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AFK penalty issue

Had my first AFK penalty the other day. It was in Azure Nebula Rescue Advanced. I think I got it because I didn't shoot anything the entire match. My teammates shot the Tholians while I snuck in with my tiny Bird of Prey and freed the ships.

Is this right? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that's how you were supposed to play that queue. It seems silly that the penalty for a mission like that would be based on damage alone.
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,129 Arc User
    It most likely IS the way you are "supposed" to play, it may even be the exact objective. But...it is not the way to avoid that silly AFK issue.

    Besides, why would they give us cloak-users an advantage?
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,515 Arc User
    edxell wrote: »
    Had my first AFK penalty the other day. It was in Azure Nebula Rescue Advanced. I think I got it because I didn't shoot anything the entire match. My teammates shot the Tholians while I snuck in with my tiny Bird of Prey and freed the ships.

    Is this right? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that's how you were supposed to play that queue. It seems silly that the penalty for a mission like that would be based on damage alone.
    That is the very reason I stopped playing pure support or pure team builds. The devs decided helping the team is bad and if you do that you get hit by an AFK penalty. You did the mission correctly but as with most team work in this game you get punished if you do that.
  • sarvour0sarvour0 Member Posts: 375 Arc User
    … the TRIBBLE?!? wtTRIBBLE is going on? An AFK Penalty? For not doing DAMAGE? So players can be busy as TRIBBLE, working their TRIBBLE off doing Objectives, and be penalized for strategy/teamwork/playstyle??? WTF? This, this TRIBLLE has to go!
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  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,930 Arc User
    edxell wrote: »
    Had my first AFK penalty the other day. It was in Azure Nebula Rescue Advanced. I think I got it because I didn't shoot anything the entire match. My teammates shot the Tholians while I snuck in with my tiny Bird of Prey and freed the ships.

    Is this right? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that's how you were supposed to play that queue. It seems silly that the penalty for a mission like that would be based on damage alone.

    I believe you need to inflict at least 2% of total damage throughout the mission to avoid the AFK penalty.

    From a mission objective point of view, you did the correct thing. Allow your allies to distract your enemies while you sneak in and rescue the ships. But doing so causes you to fail the AFK check. It would be nice if there was a custom AKF rule that is applicable to each specific mission, but the can unleash a whole can of worms if custom AFK rules get messed of for each TFO. It would especially be annoying if the AFK rules break for each individual difficulty level rather than just the general mission itself. That mean double or triple the headaches and time required to create a fix, have the Q&A team test it, then release a patch for 'em.

    Just looking at Advanced TFO, there are 39 of them. If there is an Advanced TFO, then we know there are also Normal versions of the TFO, so the bumps up the number to 78 TFO missions. There are 29 Elite TFOs and 3 TFOs that are strictly normal (including Winter Invasion). That means in the worst possible situation where custom AFK rules exists for each individual TFO, there are a total of 110 missions that would need to be individually tested to correct potentially broken custom AFK rules. That sounds like several months of work to me at the very least and that is only if the team does not focus any time on testing new content.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,467 Arc User
    I'm investigating this with the guys; my impression was that ANR wasn't supposed to have the AFK penalty. Because you're right: the simplest way to play that mission is to have your buddies draw fire while you sneak in and free the Rom ships.
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  • sarvour0sarvour0 Member Posts: 375 Arc User
    Keep it SIMPLE.
    Were they Inflicting Damage?
    Where they Using Abilities to complete Objectives?
    Either A or B negates the penalty.
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    [SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards
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    "There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..."

    PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins.
    T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    Feature, only DPS is allowed. Trying to actually do non-DPS mission objectives in STO gets you an AFK penalty.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 6,676 Arc User
    Yes, it sucks that you were hit with this.. but honestly.. it's easy to work around. The damage requirement to avoid AFK is very minimal (1% of the total.) You could have just killed one single Tholian and been fine.

    Yeah, I get it.. it sucks that you contributed and still were punished. I get that, and you're not wrong.. but the system is what it is, and rather it's perfect or not, it would be far worse if the system didn't exist. Ideally, the game should detect your interaction with the tractor beams holding the ships and count that as damage done.. but apparently, it doesn't work that way.

    The easiest fix for this is next time just kill one single ship. It's not perfect, but this system needs to remain in place to prevent exploits. It's what we have, we just have to work with it.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,721 Arc User
    Yep, AFK pen can be dumb at times. Even got one myself for only putting out fires in undine Infiltration (was the only one doing so, map failed). Too bad.

