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Foundry Sunset, April 11th, 2019

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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,001 Arc User

    Another thing the Foundry did that the core game didn't, even though many to this day still want:

    It allowed faction specific content. How many times has someone started a thread asking for faction-specific content, only to be told that it won't happen, but if they really wanted it, give foundry a try.

    Good job, Cryptic... Good job...

    The devs do not want to do faction specific content. To do faction specific content means that they devote time to missions that only a portion of the player base would end up being able to play and split the playerbase. By keeping faction agnostic, they can provide content to all and not leave anyone out.

    The Foundry could have been monetized through the sale of resource packs that would allow foundry authors to buy sets of all assets introduced in the latest core game releases. The same way that new ships could have been introduced as NPC elements in core game missions and sold on the C-store for those who wanted them. And they could have switched to a recurring foundry token fee to maintain an unlimited number of foundry mission slots. Foundry tokens could have been sold on the C-store in stacks of different sizes, priced low enough that even the largest stack could easily be affordable with zen purchased on the dilithium exchange in a month. And with the option to tip the author for a good experience, a significant amount of the cost could be mitigated.

    Of course, no monetization of the foundry would have flown with so many glaring issues with it, so those would have needed to be fixed, and the foundry functionality improved, and therein lies the problem that brings us back to PWE not willing to allocate funds to hire someone to deal with the foundry. And clearly, it seems that the Cryptic team has shrunk more than we may realize, whether the employees were fired or left on their own is irrelevant. PWE clearly is not willing to authorize the hiring of replacements, choosing to absorb the funds that were paying for the now departed staff into their profits. It is the only explanation.

    I do not know of a single dev team that doesn't want their games to be the best they can be. But when the people who sign the paychecks are unwilling to allocate the funds needed for a staff large enough to make that happen, then the dev team is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They do not have someone that is not already working on something else that they can assign to the Foundry, so it cannot be fixed or improved. They cannot hire someone to improve it. Either way, they know it is going to be a broken mess for the foreseeable future, so they had to make a judgment call. Either let it remain a broken mess or eliminate it. It's a lose-lose position. People were raging about it being broken or buggy. Now people will rage that it is gone.

    The difference, I'm afraid, is that more people will not bother to play the game going forward than had they just left the foundry as-is. A side effect of so many things the foundry allowed them to experience that the core game does not and likely never will. So I really think that Cryptic shoes the greater of two evils here, and unless they have something in the pipeline that will fill all the voids that the loss of the Foundry will open up, then it could end up impacting the bottom line... Players wh do not play also will not pay...

    Except PWE has allowed them to hire people. You know the UI artist Joanna, the one responsible for the Character Creator revamp? She's there on the team at least 6 months now. There are people on the team also that recent. So don't say that PWE isn't willing to authorize hiring people that are needed. They just aren't authorizing people that the customers think should be utilized like programmers.

    The devs have stated that sunsetting the Foundry was a hard choice that they all collectively made. There were some devs that did try and fight for the Foundry like CaptainGeko. I think they feel that with the Foundry closed, they can actually focus on the core of the game since they won't have to devote programmers time to fixing the Foundry every time they force it to go down with and update. It probably won't be updates that we want to see most.

    I want to say that I've been here through every major decision since 2012 when it comes to the game. Not once did any of these decisions make me say, "this is the last straw, I'm quitting!" every time that something that we had in game was removed. I soldiered on. I may not be a paying player, but what keeps me logging into the game is that I have unfinished characters and story arcs. When I play, I usually hop on my main character which is my Tactical Delta Recruit (from the first run) and play through the story that is current, then figure out where I want to go from there. If there's an easy to do endeavor, the I'll do whatever is needed for that day, because I'm about playing through content, even if it's repeated. I support the game as a fan.
  • pomonagrange#3097 pomonagrange Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    I guess it depends on what type of computing system is most popular in Asia right now. Which might not be desktop PCs or laptops anymore. It might just be tablets, cell phones, and consoles. After all, what works in Asia should work in the rest of the world, right? We're all humans. Why *shouldn't* we do everything the same way? Because ... um ... being an individual is better than being part of a collective? Didn't anyone at PWE learn *anything* from the fictional Borg? I guess not.

    In any case, I guess that there's enough hole-filling material to keep the STO colander from sinking this year. (Provided they don't keep punching more holes in it.)

    *sighs and walks away*
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Or was my first assessment correct, and all this ignorance is in fact spilling from people who never coded a line in their lives, and wouldn't know a NAND gate from a Nancy strip?

