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Foundry Sunset, April 11th, 2019

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  • aspartan1aspartan1 Member Posts: 894 Arc User
    Compared to most MMORPGs, STO releases content at a fairly fast pace. Most MMOs make you wait 4-5 months between new content, Cryptic cut that down to two since Delta Rising, and now they are doing something MONTHLY, be it a new TFO, new missions, or a new gameplay system. If you think Cryptic releases new content at a nsials pace, then most other MMOs much seem to move at a glacial pace.

    Seriously?

    In the last 12 months of ESO we have seen the following:

    Dragon Bones - 2 dungeons
    Wolfhunter - 2 dungeons
    Murkmire - concerns a previously unexplored region of Black Marsh, the story is about a dead clan of Argonians
    Wrathstone is about getting two parts of a mysterious tablet.
    Update 17 - includes a new outfit system, two new battlegrounds, a home storage system, and additional gameplay features such as a new level-up experience, and combat improvements such as refinements to Synergies, the removal of area-of-effect caps, changes to block costs, and more.
    Summerset - a full expansion pack based on Summerset Isle

    That's about 50 hours of content, much of it repeatable. In June they will release Elsweyr, another 30 hours of content.

    STO releases two missions every 3 months, that's about 90 minutes worth of content based on 45 min each playthrough, at that rate you're talking 6 hours a year, or around a tenth of the content from ESO.

    I can't comment on other MMOs because I don't play them. Of course, as has been said before, Cryptic is nowhere near the size of Zenimax and don't have paid for episodes, although most of the above are free for subscribers. That's their choice, they scrapped subbing, they went F2P, and have concentrated on a grind model with microtransactions, they live off ship sales as their employee noted in the Glassdoor review quoted earlier in this thread. The foundry filled the huge gap between content releases because a couple of hours every quarter an interesting experience does not make.

    It's nice that you stick up for all aspects of what Cryptic do, but you are flogging a dead horse here Som. Go back and read the hundreds of comments, no matter how much you try and convince others they did the right thing your arguments are falling on deaf ears because we are almost all annoyed and angry that the game has come to this. A software company who admits they cannot service parts of their own game, a game that collapses under a myriad of bugs on every release, on each platform, a game that is just one huge grind to enable ship and character improvement and yet offers nowhere to fully test and utilize those improved characters and ships. They have never reintroduced previous elite content such as the Borg STFs, so folks can no longer get their elite MACO and OMEGA costumes and besides HSE, which is way too easy nowadays, there are no real challenges left in the game other than foundry missions - and now they are removing that too.

    Let's just look at some of the problems:

    Broken PvP system
    Broken Cutscenes
    Broken Lighting
    Broken Effects (such as the warp out mix of DSC and standard)
    Broken Costumes
    Disorganised palettes
    Broken auto navigation in sector space
    Broken teaming
    Constant disconnects on map transfer
    Missing missions
    Unlocatable missions on some factions, e.g. Jem'Hadar
    Broken outfits, e.g. Vanguard EV suit on just about anything other than Oddy uniform
    Broken fleet holding fill - doesn't show until next one is slotted
    Broken ship tailors at most social zones - way too dark
    Broken gravimetric torp on Borg cubes
    Broken cloak on dialogue (since like forever)
    Broken overflow bag
    Broken email indicator
    Buggy exchange when searching for DOFFS
    Broken instance search (pressing O)
    Broken and missing accolades
    Broken and bugged queue system
    and a ton more

    Then there are the things that are started and never developed further

    New Romulus looks the same today as it did years ago!
    No new Faction specific missions, ie no continuing development of the Romulan story, the Jem'Hadar story, the ToS story, only the DISCO characters are continuing to get updated.

    Then there are the stupid things like level 50 battlezones for the Dyson sphere
    No update to the fleet system, like the much-requested armada mail since it was introduced.
    100,000 fleet admirals running around everywhere mining dilithium
    A totally pointless cooldown on transwarp abilities
    Space effects so out of control you can't even see your ship half the time unless you're in a J
    Insane damage from torpedoes of enemy ships from time to time on any difficulty level
    Patrols that you can only play once unless you drop before handing in effectively removing even more content

    Oh, the list is endless, but you know what made it all worthwhile? Playing the latest adventure from one of your fleet mates in a group, once you'd figured out the workarounds to let you actually play as a team because that is broken too.
    They've removed the most worthwhile aspect to the game, it will now only appeal to people up until they reach end game and realise there is no endgame, the endgame in STO is now space barbie and epeen displays, it's not PvP because that's beyond broken, it's not Elite STFs because they are mostly gone, it's not the elite battlezones because there aren't any. And now it's not the challenging missions written in the foundry because they are removing it.

