mind when I wrote it, so there.

    Well, my apologizes for my own assumptions, then. Ironically, it annoys me to see people making assumptions with regards to what the developers are/were thinking/feeling when they make decisions like this. Whether it's changing/revamping a system or, especially, removing a part of the game entirely, such decisions are never arrived at lightly or without thought and compassion.
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 1,593 Community Moderator
    If people cared then usage wouldn't have been less then 40% of the playerbase.

    The last infographic released showed 7 million active players. 40% of that is 2.8 million players. That's still a substantial amount of people. I don't like it anymore than anyone else here but I don't expect the business to keep going with it if it's not sustainable either.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • spoon2012spoon2012 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 4
    So your telling me as a member of the player base we have to not only grind harder for the personal endeavours but also have to prop up the players that dont know what there doing and that just dont have the gear or experience. I have no issue in help people, I do alot for this game both internal and external. The foundry gives players time to be creative and learn the dynamics of the game.

    Im sorry but the last few weeks the advanced PVE queues have been flooded with players and its getting to the point where my mid range 40k is struggling to prop up the rest of the player base.

    Im aware this is a separate subject however this will be a direct side effect of the foundry shutting down.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,757 Arc User
    edited March 4
    gulremal wrote: »
    Any links for these claims?
    Todd Howard has talked about it in a handful of interviews over the years, and after the claim was repeated a few years ago some people on Nexus took SteamSpy data on how many people owned the game, and compared it to how many unique downloads the top mods on the Nexus have, and the numbers were about 20% of the top most downloaded mods on the Nexus. Most mods had far lower numbers.
    gulremal wrote: »
    And yes, less people use mods when you put them behind paywall. No big surprise here.
    Except none of the mods are behind a paywall. All the mods on nexus, and on the consoles, are free.
    gulremal wrote: »
    Majority of players are nowadays casuals who care very little for additional content in general, that's for sure. But that's squarely problem of gaming industry's own making, for watering down their content and looking for lowest common denominator.
    Except this was true about modding even during the Morrowind days, long before this modern meme came about.
    gulremal wrote: »
    Bethesda's been sitting on their laurels for too long. Every new game they make is buggier and more lazy mess
    This is a 100% reversal of the facts. Even Arthmoor, the guy who makes the unofficial Patches for Bethesda games, has noted that each new Bethesda game is not only less buggy then the last one, but also has more official bug fixes then the last.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,901 Arc User
    Awww... this is too bad.
    As I was attempting more of the Cryptic created missions, I was finding them sub-par in story.
    I found I was getting into Foundry missions much more. More flavor, more intensity. And doing those in between the Cryptic events I liked.

    To all the Foundry Authors..... Thanks for your Missions! It really made STO better.
    It is a loss for new players and others who never explored the possibilities.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    natthaan wrote: »
    I am just as sadden to see the foundry go, since the very first day I started playing STO when the game went F2P, I always greatly enjoyed the chance to see what other players have created. But rather then being mad it's ending, I say we should all raise a glass and be glad we got the chance to use it and celebrate the good times.
    I put my hat off and my glass high for you, my good sir...
  • mihajlorsmihajlomihajlorsmihajlo Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited March 4
    I loved the Foundry. It is better part of star trek online. And Cryptic this is the worst decision that you have ever made.
    Post edited by mihajlorsmihajlo on
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,757 Arc User
    The last infographic released showed 7 million active players. 40% of that is 2.8 million players. That's still a substantial amount of people. I don't like it anymore than anyone else here but I don't expect the business to keep going with it if it's not sustainable either.
    A. That infographic included how many players there are between all platforms.
    B. The consoles don't have the Foundry, so you have to subtract out how many players the console version has from that calculation.
    C. FOR LIKE THE FOURTH TIME NOW... I SAID LESS THAN LESS THAN. Say it with me now. LESS. THAN.

    LESS THAN
    E
    S
    S
    T
    H
    A
    N

    So its even smaller then that.
  • spoon2012spoon2012 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Conspiracy theories are not helpful.

    I'm sorry if this sound rude, but what do you want us to do? The post about it is in no way the whole truth, nor is it believable as it is. They must have a reason, so why not come out and say it immediately? Not that they are ever gonna answer to this thread - 'cause it's apparently not nice to criticize someone's work, and I'm talking about those that do so in a respectful manners, not the trolls - but I can bet they are watching and they will say whatever it is that, based on this thread, they will judge to be the most "acceptable" answer so as to minimize backslash from this decision.
    You can't really fault us for going with "conspiracy theories" when they are not being honest with us to begin with.


    Well, I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but maybe you could try just taking them at their word rather than spout nonsense. They have admitted to no longer having the developers that had the knowledge about the system to maintain it. They have admitted to not having the resources and time to maintain it and continue to develop other areas of the game.

    Those ARE the reasons that the Foundry is coming down and they have said as much.

    That you chose not to believe them is on you. And quite frankly, even if they did have more to say on the subject, you've presented yourself as someone who wouldn't necessarily believe that either. After all, they're the developers and what they say can't be trusted, right? There's always going to be some other secret reasons, some conspiracy to you lot as to why. So, yes, I can "fault" you for going with your conspiracy theories when you're not going to believe what you're told anyway.