    You're very high and mighty in your repeated statement of this point with basically no variety. But all it is a straw man that only claims the current state is unavoidable while failing to even consider the far more important errors Cryptic made that resulted in that current state.

    Just for clarity, I am a professional programmer, and I know that good code isn't like walking the dog. But I also know the difference between a good shop that defines reasonable goals, is properly funded to achieve them, has excellent project management, excellent coding processes, and the ability to adjust to a changing market place- and those that don't. Such things are obvious even from outside a company.

    Cryptic has always been "those that don't", and it's no mystery at all how they've now reached the point where they can't support elements of their game.
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    > @pomonagrange#3097 said:
    > I guess it depends on what type of computing system is most popular in Asia right now. Which might not be desktop PCs or laptops anymore. It might just be tablets, cell phones, and consoles. After all, what works in Asia should work in the rest of the world, right? We're all humans. Why *shouldn't* we do everything the same way? Because ... um ... being an individual is better than being part of a collective? Didn't anyone at PWE learn *anything* from the fictional Borg? I guess not.
    >
    > In any case, I guess that there's enough hole-filling material to keep the STO colander from sinking this year. (Provided they don't keep punching more holes in it.)
    >
    > *sighs and walks away*

    There is a real Borg Collective right here on Earth, it’s called the European Union.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,685 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I'm just astonished at how many systems experts we have in this thread.

    And how many of you, exactly, have ever applied to work at Cryptic? They've been seeking systems programmers for years for this game, it's been on their website right along. I'd think all of you who know exactly how to solve the Foundry issues with just one or two dedicated software engineers would have been actually doing it, for pay, rather than just sniping from behind your keyboards.

    Or was my first assessment correct, and all this ignorance is in fact spilling from people who never coded a line in their lives, and wouldn't know a NAND gate from a Nancy strip?

    Just because the position is listed does not guarantee that it is really hiring. It's stupid, I know, but there are companies that keep positions listed even though they have already been filled, and even if they have no intention of hiring. I don't pretend to understand the mentality behind that, but there it is.

    And I am sorry, but you have no way of knowing whether or not anyone applied to the position. Maybe they have but never got a callback. I don't know and neither do you. Your comment does not help matters any more than anyone else's comments.

    The decision, stupid as I think it is, has been made, and nothing we say will change it. We just need to vent and get over it, just like we always do.

    So :P
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 118 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I'm just astonished at how many systems experts we have in this thread.

    And how many of you, exactly, have ever applied to work at Cryptic? They've been seeking systems programmers for years for this game, it's been on their website right along. I'd think all of you who know exactly how to solve the Foundry issues with just one or two dedicated software engineers would have been actually doing it, for pay, rather than just sniping from behind your keyboards.

    Or was my first assessment correct, and all this ignorance is in fact spilling from people who never coded a line in their lives, and wouldn't know a NAND gate from a Nancy strip?

    I find this funny in a outlandish way. A person need not know how to fix something to know what is needed to fix it. If i have a flat tire and need it fixed i either call a tow truck send the car to a shop and know that a grease monkey is needed to fix said tire issue. That or knowing how to fix the flat my self i can see that i need a jack and a tire iron to remove the busted tire and replace it with a new one.

    So knowing that a code monkey is needed to fix the issues the game has is in the same light as the flat tire. And as to us working for cryptic to fix the games bugs and other problems, Last i checked a customer is handing money to the company thus providing the funds to work on the game. One could even go so far as to say by its very nature this transfer of capital is for such silly notions as updating the product, correcting errors and bugs, And providing a benefit to the customers as a worth wile product.

    At some point the scales will tip regarding the value of the product in this case a game as a service. If any company fails to keep up with the reasonable demands of a customer base then it will end no longer having the funds to operate. And in this case there is plenty of feedback as to consider the ramifications of this action and what it might end up costing them.

    In the end it is there choice, and it has been to close the foundry. So if the results are detrimental it can't be said that people did not advise taking a different course.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,071 Arc User
    So knowing that a code monkey is needed to fix the issues the game has is in the same light as the flat tire. And as to us working for cryptic to fix the games bugs and other problems, Last i checked a customer is handing money to the company thus providing the funds to work on the game. One could even go so far as to say by its very nature this transfer of capital is for such silly notions as updating the product, correcting errors and bugs, And providing a benefit to the customers as a worth wile product.