    So you see why your defence of Cryptic is falling on deaf ears? And believe me, if it wasn't 2:25 am I'd be thinking up a shed load more examples but I'm tired, tired of people defending the indefensible, tired of being taken for a fool and tired of shelling out cash for something that never delivers. Well there's an answer to that, and if others think like I do, and I believe there are many who do, then Cryptic had better wake up and smell the coffee because things are about to get real.






    Wow! You said so many things I was concerned about saying because I assumed I would be banned for it. Bravo. You are not alone in your opinion. Despite my extreme displeasure with the progress of the development of the game I always have hope the next big thing will change things. This despite knowing PWE is not a company that develops high quality games but only grinders for maximum revenue streams. I know as I live in China now and I have to deal with Cryptic blocking me and the tech I need to use is illegal here so I actually run the risk of going to jail and being deported as well as of course losing my job to play STO. Maybe I'm too much of a trek fan...
    If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
    Former member of the Cryptic Family & Friends Testing Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
    Obscurea Chaotica Fleet (KDF), Commander
    2be6ed970a09519969c4dac3305791a31468474642.png
    Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
    The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè

  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,545 Arc User
    edited March 12
    Ie. while direct substitutes or fixes for the Foundry system are not tenable for the foreseeable future there's nothing stopping you guys from developing missions in the style of the best Foundry content (varying the expected pattern) besides your priorities. At the very least, try mixing things up more.

    How can we, when the foundry is gone? Do you mean writing them out like stories or are you referring to something else in the game? I don't see how we can develop missions.

    I'm suggesting Cryptic should develop more Foundry-like missions to compensate for the loss of more variable content (while also finally bringing this to the console audience.) And to be clear, I'm not suggesting ports (just adopting design lessons for what the STO format is capable of from Foundry missions.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • pendra37#5088 pendra37 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    aspartan1 wrote: »
    ...I always have hope the next big thing will change things...

    How old are you? You should really stop believing in miracles. Games should be judged on WYSIWYG bases, not on some vague hope of possible future potential. Is it good, fun and fleshed now? If not, and you are not playing some cheap early access game, then what you see is the sum total of the best effort of the developer team. If it is lacking then the team is lacking and you can't expect improvements.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,890 Arc User
    edited March 12
    foxman00 wrote: »
    I also think that we have what 5 - 6 fleet holdings now? Released over almost 7 years now. I feel cryptic are well aware that established fleets could potentially handle a new fleet holding, maybe, after this colony. However, I also feel that they are aware that trying to make a new fleet now, is a lot of work if said fleet is aiming for those holdings to be maxed out.
    I think another problem is that the fleet holding system has somewhat reached its natural end.

    I mean, if you think it about from an in-universe perspective we have
    1. A primary Starbase, based on either Fed or KDF design, that serves as our fleet's main hub within the two major powers.
    2. An embassy which connects the Fed/KDF to the Romulans, the third major power.
    3. A dilithium mine, which serves as our fleet's source of dilthium to power our ships.
    4. A colony world, where our fleet has established a new settlement on a remote world.
    5. Deep Space K-13. While another starbase, K-13 represents more out fleet's version of DS9. The remote outposts on the very edge of explored space where all the weird stuff is found.
    6. A spire that connects us to the technology of the Dyson Sphere.
    7. A research lab, where out fleet gets to deal with the powerful technology of the Krenim's time tech, and serves as our connection to our Delta Quadrant allies

    Besides having us begin construction of the New Khitomer super structure, or take over the Dominion's abandoned research lab from Victory is Life, to serve as a Gamma Quadrant/Dominion/Hur'q related fleet holding, there is really not much else for them to make a fleet holding out of.

    I have roughly the same view of the Specialization system, which is why I don't expect to see a new specialization any time soon. I guess endeavors were meant to serve as a somewhat sequel to the spec system.