    You're assuming quite a lot from a single forum post, but that's fine. You're behind your screen, I'm behind mine. We don't know each other, so it's very easy to simply go with first impressions.
    Just to clarify some things, though: I never said what the devs say can't be trusted, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth because yes, that is indeed very rude. Not to mention uncalled for. And before you say I may have implied it with my post, that is absolutely not what I had in mind when I wrote it, so there.

    Af for the rest, the Foundry was introduced on the Tribble in 2010 and then went live in 2011. Since then, not only has it never made it past the "beta" phase, but the last meaningful change came with Delta Rising, or right after that, when they introduced the Top 3 system. The only other change came soon after the Foundry went live, (maybe a couple of years? Don't remember exactly, it's been a long time), when they introduced the tipping system, allowing players to donate a small amount of dylithium to the founder author if they so choose.
    The bugs that have been reported since it came live are still there, the new ones that presented themselves after eache new season are still there. This seems to indicate that the amount of work, time and money spent to maintain the system has ever been minimal, at best. So, since they are not doing anything with it but bringing it down from time to time, I'm afraid I will not believe that not having the "developers that had the knowledge about the system to maintain it" is the real reason why they are bringing it down.

    With this, I bid you goodnight and farewell. Rest assured, I will not bring my views on the matter here - or in any other public posts - anymore. If you so choose, though, I'm more than happy to continue this discussion in private.
    In the mean time, thank you for the work you do in moderating the forums and keeping them a place where people can come to exchange ideas and thoughts with each other. Keep up the good work.

    I totally appreciate what you are saying and in same aspects i agree, how ever what they are doing is not only a bad decision but going to cause a knock on effect in the entire game.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,032 Bug Hunter
    edited March 4
    The last infographic released showed 7 million active players. 40% of that is 2.8 million players. That's still a substantial amount of people. I don't like it anymore than anyone else here but I don't expect the business to keep going with it if it's not sustainable either.
    A. That infographic included how many players there are between all platforms.
    B. The consoles don't have the Foundry, so you have to subtract out how many players the console version has from that calculation.
    C. FOR LIKE THE FOURTH TIME NOW... I SAID LESS THAN LESS THAN. Say it with me now. LESS. THAN.

    LESS THAN
    E
    S
    S
    T
    H
    A
    N

    So its even smaller then that.

    It's still going to be between 35 and 39% or else the figure given would have been 'less than 30%' because of how people round things. People working things out as 40% is easier than 4 separate calculations so calm you knickers and let them get on with it.​​
    Post edited by artan42 on
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  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 1,860 Arc User

    I totally appreciate what you are saying and in same aspects i agree, how ever what they are doing is not only a bad decision but going to cause a knock on effect in the entire game. [/quote]

    Content has been removed throughout the game over the years and that has not had a knock on effect. As BMR has said they have explored ways at making it more sustainable in game wise but sadly the resources just aren't there. There are too many comments being left theorising this and that. But lets just wait and see what is said in the live stream.

    BTW that is one cool reward for spotlighters. I really think the Genesis Torp Ground Device looks cool.

  • centurian821centurian821 Member Posts: 231 Arc User
    If it's all going to be gone (creation, access, the lot) would it be possible for the devs to archive the information in the event that circumstances change and the Foundry can be resurrected?

    I just hate to think of all of the content that people have created going up in a puff of smoke.
  • bprangerbpranger Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Guys. you are going the wrong way... and that will surely lead you to a One-Way-Track without a U-Turn in sight!

    Absolutely correct. I am so disappointed that I cannot even express it in the polite language I prefer to speak. Please, Please, Please, Do Not Do This. It is the wrong business model. It is the wrong way of thinking. It is wrong to do this to your members and players. It is just wrong, wrong, wrong. You are condemning Star Trek to an early death. Think some more on this and listen to your players. If you no longer want to deal with the humans who created Foundry for you, then at least keep the existing Foundry games and episodes. They are a large part of what makes Star Trek the success it has been. And don't say "can't". There is no such thing as can't. BPRanger.
  • quepanquepan Member Posts: 518 Arc User
    spoon2012 wrote: »
    Ok removing the foundry is going to cause a hold load of grief to an already broken system,

    The foundry has a lot of talented players that create content and give players option and also give them a break from the missions

    The foundry also houses a lot of accolades and personal endeavours that making them a lot easier to complete

    Closing the foundry will force players into an already broken STF's opps sorry TFO's system, Normal queues dont pop every often forcing player to go into advanced runs where they are not experienced enough nore geared up right for those queues and its making a total mess of the system. I personally run into a level 20 player in a Defence of Star base One Advanced and they were getting there backside handed to them, thus expecting everyone else to carry the weight, This was introduced to help revitalise queues but its back fired and made them even worse. The higher level player base is being forced to take the weight of lower level players.

    Taking the foundry away is a bad idea, How about sort the TFO queues out in the same way WOW did to stabilise them before taking material away

    to be honest Cryptic should just Trash the PVE Queue system (TFOs ) period , spend the time and resources to Battlezone style content for all the Arcs grinding out TFOs for newier toons is painful at best , even with the randomized ones . they spent time developing the battlezone system only to sprinkle it in and update the PVE Queue , why is the PVP Queue still present? there are alot less playing that then foundry and that is also "LEGACY" code most likely seeing it has not had a update in YEARS . the issue is that Cryptic has great ideas but poor completion of said ideas thru out the game , just by playing the older content you can see it clearly once you get to LoR content and above . i would love to support the game in zen purchases , but the content value isn't there with the inconsistency in content overall . i find my time in sto is less and less due to these poor decisions
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