    This comparison only works under the assumption that there is a code monkey that knows how to fix the Foudnry's code, the whole reason they are shutting it down is because there isn't.
  • nagoraknagorak Member Posts: 880 Arc User
    edited March 10

    Except PWE has allowed them to hire people. You know the UI artist Joanna, the one responsible for the Character Creator revamp? She's there on the team at least 6 months now. There are people on the team also that recent. So don't say that PWE isn't willing to authorize hiring people that are needed. They just aren't authorizing people that the customers think should be utilized like programmers.

    The devs have stated that sunsetting the Foundry was a hard choice that they all collectively made. There were some devs that did try and fight for the Foundry like CaptainGeko. I think they feel that with the Foundry closed, they can actually focus on the core of the game since they won't have to devote programmers time to fixing the Foundry every time they force it to go down with and update. It probably won't be updates that we want to see most.

    I want to say that I've been here through every major decision since 2012 when it comes to the game. Not once did any of these decisions make me say, "this is the last straw, I'm quitting!" every time that something that we had in game was removed. I soldiered on. I may not be a paying player, but what keeps me logging into the game is that I have unfinished characters and story arcs. When I play, I usually hop on my main character which is my Tactical Delta Recruit (from the first run) and play through the story that is current, then figure out where I want to go from there. If there's an easy to do endeavor, the I'll do whatever is needed for that day, because I'm about playing through content, even if it's repeated. I support the game as a fan.

    Well the question here is what happened to the previous UI designer? It's not like they never had one before. Hiring new people to replace others who quit doesn't actually increase the size of the team, so it's not as simple as going based off of new hires and job listings.

    It also sounds like Cryptic has quite a bit of churn, considering no one apparently understands the code of the Foundry anymore. Keep in mind this was a feature that only dates back about 6 or 7 years. It's not something from 1995, or even 2005.

    I don't know... to me it's been pretty obvious from the very start of STO that Cryptic only had limited resources to work with, and that didn't really seem to improve much after the PWE acquisition. I frankly have doubts whether dropping support for the Foundry is going to result in any meaningful improvements for the rest of the game. The systems programmers are not content designers, so it's not going to help there, and I don't really see any major need to revamp all of the systems again (just like the character creator UI overhaul, it's better, but wasn't really needed).
  • nagoraknagorak Member Posts: 880 Arc User
    So knowing that a code monkey is needed to fix the issues the game has is in the same light as the flat tire. And as to us working for cryptic to fix the games bugs and other problems, Last i checked a customer is handing money to the company thus providing the funds to work on the game. One could even go so far as to say by its very nature this transfer of capital is for such silly notions as updating the product, correcting errors and bugs, And providing a benefit to the customers as a worth wile product.

    This comparison only works under the assumption that there is a code monkey that knows how to fix the Foudnry's code, the whole reason they are shutting it down is because there isn't.

    Yeah, but how excusable is that really? Maybe it's not the fault of those working at Cryptic now, but there was some seriously poor leadership/management in the past that led to this.
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 118 Arc User
    So knowing that a code monkey is needed to fix the issues the game has is in the same light as the flat tire. And as to us working for cryptic to fix the games bugs and other problems, Last i checked a customer is handing money to the company thus providing the funds to work on the game. One could even go so far as to say by its very nature this transfer of capital is for such silly notions as updating the product, correcting errors and bugs, And providing a benefit to the customers as a worth wile product.

    This comparison only works under the assumption that there is a code monkey that knows how to fix the Foudnry's code, the whole reason they are shutting it down is because there isn't.

    I don't seam to remember at any point indicating that they had this person on staff. I may be wrong the game may take off and get thousands of players chomping at the bit to buy keys, ships, and bank space, doff space, inventory space, and be all the better for cutting the foundry off. Then again people may look and say hm... i ran all the games content played every mission and ask them self what do i need more things for? Will a new ship drive a person to play everything again and think its a different game with a new ship?

    In short i don't expect to know how players will react. But i like everyone else still playing will find out one way or the other.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,071 Arc User
    edited March 10
    nagorak wrote: »
    Yeah, but how excusable is that really? Maybe it's not the fault of those working at Cryptic now, but there was some seriously poor leadership/management in the past that led to this.
    Sure.