    The reputation system is also somewhat in a similar situation. We are getting close to 6 missions, and 3 TFOs, into Age of Discovery, and there is no sign of a Discovery reputation in sight. Instead we have gotten T6 for existing reps, and systems like random TFOs which make getting those reps easier. We also know that, before they pivoted to AoD, Cryptic's original plan for post ViL was going to involve a Mirror Leeta story, and then seemingly a Borg story, and we already have a Mirror Universe, and Borg, reputations, I wonder if they had any new reps plan for those stories either.
    zorky63 wrote: »
    I love how through pages and pages you go on and on about how this that and the other systems are bad or beyond fixing ..., but PVP ... sure, that old system (older than the Foundry), ya that could be fixed.
    That is because both of them were. I hate PVP, and would prefer the other two over PVP, but history has shown the other two are either not fixable, or not doable, whereas PVP is.
    Oh, you mean like the Foundry, thousands of interesting missions provided for free to Cryptic by humans. And they are scrapping it - a company with that level of ineptitude doesn't deserve to continue and certainly doesn't deserve my money.
    No, because the Foundry wasn't real exploration either.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,890 Arc User
    Must you disagree with everyone about everything?
    I disagree with things I find wrong.

    What you describe isn't exploration, it's a side quest in a typical RPG.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 8,849 Arc User
    It's everything.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,545 Arc User
    edited March 12

    No, because the Foundry wasn't real exploration either.

    Marriam-Webster:
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exploring

    Entering into a Foundry mission through the top 3 system is the epitome of the basic definition of exploring/exploration. And you'll find that contemporary examples of exploration involved people finding things that other people have made or were formed through specific historical/geologic/evolutionary processes (not RNG). Procedural generation is an entirely artificial criterion used to define a genre of games as opposed to the act of exploration in the original (ie. real) sense of the word.

    I'll note again this has nothing to do with the Foundry as the reasons for removing it had more to do with functional replacement through the R+D system (coupled with bare content design in total which didn't provide much of a counter argument for its removal) than technical infeasibility of further maintenance (in spite of what's here in the Foundry.) See. the announcement blog then. You'll also note in that blog that Cryptic made the direct connection that the Foundry was serving as the direct functional replacement for the content contained in the old exploration system.

    See thread title: Foundry sunset.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • villainvilevillainvile Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    How about a Subscription System combined with the ZEN System for the Foundry (optional)?
    Original post from german community:
    STO begann als Abonnement-Spiel. Warum hat man nicht darüber nachgedacht, diese Option für die Foundry zurückzuholen? Rein optional und fakultativ, versteht sich und zu moderaten Preisen. Hätte man das ordentlich kommuniziert, ich wette, die Bereitschaft der Foundry-Autoren zu diesem Experiment wäre vorhanden gewesen. Es würde dem Zahlungswilligen exklusive zusätzliche Inhalte bieten und damit auch den Reiz, im Spiel weiterzumachen. Damit hätte man eine anständige Bedieneroberfläche für die Foundry erstellen können und wer weiß, Geld für die Weiterentwicklung des eigentlich Spiels wäre auch noch abgefallen. Der Impuls müsste natürlich von den Amerikanern ausgehen. Aber die bisherigen EULA's für die Erstellung von Foundry-Missionen waren glasklar, da hätte es nur einiger Anpassungen bedurft und schon wäre man wieder im Rennen gewesen. Und ganz ehrlich, die Spieler, die sich hier zu Wort melden mit dem Argument "Wir brauchen die Foundry nicht". Reisende soll man nicht aufhalten. Wer keine Foundrys spielen möchte, müsste ja auch nicht dafür bezahlen. ABER: unter marktwirtschaftlichen Gesichtspunkten betrachtet glaube ich, dass sich ein großer Teil der Spieler darauf eingelassen hätte. Gerade dann, wenn man das Foundry-Abonnement mit dem ZEN-System verknüpft hätte.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,890 Arc User
    Entering into a Foundry mission through the top 3 system is the epitome of the basic definition of exploring/exploration.
    Only in the way most removed from the meaning of the word exploration as it means to Star Trek. Though Star Trek had very little in the way of exploration itself outside of ENT and TOS.
    Procedural generation is an entirely artificial criterion used to define a genre of games as opposed to the act of exploration in the original (ie. real) sense of the word.
    I never made the claim procedural generation defined exploration. Only that games generally use such systems as a means to create exploration, and that those systems aren't very good.
    I'll note again this has nothing to do with the Foundry as the reasons for removing it had more to do with functional replacement through the R+D system (coupled with bare content design in total which didn't provide much of a counter argument for its removal) than technical infeasibility of further maintenance (in spite of what's here in the Foundry.) See. the announcement blog then. You'll also note in that blog that Cryptic made the direct connection that the Foundry was serving as the direct functional replacement for the content contained in the old exploration system.
    Do you mean exploration? The foundry hasn't been replaced with the R&D system, but the exploration system was axed because, partially, the R&D system, and the changes made to the acquisition of materials when R&D was changed, negated the last major reason they kept it around.

