NEW PVP MAP PLS

tribbletrouble

alloo!

xbox1 player here.

pls we need a new pvp map, like kerrat but no faction. so itmeans all vs all doesnt matter what faction you are. and u can team up in the map manually by inv to team.

map: everytime i start a new character ill end up in the HOBUS SYSTEM i love this map, it so stunning and beatiful. pls STO check it out and at least think about it. TYVM nice holidays!

grendelthewise

Probably not going to happen. The game was pvp for a long time and now just limited to one system. Which is a shame.

davefenestrator

Most players don't want PVP.

Most players won't spend money to support it.

They added the PVP rep with new PVP-specific consumables and gear. Most players either ignored it or tried PVP once and got stomped flat by the tiny minority that does play it and has the experience and gear for it.

Cryptic chooses to do things that brings in enough money to earn a profit, PVP is not one of those things.

People can claim they, their friends, and their fleet would all open their wallets and rain down cash to support more PVP options, but Cryptic has the real numbers and they are too small to justify the work.

People can claim Cryptic "hates PVP" but Cryptic definitely likes money. If PVP made more money than the gamble boxes then there'd be new PVP features every other month.

thevampinator

Well there is many reasons why Pvp isn't much on the table and why its mostly dead. Money is one of the issues another is how many devs they do have to make all the content and the main main reason why it is dead, is Balancing issues.
They could maybe revive Ground Pvp. Or make Ground content a lot better to give a chance for a new pvp community to come in maybe add games like capture the flag and do other ground pvp things like the stuff Eso has done with their battlegrounds and add a unique pvp reputation which marks can only be obtained by pvp queues. But don't count on them ever doing this and there might be a 95 or 99 percent chance that they won't.

Ship on Ship pvp so many ships with unfair advantages, ship vs ship pvp was where it was at back in the day before it all died. They would need a lot more devs, then they have now to go back and balance everything for there to be even a shot of it being revived and since pvp is well a small majority I don't think they will work on it any time soon or ever again. No matter what type of pvp it is ground or space they will need to do a lot of balancing to even have a chance of it players getting into it and reviving the pvp community they had at the start of the game. They would have to have a dedicated pvp team, and this would mean they would have to nerf a lot of the op dps that tends to sell and since money is important for them they won't do it. When they decide they want to re balance everything in the game then we will more then likely see pvp pick up if its done right but since they have many other things on their plate they won't. They would have to go through every lockbox, lobi, infinity promotion, free ships and cstore ships for every faction in the game. That is a lot of ships. Not sure how many but there has got to be over one hundred two hundred or even three hundred ships by now and they would have to go back over every single one of them and balancing them that would take a lot of time.

thevampinator

There was many factors, that led to the downfall. In the end it goes down to the players and the unbalance. They decided to go with more pve, and dps factor power creep true but then it was a business decision because a lot of the players liked power creep and they gave them it and it hurt the pvp players in the process but this is always a problem when ever there is both pve and pvp, balancing one always hurts the other it seems and players will complain about it wished this was not the case. The devs are not the ones that make the decisions when it comes to money Its the ones who run the company who runs the company. Perfect world wants money and so that is what they focus on. Finding ways to get it, Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, does not mean their dislikes take front and center. Because they do have to answer to someone else who then answers to someone else who then answers to someone else. That is how big corporations are these days. The devs have worked very hard and we do have to appreciate all their efforts. But one does have to see the full picture. We as humans need to be less judgemental of each other. We don't always get what we want. But we finally did get the teir 6 connies even if they are so expensive to get. That is a plus. We got the discovery ship that is a plus. We are getting new content that is the plus. Could they do more yes, but then they are already working hard so maybe we all should give them a break. Anyone can make dedicated pvp guilds that could restrict certain type of ships being used, and they can form their own balancing teams to say what is allowed and what isn't allowed in their pvp groups. Maybe the person who made the thread might be able to build a guild focused on pvp interaction. Going to other pvp maps that there are in the game, using pvp queue system to fight one another in a pvp guild. So anyone could rebuild the pvp communities even with the total unbalance and make balance for themselves and those who want to have fun pvping.

