test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

new patch encourages to keep playing with "bad" builds?

scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
"
All "Complete TFO" Personal Endeavors have had their requirements changed at Medium and Hard difficulty. The new requirements are:

Easy = Complete 1 associated TFO (any difficulty)

Medium = Complete 2 associated TFOs (any difficulty)

Hard = Complete 3 associated TFOs (any difficulty)."


so previously hard required at last advanced difficulty am I correct?

the new patch lets beginners start faster on this which is nice but it also encourages ppl wiht badly put 2gether builds to stay that way instead of improving themselfes


and on top we need to play it 3 times now?



how about if u play it on normal u need 3 times, 2 on advanced

and if u manage elite, 1 would be enoughf?!


what do you think about that?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
«13

Comments

  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 6,338 Arc User
    This is a quality of life improvement. It lets un-geared people unwilling to read up or view up on the TFOs the chance to stay in normal difficulty instead of making PUGs fail in advanced and elite. Good for the lazy player, good for the other people in the queue that would have failed because of them.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 2,980 Arc User
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    how about if u play it on normal u need 3 times, 2 on advanced

    and if u manage elite, 1 would be enoughf?!


    what do you think about that?
    You get more endeavor points for completing the "harder" difficulty endeavors. It only makes sense to make them longer. It also doesn't encourage bad builds at all.

  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    how about if u play it on normal u need 3 times, 2 on advanced

    and if u manage elite, 1 would be enoughf?!


    what do you think about that?
    You get more endeavor points for completing the "harder" difficulty endeavors. It only makes sense to make them longer. It also doesn't encourage bad builds at all.

    hard like win 15000 GPL?

    but my suggestion is not makign it more ez? I am jsut suggesting that in addition to being able to complete it by playing 3x

    normal you can manage with 1x elite.... which is actually much harder than 3x normal eh?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,620 Arc User
    edited February 7
    Maybe they are trying to encourage players to play, not block them from trying at all?

    Additionally, were you ever blocked from any content in the game, while you were trying to learn it? Or trying to get your gear, rep, spec...etc... completed?
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." -- Captian Jean-Luc Picard

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 45,995 Arc User
    So... the OP is suggesting FLIPPING the hard and easy endeavors so that you have to do more for easy and less for hard...

    HOW is that going to encourage people to improve?

    We're not being required to run these on any particular difficulty level so... again... HOW is this going to encourage people to improve?
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 2,980 Arc User
    edited February 7
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    how about if u play it on normal u need 3 times, 2 on advanced

    and if u manage elite, 1 would be enoughf?!


    what do you think about that?
    You get more endeavor points for completing the "harder" difficulty endeavors. It only makes sense to make them longer. It also doesn't encourage bad builds at all.

    hard like win 15000 GPL?

    but my suggestion is not makign it more ez? I am jsut suggesting that in addition to being able to complete it by playing 3x

    normal you can manage with 1x elite.... which is actually much harder than 3x normal eh?
    I know what your suggestion is. I just think differently than you. I think it's fine the way it is. Leave the "hard" endeavors the way that they are. Harder.
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 7
    rattler2 wrote: »
    So... the OP is suggesting FLIPPING the hard and easy endeavors so that you have to do more for easy and less for hard...

    HOW is that going to encourage people to improve?

    We're not being required to run these on any particular difficulty level so... again... HOW is this going to encourage people to improve?

    what are you talkign about?

    how is doing 1 elite less hard than doing 3 normals? it is faster...yes... but ONLY if you can actually beat elite...which requires 4 others aswell

    @salazarraze I dont understand your point? leave it as it is (how they jsut changed it) play normal 3 times...hard
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 45,995 Arc User
    What am I talking about? I already said that we are NOT REQUIRED to run any particular difficulty level STF to get the STF stuff done. So even for the hard Endeavor it will count Normal difficulty level.

    On top of that... the Hard Endeavor is still a seperate entity from the Easy Endeavor. So even if you DID flip them you STILL have the other Endeavors to do.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    What am I talking about? I already said that we are NOT REQUIRED to run any particular difficulty level STF to get the STF stuff done. So even for the hard Endeavor it will count Normal difficulty level.