    And yes, I am aware that Cryptic made said claim. However, the content in the old exploration system wasn't exploration, and the content that replaced it was the same as the old exploration system was, aka, not exploration.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,360 Arc User
    How about a Subscription System combined with the ZEN System for the Foundry (optional)?
    Original post from german community:
    STO begann als Abonnement-Spiel. Warum hat man nicht darüber nachgedacht, diese Option für die Foundry zurückzuholen? Rein optional und fakultativ, versteht sich und zu moderaten Preisen. Hätte man das ordentlich kommuniziert, ich wette, die Bereitschaft der Foundry-Autoren zu diesem Experiment wäre vorhanden gewesen. Es würde dem Zahlungswilligen exklusive zusätzliche Inhalte bieten und damit auch den Reiz, im Spiel weiterzumachen. Damit hätte man eine anständige Bedieneroberfläche für die Foundry erstellen können und wer weiß, Geld für die Weiterentwicklung des eigentlich Spiels wäre auch noch abgefallen. Der Impuls müsste natürlich von den Amerikanern ausgehen. Aber die bisherigen EULA's für die Erstellung von Foundry-Missionen waren glasklar, da hätte es nur einiger Anpassungen bedurft und schon wäre man wieder im Rennen gewesen. Und ganz ehrlich, die Spieler, die sich hier zu Wort melden mit dem Argument "Wir brauchen die Foundry nicht". Reisende soll man nicht aufhalten. Wer keine Foundrys spielen möchte, müsste ja auch nicht dafür bezahlen. ABER: unter marktwirtschaftlichen Gesichtspunkten betrachtet glaube ich, dass sich ein großer Teil der Spieler darauf eingelassen hätte. Gerade dann, wenn man das Foundry-Abonnement mit dem ZEN-System verknüpft hätte.

    Two things to consider:
    1) There were already plenty of people that found it questionable that Cryptic would have players "do Cryptic's job" of providing content for Star Trek Online. If Cryptic is now taking money directly from creators and users of the system, it feels even more questionable. I could actually see that many creators would have no problem shelling out Zen for the ability to keep creating, but how many players would pay for the privilege of playing these missions? If the game as a whole couldn't survive on subscriptions, a subsystem of the game is not likely to fare better.

    2) More importantly perhaps - if Cryptic's Foundry usage number systems would suggest the system could pay for itself, I think the wouldn't have gone the route they are going now. Of course, they could underestimate how many players still play STO because they know there is the "potential" of creating or playing Foundry content, they just never get around to it, but that would be very speculative. They probably have a good idea of what they could do with their programmer time if they didn't spend in the Foundry, and how many players such features have attracted in the past.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • mellenyesmellenyes Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Just an idea - a completely separate, offline, single-player version of STO for them foundry missions. It doesn't matter for me if it'd be freeware or not. I'd gladly pay for it.
    Star Trek Offline lol

    Problem is, I don't know who or where should I speak this (if you do, please don't hesitate). And we all know that resistance to The Change is futile.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,545 Arc User
    edited March 12
    Only in the way most removed from the meaning of the word exploration as it means to Star Trek. Though Star Trek had very little in the way of exploration itself outside of ENT and TOS.

    "Explore strange new worlds and seek out new life and new civilizations"

    Encountering new worlds, civilization, and their granular mode of operation (see. people) has been part of every trek series.
    I never made the claim procedural generation defined exploration. Only that games generally use such systems as a means to create exploration, and that those systems aren't very good.

