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AFK penalty issue

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  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 3,979 Arc User
    Teamwork never heard of it. This games a single player grind where other players just happen to occupy the same map as you.

    haha, yes this is actually current meta
    Go pro or go home
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,849 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The problem with that plan is that you will have to push 6 + (2*5) + (3*4) + (4*3) + (5*2) = 50 consoles and you have less than 3 minutes to get them all, so you have a bit over 3 seconds to push each console. This is obviously physically impossible, as it will take longer than that just to run to the consoles, so this obvious naive solution is unworkable. I'm not saying it can't be done, because I DO know how to do it, but the method you're proposing doesn't work.
    I've done it like that every time I run that mission.

    And the "obvious naive solution" is to wait for it to solve itself automatically. That's just kinda boring.
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.

    Rather we love it or hate it.. this is a space/ground combat game.

    We could argue all day rather or not that is fitting for the Star Trek franchise, that's a whole other can of worms.. but the quicker you accept the reality of it, the easier things will be for you. Yes, doing the objectives is important, and players that focus on objectives are important and valuable. But like it or not, this is a combat game, and your contribution to a mission is measured as such.

    The compromise that has been made is that the bar for this contribution is set about as low as it can possibly go. In a map like Azure for example, kill one.. maybe 2 enemies and you're good. You can fly around the rest of the map doing nothing but disabling tractor beams and you'll be fine.

    If this does not appeal to you, if you do not wish to contribute anything to combat, then you're going to get an AFK. If you don't like that then your issue is with Cryptic and the people that designed the game, not with other players that are playing within those constraints. You can blame higher damage players all you want, but at the end of the day when you get hit with the AFK it's your own doing. Maybe one day they will change this, I honestly wish they would.. but for now this is what we have.

    Blaming other players for it will get you exactly nowhere.

    You know what in a nice way i am going to say back off. I am not attacking any one neither am i telling you anything that even comes close to needing your attacking of me.

    Do you even read the post i put up or do you just blindly skim over and then pop off ideals as to what you think i know or don't?

    Blaming other players if you even cared to read i said clearly i don't blame any one. You must have missed that little part?

    Again at just what point did i mention the franchise or even attempt to say anything about me liking or disliking combat? You simply decided what i like and then attempt to take some high ground and proceed to tell me just how the game is. I very well know how the game is i have stated it and that it revolves around damage where do you even get off on your tangent saying back just what i have already said.

    As to getting hit with a afk is my fault and telling me if i don't contribute then i'm going to get one. Where did you pull that from i have stated its rare i even get one but it happens. Again you cite me not liking combat and not helping you have twisted in your mind again some how you know just my likes and what i do.

    I have even simply stated these are my interactions and your results may vary. That is strait forward that not all people are playing in such a manor yet here you are saying i only blame dps players and my problem should be with cryptic. Again what problem is that id love to know what you seam to have gleaned just what my problem is. This is a thread about Afk and its effects on players and do you know i stated my issues i have seen regarding this issue and it revolves around yep you guessed it dps as the bench mark not objective based interaction.

    Read my posts before you feel the need to comment on them. (Edit from my self).

    This is as nice as i can be when i have some one attacking me with no basis for it.
    Post edited by roguealltrek on
    To be or not to be: B)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 7,892 Arc User
    You know what in a nice way i am going to say back off. I am not attacking any one neither am i telling you anything that even comes close to needing your attacking of me.

    If I had attacked you, you would know it.

    I assure you, I did not. You're reading my post from that perspective, but that's not the intent. With respect, your post was very hard to understand and I responded to the points I as best I could. If you took it as an attack on you personally then I offer you my apology as that was not the intent.

    While I do not retract anything I said, it was not intended to be insulting to you personally. I believe we have a breakdown in communication here, perhaps best we both say 'no hard feelings' and part ways on this issue.
    Diamond.jpg

    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    For tips, builds, guides and advice, be sure to visit The DPS League Site for all your needs.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,304 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.

    Rather we love it or hate it.. this is a space/ground combat game.

    We could argue all day rather or not that is fitting for the Star Trek franchise, that's a whole other can of worms.. but the quicker you accept the reality of it, the easier things will be for you. Yes, doing the objectives is important, and players that focus on objectives are important and valuable. But like it or not, this is a combat game, and your contribution to a mission is measured as such.

    The compromise that has been made is that the bar for this contribution is set about as low as it can possibly go. In a map like Azure for example, kill one.. maybe 2 enemies and you're good. You can fly around the rest of the map doing nothing but disabling tractor beams and you'll be fine.