    On top of that... the Hard Endeavor is still a seperate entity from the Easy Endeavor. So even if you DID flip them you STILL have the other Endeavors to do.

    you didnt get MY point @rattler2 ... i dont want to change the ez or medium endevor I dont want to paly 3 times to complete the hard one


    and u also got someth else wrong... before the patch the hard one required at last ADVANCED difficutly

    now too many ppl complained and they removed that and now we all have to do 3 of what ever difficulty to complete the hard one
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 45,995 Arc User
    How does one single STF = Hard while 3 STFs = easy?
    You're working harder for less payout. All it will do is encourage people to not even BOTHER doing the easy Endeavor when it rolls over to STFs.

    I mean you are literally TRIPLING the amount of work for easy and cutting it by 1/3 for hard.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • charon83charon83 Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    How does one single STF = Hard while 3 STFs = easy?
    You're working harder for less payout. All it will do is encourage people to not even BOTHER doing the easy Endeavor when it rolls over to STFs.

    I mean you are literally TRIPLING the amount of work for easy and cutting it by 1/3 for hard.

    THIS, right now i'm only doing them if they're convenient and i can do them in a reasonable amount of time, but the moment i see i have to play 3 STFs instead of 1 (and even if it's 1, i'll skip stuff like gravity kills or any other that is time gated and gets you stuck there for 15+ minutes) i just won't bother, even if i can zip through them quickly. I do like the idea of giving more access to new players, but as the OP suggested, if you're then doing it on advanced or Elite it should give you extra points (i.e 2 runs on advanced, 1 on elite) that would prob get me to do most of them.

    But yeah, just my personal input on it. As of right now, a lot of times i already skip the big ones if they're inconvenient already, since grinding for 2 years every day just to "get it done" will not happen, i'll be happy having space done in 3-4 years with it, gives me something to look forward to i guess.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,412 Arc User
    Pretty sure the elite level task never required an advanced or higher mission to be run, it only specified the enemy to be fought, or rather the reputation for it to be from. I know i used normal missions plenty of times and got credit.

    The change makes perfect sense, no use having an advanced task that called for 3x Competitive TFO's but an elite task that only called for 1x Borg TFO. That sort of thing made no sense.
    Now it makes much more sense as the easy task are meant to be a quick 5-10 mins job, nothing to strenuous. The elite ones require actual effort hence asking for 3 missions.
    sTN5D7Q.png
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Pretty sure the elite level task never required an advanced or higher mission to be run, it only specified the enemy to be fought, or rather the reputation for it to be from. I know i used normal missions plenty of times and got credit.

    The change makes perfect sense, no use having an advanced task that called for 3x Competitive TFO's but an elite task that only called for 1x Borg TFO. That sort of thing made no sense.
    Now it makes much more sense as the easy task are meant to be a quick 5-10 mins job, nothing to strenuous. The elite ones require actual effort hence asking for 3 missions.

    it never said so but ppl complained that it didnt completed 4 them and @borticuscryptic said it on twitter

    so pretty sure it required advanced
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited February 7
    Previously, for the Red/Hard endeavors, 'Normal' mode didn't count - even though the task description didn't say anything about that. You had to do them on Advanced.

    If you were someone who has lower end gear, ships, traits or whatever... making the 'Hard' TFOs be 'Advanced only' could put you in a situation where you would be unable to complete the endeavor, or need to be carried by higher players.

    (There's a thread about the power gap between less geared and more geared players, but it seems to be mostly generating a lot of yelling from higher-geared players about "Don't nerf me because you're jealous!" for some reason)
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    Here's something you're not considering. While there are many out there with bad builds, due to how things were previously, without people having to run these TFOs. You know the old run red alerts, ISA, and CCA, for marks, that encouraged bad builds to continue, cause you don't need much of anything to complete them.

    Now you have the new random TFO for marks, on whatever difficulty you play. It doesn't encourage the continuation of bad builds. Because now, you have a lot of the more mechanical TFO's popping up. Ones that you can fail at, the Competitive one even more so. As these highlight build problems, as well as your ability to work as a team. This is something we haven't seen much of since the old Borg Elites. Which inspires the opposite really. You want to complete these, then what can you do to accomplish that?

    See where I'm going here?

    There are plenty of ways for people to learn about the TFOs, and even builds. Which, all come from other players. Now, accounting for bad builds, which is may not be the build itself, but the gear factor, i.e. they have the build, just not a lot of high end gear to go with it, you can still complete these on normal and advanced. The trick here is, you might need to hit up team chat, you know that long forgotten channel, and direct things a bit. I do this, when I see things aren't going as they should. You know, just give some basic directions, like, "take the bomb to the tzenkethi base." or for the comp queues, "work the floor console." or "take the charge to the door." You know just pointing people in the direction of what to do.