    And yet the alternative of blind content discovery through the foundry didn't count. You said this was not "real exploration." Considering how you define the rest of trek beyond ENT and TOS I don't think you're applying a consistent definition (either within gaming or American English.) It's simply a moving target, meaning whatever you wish at a given moment to perpetuate a tangent for the sake of minimizing the loss of the Foundry (ie. that a genuine exploration mechanic isn't be lost and that the game doesn't have a functional substitute for those style of missions [nevermind their UGC origin].) This is where separating the loss of the Foundry from exploration and other problems in legacy systems is important for discussion as it can identify secondary ramifications for loosing the system for which there may be ways of compensating without prohibitive system updates [ex. use exploration-focused foundry missions as a proof of concept for Cryptic mission design, improve upon what's been done and continue innovating on STO's mission format.]

    mellenyes wrote: »
    Just an idea - a completely separate, offline, single-player version of STO for them foundry missions. It doesn't matter for me if it'd be freeware or not. I'd gladly pay for it.
    Star Trek Offline lol

    Problem is, I don't know who or where should I speak this (if you do, please don't hesitate). And we all know that resistance to The Change is futile.

    Cryptic already explored the idea of separating Foundry content into its own version STO. Unfortunately there's a few layers of problems which make the idea practically and technically infeasible (per Kael's Ten Forward Weekly episode dedicated to the subject.) The decision to remove the Foundry was not taken lightly and the team explored every possibility they could for trying to save it.

    Never say never to the content coming back in some form at some undefined date in the future (they're saving all the data) but how this can be done is at present unclear (to say the least, from what we've been told.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • mellenyesmellenyes Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited March 12
    Thank you for the reply, duncanidaho11!
    I'm not saying about a separate server. but a separate game.
    An offline, single player only, "clone" of STO. with all the resources on my local hard disk. Kinda like it is when doing story missons lone wolf. just with features like chat/mail/exchange/PvP/etc. disabled. I can't imagine it being THAT hard to do.
    -...- I always take statements like "was not taken lightly" and "explored every possibility we could" with a grain... two grains of salt.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,700 Community Moderator
    Let's keep the thread on the topic of the FOUNDRY, and not derail off into other systems of the game, please.

    Also, there are folks still suggesting "solutions". Many of these have already been answered in the OP transcript. Please read it, or watch the video, before posting about any more "solutions". You should quickly realize that the shutdown is the solution. I hate to say that, and I don't mean to sound heartless about it, but #savethefoundry is not going to happen before April 11.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,212 Arc User
    Let's keep the thread on the topic of the FOUNDRY, and not derail off into other systems of the game, please.

    Also, there are folks still suggesting "solutions". Many of these have already been answered in the OP transcript. Please read it, or watch the video, before posting about any more "solutions". You should quickly realize that the shutdown is the solution. I hate to say that, and I don't mean to sound heartless about it, but #savethefoundry is not going to happen before April 11.


    So, April 12th then...Got it! ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • pomonagrange#3097 pomonagrange Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    #savethefoundry on-screen buttons and/or on Kickstarter (pledge either money or time/effort or both).

    (hides from BMM)
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,642 Arc User
    Let's keep the thread on the topic of the FOUNDRY, and not derail off into other systems of the game, please.

    Also, there are folks still suggesting "solutions". Many of these have already been answered in the OP transcript. Please read it, or watch the video, before posting about any more "solutions". You should quickly realize that the shutdown is the solution. I hate to say that, and I don't mean to sound heartless about it, but #savethefoundry is not going to happen before April 11.

    You just made my mind go numb... What is the solution for the loss of Faction-specific content and exploration-oriented missions which the foundry allowed for?
    I have no snarky remarks to make, at this time...
  • astroroblaastrorobla Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    @ambassadorkael#6946 is there any chance in this last month that former featured missions could be reinstated in the featured list for one last hurrah?

    My mission "The Interwarp Experiment" (first featured 10/11/2013) was pulled off the featured list some time ago (minor bug fixes I think on some patch or another) and for some reason or another I don't think I ever asked to have it reinstated.