    If this does not appeal to you, if you do not wish to contribute anything to combat, then you're going to get an AFK. If you don't like that then your issue is with Cryptic and the people that designed the game, not with other players that are playing within those constraints. You can blame higher damage players all you want, but at the end of the day when you get hit with the AFK it's your own doing. Maybe one day they will change this, I honestly wish they would.. but for now this is what we have.

    Blaming other players for it will get you exactly nowhere.

    You know what in a nice way i am going to say back off. I am not attacking any one neither am i telling you anything that even comes close to needing your attacking of me.

    Do you even read the post i put up or do you just blindly skim over and then pop off ideals as to what you think i know or don't?

    Blaming other players if you even cared to read i said clearly i don't blame any one. You must have missed that little part?

    Again at just what point did i mention the franchise or even attempt to say anything about me liking or disliking combat? You simply decided what i like and then attempt to take some high ground and proceed to tell me just how the game is. I very well know how the game is i have stated it and that it revolves around damage where do you even get off on your tangent saying back just what i have already said.

    As to getting hit with a afk is my fault and telling me if i don't contribute then i'm going to get one. Where did you pull that from i have stated its rare i even get one but it happens. Again you cite me not liking combat and not helping you have twisted in your mind again some how you know just my likes and what i do.

    I have even simply stated these are my interactions and your results may vary. That is strait forward that not all people are playing in such a manor yet here you are saying i only blame dps players and my problem should be with cryptic. Again what problem is that id love to know what you seam to have gleaned just what my problem is. This is a thread about Afk and its effects on players and do you know i stated my issues i have seen regarding this issue and it revolves around yep you guessed it dps as the bench mark not objective based interaction.

    Read my posts before you feel the need to comment on them. (Edit from my self).

    This is as nice as i can be when i have some one attacking me with no basis for it.

    Hm, do you know that DS9 episode where the crew is infected by this replicator virus and all of sudden their talk turns into gibberish? I think that something like that might really be the problem here as well.

    Is not as if I would not want to understand your position or discuss them with you it’s just that birds go further loose, maybe. Shout easy play. Round the turbulent quick and close the reverse harbor ankles try. Sound reset gleaming dinner to bug instead to lark true pepper? :)
    10_01_07_19_11_20_34.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,304 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »

    But here's the teachable method anyway:
    1. Pick a console who's position in the sequence you don't yet know.
    2. If it was the wrong one, re-input what you already know of the sequence (if any) and try a different one until you find the right one.
    3. When you get right one, add it to your known sequence (if your memory sucks, take notes).
    4. Repeat from 1 until you've got the whole sequence.

    I do it that way as well. Of course luck will determine in the end what optional is met here.

    Most of my time I work myself from front to back. I often play PvE with a bud via TeamSpeak. I work from front to back then and he from back to front and we communicate the sequence we have so far. That way we manage a 100% success rate for all optionals.

    Your method is sound, probably just not meant for 1 player of a team to do but what alternatives are there in pug runs anyways.
    10_01_07_19_11_20_34.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 136 Arc User
    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.

    Rather we love it or hate it.. this is a space/ground combat game.

    We could argue all day rather or not that is fitting for the Star Trek franchise, that's a whole other can of worms.. but the quicker you accept the reality of it, the easier things will be for you. Yes, doing the objectives is important, and players that focus on objectives are important and valuable. But like it or not, this is a combat game, and your contribution to a mission is measured as such.

    The compromise that has been made is that the bar for this contribution is set about as low as it can possibly go. In a map like Azure for example, kill one.. maybe 2 enemies and you're good. You can fly around the rest of the map doing nothing but disabling tractor beams and you'll be fine.

    If this does not appeal to you, if you do not wish to contribute anything to combat, then you're going to get an AFK. If you don't like that then your issue is with Cryptic and the people that designed the game, not with other players that are playing within those constraints. You can blame higher damage players all you want, but at the end of the day when you get hit with the AFK it's your own doing. Maybe one day they will change this, I honestly wish they would.. but for now this is what we have.

    Blaming other players for it will get you exactly nowhere.

    You know what in a nice way i am going to say back off. I am not attacking any one neither am i telling you anything that even comes close to needing your attacking of me.

    Do you even read the post i put up or do you just blindly skim over and then pop off ideals as to what you think i know or don't?

    Blaming other players if you even cared to read i said clearly i don't blame any one. You must have missed that little part?

