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Wait...what? Crystalline entity update...?

nixbooxnixboox Member Posts: 830 Arc User
I just read about the update to the Crystalline entity where it no longer takes damage during its absorption phase...so why would we keep shooting at it? Part of the fun was to see if you could blow it up before it finished its first absorption phase...or the second.
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Comments

  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 6,646 Arc User
    I'm pleased. I prefer the event version, especially the blast wave radius indicator which tells you it's coming even when you're pointed away from the Entity.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,506 Arc User
    While it was fun to see just how quickly we could melt the snowflake...

    Its getting to the point where you get enough kinetic on you might as well just AFK because it isn't a fight.

    I personally like the changes because it means people have to do more than just park and shoot.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,335 Arc User
    Adding a few delays doesn't make it any more a fight. Just a longer park 'n' shoot.
  • sophlogimosophlogimo Member Posts: 6,474 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    While it was fun to see just how quickly we could melt the snowflake...

    Its getting to the point where you get enough kinetic on you might as well just AFK because it isn't a fight.

    I personally like the changes because it means people have to do more than just park and shoot.

    Totally agreed.

    But I am sure some people will whine in chat about how their uber-gear doesn't result in an instawin. Not here on the forums, that never happens, of course.
    DPS derives from gear, and gear alone.
  • bossheisenbergbossheisenberg Member Posts: 523 Arc User
    It was never intended to be something that you could burn through as fast as possible. The absurd levels of power creep have made that happen. I've been in CCA a few times in the last week that were over in 10 seconds - I believe there's a video of a 3 second run out there. Seems less fun to me that way.
  • nixbooxnixboox Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    It was never intended to be something that you could burn through as fast as possible. The absurd levels of power creep have made that happen. I've been in CCA a few times in the last week that were over in 10 seconds - I believe there's a video of a 3 second run out there. Seems less fun to me that way.

    That just means the devs should make the entity more adaptable, not dumb down the experience. The cocooned Hurq ship in the Gamma quadrant can only be hurt by a special weapon, the CE should be the same.

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,901 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    That just means the devs should make the entity more adaptable, not dumb down the experience. The cocooned Hurq ship in the Gamma quadrant can only be hurt by a special weapon, the CE should be the same.
    No one would slot torpedoes. So, it was kinda off the beaten path to have the CE vulnerable to kinetic damage.

    Maybe the "Snowflake" can be changed to be vulnerable to fire damage? Hee, hee, hee!
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,764 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    That just means the devs should make the entity more adaptable, not dumb down the experience.
    Except they did the literal exact opposite of dumbing it down, they made it more complex.

  • nixbooxnixboox Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    That just means the devs should make the entity more adaptable, not dumb down the experience.
    Except they did the literal exact opposite of dumbing it down, they made it more complex.

    There is literally nothing more complex about the new CE. It is less complex than before. It now takes no damage when its absorbing...before you had to balance the idea of increasing its absorption rate against the amount of damage you could possibly inflict. Now there's no reason to shoot at it during the absorption phase but people still will because they just want it to be over.

  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,764 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    It now takes no damage when its absorbing...before you had to balance the idea of increasing its absorption rate against the amount of damage you could possibly inflict.
    Except you didn't need to balance anything, you just kept shooting it and took the hit. You could literally just sit there and keep shooting it, now you can't actually encouraging you to play it the way it was meant to be played, and get out of the damn blast wave.

  • nixbooxnixboox Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    That just means the devs should make the entity more adaptable, not dumb down the experience. The cocooned Hurq ship in the Gamma quadrant can only be hurt by a special weapon, the CE should be the same.
    No one would slot torpedoes. So, it was kinda off the beaten path to have the CE vulnerable to kinetic damage.

    Maybe the "Snowflake" can be changed to be vulnerable to fire damage? Hee, hee, hee!

    I frequently wish that the devs would bother to come up with an actual understanding of the different damage types. The CE should be highly vulnerable to proton weapons and the harmonic process on the Preserver disruptor weapon. Each enemy we encounter should be particularly weak to a certain type of energy weapon as opposed to EVERY energy type being given overlapping processes. Remember when the Federation first encountered the Dominion and Dominion weapons cut right through Fed shields? Or when they encountered the Borg for the first time and were no match for their beam weapons?



  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 6,646 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    That just means the devs should make the entity more adaptable, not dumb down the experience. The cocooned Hurq ship in the Gamma quadrant can only be hurt by a special weapon, the CE should be the same.
    No one would slot torpedoes. So, it was kinda off the beaten path to have the CE vulnerable to kinetic damage.