    Granted, the problem with the Competitive TFOs isn't completing them. It's getting people to actually play them. I got it as a Hard(Yellow) before this change, and it was complete 3 of them. It took me 5 hours in queue to do it. This change speed that up a bit, nothing more. As for the difficulty, well, I do them on my main mostly, so I'm usually completing all of these on advanced. Which from what I'm seeing with the Comp TFOs is the main problem. They take forever to get started.
    Cheating_zps1brwslhb.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,171 Arc User
    Heh, yeah, if you want to encourage people to try new things, making them do the HARD new things is not the best way to get them to learn.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,101 Arc User
    Either way, the "Hard" tasks aren't generally any 'harder', they're just longer. Kill 60 guys instead of 20, do 500k damage instead of 150k, etc. So why should the TFO tasks be any different?
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Either way, the "Hard" tasks aren't generally any 'harder', they're just longer. Kill 60 guys instead of 20, do 500k damage instead of 150k, etc. So why should the TFO tasks be any different?

    bc @kiralyn why not? why does it always have to be like this?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 677 Arc User
    Previously, for the Red/Hard endeavors, 'Normal' mode didn't count - even though the task description didn't say anything about that. You had to do them on Advanced.

    If you were someone who has lower end gear, ships, traits or whatever... making the 'Hard' TFOs be 'Advanced only' could put you in a situation where you would be unable to complete the endeavor, or need to be carried by higher players.

    (There's a thread about the power gap between less geared and more geared players, but it seems to be mostly generating a lot of yelling from higher-geared players about "Don't nerf me because you're jealous!" for some reason)

    Care to point us to the thread? Also, are you saying that there's no jealousy amongst any of the low-gear crowd?

    And if someone's got lower gear, unable to complete the endeavor, maybe they should work to improve. Take the time to get better gear/skills. Or call in friends to carry them.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,907 Arc User
    While giving more completion credit for harder difficulty would be nice, but this is overall a GOOD thing. Before when they forced people into advanced queues, people just leeched it and hoped that there was one or two players who could just carry rest of the team. I was wondering why most of my advanced runs were going so terrible until I learned that the hard endeavor forced people into advanced queues. So...yeah this change is good.
  • tm706tm706 Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    I see nothing wrong with making endeavours slightly more achievable and therefore the rewards with them. That allows players to perform better (with time) instead of forcing them into advanced or even elite queues when they don't have the ability to play them with a chance for success. Do you want to carry 4/5 of a team forced into ISA or HSE ? There needs to be a balance between achievable yet challenging and I believe they are doing an acceptable job in this case.
    Coffee is life.

    Message me in-game (@tm706) for help

    1st Alpha Quadrant Fleet
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 8,668 Arc User
    edited February 8
    > @tm706 said:
    > I see nothing wrong with making endeavours slightly more achievable and therefore the rewards with them. That allows players to perform better (with time) instead of forcing them into advanced or even elite queues when they don't have the ability to play them with a chance for success. Do you want to carry 4/5 of a team forced into ISA or HSE ? There needs to be a balance between achievable yet challenging and I believe they are doing an acceptable job in this case.

    Making things "more achievable" was the excuse for removing needed fail conditions from TFOs. It was TRIBBLE then and it's TRIBBLE now. Like Yoda said, failure is the greatest teacher.
    #TASinSTO
    #IStandWithCBS
    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 7,939 Arc User
    Up until today's patch I had never gotten a requirement to do a TFO in anything other than the Universal.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • lexusk19lexusk19 Member Posts: 1,131 Arc User
    OP is on something me thinks... There was never any requirement on them. I always ran normal just fine, unless it called out for an advanced que.
    gVOTFcj.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,777 Arc User
    edited February 8
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    "
    All "Complete TFO" Personal Endeavors have had their requirements changed at Medium and Hard difficulty. The new requirements are:

    Easy = Complete 1 associated TFO (any difficulty)

    Medium = Complete 2 associated TFOs (any difficulty)

    Hard = Complete 3 associated TFOs (any difficulty)."


    so previously hard required at last advanced difficulty am I correct?

    the new patch lets beginners start faster on this which is nice but it also encourages ppl wiht badly put 2gether builds to stay that way instead of improving themselfes


    and on top we need to play it 3 times now?



    how about if u play it on normal u need 3 times, 2 on advanced

    and if u manage elite, 1 would be enoughf?!


    what do you think about that?