Can Pvp be toxic yes can pve be toxic yes. Do people have to be toxic no, building on foundations of good sportsmanship could be very beneficial to any community. Focusing on the good and not just the bad can make it a better place then just focusing on the negative. Maybe finding where the positives are and expand on them. With enough work there could be a postive very engaged pvp community if one was willing to create it. Sometimes the players must take on responsibilities even when those who made the game do not. Maybe instead of dev bashing we could all try and focus on seeing the positive and work to bring positive change. This is something even I need to work on being more positive.

thevampinator

patrickngo wrote: »

thevampinator wrote: »

There was many factors, that led to the downfall. In the end it goes down to the players and the unbalance. They decided to go with more pve, and dps factor power creep true but then it was a business decision because a lot of the players liked power creep and they gave them it and it hurt the pvp players in the process but this is always a problem when ever there is both pve and pvp, balancing one always hurts the other it seems and players will complain about it wished this was not the case. The devs are not the ones that make the decisions when it comes to money Its the ones who run the company who runs the company. Perfect world wants money and so that is what they focus on. Finding ways to get it, Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, does not mean their dislikes take front and center. Because they do have to answer to someone else who then answers to someone else who then answers to someone else. That is how big corporations are these days. The devs have worked very hard and we do have to appreciate all their efforts. But one does have to see the full picture. We as humans need to be less judgemental of each other. We don't always get what we want. But we finally did get the teir 6 connies even if they are so expensive to get. That is a plus. We got the discovery ship that is a plus. We are getting new content that is the plus. Could they do more yes, but then they are already working hard so maybe we all should give them a break. Anyone can make dedicated pvp guilds that could restrict certain type of ships being used, and they can form their own balancing teams to say what is allowed and what isn't allowed in their pvp groups. Maybe the person who made the thread might be able to build a guild focused on pvp interaction. Going to other pvp maps that there are in the game, using pvp queue system to fight one another in a pvp guild. So anyone could rebuild the pvp communities even with the total unbalance and make balance for themselves and those who want to have fun pvping.

Can Pvp be toxic yes can pve be toxic yes. Do people have to be toxic no, building on foundations of good sportsmanship could be very beneficial to any community. Focusing on the good and not just the bad can make it a better place then just focusing on the negative. Maybe finding where the positives are and expand on them. With enough work there could be a postive very engaged pvp community if one was willing to create it. Sometimes the players must take on responsibilities even when those who made the game do not. Maybe instead of dev bashing we could all try and focus on seeing the positive and work to bring positive change. This is something even I need to work on being more positive.

Vampinator, I've been through this cycle-on the side you're on, before. There have been SEVERAL attempts to revive PvP in this game.

followed by countermoves by Cryptic to put it back in the grave.

The fact is, it's not just the money, it was in Geko's statements that you will begin to see what's gone on on the side of Cryptic Studios.

Geko made, in 2012, a bold statement that ran counter to the 'conventional wisdom' of the time, when he announced that "MMOs don't need to have PvP to be successful".

this statement was made in an interview following the firing of Cryptic's only PvP developer, (Gozer).

At the time he made that statement, the conventional wisdom was that an MMO needed an active PvP community if it wanted to prosper.

Now follow along, because the next "Fun Geko Quote" is coming up;

At the release of the then-brand-new Tier 5 Excelsior, the ad team claimed it was 'the ultimate warship'. Within 72 hours of release on Holodeck, people were posting images and video of brand-new Excelsiors being taken out by KDF players in Ker'rat, and in FvK play.

His reaction was to declare that all PvP players were "Fourteen year old minmaxers living in their mother's basement."

see, what you're not getting, is that he had both a mission to prove PvP wasn't necessary, and a personal beef. This is never a good combination.

Later on in 2012 he demonstrated that he couldn't profitably sell ships to the KDF playerbase-which at the time, was largely comprised of and reliant on PvP-both comprised of PvP players and reliant on it to level. (You could, at the time still level doing PvP. that is no longer the case.)

after the failure of the Bortasque to meet sales projections, he ordered and enforced a two and a half year moratorium on KDF content that lasted into mid-2014, two weeks after Legacy of Romulus released, we got the 'starter' missions for KDF in PvE, and those missions were, to paraphrase multiple sources at Cryptic including Al Rivera, done off the books by staffers working in their nonexistent free time.

his beef with the KDF playerbase began with what happened with the Bortasque, but it also began with a player running a stock, non-c-store Bird of Prey humiliating his pet project and broadcasting it.

The man is that petty. thankfully, he's fairly honest about being that petty and has in the pre-2017 period made no bones about his hostility to both PvP players, and KDF players.

Keep in mind, at Launch, the then-president of the company cited KDf as "The PvP faction".

Does this help to clarify the situation? You get the playerbase you build as a game designer, and you shed the better part of the playerbase you intentionally neglect and/or intentionally drive off.