    Maybe the "Snowflake" can be changed to be vulnerable to fire damage? Hee, hee, hee!

    I frequently wish that the devs would bother to come up with an actual understanding of the different damage types. The CE should be highly vulnerable to proton weapons and the harmonic process on the Preserver disruptor weapon. Each enemy we encounter should be particularly weak to a certain type of energy weapon as opposed to EVERY energy type being given overlapping processes. Remember when the Federation first encountered the Dominion and Dominion weapons cut right through Fed shields? Or when they encountered the Borg for the first time and were no match for their beam weapons?

    That sounds nice ... for the foundry.

    Cryptic needs to be able to create content for all players, not just the ones who can switch to any and every different gear set as needed.

    Cryptic has done this once or twice, like with the doomsday machine where you flew the captured Klingon ship and use the mumble'mumble torpedo. But for most content players want to fly their own ship with their own choice of gear.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,335 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    That just means the devs should make the entity more adaptable, not dumb down the experience. The cocooned Hurq ship in the Gamma quadrant can only be hurt by a special weapon, the CE should be the same.
    No one would slot torpedoes. So, it was kinda off the beaten path to have the CE vulnerable to kinetic damage.

    Maybe the "Snowflake" can be changed to be vulnerable to fire damage? Hee, hee, hee!

    I frequently wish that the devs would bother to come up with an actual understanding of the different damage types. The CE should be highly vulnerable to proton weapons and the harmonic process on the Preserver disruptor weapon. Each enemy we encounter should be particularly weak to a certain type of energy weapon as opposed to EVERY energy type being given overlapping processes. Remember when the Federation first encountered the Dominion and Dominion weapons cut right through Fed shields? Or when they encountered the Borg for the first time and were no match for their beam weapons?
    Yeah, me too. Practically every game I've ever seen that had damage types, had enemies resistant to some and weak to others. Like, what's the point of even having damage types if there is no "elemental rock-paper-scissors" to consider.
    Cryptic needs to be able to create content for all players, not just the ones who can switch to any and every different gear set as needed.
    If switching to different gear sets is never required, there is no point having different gear sets at all.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,764 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    Each enemy we encounter should be particularly weak to a certain type of energy weapon
    They are. Every enemy type in the game generally has lesser resistances to one or two types of damage compared to their resistances to the others.

    This is generally indicated in newer enemies by whatever damage type the reputation weapons are.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,335 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    Each enemy we encounter should be particularly weak to a certain type of energy weapon
    They are. Every enemy type in the game generally has lesser resistances to one or two types of damage compared to their resistances to the others.
    If that is the case, it's not apparent by anything in the game. Real damage type differences should not be something you have to parse a log to see.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,764 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    If that is the case, it's not apparent by anything in the game.
    Besides the fact they go down quicker.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,340 Arc User
    I remember back in season 5 when the conventional wisdom was that the CE was unbeatable and just don't bother trying. Now people whine cause they actually have to play the mission as intended.
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  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited January 7
    I agree with various points put forward here. Yes, the CCA was getting (in some cases, not always) too fast and easy.

    No, simply putting "invulnerability delay" timers on it doesn't fix the problem. As others have said, that simply makes it a longer park'n'shoot. As usual, Cryptic went for the easy option of "make things take longer without actually changing the process".

    Personally I would have gone for a three-phase approach:

    - One stage of Absorb, like now, even with the Invuln, where incoming damage strengthens the blast pulse.
    - One stage of Shimmer, where the entity has a Feedback Pulse that reflects 50% of all incoming energy damage back
    - One stage of Shatter, where all incoming kinetic/physical damage results in a spray of fast-moving shards shooting out in the direction of the incoming damage (sort of like a Cannon Spread Volley shooting back towards the incoming damage)

    That would make timing relevant, make damage selection relevant, make survival and healing and resistances relevant, and would still increase the time taken without just having a predictable "no damage" delay timer.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,335 Arc User
    edited January 7
    warpangel wrote: »
    If that is the case, it's not apparent by anything in the game.
    Besides the fact they go down quicker.
    Which, if it happens, is not apparent in the game.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,764 Arc User
    edited January 7
    warpangel wrote: »
    Which, if it happens, is not apparent in the game.
    Was apparent to me.

    Though, I don't min-max my ship to do 500k DPS and just smoke everything in two seconds either, so maybe i'm not so blinded by exploits that I never noticed it.
    - One stage of Shimmer, where the entity has a Feedback Pulse that reflects 50% of all incoming energy damage back
    So a stage where the player strat would be "just don't shoot it at this stage and wait for the next one"
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,335 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Which, if it happens, is not apparent in the game.
    Was apparent to me.
    Placebo effect.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,086 Arc User
    It was never intended to be something that you could burn through as fast as possible. The absurd levels of power creep have made that happen. I've been in CCA a few times in the last week that were over in 10 seconds - I believe there's a video of a 3 second run out there. Seems less fun to me that way.