    Well OP at least you know now and can adjust accordingly next time. :)
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  • edxelledxell Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    I'm investigating this with the guys; my impression was that ANR wasn't supposed to have the AFK penalty. Because you're right: the simplest way to play that mission is to have your buddies draw fire while you sneak in and free the Rom ships.

    I thought it was weird. I remember I've done ANR normal before by hiding behind the asteroids, freeing the ships and never shooting anything and still got rewards. That was quite a long time ago though.

    I almost never post on the forums but I've been playing STO since just before Legacy of Romulus released. I remember before the AFK penalty was introduced you'd sometimes get 1 or 2 players in a PUG go AFK and do nothing the entire match. I looked forward to that because it meant I'd have to change up my strategy and the mission would be that little bit more challenging and fun. I don't get that as much anymore.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 676 Arc User
    Teamwork never heard of it. This games a single player grind where other players just happen to occupy the same map as you.
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  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    The funny thing is that I've been hit with AFK penalties several times while being 100% active the entire time … but players who actually advocate AFKing queues constantly have figured out ways to AFK queue after queue and get rewards for it.

    The current AFK code is entirely too simplistic and one-dimensional.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,865 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Because a real AFKer not needing to kill that one single single ship before going for his coffee break is so much worse.

    I was explaining to the OP how to avoid the penalty, I was not condoning or agreeing with the system in place.

    My only opinion on it is that it's 'better then nothing,' and it is. Ideally, the system should be revamped to allow contributing to mission objectives (like disabling tractor beams in Azure) to count toward the AFK system.

    To be clear, my preferred method is to fix the system. I only advocate the current system over nothing at all.
    And I was disagreeing with you. In my opinion it's worse than nothing.
    Seriously, I've never heard of an AFKer who got the penalty.

    Of course you haven't. Because only people like the OP that are 'false positives' are going to come to the forum and complain. An actual AFK'er isn't going to say anything, they're just going to try and avoid it next time.
    Right. And they're going to succeed at avoiding it, because the detection method is a joke. I can't imagine a scenario in which a player with decent DPS could try and fail to avoid it.

    An AFK detector that only works the first time is not worth the cost of all the false positives.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 2,869 Arc User
    sarvour0 wrote: »
    Keep it SIMPLE.
    Were they Inflicting Damage?
    Where they Using Abilities to complete Objectives?
    Either A or B negates the penalty.

    Except both those rules are easily to circumvent via bots/macros. And yes, people DO do this.
    The funny thing is that I've been hit with AFK penalties several times while being 100% active the entire time … but players who actually advocate AFKing queues constantly have figured out ways to AFK queue after queue and get rewards for it.

    The current AFK code is entirely too simplistic and one-dimensional.

    Indeed. I've played other games where the AFK detection kicks people mid-game for doing it, even with bots/macros active.
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  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Yep, AFK pen can be dumb at times. Even got one myself for only putting out fires in undine Infiltration (was the only one doing so, map failed). Too bad.
    It's specially weird on that map because, until you even reach the second phase, you simply don't get the opportunity to actually kill anything unless you draw Temple Defense, which can't happen since you drew Fires.

    Therefore, if someone fails the map before you get to the second phase, AFK penalties for all!
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 828 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    Yep, AFK pen can be dumb at times. Even got one myself for only putting out fires in undine Infiltration (was the only one doing so, map failed). Too bad.
    It's specially weird on that map because, until you even reach the second phase, you simply don't get the opportunity to actually kill anything unless you draw Temple Defense, which can't happen since you drew Fires.

    Therefore, if someone fails the map before you get to the second phase, AFK penalties for all!
    Also got an AFK penalty on Undine Infiltration when putting out fires. For missions like this and ANR it would be nice (if possible) if it could be turned off by default.
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  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,139 Arc User
    Back before I stopped playing for a while, I had a character that I used as a healer for this map. I would sneak around when in a premade team, and get the tractor beams. Then, when we were all going to the next ship to free, I would start healing the other ships shields and hull as much as I could. Then mover to where I could free the next ship.

    I never got a penalty back then. Not sure if it has been changed since then, but it may help if you do healing on others in your team on the way to the next location. I may be wrong about this.

    I had very few weapons on that boat, and usually stayed back in other STFs, and did little damage, but kept my team alive a LOT longer than they would otherwise. It was a fun way to play. But hard to do also. Didn't have much to heal myself, because they were always on cool down. lol.