He did both. He's simply been fortunate in that this is a Trek IP, and Trekkies will buy used toilet paper if it's an Official Licensed Product, without hesitation, and that he was able to make use of Dan D'Angelo's experience with Wizards of the Coast in designing the "release broken, Nerf, release the replacement broken" business model that's kept Magic:The Gathering and Warhammer 40K in business.

thing they don't tell you, is that MtG and 40K both have experienced significant declines as their cash-rich, judgement-poor(but getting better) fan and playerbases have gone from using mommy's money to having to make their own, while paying bills.

WoTC has gone through several cycles of boom and bust, and there are lots of 'ex' magic players out there, but the CCG marketing model has a horizon, and if you don't actually own your IP, and have to pay royalties, the profit margin's a lot slimmer.

this game is nine years old this year. (2010 release, it's 2019 in a few days.) so in that aspect it was a good business decision-they were valuable enough to be rescued from bankruptcy by a chinese game company looking to make inroads into the U.S. Market and willing to be relatively hands-off, as long as the buyout financing is made back, plus some nice dividends.

but here's the rub: in 2010, it released incomplete, and really never 'got finished'. For a Gamer, there are better games on Steam for a lot less, and that's a market STO isn't equipped to handle, either in the structural condition, or the staffing.

and they already ran off most of the actual 'Gamer' market, with poor word of mouth handling a lot of the load as far as keeping fresh meat away, and that poor word of mouth?

they earned that.

they earned it by quarterly focus on that quarter's "majority", my friend, each quarter focusing tighter and tighter on the majority from the previous quarter, while playing Monty Haul as a DM and trying to buy loyalty with ever increasing powercreep.

There's no 'new audience' to lure in. Disco might bring a few, but they're unlikely to stay, because mechanically, the game is dumbed down to playskool levels in PvE, with a storyline that is a railroad and offers no reason other than stuff to repeat on a new character, and it's so wholly out of balance that the "Massive Nurf" in 2017(season 13) was rolled back before the ink was dry, losing the majority of the people they briefly lured back in when it looked like they might actually be serious about making STO a good game.

the console port bought them some breathing room, but console players are already discovering that the PvP and other advertised features are...uninspiring? badly handled, unbalanced, with a UI that is '90s levels of unweildy and stacked pop-ups that interrupt gameplay and a 'launch screen' that is just a repeat of the advertisements they were already ignoring in the loader. but placed inconveniently and 'breaking' often.

At this point, Cryptic would have to hire an entire dev staff just to unf*ck the code on the existing content sufficiently to rate as an "A" level game.

There is zero chance that the issues plaguing this game not only in PvP, but across the entire game, will be dealt with before the investors pull out or CBS decides to go find someone competent to lease the IP to (aka someone who can produce a Star Trek game that is actually a good game and will make the brand look good while advertising their pay show).

and without the name "Star Trek" on it, this game would have died in 2013 and nobody would have missed it.

Well that is his opinion but he has a boss and he has to answer to that boss. Even if he does not like it. People have their likes and dislikes, even if we want to fault them, we have our dislikes and likes as well. He does not like pvp and kdf. He is open and honest about it. Even then, even if he was going after the pvp community directly, he could just remove all pvp missions and areas from the game. Till then players can work around it and get better at doing that. So there could be a thriving pvp community so my view point I think still stands on that. As the saying goes when they go low, you go high. I made a posivity challenge, everyone has their positives even if they have their negatives. Maybe being positive about Al-Rivera instead of negative would be better. Show him love if he is showing contempt. One way to beat hate in the world is to love. Maybe showing him the positive side of the pvp community and kdf communities and not the negative can open up his heart. Wouldn't that be better then all the distrust and dislike from both him and the pvp community towards each other. So maybe lets list instead of Geckos negatives we talk about his positives. Lets talk about the good things he has done for Sto. Then leave this conversation not about him, but to the subject matter. Which is more pvp maps.

baddmoonrizin

Here we go again.

thevampinator

Well an idea is they add in an arena, filled with powerful pve foes, and at the same time having player on player action. Maybe a free for all chaos arena event. Vs both npcs and players fighting other players. They would have to do it in a way the game code allows. But maybe adding in a fun event or two. They have that arena in the one romulan story mission that they can reuse for this. They could also make more competing player vs player missions. where you have to reach an objective before the other team.

Maybe make these events as well. So players will be willing to do them. It might not be exactly pure pvp nor would it be balanced, but with events that involve getting a special item or 50000 dil players will do them. It could even get the community a little bit active again when it comes to pvp.