    Again at just what point did i mention the franchise or even attempt to say anything about me liking or disliking combat? You simply decided what i like and then attempt to take some high ground and proceed to tell me just how the game is. I very well know how the game is i have stated it and that it revolves around damage where do you even get off on your tangent saying back just what i have already said.

    As to getting hit with a afk is my fault and telling me if i don't contribute then i'm going to get one. Where did you pull that from i have stated its rare i even get one but it happens. Again you cite me not liking combat and not helping you have twisted in your mind again some how you know just my likes and what i do.

    I have even simply stated these are my interactions and your results may vary. That is strait forward that not all people are playing in such a manor yet here you are saying i only blame dps players and my problem should be with cryptic. Again what problem is that id love to know what you seam to have gleaned just what my problem is. This is a thread about Afk and its effects on players and do you know i stated my issues i have seen regarding this issue and it revolves around yep you guessed it dps as the bench mark not objective based interaction.

    Read my posts before you feel the need to comment on them. (Edit from my self).

    This is as nice as i can be when i have some one attacking me with no basis for it.

    Hm, do you know that DS9 episode where the crew is infected by this replicator virus and all of sudden their talk turns into gibberish? I think that something like that might really be the problem here as well.

    Is not as if I would not want to understand your position or discuss them with you it’s just that birds go further loose, maybe. Shout easy play. Round the turbulent quick and close the reverse harbor ankles try. Sound reset gleaming dinner to bug instead to lark true pepper? :)

    So your inability to understand English places me as speaking gibberish?

    Perhaps it is you that needs to check there translator, and try again?

    Or if English is your native language I recommend making use of a dictionary. Or? Perhaps revisit a school to have your English brushed up on?

    And if you can’t understand what I am saying in English, and display this level of comprehension I wonder where I could have possibly had the mistaken view of dps players? If anything you prove an inability to comprehend and yet claim to lead the dps board.

    This level of maturity displayed leaves me dumbfounded that we are even having whatever this is. Do I call it a chat, a debate, a response, just what classification this should be under? I have no ideal.

    And to help you along with meanings as you somehow think the use of dumbfounded was me calling players dumb in a previous post of mine that you again claim to have not comprehended here is a little definition for you.

    Dumbfounded

    greatly astonish or amaze.

    "they were dumbfounded at his popularity"

    synonyms: astonish, astound, amaze, stagger, surprise, startle, stun, confound, stupefy, daze, take aback, stop someone in their tracks, strike dumb, leave open-mouthed, leave aghast;
    To be or not to be: B)
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,266 Arc User
    So your inability to understand English places me as speaking gibberish?

    Perhaps it is you that needs to check there translator, and try again?

    Or if English is your native language I recommend making use of a dictionary. Or? Perhaps revisit a school to have your English brushed up on?
    I have to admit, his DS9 gibberish post was pretty epic. No offense intended but your sentences tend to lack structure. They also tend to have too many words that attempt to address too many points in a single sentence. Sometimes less is more. I don't mean to insult you. I'm just pointing out that they do have a point in saying that there may be a communication breakdown as a result of attempting to parse what you are saying.
    And if you can’t understand what I am saying in English, and display this level of comprehension I wonder where I could have possibly had the mistaken view of dps players? If anything you prove an inability to comprehend and yet claim to lead the dps board.
    He's actually on the DPS League leader board.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,304 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.

    Rather we love it or hate it.. this is a space/ground combat game.

    We could argue all day rather or not that is fitting for the Star Trek franchise, that's a whole other can of worms.. but the quicker you accept the reality of it, the easier things will be for you. Yes, doing the objectives is important, and players that focus on objectives are important and valuable. But like it or not, this is a combat game, and your contribution to a mission is measured as such.

    The compromise that has been made is that the bar for this contribution is set about as low as it can possibly go. In a map like Azure for example, kill one.. maybe 2 enemies and you're good. You can fly around the rest of the map doing nothing but disabling tractor beams and you'll be fine.

    If this does not appeal to you, if you do not wish to contribute anything to combat, then you're going to get an AFK. If you don't like that then your issue is with Cryptic and the people that designed the game, not with other players that are playing within those constraints. You can blame higher damage players all you want, but at the end of the day when you get hit with the AFK it's your own doing. Maybe one day they will change this, I honestly wish they would.. but for now this is what we have.

    Blaming other players for it will get you exactly nowhere.

    You know what in a nice way i am going to say back off. I am not attacking any one neither am i telling you anything that even comes close to needing your attacking of me.