    Better late than never?
    Now a top-rated spotlight mission!
    STO-sig.jpg
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 8,849 Arc User
    edited March 13
    The only reason that this Thread hasn't been closed is because it is in GNN. Be certain that on April 11th (or 12th if in a generous mood) it will be.
    Post edited by ltminns on
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • nagoraknagorak Member Posts: 880 Arc User
    edited March 13

    Two things to consider:
    1) There were already plenty of people that found it questionable that Cryptic would have players "do Cryptic's job" of providing content for Star Trek Online. If Cryptic is now taking money directly from creators and users of the system, it feels even more questionable. I could actually see that many creators would have no problem shelling out Zen for the ability to keep creating, but how many players would pay for the privilege of playing these missions? If the game as a whole couldn't survive on subscriptions, a subsystem of the game is not likely to fare better.

    2) More importantly perhaps - if Cryptic's Foundry usage number systems would suggest the system could pay for itself, I think the wouldn't have gone the route they are going now. Of course, they could underestimate how many players still play STO because they know there is the "potential" of creating or playing Foundry content, they just never get around to it, but that would be very speculative. They probably have a good idea of what they could do with their programmer time if they didn't spend in the Foundry, and how many players such features have attracted in the past.

    In regards to #1, Cryptic never did enough in the first place to support the Foundry authors by actually supporting the tool. In the six years I was away from the game they seriously could never add a "next" button so you could see mission #51+ on the list? I can't even imagine that functionality taking more than about an hour to program--half a day at the very most (if it requires more time than that it says more about the code being a mess than anything else). And, yes, it certainly was mentioned as a problem. A lot of things were mentioned as being problems, but back then nothing was done, and it seems nothing much was done since then.

    There's kind of two aspects to this story at this point. One is that the Foundry is going away, but the other is that the Foundry never fully arrived in the first place. So, as far as authors paying to be allowed to use the tool... Well, in its current state and current level of support I'm not sure it's really worth paying for?

    That's my main point about the Foundry though: Cryptic says it was essentially a failure, but how could it not be a failure when it never reached a mature point of development? The Foundry was never more than about three quarters done, and then it arguably started regressing pretty early on in its life.

    I actually have somewhat mixed feelings about the Foundry situation. On the one hand it is sad all of these stories are going away. I guess that is my major feeling. But on the other hand, if they're not going to do anything but keep the Foundry on life support for another X years then maybe it makes sense to simply pull the plug.

    The final thing to consider is that this announcement itself probably killed off a lot of the remaining interest in making missions. Even if they "change their mind", how many would have the confidence to spend dozens of hours making a mission when the Foundry was just recently on the chopping block? I'm sure there will always be a few, but a lot of people would be very reluctant to take that chance.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,890 Arc User
    edited March 13
    There is another solution, Cryptic could change their mind and thoroughly get behind the foundry.
    And do what? Spend hundreds of man hours completely remaking the foundry system from the ground up to appease the minority of the games players who used it in the first place at the expense of systems and content that most people in STO do use/would play?
    I would say though, it seems Cryptic have gone very quiet since last week, not many new announcements or general news, unless I missed it, I really don't think they expected this level of backlash, some of course, but not this much.
    Cryptic generally makes announcements on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and since the announcement we have seen
    -A design content
    -Console patch notes
    -A character creation UI revamp blog
    -Updates to the centaur class
    -Tzenekthi RA blog
    A pretty typical list of things.

    And the "backlash" has been rather small, and mostly from the same handful of people.
  • blazeritterblazeritter Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    There is another solution, Cryptic could change their mind and thoroughly get behind the foundry. The response from the community would be overwhelmingly favourable I am sure, the goodwill and support, both in spreading the word that Cryptic are devs who listen to their playerbase and who now realise what a terrible mistake removing this would be for the long term health of the game, and financial support as the players switch the funding taps back on. However, I doubt that will happen. I would say though, it seems Cryptic have gone very quiet since last week, not many new announcements or general news, unless I missed it, I really don't think they expected this level of backlash, some of course, but not this much.

    While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, the truth is that isn't how business works and will not happen. Once a decision like this has been made, the ONLY thing that will change it is irrefutable proof that this will have a strongly negative impact on revenue - enough to change the math of resource allocation. Something like a large group of whales (100+ maybe, not sure how many this game has) signing their names to a petition to reverse the decision and committing not to spend until it is. Maybe a coordinated boycott/no logins for a week to prove seriousness?

    That then turns into a waiting game, and the group will need to maintain their commitment, resisting whatever lure is brought forth (zen discount, special event, something) as response to prove they can't be bought off/distracted.

    I don't foresee that happening, though I would be happy to be proven wrong.
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