    However, even if there wasn't, I suspect the Foundry would have likely been closed down at some point anyway due to it being a resource drain that doesn't directly bring in any profits unlike new missions, ships, costumes, starting experiences, etc. etc. do
    nagorak wrote: »
    I don't know... to me it's been pretty obvious from the very start of STO that Cryptic only had limited resources to work with, and that didn't really seem to improve much after the PWE acquisition.
    I don't really know how you can say that. Compared to the launch era missions, and the Featured series missions, all the missions they have put out since being bought by PWE have been massively improved. Not to mention all the time and money they have been given to revamp most of the game's core features from the skills system, crafting, and kits, to lighting and animation.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,685 Arc User
    nagorak wrote: »
    So knowing that a code monkey is needed to fix the issues the game has is in the same light as the flat tire. And as to us working for cryptic to fix the games bugs and other problems, Last i checked a customer is handing money to the company thus providing the funds to work on the game. One could even go so far as to say by its very nature this transfer of capital is for such silly notions as updating the product, correcting errors and bugs, And providing a benefit to the customers as a worth wile product.

    This comparison only works under the assumption that there is a code monkey that knows how to fix the Foudnry's code, the whole reason they are shutting it down is because there isn't.

    Yeah, but how excusable is that really? Maybe it's not the fault of those working at Cryptic now, but there was some seriously poor leadership/management in the past that led to this.

    There is an explanation that makes sense for this. If the foundry was originally coded as a personal side projects one of the developers took on rather than an officially assigned project, the core of the code could have been thrown together without documentation. We have to remember that Foundry was introduced during the Great Content Drought. I know because when they told us about it there was this whole, "So nw WE have to do your job for you and make our own content!?" argument. Foundry may well have been a stop gap measure, originally intended as a temporary solution to the problem Cryptic AND the community were facing due to Atari having laid off employees and was not hiring anyone else. Something HAD to be done. Foundry made a great deal of sense, and it did turn out to be a great feature going forward after that.

    This would also account for the difficulties that reared their ugly heads every time a major update to the core game. Even though they share assets, code pointers in the foundry would need to be updated separately. The core game may have some sort of global update processing that keeps things from going sideways that do not apply to the foundry. The more changes to the core, the more (most likely manual) corrections to the foundry would need to be made. Even if the code is documented, updating potentially hundreds of thousands of data references is a monumental task. And we know that there has not been a dedicated foundry dev, and the programmers they do have are busy with keeping the core game together.

    Well that may explain WHY the foundry cannot be maintained anymore, it does not make its removal from the game a pill that is any easier to swallow.

    What a shame...
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,685 Arc User
    There is an explanation that makes sense for this. If the foundry was originally coded as a personal side projects one of the developers took on rather than an officially assigned project, the core of the code could have been thrown together without documentation. We have to remember that Foundry was introduced during the Great Content Drought. I know because when they told us about it there was this whole, "So nw WE have to do your job for you and make our own content!?" argument. Foundry may well have been a stop gap measure, originally intended as a temporary solution to the problem Cryptic AND the community were facing due to Atari having laid off employees and was not hiring anyone else. Something HAD to be done. Foundry made a great deal of sense, and it did turn out to be a great feature going forward after that.

    The Foundry was an officially sanctioned project that took over a year to develop and was introduced in April 2011, before the content drought.

    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-04-01-star-trek-online-gets-foundry-tools



    No... it came out DURING the content drought. Like I said, when it was announced, the forum blew up with people screaming that it would give Cryptic an excuse to not create content because we would be doing their job for them. I was in the middle of those arguments as CaptainQuirk, trying to be a voice of reason... And failing...

    I stand corrected on the officially sanctioned part though. And like I said, it may not be a code problem so much as it is a data point reference problem that becomes more inconsistent between the core game and the foundry every time something significant gets changed in the core game. That can be just as bad as having to sort through undocumented code.

    It may well be, at this point, easier for them to create Foundry 2.0 than try to correct the current version. But at this time, we are told that there are currently no plans to revisit it. Not enough manpower with the required skillset. AKA, no code monkey available to deal with it.

    The are preserving a backup of all foundry missions, and that give me just a little hope that if their internal circumstances change, a new Foundry-like system may come about, Or they may find a way to make those missions playable.

    I don't know.
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,071 Arc User
    edited March 10
    This is precisely the same monolithic short-sighted thinking that must be present in the board room at Cryptic Studios. I'm not going to even begin to explain how ridiculous that statement is, most people reading this will recognise it immediately, I will just ask that you stop spouting this kind of utter tripe in this important thread.

    Here's a thought, the new AoD missions don't directly bring in any profits either, let's not bother with those shall we, in fact none of the missions bring in profit, why don't we save server space and just have sector space for folks to fly around in there directly profitable ships?