    Do you even read the post i put up or do you just blindly skim over and then pop off ideals as to what you think i know or don't?

    Blaming other players if you even cared to read i said clearly i don't blame any one. You must have missed that little part?

    Again at just what point did i mention the franchise or even attempt to say anything about me liking or disliking combat? You simply decided what i like and then attempt to take some high ground and proceed to tell me just how the game is. I very well know how the game is i have stated it and that it revolves around damage where do you even get off on your tangent saying back just what i have already said.

    As to getting hit with a afk is my fault and telling me if i don't contribute then i'm going to get one. Where did you pull that from i have stated its rare i even get one but it happens. Again you cite me not liking combat and not helping you have twisted in your mind again some how you know just my likes and what i do.

    I have even simply stated these are my interactions and your results may vary. That is strait forward that not all people are playing in such a manor yet here you are saying i only blame dps players and my problem should be with cryptic. Again what problem is that id love to know what you seam to have gleaned just what my problem is. This is a thread about Afk and its effects on players and do you know i stated my issues i have seen regarding this issue and it revolves around yep you guessed it dps as the bench mark not objective based interaction.

    Read my posts before you feel the need to comment on them. (Edit from my self).

    This is as nice as i can be when i have some one attacking me with no basis for it.

    Hm, do you know that DS9 episode where the crew is infected by this replicator virus and all of sudden their talk turns into gibberish? I think that something like that might really be the problem here as well.

    Is not as if I would not want to understand your position or discuss them with you it’s just that birds go further loose, maybe. Shout easy play. Round the turbulent quick and close the reverse harbor ankles try. Sound reset gleaming dinner to bug instead to lark true pepper? :)

    So your inability to understand English places me as speaking gibberish?

    Perhaps it is you that needs to check there translator, and try again?

    Or if English is your native language I recommend making use of a dictionary. Or? Perhaps revisit a school to have your English brushed up on?

    And if you can’t understand what I am saying in English, and display this level of comprehension I wonder where I could have possibly had the mistaken view of dps players? If anything you prove an inability to comprehend and yet claim to lead the dps board.

    This level of maturity displayed leaves me dumbfounded that we are even having whatever this is. Do I call it a chat, a debate, a response, just what classification this should be under? I have no ideal.

    And to help you along with meanings as you somehow think the use of dumbfounded was me calling players dumb in a previous post of mine that you again claim to have not comprehended here is a little definition for you.

    Dumbfounded

    greatly astonish or amaze.

    "they were dumbfounded at his popularity"

    synonyms: astonish, astound, amaze, stagger, surprise, startle, stun, confound, stupefy, daze, take aback, stop someone in their tracks, strike dumb, leave open-mouthed, leave aghast;

    Ah much better, thanks!

    Well one thing the seems crawl out of your posts as some sort of opinion is that you have an in game issue with the afk penalty system, the fact some players can’t fulfil tasks and at some point DPSer or escort players doing DPS (?) ruin your game experience.

    Would it be possible for you to clarify? Perhaps even propose solutions to your problems? I requested something like that a few posts back and you seem to have, not seen it...
    10_01_07_19_11_20_34.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,487 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.

    Rather we love it or hate it.. this is a space/ground combat game.

    We could argue all day rather or not that is fitting for the Star Trek franchise, that's a whole other can of worms.. but the quicker you accept the reality of it, the easier things will be for you. Yes, doing the objectives is important, and players that focus on objectives are important and valuable. But like it or not, this is a combat game, and your contribution to a mission is measured as such.

    The compromise that has been made is that the bar for this contribution is set about as low as it can possibly go. In a map like Azure for example, kill one.. maybe 2 enemies and you're good. You can fly around the rest of the map doing nothing but disabling tractor beams and you'll be fine.

    If this does not appeal to you, if you do not wish to contribute anything to combat, then you're going to get an AFK. If you don't like that then your issue is with Cryptic and the people that designed the game, not with other players that are playing within those constraints. You can blame higher damage players all you want, but at the end of the day when you get hit with the AFK it's your own doing. Maybe one day they will change this, I honestly wish they would.. but for now this is what we have.

    Blaming other players for it will get you exactly nowhere.

    You know what in a nice way i am going to say back off. I am not attacking any one neither am i telling you anything that even comes close to needing your attacking of me.

    Do you even read the post i put up or do you just blindly skim over and then pop off ideals as to what you think i know or don't?

    Blaming other players if you even cared to read i said clearly i don't blame any one. You must have missed that little part?