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  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    protoneous wrote: »
    Also got an AFK penalty on Undine Infiltration when putting out fires. For missions like this and ANR it would be nice (if possible) if it could be turned off by default.
    And this is why we can't have missions that don't involve mindless violence, because if you try to do anything else, AFK Penalty For You!

    You know what you CAN do, though? Go AFK! Cool AFKers Don't Get AFK Penalties, they blow things up and then walk away.
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,496 Arc User
    They should do away with the automatic penalties. Let the members of the TEAM choose to expel AFK players (by unanimous vote).
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 828 Arc User
    They should do away with the automatic penalties. Let the members of the TEAM choose to expel AFK players (by unanimous vote).
    ...a small portion of the kicked player's unrefined dilithium will then be distributed to the rest of the team as a gratuity.
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  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    They should do away with the automatic penalties. Let the members of the TEAM choose to expel AFK players (by unanimous vote).
    That would bring on the obvious griefing via votekick that would shortly ensue. I have an entire warplan dedicated to this contingency already from previous games. Anyone who tried this on any of us got KOS from my entire guild, because the problem rapidly became that bad, exactly as anticipated. Major guilds quickly adopted the practice and calm only returned between them due to the ensuing nuclear standoff, with everyone else simply left out in the cold unless they aligned with one of the above for protection under their nuclear umbrella.
    protoneous wrote: »
    ...a small portion of the kicked player's unrefined dilithium will then be distributed to the rest of the team as a gratuity.
    Hah, no, that won't work. If you did that, I'd intentionally create friends/fambly/self only teams, then intentionally kick myself to redistribute my unrefined backlog to additional pylons.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 6,676 Arc User
    They should do away with the automatic penalties. Let the members of the TEAM choose to expel AFK players (by unanimous vote).

    Then you get 4 people that decide to band together to do RTFO's and just kick the 5th 'random.'

    Sorry, but that's not an improvement.
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,129 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    ...a small portion of the kicked player's unrefined dilithium will then be distributed to the rest of the team as a gratuity.
    Hah, no, that won't work. If you did that, I'd intentionally create friends/fambly/self only teams, then intentionally kick myself to redistribute my unrefined backlog to additional pylons.

    I doubt it, Armada Leader. Because you already know the most efficient ways to collect the unrefined stuff without going through that horseshit.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    AFK penalty doesn't catch real AFKers. So unless they can really fix it, it should just be removed.
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,129 Arc User
    AFK penalty doesn't catch real AFKers. So unless they can really fix it, it should just be removed.

    All the real AFKers know what to do to get around the penalty.
    It is some of the players that don't know if it applies.

    Every. Fricken. Queue. No matter what level.
    It should be foremost in your mind...do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

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    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I doubt it, Armada Leader. Because you already know the most efficient ways to collect the unrefined stuff without going through that horseshit.
    Exactly. And those methods have certain prerequisites, that this would then jumpstart.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    It should be foremost in your mind...do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    In other words, completely ignore the mission objectives and just fire wildly even if this negatively impacts the mission objectives, as in the case of Azure, since if you shoot, you pull aggro, get shot, and thus can't accomplish the mission objectives,
  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    [Then you get 4 people that decide to band together to do RTFO's and just kick the 5th 'random.'
    I remember the old days of mid-early 2000s flash MMOs where they instituted just such a system, and as I described, it rapidly escalated into nuclear war. It began when I instituted a policy of massive retaliation for such acts, and people quickly expanded on the program until the queues became basically unplayable to anyone not associated with a major guild's nuclear umbrella, as some other dastardly individuals began holding the queues ransom for pubbies, demanding protection money to not kick them.

    By the end of the month, the system had been deinstituted, but the damage was done and the game faded into obscurity and died shortly later.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,129 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I doubt it, Armada Leader. Because you already know the most efficient ways to collect the unrefined stuff without going through that horseshit.
    Exactly. And those methods have certain prerequisites, that this would then jumpstart.

    Why would you take the poor man's route? Hmmmm? You are in it for the long game, Armada Leader. This would be a waste of your time.
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    It should be foremost in your mind...do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    In other words, completely ignore the mission objectives and just fire wildly even if this negatively impacts the mission objectives, as in the case of Azure, since if you shoot, you pull aggro, get shot, and thus can't accomplish the mission objectives,

    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    Even the "real" AFKers know to do this. It should be passed along to everyone else.
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