    No, really, you don't want to go there this time Som.
    This argument is all wrong.

    Things like new missions bring in profit because those sorts of releases get advertised on gaming websites which draw people's attention to the game, get people playing, and get them looking at all the things they can buy. Same thing with voice actors. Al Rivera talked about how them getting Chase Masterson and Denise Crosby to do VA work for STO caused some of the biggest jumps in STO players they had seen up to that point, which is why they keep getting more Trek actors to do VA work. Same thing with new "faction" starts. Even if its only a few missions, people love hearing "new way to start the game" plastered on a gaming article. The fact that all the factions merge into one storyline isn't even a negative since many MMOs do that, and its expected.

    If Cryptic dumped a whole bunch of time into improving the Foundry, it would likely not get registered on most gaming sites. Even if it did, most people wouldn't care since the overwhelming majority of gamers in general do not care about user created content in the slightest, and never will, because it simply isn't appealing to them. Most people play games for official content, official ships, official DLC, etc. etc. Bethesda Game Studios makes more money off of the game sales on consoles, and via DLC, then they do from the small minority of people who buy their games for modding reasons. They could cut out modding entirely and it would barely make a dent in their profits. It may actually save them some money since they don't have to spend increasingly long periods of time ripping out all the third party tools from the Creation Kit that they can't legally give out.

    Maintaining tools for user generated content is always a losing venture unless your game is built entirely around that idea like Garry's Mod, and other similar titles, are. This is why most game developers don't even try, and even the ones that do, like Bethesda, or Cryptic, put little to no effort into maintaining them. Why would they when they know every dollar spent on an offical DLC, or content drop, is going to make them 10 times more back then any dollar spent on modding/user generated content tools?

    Even if they tried to monetize it to turn that problem around, it would just create the same sort of backlash from the community that Bethesda saw with 100% optional paid mods for Skyrim and Fallout 4. Attempting to put a price on asset packs or w/e just angers them, draws them away, and makes putting effort into things like the Foundry even less appealing since now even fewer people are using it.
    Post edited by somtaawkhar on
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,001 Arc User
    There is an explanation that makes sense for this. If the foundry was originally coded as a personal side projects one of the developers took on rather than an officially assigned project, the core of the code could have been thrown together without documentation. We have to remember that Foundry was introduced during the Great Content Drought. I know because when they told us about it there was this whole, "So nw WE have to do your job for you and make our own content!?" argument. Foundry may well have been a stop gap measure, originally intended as a temporary solution to the problem Cryptic AND the community were facing due to Atari having laid off employees and was not hiring anyone else. Something HAD to be done. Foundry made a great deal of sense, and it did turn out to be a great feature going forward after that.

    The Foundry was an officially sanctioned project that took over a year to develop and was introduced in April 2011, before the content drought. The content drought began in March, 2012, when the last featured episode, the Reman-focused Cloaked Intentions missions, were released.

    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-04-01-star-trek-online-gets-foundry-tools

    For the record, it wasn't Cloaked Intentions that was released then, but the Lost Dominion/the 2800 Featured Series episodes, first released a week after the 2nd anniversary and completed after the 10th of March. Keep in mind though that the content drought was that of story only, as we had other content in that period.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,071 Arc User
    edited March 10
    patrickngo wrote: »
    so you're saying it's complicated and expensive, and therefore, not worth it. Gotcha. I can't argue with that. I can argue with whether it's truly not worth it, when the game really has very little to nothing to make it stand out in a glutted market, but that's a different discussion.
    Nope.

    I'm saying it can be successful, but you have to go all in on the idea from the get go like Garry's Mod did. Anything less just becomes a cash drain since that niche isn't particularly large, even in the largest of places such as Bethesda Games.

    It has to be the game itself, not just a feature in a game.
  • lagunadlagunad Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    Maybe one of the programmers at Cryptic could give some input in this thread and explain how difficult the transition would be.

    They already have. The original post wants you to believe:
    It turned out that it would take months of work for each individual mission

    Not days, not weeks, but MONTHS. And not months of work for all the missions, mind you, but months of work for EACH INDIVIDUAL MISSION.