    Again at just what point did i mention the franchise or even attempt to say anything about me liking or disliking combat? You simply decided what i like and then attempt to take some high ground and proceed to tell me just how the game is. I very well know how the game is i have stated it and that it revolves around damage where do you even get off on your tangent saying back just what i have already said.

    As to getting hit with a afk is my fault and telling me if i don't contribute then i'm going to get one. Where did you pull that from i have stated its rare i even get one but it happens. Again you cite me not liking combat and not helping you have twisted in your mind again some how you know just my likes and what i do.

    I have even simply stated these are my interactions and your results may vary. That is strait forward that not all people are playing in such a manor yet here you are saying i only blame dps players and my problem should be with cryptic. Again what problem is that id love to know what you seam to have gleaned just what my problem is. This is a thread about Afk and its effects on players and do you know i stated my issues i have seen regarding this issue and it revolves around yep you guessed it dps as the bench mark not objective based interaction.

    Read my posts before you feel the need to comment on them. (Edit from my self).

    This is as nice as i can be when i have some one attacking me with no basis for it.

    Hm, do you know that DS9 episode where the crew is infected by this replicator virus and all of sudden their talk turns into gibberish? I think that something like that might really be the problem here as well.

    Is not as if I would not want to understand your position or discuss them with you it’s just that birds go further loose, maybe. Shout easy play. Round the turbulent quick and close the reverse harbor ankles try. Sound reset gleaming dinner to bug instead to lark true pepper? :)

    So your inability to understand English places me as speaking gibberish?

    Perhaps it is you that needs to check there translator, and try again?

    Or if English is your native language I recommend making use of a dictionary. Or? Perhaps revisit a school to have your English brushed up on?

    And if you can’t understand what I am saying in English, and display this level of comprehension I wonder where I could have possibly had the mistaken view of dps players? If anything you prove an inability to comprehend and yet claim to lead the dps board.

    This level of maturity displayed leaves me dumbfounded that we are even having whatever this is. Do I call it a chat, a debate, a response, just what classification this should be under? I have no ideal.

    And to help you along with meanings as you somehow think the use of dumbfounded was me calling players dumb in a previous post of mine that you again claim to have not comprehended here is a little definition for you.

    Dumbfounded

    greatly astonish or amaze.

    "they were dumbfounded at his popularity"

    synonyms: astonish, astound, amaze, stagger, surprise, startle, stun, confound, stupefy, daze, take aback, stop someone in their tracks, strike dumb, leave open-mouthed, leave aghast;

    Ah much better, thanks!

    Well one thing the seems crawl out of your posts as some sort of opinion is that you have an in game issue with the afk penalty system, the fact some players can’t fulfil tasks and at some point DPSer or escort players doing DPS (?) ruin your game experience.

    Would it be possible for you to clarify? Perhaps even propose solutions to your problems? I requested something like that a few posts back and you seem to have, not seen it...

    I think he's pretty much upset because the AFK penalty hits players whom are actively playing (or who have real technical problems like chronic server-not-responding and/or disconnects), but misses people who are intentionally afk'ing (a method that has even got its own STO-Slang term; "Steelmaxing", after the guy who first started promoting how to do it.)

    The AFK system is, put simply, a badly designed band-aid to a problem that isn't (and wasn't) all that prevalent before the adoption of the 'wait long enough and it auto-completes' era of queues. It fails to address real AFK behaviours while providing nothing to direct new or weak players in the direction of getting better at the game.

    When you strip away the ranting about the DPS community, and look at the core issue here, the AFK system is fundamentally broken, and that in turn is because it's designed around a single, arbitrary calculation in a game where it's possible for one player to do 100-200 times as much DPS in a single instance, as another player of the exact same 'level'.

    Said player gives up a LOT to do that much damage, and it definitely requires devotion to achieve, no question about it, it requires a high level of personal commitment to do 200K DPS solo, or even solo-as-part of a premade team.

    But that just demonstrates how inappropriate the mechanism really is when you examine the structure of the REST of the game.

    In my own eyes, the major issue here, is that the AFK penalty doesn't do what it's supposed to do, that is, it doesn't work to the stated intent. It works exactly as designed, but not to the mission statement, in fact it doesn't even get close.

    I Believe that is the issue (the real issue) our OP is on about. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

    IF you acknowledge that the system is failing to achieve its stated objective, THEN a more productive effort than arguing the values and merits of the DPS community might be instead to suggest workable alternatives, or solutions, to the problem...or at least giving an acknowledgement of what the problem is, and helping to define it in hopes that a solution can be formulated.



