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Foundry Sunset, April 11th, 2019

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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,029 Community Moderator
    So glad to see that so many people's "final" words were in fact not. :mrgreen:
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  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    No need to put another flask of oil on the fire while it finally settled down to a reasonable discussion again, now would it?...
  • torduvidetorduvide Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I used to love this game, but it got dull and ever since I've sort of been on a "log in to grind events then don't log in until the next event" sort of "schedule." But there's one thing I always have found fun, the forge. Just not fun enough to ignore the fact that it wasn't rewarding. I always thought to myself "You know, if they ever made the forge experience better and more akin to story missions in their gear drops I'd probably play a ton more."

    But.. they never did that. Finding things was clunky and unreliable and the rewards were pretty terrible. If they had just given forge creators the ability to assign set piece loot or the like to the rewards of their missions I have zero doubt that there'd have been a significant amount more interest. And with that increased interest there'd be increased reason to revamp the forge and put the effort into de-spaghettiing its code so it didn't break with every patch.

    But this is essentially the same thing as running a tractor every single day for 13 hours a day since the day it was made with only the barest minimum of maintenance. Eventually it's just gonna get to the point where it's falling apart so much it's just better to get rid of the thing and get rid of whatever you were using it for, too.

    Personally, I've always found the "official" stuff to be bland, shallow, and just arbitrarily wide. Now a game where all of its content is like that instead of just most of it? Pity this is the only Star Trek MMO on the market. We really need one that isn't owned by an asian-grind company.

    I've gotta say, I definitely don't like the direction Cryptic has been going lately. No other company has ever had me almost instantly regret spending money on one of their products before. Oh, well. I don't know. Maybe it's just time to permanently move on from anything Cryptic. It's been a long while since I played any of their games as my "full-time" games because they only seem to want to make things that are fun for themselves and don't seem to quite realize that what they consider fun isn't what most others consider fun.

    Guess we'll see what happens. Really kind of says something that I've grown so disillusioned with Cryptic I'm this far behind on such huge updates to its games, STO and CO used to genuinely be my absolute favorite games but now I'm nearly a month behind a major sweeping change. /smh
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,705 Arc User
    Yeah, you know, I was planning to buy the T6 Vesta pack at the next ship sale. Now, though? I think I'll save my money.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,546 Arc User
    edited March 21
    Counter example: Halo's Forge (it's one of the most prominent examples of UGC in modern gaming, actively supported by the studio over more than a decade now with live development all the way). :|
    The Forge has been included in flavor of the month multiplayer FPSs, each of which died out the moment the next flavor of the month multiplayer FPS came out. Halo 3 isn't still going strong as a notable multiplyer FPS due to the existence of the Forge, and the Halo series in general has been in a steep decline in popularity and notoriety since Halo 3 came out. Not to mention the Forge system isn't on the same scale as something like an actual mission makers like The Foundry was.

    Sufficient context to resolve this discussion tangent. I don't think you understand what the forge is or how it has been implemented through the Halo series. See. referring strictly to Halo 3. If you don't have sufficient insight into a given topic it's best not to comment on it since it overreaches your rhetorical support. Ie. again minimizing UGC and this example of how it can continue to be supported well (see. Forge in Halo 5 and the MCC, it's a major engine of community creations which are frequently highlighted in blogs and in-game) by a major studio without that game being wholly dedicated to UGC. The Forge is a wonderful counter example (for what's been made by the Halo community) to that point which wholly nullifies it as any kind of rule. The forge was pretty well integrated into the game from Halo 3 on and despite continuous updates and major engine changes (ie. huge technical problems for which the original forge was probably not designed around) it was never so divorced from the underpinnings of the main game that it experienced the rampancy that ultimately resulted in the Foundry sunset (given that the technical issues surrounding the Foundry aren't specific to UGC, again, but a product of how the Foundry was originally implemented under the constraints Cryptic faced at the time.)

    You overgeneralized per UGC in gaming and made a statement which misrepresents the prospect of UGC done well in future Cryptic titles, should they ever want to approach something spiritually similar or wholly analogous to the Foundry at some uncertain date in the future on some game or another. Technical integration is what helps UGC (and other big systems with constructive impacts) thrive, not the hyperbole of sole focus. That's simply pushing for segregation, ie. setting the bar for discussion to "well, you can have it but just somewhere else." No, we could have had it in this community; just under some very different technical circumstances (major point of the original Ten Forward interview, BTW.)