    Wow wait wait wait…. You mean a direct game sided encouragement to get better and improve?!

    Am I reading this right cuz it feels like a first time ever in this game. :o

    I’d love it. <3
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • majorprankstermajorprankster Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    what do you think about that?

    I think Cryptic is trying to make the game more accessible to more people and that people like you, that play games and point out 'bad builds' in an effort to shame other players over gear and skill level, should be banned, so the rest of us can enjoy our entertaiment in peace.

    That's what I think.
    You asked.
  • pwstolemynamepwstolemyname Member Posts: 1,385 Arc User
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    "
    The new patch lets beginners start faster on this which is nice but it also encourages ppl with badly put 2gether builds to stay that way instead of improving themselves.

    I am not one of these people. I run far from bad builds and like to run the most difficult content possible. BUT... Why do people with badly put together builds have to improve themselves?

    I derive enjoyment from improvement and challenge, but I know many others that derive it from playing space barbie and tickling enemies with their ineffectual loadouts. Who are we to impose our idea of fun on them?

    I don't see a problem hear. If people are happy with the way they play then I don't think we need to try and change them. If they want to improve they will ask for help and we can assist them then. No need for the game to force them into it in the meantime.

  • tm706tm706 Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @tm706 said:
    > I see nothing wrong with making endeavours slightly more achievable and therefore the rewards with them. That allows players to perform better (with time) instead of forcing them into advanced or even elite queues when they don't have the ability to play them with a chance for success. Do you want to carry 4/5 of a team forced into ISA or HSE ? There needs to be a balance between achievable yet challenging and I believe they are doing an acceptable job in this case.

    Making things "more achievable" was the excuse for removing needed fail conditions from TFOs. It was TRIBBLE then and it's TRIBBLE now. Like Yoda said, failure is the greatest teacher.

    I stand by what I said. Allowing players to actually enjoy the game while balancing the punishment for not using a meta build isn't a bad thing. Failure stops teaching when people are denied any enjoyment at all and rage quit. This isn't real life. It's a game and should strike a balance between rewarding gameplay/enjoyment and difficulty/artificial barriers to everything.

    Coffee is life.

    Message me in-game (@tm706) for help

    1st Alpha Quadrant Fleet
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 8,668 Arc User
    > @tm706 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > > @tm706 said:
    > > I see nothing wrong with making endeavours slightly more achievable and therefore the rewards with them. That allows players to perform better (with time) instead of forcing them into advanced or even elite queues when they don't have the ability to play them with a chance for success. Do you want to carry 4/5 of a team forced into ISA or HSE ? There needs to be a balance between achievable yet challenging and I believe they are doing an acceptable job in this case.
    >
    > Making things "more achievable" was the excuse for removing needed fail conditions from TFOs. It was TRIBBLE then and it's TRIBBLE now. Like Yoda said, failure is the greatest teacher.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I stand by what I said. Allowing players to actually enjoy the game while balancing the punishment for not using a meta build isn't a bad thing. Failure stops teaching when people are denied any enjoyment at all and rage quit. This isn't real life. It's a game and should strike a balance between rewarding gameplay/enjoyment and difficulty/artificial barriers to everything.

    I don't use meta builds, in fact I purposefully use off meta builds. Having the higher difficulty levels actually be more difficult is not an artificial barrier. As well, in my opinion and experience, players who rage quit aren't willing to learn to begin with.
    #TASinSTO
    #IStandWithCBS
    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 45,995 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Making things "more achievable" was the excuse for removing needed fail conditions from TFOs. It was TRIBBLE then and it's TRIBBLE now. Like Yoda said, failure is the greatest teacher.

    At the same time... fail conditions made them way too easy to TROLL. Failing while actually trying is a learning experience... but you learn NOTHING if someone is out to fail you ON PURPOSE. Only thing it teaches you is "Don't PUG if you ever want to get anything done." Which in turn leads to dead queues.

    Back when they had fail conditions in Infected, I had a run where 4/5 of the team actually did try to do the mission, but that one guy decided to be a total TROLL, go to the OTHER side, and pop a transformer "looking for his spec point". He even SAID that he was "looking for his spec point" in team chat. He failed us ON PURPOSE for his own amusement. and 4 players ended up with a 30 minute cooldown with nothing to show for it.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
«13
This discussion has been closed.