    I think you misunderstand Peter and Sea here. They were not talking about the merits of the DPS league...but offered workable solution to how the game is NOW. And even some suggestion that would be quite easy to do for a better solution (like have mission objectives count as damage for the AFK penalty).

    As for the doing 200x the damage, quite a bit of that isn't even something the game can fix. If somebody grabs a ship that Peter does 200k DPS in and flies it in a manner where they do 3k DPS, what exactly is the game suppose to do about it? No seriously. I was helping out somebody who blew couple hundred bucks to copy a DPS league build that should have been able to do 200k if piloted well...and 80k if flown like me and the guy was doing sub 5k ISA runs. So how does the game deal with the fact that the same build is doing between 200k to 5k depending on who is piloting? Because the only way to fix that would be to become a mobile game and have the game just play for you.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,849 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    I've done it like that every time I run that mission.
    And this will almost certainly fail the objective, yes.
    warpangel wrote: »
    And the "obvious naive solution" is to wait for it to solve itself automatically. That's just kinda boring.
    Which is also an automatic failure, and is the generally favored mode of people who just derp around shooting at random.

    Like I said, most people have no idea how to do this and the solution is very non-obvious.
    It is impossible to fail the objective (except possibly in Elite, which I haven't tried). You either win by solving the puzzle or you win waiting out the timer.

    If you have additional information about the puzzle do post it and let's see how non-obvious it is.
    warpangel wrote: »

    But here's the teachable method anyway:
    1. Pick a console who's position in the sequence you don't yet know.
    2. If it was the wrong one, re-input what you already know of the sequence (if any) and try a different one until you find the right one.
    3. When you get right one, add it to your known sequence (if your memory sucks, take notes).
    4. Repeat from 1 until you've got the whole sequence.

    I do it that way as well. Of course luck will determine in the end what optional is met here.

    Most of my time I work myself from front to back. I often play PvE with a bud via TeamSpeak. I work from front to back then and he from back to front and we communicate the sequence we have so far. That way we manage a 100% success rate for all optionals.

    Your method is sound, probably just not meant for 1 player of a team to do but what alternatives are there in pug runs anyways.
    I would expect not, since it is ostensibly meant to be a 5-man mission. However, I barely ever see anyone else even try to do it in pugs.

    Personally, all I care about is being faster than the timed wait. Optionals are peanuts.
  • joeykoricjoeykoric Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    Suppose I have been lucky. The only times I have gotten an AFK penalty has been on those occasions when enemies would fail to spawn. How long should one sit on a map waiting for the spawn? You either sit and hope, or you leave and take a AFK hit. Annoying yes. As for those who intentionally AFK, that would annoy me far more. So in that context, I think something is better than nothing. But with that said, it would be nice if they could find some time to refine the system to be more intuitive to what the players are actually doing.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,644 Arc User
    All this futzing around with these 'challange' like difficulty add-ins is just plain idiotic and I never much cared for them. They are like the 'rules' for Fizzbin. They are made up with no grounding in any 'real life' military objectives. Kill 'A' but for heavens sake do not kill evil guys 'B' or 'C' before so. Or you must kill them all simultaneously. Etc.

    Pure felgercarb.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,849 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.

    Rather we love it or hate it.. this is a space/ground combat game.

    We could argue all day rather or not that is fitting for the Star Trek franchise, that's a whole other can of worms.. but the quicker you accept the reality of it, the easier things will be for you. Yes, doing the objectives is important, and players that focus on objectives are important and valuable. But like it or not, this is a combat game, and your contribution to a mission is measured as such.

    The compromise that has been made is that the bar for this contribution is set about as low as it can possibly go. In a map like Azure for example, kill one.. maybe 2 enemies and you're good. You can fly around the rest of the map doing nothing but disabling tractor beams and you'll be fine.

    If this does not appeal to you, if you do not wish to contribute anything to combat, then you're going to get an AFK. If you don't like that then your issue is with Cryptic and the people that designed the game, not with other players that are playing within those constraints. You can blame higher damage players all you want, but at the end of the day when you get hit with the AFK it's your own doing. Maybe one day they will change this, I honestly wish they would.. but for now this is what we have.

    Blaming other players for it will get you exactly nowhere.

    You know what in a nice way i am going to say back off. I am not attacking any one neither am i telling you anything that even comes close to needing your attacking of me.

    Do you even read the post i put up or do you just blindly skim over and then pop off ideals as to what you think i know or don't?