They are starting to add events with the age of discovery so they could maybe do a few discovery related pvp things. Maybe putting players in 23rd century ships with twenty third century weapons, Adding in an artificial balance the only thing is you can only equip your bridge officers and all the rest of the ships layout is preselected by those that make the pvp queue. If Bridge officer traits become to much of an issue they could even, disable those. Might even be the only true way they could add balanced pvp. Over time they can allow players the right to use some of the other discovery ships for pvp as they upgrade in a age of discovery pvp campaign however those ships would be only useable in Pvp queues with the predetermined weapons . They do in fact have the ability to do this as they use it in several missions already. One with the doomsday machine mission another with missions not sure which one that allows you to pilot a obelisk ship and the one where you take over a elachi ship. Oh can't forget the ambassador temporal mission where you were able to pilot the Enterprise C.

grendelthewise

davefenestrator wrote: »

Most players don't want PVP.

Most players either ignored it or tried PVP once and got stomped flat by the tiny minority that does play it and has the experience and gear for it.

Best line I have read for a few weeks now.

grendelthewise

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

Here we go again.

I was just thinking the same thing.

thevampinator

Well the Hobus system wouldn't be the best place for a pvp thing, as given its a restricted system. there are other systems that would maybe be a good place for pvp. Maybe a pvp zone in the binary stars system. If they ever decided to add it. Or maybe a pvp zone around a black hole! Having to fight players while fighting against a massive black hole. And maybe pve mobs at the same time.

tribbletrouble

just asked for a new map (hobus) free fight for all..
kerrat sux, bcs if kdf is outnunbered they cloak dont attack or go play tetris.. same on fed side.

pvp ques are dead, 7 in q for hours it wont pop..

just wanna log in pewpew for a few hours without waiting and log off.

its a shame we dont have that option this way, after all that investment we did.

if thats too much to ask idk, the devs can at least think about 1 vs 1 pvp ques, or 2 vs 2. this is really not alot of work, could be a thank you to all sick pvp players which invested so much to get everything buyable in game.

thevampinator

tribbletrouble#2946 wrote: »

just asked for a new map (hobus) free fight for all..
kerrat sux, bcs if kdf is outnunbered they cloak dont attack or go play tetris.. same on fed side.

pvp ques are dead, 7 in q for hours it wont pop..

just wanna log in pewpew for a few hours without waiting and log off.

its a shame we dont have that option this way, after all that investment we did.

if thats too much to ask idk, the devs can at least think about 1 vs 1 pvp ques, or 2 vs 2. this is really not alot of work, could be a thank you to all sick pvp players which invested so much to get everything buyable in game.

Make up your own guild of pvpers and build it up and have those pvp fights. There is one other star trek game, I played it is called Star Trek Legacy I didn't have internet back then so I have no idea how the mutiplayer works but I think its more built for pvp style fights. Star Trek Online has a lot of balancing issues, there are pvpers but the best bet is to join a pvp guild or make a pvp guild yourself. It would be the best way I think.

crypticarmsman

tribbletrouble#2946 wrote: »

alloo!

xbox1 player here.

pls we need a new pvp map, like kerrat but no faction. so itmeans all vs all doesnt matter what faction you are. and u can team up in the map manually by inv to team.

map: everytime i start a new character ill end up in the HOBUS SYSTEM i love this map, it so stunning and beatiful. pls STO check it out and at least think about it. TYVM nice holidays!

Cryptic...add to or care about PvP...Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Sorry, I realize you XBox players are effectively 'new'; but welcome to a Cryptic run game.]

ussvaliant

Sorry op but asking Cryptic for anything PvP related well

https://youtu.be/NIgfiSzCy1o

starswordc

@patrickngo: I actually find my PVE builds work pretty well in casual PVP: I vividly remember scoring several player kills in one of the Competitive queues in a freaking D'Khellra I was leveling. On a Sci Rom. And I'm hardly an expert on the game mechanics, never mind space-rich.

tribbletrouble

ok i try itagain..all i see here is big crying by all those old pvp ers who are still frustating and unloading it all in big non sense textes..

i want to log in Q and pop.. example 1vs1 ques..

i dont want to logg in and have to text 10 people to start a match in about an hour..

here is xbox, we dont have pvp chat channels..


i wanna logg in and play.. and dont want to loose time by texting and managing that TRIBBLE..

bam bam fun thats all i want nothing else!!

davefenestrator

We understand that, we are just trying to explain to you why it will not happen any time soon.

Most of the people playing STO want different gameplay than Fortnite, PUBG, COD, Battlefield. They don't want PVP.