    That video was a fake.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 6,736 Arc User
    edited January 8
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Which, if it happens, is not apparent in the game.
    Was apparent to me.

    Though, I don't min-max my ship to do 500k DPS and just smoke everything in two seconds either, so maybe i'm not so blinded by exploits that I never noticed it.
    - One stage of Shimmer, where the entity has a Feedback Pulse that reflects 50% of all incoming energy damage back
    So a stage where the player strat would be "just don't shoot it at this stage and wait for the next one"

    It would require a three-fold strategy, one for each stage:

    1) Run out of blast radius
    2) Use torps/mines/kinetic powers
    3) Use energy weapons/powers
    4) Repeat

    Now you know there would be some joker parked at 10 km spamming torp spreads when the kinetic power is up, causing CSV type attacks to blast through the ships at close range while trying to get to him.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,764 Arc User
    edited January 8
    brian334 wrote: »
    It would require a three-fold strategy, one for each stage:

    1) Run out of blast radius
    2) Use torps/mines/kinetic powers
    3) Use energy weapons/powers
    4) Repeat

    Now you know there would be some joker parked at 10 km spamming torp spreads when the kinetic power is up, causing CSV type attacks to blast through the ships at close range while trying to get to him.
    The problem with this is that it would require people to care about the strategy rather then care about their overall DPS in the game as a whole. But people don't. At most, people will just stick with whatever energy build they have now, and just spend the torp/mine/kenetic phase sitting around doing nothing waiting for the "spam energy weapons" so they can do that to win. Its one of those "in theory" and "on paper" things that doesn't actually translate to in-game.

    In many ways its like asking for more complex Boff stories and the like. People care more about their DPS then they do any BOFF's possible story, and thus hate being forced to have any BOFF on their roster(see the Tovan situation)
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 724 Arc User
    With the Random TFO's and the ability to earn Nukara marks or Fleet marks via them does anyone actually still play CCA. I've been seeing longer load times to get into one. but then might just be the holidays
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,587 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I remember back in season 5 when the conventional wisdom was that the CE was unbeatable and just don't bother trying. Now people whine cause they actually have to play the mission as intended.
    The devs outright told us that the reason for this was because 90% of the players who thought they knew what to do didn't.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,335 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    It would require a three-fold strategy, one for each stage:

    1) Run out of blast radius
    2) Use torps/mines/kinetic powers
    3) Use energy weapons/powers
    4) Repeat

    Now you know there would be some joker parked at 10 km spamming torp spreads when the kinetic power is up, causing CSV type attacks to blast through the ships at close range while trying to get to him.
    The problem with this is that it would require people to care about the strategy rather then care about their overall DPS in the game as a whole. But people don't. At most, people will just stick with whatever energy build they have now, and just spend the torp/mine/kenetic phase sitting around doing nothing waiting for the "spam energy weapons" so they can do that to win. Its one of those "in theory" and "on paper" things that doesn't actually translate to in-game.
    People don't care, because they don't have to. Because the game lets them just sit around waiting and win. There's nothing to lose by being complacent.

    Players will care about strategy if and only if it's required to do something they want to do, to get something they want to get. We could have content where waiting out timers or blindly spamming DPS would NOT advance the mission AND have that content give unique rewards players want. Then players would care.
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I remember back in season 5 when the conventional wisdom was that the CE was unbeatable and just don't bother trying. Now people whine cause they actually have to play the mission as intended.
    The devs outright told us that the reason for this was because 90% of the players who thought they knew what to do didn't.
    Which was actually very interesting, as opposed to the current version the devs spoonfeed the full solution to us in an announcement. Well, not that there's much of a "solution" needed to begin with, just shoot at it until it dies, the details are an optional curiosity at best.
  • nixbooxnixboox Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    Each enemy we encounter should be particularly weak to a certain type of energy weapon
    They are. Every enemy type in the game generally has lesser resistances to one or two types of damage compared to their resistances to the others.

    This is generally indicated in newer enemies by whatever damage type the reputation weapons are.

    Not at all. The reputation weapons are inspired by the season's content - they have really nothing at all to do with the enemy you fight. The fact that some reputation weapons add a special process to do extra harm to a particular enemy is not the same as that enemy having a weakness to a particular energy type.

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