    Ludicrous.
  • pendra37#5088 pendra37 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    It is funny. They finally admit that the current set of developers are worse than the past set of developers. So bad actually, that they can't maintain an existing feature. Not developing it or upgrading it, but simply keep it existing.
    The old employees who worked on its core creation should feel proud. They had a vision and the skill to created something that stood the test of time. Cryptic no longer has that vision or skill of the past.
  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 618 Arc User
    You know what, I can't be bothered any more. I spent my fortnightly £80 yesterday that was earmarked for Zen on a year's subscription to ESO. I was on STO for a couple of hours last night we had some fun with the handful who logged in and then we were done and I went back to ESO to check out the 400 quests I have yet to do.

    ESO sounds like a viable solution to me as well. Perhaps we will meet there, Matt !
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,685 Arc User
    ashstorm1 wrote: »
    You know what, I can't be bothered any more. I spent my fortnightly £80 yesterday that was earmarked for Zen on a year's subscription to ESO. I was on STO for a couple of hours last night we had some fun with the handful who logged in and then we were done and I went back to ESO to check out the 400 quests I have yet to do.

    ESO sounds like a viable solution to me as well. Perhaps we will meet there, Matt !

    ESO is a great MMO. You buy it, and then you can play the core content for free... The current bundle includes the core game and Morrowind expansion with the Summerset expansion available for purchase. And there are quite a few DLC quests you can buy. Or you can subscribe and gain access to everything... And you get daily rewards regardless of subscription status. It's got a very good crafting system that doesn't use anything like STO's dilithium as a required component. Once you know where to look you can find whatever you need. The PvP community is strong and meaningful. I've only been playing it solidly for a couple of months, but Bethesda/Zenimax know what they are doing, and their monetization comes from actual content rather than fluff that you have to gamble for. It doesn't have a foundry, but then the way they produce and release content, they don't really need it.

    I play ESO on Xbox, because I play with people I actually know and that is what they have. And for a console-run MMO, it works really well...

    Unlike this game which is nothing more than a massive grind that leaves eventually leaves you wondering why you bother. I lost STO in a computer crash a few months back and due to several projexts I have been working on, I have not had time to bother with it. I was going to reinstall it, but after the foundry announcement, I think I will leave it alone for now. I won't say "I quit," because this is not me quitting. Just going to extend my break from the game a while longer until this latest bad decision blows over. And who knows? Maybe they have some cool new mechanic coming that will mitigate the sense of loss to the game. Not holding my breath, but the wind never blows the same way forever.
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • pomonagrange#3097 pomonagrange Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited March 10
    Maybe one of the programmers at Cryptic could give some input in this thread and explain how difficult the transition would be.
    They already have. The original post wants you to believe:

    It turned out that it would take months of work for each individual mission

    Is the estimate of "months" direct from one of the programmers, or from a Cryptic spokesperson forced to say whatever PWE tells them to say? I'd rather hear from one of the programmers, to be honest. And it doesn't have to be a long, in depth answer from them. Just up front and honest. "This is the current time estimate from the programmers. This is their cost estimate. This is how much Foundry code they think would have to be changed to work with the current STO code. Simplified, this is the kind of STO code that keeps breaking the Foundry every time there's a new expansion." Maybe that's what they've been discussing for a year (probably less). If so, it would've been nice if they could've given us updates, to let us know what was going on. Maybe then some of us could've offered them our help (those of us who know how to program, I mean). It wouldn't be paid work for the playerbase to help out, of course. But then again, creating Foundry missions wasn't paid work either. It was a labor of love. Love that made all the blood, sweat, and tears worthwhile.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,071 Arc User
    edited March 10
    patrickngo wrote: »
    as i said, complicated AND expensive.
    Again, not at all true. User generated content can be done easily and cheaply, so long as the game is based around that from the beginning like Gmod is. Again, you just have to focus entirely on it since the niche isn't particularly large.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    There are other elements of the game that need the same treatment. Factions, for example, or PvP. all should be cut away and removed, to get the game down to a scale they can support.
    Cryptic support the factions in the same way most MMOs do, there is nothing about factions that needs to be removed. That your favorite faction isn't the sole focus of the game isn't an issue.
    Unlike this game which is nothing more than a massive grind that leaves eventually leaves you wondering why you bother.
    How do you play STO in a way that requires grinding in any significant manner? the game so over-showers you with rewards, be they marks, or dil, that you can get enough to buy almost anything in a matter of a few days.
    ESO is a great MMO.
    Its pretty fun, and has quite a bit of content. Even if much of that content is standard MMO fare of "collect 5X" quests. Though ESO does a great job of masking it behind a bit more story for those quests then most MMOs have.

    I utterly despise its monetization model though.
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