    Blaming other players if you even cared to read i said clearly i don't blame any one. You must have missed that little part?

    Again at just what point did i mention the franchise or even attempt to say anything about me liking or disliking combat? You simply decided what i like and then attempt to take some high ground and proceed to tell me just how the game is. I very well know how the game is i have stated it and that it revolves around damage where do you even get off on your tangent saying back just what i have already said.

    As to getting hit with a afk is my fault and telling me if i don't contribute then i'm going to get one. Where did you pull that from i have stated its rare i even get one but it happens. Again you cite me not liking combat and not helping you have twisted in your mind again some how you know just my likes and what i do.

    I have even simply stated these are my interactions and your results may vary. That is strait forward that not all people are playing in such a manor yet here you are saying i only blame dps players and my problem should be with cryptic. Again what problem is that id love to know what you seam to have gleaned just what my problem is. This is a thread about Afk and its effects on players and do you know i stated my issues i have seen regarding this issue and it revolves around yep you guessed it dps as the bench mark not objective based interaction.

    Read my posts before you feel the need to comment on them. (Edit from my self).

    This is as nice as i can be when i have some one attacking me with no basis for it.

    Hm, do you know that DS9 episode where the crew is infected by this replicator virus and all of sudden their talk turns into gibberish? I think that something like that might really be the problem here as well.

    Is not as if I would not want to understand your position or discuss them with you it’s just that birds go further loose, maybe. Shout easy play. Round the turbulent quick and close the reverse harbor ankles try. Sound reset gleaming dinner to bug instead to lark true pepper? :)

    So your inability to understand English places me as speaking gibberish?

    Perhaps it is you that needs to check there translator, and try again?

    Or if English is your native language I recommend making use of a dictionary. Or? Perhaps revisit a school to have your English brushed up on?

    And if you can’t understand what I am saying in English, and display this level of comprehension I wonder where I could have possibly had the mistaken view of dps players? If anything you prove an inability to comprehend and yet claim to lead the dps board.

    This level of maturity displayed leaves me dumbfounded that we are even having whatever this is. Do I call it a chat, a debate, a response, just what classification this should be under? I have no ideal.

    And to help you along with meanings as you somehow think the use of dumbfounded was me calling players dumb in a previous post of mine that you again claim to have not comprehended here is a little definition for you.

    Dumbfounded

    greatly astonish or amaze.

    "they were dumbfounded at his popularity"

    synonyms: astonish, astound, amaze, stagger, surprise, startle, stun, confound, stupefy, daze, take aback, stop someone in their tracks, strike dumb, leave open-mouthed, leave aghast;

    Ah much better, thanks!

    Well one thing the seems crawl out of your posts as some sort of opinion is that you have an in game issue with the afk penalty system, the fact some players can’t fulfil tasks and at some point DPSer or escort players doing DPS (?) ruin your game experience.

    Would it be possible for you to clarify? Perhaps even propose solutions to your problems? I requested something like that a few posts back and you seem to have, not seen it...

    I think he's pretty much upset because the AFK penalty hits players whom are actively playing (or who have real technical problems like chronic server-not-responding and/or disconnects), but misses people who are intentionally afk'ing (a method that has even got its own STO-Slang term; "Steelmaxing", after the guy who first started promoting how to do it.)

    The AFK system is, put simply, a badly designed band-aid to a problem that isn't (and wasn't) all that prevalent before the adoption of the 'wait long enough and it auto-completes' era of queues. It fails to address real AFK behaviours while providing nothing to direct new or weak players in the direction of getting better at the game.

    When you strip away the ranting about the DPS community, and look at the core issue here, the AFK system is fundamentally broken, and that in turn is because it's designed around a single, arbitrary calculation in a game where it's possible for one player to do 100-200 times as much DPS in a single instance, as another player of the exact same 'level'.

    Said player gives up a LOT to do that much damage, and it definitely requires devotion to achieve, no question about it, it requires a high level of personal commitment to do 200K DPS solo, or even solo-as-part of a premade team.

    But that just demonstrates how inappropriate the mechanism really is when you examine the structure of the REST of the game.

    In my own eyes, the major issue here, is that the AFK penalty doesn't do what it's supposed to do, that is, it doesn't work to the stated intent. It works exactly as designed, but not to the mission statement, in fact it doesn't even get close.

    I Believe that is the issue (the real issue) our OP is on about. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

    IF you acknowledge that the system is failing to achieve its stated objective, THEN a more productive effort than arguing the values and merits of the DPS community might be instead to suggest workable alternatives, or solutions, to the problem...or at least giving an acknowledgement of what the problem is, and helping to define it in hopes that a solution can be formulated.