    So glad to see that so many people's "final" words were in fact not. :mrgreen:

    And what exactly is the intention here? IMO it's a tad ambiguous and unfortunately so. If it's genuine joy at seeing people remain, great. Tardigrade hugs all round. But it could also be read as a senior community member taking satisfaction over a complex emotional process where the initial pain and shock of the sunset announcement eventually reconciles with other emotional attachments (ex. friends, community, a broader game that one loves) to arrive at some point other than complete detachment despite initial statements (though not necessarily where one was before.) Personally, I'd just leave them be. It's worth noting that simply remaining isn't a sign for a status quo re-asserting itself (it's a binary variable delineating an emotional gradient) and that comment like this (plausibly interpreted as "calling out reactions from deep pain as bluster") can push people further away from a feeling of community (in, at the very least, shining a spotlight on the process of reconciliation which is often a very personal thing.)

    Folks can still be pissed, hurt, dismayed, discouraged, demoralized, and/or a dozen other things besides while commenting on a topic. The game, as it is now, may also not have the inbuilt mechanisms necessary to correct for those personal downswings over the long term (the Foundry is special and Cryptic has not yet adjusted for its loss through other outlets for community creativity and interaction. [it's still very early]) Ergo, while one may be pleased to see people remain the circumstances by which they do so may be significantly changed (see. transitioning between stable states.) That will be a long term issue may folks will be dealing with (on top of the day to day issues of the game's evolution and further studio transitions) and careful consideration is required to navigate that in the most positive way possible.

    This was a big hit for many in the community.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,029 Community Moderator
    So glad to see that so many people's "final" words were in fact not. :mrgreen:

    And what exactly is the intention here? IMO it's a tad ambiguous and unfortunately so. If it's genuine joy at seeing people remain, great. Tardigrade hugs all round. But it could also be read as a senior community member taking satisfaction over a complex emotional process where the initial pain and shock of the sunset announcement eventually reconciles with other emotional attachments (ex. friends, community, a broader game that one loves) to arrive at some point other than complete detachment despite initial statements (though not necessarily where one was before.) Personally, I'd just leave them be. It's worth noting that simply remaining isn't a sign for a status quo re-asserting itself (it's a binary variable delineating an emotional gradient) and that comment like this (plausibly interpreted as "calling out reactions from deep pain as bluster") can push people further away from a feeling of community (in, at the very least, shining a spotlight on the process of reconciliation which is often a very personal thing.)

    Folks can still be pissed, hurt, dismayed, discouraged, demoralized, and/or a dozen other things besides while commenting on a topic. The game, as it is now, may also not have the inbuilt mechanisms necessary to correct for those personal downswings over the long term (the Foundry is special and Cryptic has not yet adjusted for its loss through other outlets for community creativity and interaction. [it's still very early]) Ergo, while one may be pleased to see people remain the circumstances by which they do so may be significantly changed (see. transitioning between stable states.) That will be a long term issue may folks will be dealing with (on top of the day to day issues of the game's evolution and further studio transitions) and careful consideration is required to navigate that in the most positive way possible.

    This was a big hit for many in the community.


    Actually, it is sincere, if said a bit tongue-in-cheek. I've always found the outcry of, "I'm done, I'm not talking about this anymore, this is my final word," to be a bit melodramatic. I am glad to see that there are those that haven't given up completely. :smile:
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    edited March 21
    So glad to see that so many people's "final" words were in fact not. :mrgreen:

    Perhaps like myself, they waiting for the first day the Foundry isn't there upon logging in. That's the case with myself. I want my last logon date to match.

    However plans may change, I'm starting to really look forward to leaving STO and the pure boredom of this last TFO may push me over the edge quicker.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,051 Arc User
    thanatos9t wrote: »
    No, not even close. I wish I could remember which episode it was, but in one of the Foundry Roundtable dev interviews we got to ask about that. Genesis is a dev tool, and not part of the game, at ALL. For example, and because I love sharing these old pics
    I was replying to the topic of procedural content rather than the Foundry itself.

    Space missions similar to the old removed exploration missions could still be implemented by Cryptic (not by users.)

    Using mechanics that are currently being used in certain TFO missions, for example enter a system, visuals are picked from a series of nebula types (like Days of Doom), scan x anomalies then face enemies from a random set of enemies (like Battle of Procyon v or Days of Doom).

    I am not sure apart from using the Genesis tool, how those missions are created/implemented.
    Object class function calls. Example: You define a set of purple clouds, a set of blue clouds, red/green/yellow/white, etc.... When you build a map you can place a specific cloud, OR you can call a function to place a random cloud. This is where the item sets you defined come into play. The game needs to know what are valid options to place when you tell it to place a purple cloud.