You'll need to find other things you want to do in STO.

protoneous

tribbletrouble#2946 wrote: »

ok i try itagain..all i see here is big crying by all those old pvp ers who are still frustating and unloading it all in big non sense textes.. [...]

Not nonsense. What you got was a a lot of very accurate information from some knowledgeable long term players that are telling things as they are. I'm sorry that the game most likely won't provide the type of activity you're looking for in the quantity you'd like.

Most of the people playing STO want different gameplay than Fortnite, PUBG, COD, Battlefield. They don't want PVP

The PvP community left the building, so technically this is correct.

dracounguis

davefenestrator wrote: »

They added the PVP rep with new PVP-specific consumables and gear. Most players either ignored it or tried PVP once and got stomped flat by the tiny minority that does play it and has the experience and gear for it.

Yeah, you'd think that if you were the experienced PvPers and had a fresh pile of PvP noobs show up you'd restrain yourself so they feel like they had a chance and it was fun... but nope. You curbstomp them all and they never come back. You could say the PvPers killed off their last chance of getting PvP. Just couldn't control their bloodlust and ran off the new players.

Last time I foolishly tried to participate* in a PvP match I couldn't get 5yds away from the spawn point before being instantly killed.

*Since Cryptic defines 'participate' as 'win' a PvP match for the Endeavor, I've never tried it again.

starswordc

protoneous wrote: »

tribbletrouble#2946 wrote: »

ok i try itagain..all i see here is big crying by all those old pvp ers who are still frustating and unloading it all in big non sense textes.. [...]

Not nonsense. What you got was a a lot of very accurate information from some knowledgeable long term players that are telling things as they are. I'm sorry that the game most likely won't provide the type of activity you're looking for in the quantity you'd like.

Most of the people playing STO want different gameplay than Fortnite, PUBG, COD, Battlefield. They don't want PVP

The PvP community left the building, so technically this is correct.

It also doesn't hurt that the player population on consoles is significantly lower than on PC to begin with. That's not a "PC uber console" thing, @tribbletrouble#2946, BTW, it's just the logical result of the fact STO has been on PC for way longer than on consoles (not to mention Cryptic not letting well-established players import their save files, which has pros as well as cons).

coldnapalm wrote: »

starswordc wrote: »

@patrickngo: I actually find my PVE builds work pretty well in casual PVP: I vividly remember scoring several player kills in one of the Competitive queues in a freaking D'Khellra I was leveling. On a Sci Rom. And I'm hardly an expert on the game mechanics, never mind space-rich.

1) sci roms are the BEST choice for PvP. You make it sound like it was a bad thing to be a sci rom in PvP.

Like I said, not terribly well-versed on the game mechanics. I only even made a sci Fed Rom because I already had a Fed Tac and KDF Engi.

protoneous

davefenestrator wrote: »

They added the PVP rep with new PVP-specific consumables and gear. Most players either ignored it or tried PVP once and got stomped flat by the tiny minority that does play it and has the experience and gear for it.

Did I miss something? There's a Competitive Wargames reputation. Out of several queues only one has any player/player contact and only at the very end. All of them consist of two teams working to complete PvE tasks together with the faster team getting more marks. Most players didn't ignore the rep and some of the rep gear is currently meta (i.e. competitive engines) in PvE. I regularly see calls to group for Competitive Wargames queues on PC.

Cryptic's Competitive Wargames Reputation Link

tribbletrouble

how u loose new players in to pvp: 4vs4 or 5vs5 pvp ques, which will barely pop.. sometime u whait 3 hrs and no pop!! and when it pops, new players pop like popcorn and never will play again pvp.

how u win new players : 1 vs 1 pvp que, q will pop in seconds. and new players can get better in touch and talk, in matches or after. this way u can win new players in to it.

1vs1 map PLS HOBUS

davefenestrator

tribbletrouble#2946 wrote: »

how u loose new players in to pvp: 4vs4 or 5vs5 pvp ques, which will barely pop.. sometime u whait 3 hrs and no pop!! and when it pops, new players pop like popcorn and never will play again pvp.

how u win new players : 1 vs 1 pvp que, q will pop in seconds. and new players can get better in touch and talk, in matches or after. this way u can win new players in to it.

1vs1 map PLS HOBUS

1v1 PVP is a good idea for 2019. Give the people that wants PVP a way to keep doing it outside of private groups.

I'm not sure Cryptic can justify spending any development time at all on PVP, but one new 1v1 queue for the year seems like a worthwhile experiment.