    I think you misunderstand Peter and Sea here. They were not talking about the merits of the DPS league...but offered workable solution to how the game is NOW. And even some suggestion that would be quite easy to do for a better solution (like have mission objectives count as damage for the AFK penalty).

    As for the doing 200x the damage, quite a bit of that isn't even something the game can fix. If somebody grabs a ship that Peter does 200k DPS in and flies it in a manner where they do 3k DPS, what exactly is the game suppose to do about it? No seriously. I was helping out somebody who blew couple hundred bucks to copy a DPS league build that should have been able to do 200k if piloted well...and 80k if flown like me and the guy was doing sub 5k ISA runs. So how does the game deal with the fact that the same build is doing between 200k to 5k depending on who is piloting? Because the only way to fix that would be to become a mobile game and have the game just play for you.

    I think you're missing my point; the AFK system isn't stopping people who intentionally AFK runs.

    the problem isn't "Git Gud" it's "The mechanism is broken because it doesn't do what it's supposed to do."

    At the root, the core problem isn't that some players are better than others, it's missions that penalize players for doing what the mission-text says they're supposed to do, while allowing players who aren't even playing to take up space.

    that's not a DPS problem, except that they chose it as a metric for treating newbies like sh*t on the administrative level.

    aka it's not the 'fault' of DPS players, it's the fault of lazy developers, or clueless developers, or at minimum devs who don't (and possibly can't) thnk through the impacts of their 'solutions' because they're not identifying the problem correctly.

    The Problem: some players are 'Steelmaxing' runs-that is, they do a token bit of damage, and then go watch netflix or surf the interwebs until it reaches the pre-scripted ending.

    Their solution doesn't address that problem, it can't. It wouldn't matter if the value chosen was 1% or 90%, because the thinking behind the design doesn't actually address the problem. the problem is mission designs that reward AFK behaviour, and reward structures that ALSO reward AFK behaviour, and an AFK penalty mechanic that does not address actual AFK behaviour.

    I would argue that it's really unlikely that even the very best programmer can write an automated script, that can accomplish the stated task of addressing intentional AFK behaviour without giving a serious look at how they've formulated and formatted the Queue missions, reward system, etc. first.

    That is, of course, a lot of work, lots of man-hours required, while it probably took less than eight man-hours to design the code for the AFK penalty system they have, the one that isn't, in fact, finding and kicking actual AFK players.

    The system doesn't work, because it doesn't address the problem. the problem exists, because Cryptic chose to create missions and queues that encourage the negative behaviour, with reward systems that also encourage the negative behaviour.

    IOW it's not about DPS or Skill, it's about a self-broken rule that, examined based on impacts and effects, does not serve to make for a better game, does not improve the play of weak players, and does not accomplish its stated objectives.
    Unfortunately, a lot of people tend to believe that any measure that's intended to stop unwanted behavior must necessarily be "better than nothing" by sheer virtue of good intentions, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

    IMO, AFKing doesn't seem like much of a problem for Cryptic. They consistently create missions with objectives that win themselves just by waiting and not too long ago even made an entire event mission (First Contact Day) where nothing the players do even theoretically affects anything at all. In other words, they seem perfectly happy to plop down rewards for players just for "clocking in."

    So I'm inclined to assume the developers wanted to slap something together as quick and cheap as possible just so they could say they'd "done something" for the people who nagged them about the hordes of AFKers invading every pug (I very rarely saw any, but others claimed they were in every pug and surely random forum posters must be the epitome of trustworthiness :p). If so, congratulations it's a success. The anti-AFKers defend the system to the death even though it's completely useless.

    If they wanted to actually hinder AFKing, even simple control input monitor would've been more effective just from the ability to set a reasonably high threshold without blowing every newbie and casual out of the queues completely.

    And yes, designing content where player action really matters rather than more self-winning timegates should be effective in and of itself, because players wouldn't really want to AFK in the first place.
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    No problem. Self redacted on the off chance the post might be taken in a manner not intended.
    Post edited by roguealltrek on
    To be or not to be: B)
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,188 Community Moderator
    If we can stop insulting each other and the devs that would be just great. Thanks.
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  • wildeye042wildeye042 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I only care about the AFK issue because someone with their thumb up their butt means it takes longer to complete missions. It would be nice to have a group kick function with the RTFO system prioritizing filling the spot. Gaming the game is fine but do it on your own time.
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