    None of this has anything to do with the Genesis tool :p
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,072 Arc User
    Sufficient context to resolve this discussion tangent. I don't think you understand what the forge is or how it has been implemented through the Halo series. .
    I was referring to the Forge as it has been used in all the Halo games it has been in. All Halo games are flavor of the month FPSs that basically die off when the next flavor of the month multiplayer FPS comes out. It has not kept Halo alive. It just keeps the last bits of flesh from falling off for a little bit longer.

  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    They shutdown Neverwinter Foundry today with the patch disabling the ability to accept quests. Just hours after patch they killed the editor. What happened to April 11th? If you guys are planning a Foundry farewell party, do it quick, as they have killed any chance of us having one on Neverwinter. Ian Darksword wanted to give the Foundry a send off, I have no idea what can be done now.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,051 Arc User
    They shutdown Neverwinter Foundry today with the patch disabling the ability to accept quests. Just hours after patch they killed the editor. What happened to April 11th? If you guys are planning a Foundry farewell party, do it quick, as they have killed any chance of us having one on Neverwinter. Ian Darksword wanted to give the Foundry a send off, I have no idea what can be done now.
    What? I played a Foundry mission in Neverwinter an hour or two ago.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • aspartan1aspartan1 Member Posts: 894 Arc User
    And furthermore, it is immature of us to make it a point to say that we're going to some other game because we don't like a decision that was made here, and then try to promote that game as if to rub salt in an open wound.

    That wasn't my intention. There can't be many people who have not heard of ESO, not gamers at least, it hardly needs advertising, I bet their coffee budget is bigger than Cryptic's entire turnover. It was just to tell folks where some of us were going to spend our time when not grinding STO, as that's all it is now, a continual grind. It certainly won't worry Zenimax if they are not mentioned on these pages and it won't make any difference to STO either. ESO is not a natural competitor for STO, EVE could be seen that way, perhaps No Man's Sky or Elite Dangerous, but even so, if folks are deciding to go spend some time in one of those games, the only thing it damages by not being allowed to spread the word is the community. (Flaming/Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)

    No doubt. I concur. In fact I reactivated my subscription which I let laps to focus on STO. I also spent $400 in total on the new x-pack and crowns to get squared away on everything I missed not playing it a couple years. That money was originally allocated for STO which I was going to spend in April. Now I'm just waiting to see what happens next...
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,546 Arc User
    edited March 22
    They shutdown Neverwinter Foundry today with the patch disabling the ability to accept quests. Just hours after patch they killed the editor. What happened to April 11th? If you guys are planning a Foundry farewell party, do it quick, as they have killed any chance of us having one on Neverwinter. Ian Darksword wanted to give the Foundry a send off, I have no idea what can be done now.
    What? I played a Foundry mission in Neverwinter an hour or two ago.

    Can you clear up something here? We are talking about this on the Facebook page and one guy is stating the following?

    "Siri Rellim: Have you actually been on the game? The Foundry has been disabled for a while in game.

    Siri Rellim Matt Johnson if you actually played NW, then you would know that for months if you tried to use the Foundry, it would say that it was unavailable. When you log in the button was grayed out and hovering your cursor over the button would result in the currently not available message. When they announced they were closing it down permanently people who actually play NW were not shocked in the least because it's already been unavailable. At least for NW PC."


    How can he say this if you were playing a few hours ago?

    Yeah I can confirm that Mark was able to play and search for NW Foundry missions and that the editor was very recently available for successful publishing. We and some other folks were going over it last night (after the last patch.)

    Also checked their twitter feeds, Julia hasn't posted anything about it and she's been fighting in the same corner Kael has for the Foundry. Those who can't access the NW foundry should reach out to her about it and do some additional user-side troubleshooting (ex. relog, restart, force verify.) Could be that something is up but exactly what requires more info
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,051 Arc User
    See?
    This was recorded yesterday.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,255 Arc User
    edited March 25
    (Flaming/Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,685 Arc User
    edited March 26
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,051 Arc User
    edited March 26
    They didn't close it early anywhere...
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited March 27
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,363 Arc User
    (Potential response to deleted comments or responses, deleted before being made. - LtM)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,685 Arc User
    edited March 27
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • doggydudedoggydude Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited March 27
    (Discussion of moderation removed. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited March 27
    (Response to moderated comments removed. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • doggydudedoggydude Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited March 27
    (Flaming/Trolling comments, discussion of moderation removed. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
This discussion has been closed.