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Join my Trill for money

How about adding a feature for folks that start a Trill character to later join the Trill with a symbiote for Zen? I know that I could start a new character, but I am invested in my current character, and I only want to upgrade him now that I have funds. Know what I mean?
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  • risian6#1997 risian6 Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    "Join my Trill for money"

    ERP should be restricted to Drozana. I'm going to call the moderators! ;)
    I'm the one and only Risian.

    Now playing on PS4. (Which is fun. Harder, but still fun :) )
  • risian6#1997 risian6 Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    In all seriousness, I wish we could get a general option to change our characters' races.

    I know, unlikely to happen. Would still be nice though.
    I'm the one and only Risian.

    Now playing on PS4. (Which is fun. Harder, but still fun :) )
  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    The Trill thing I always found a little low-level creepy. I know, I know, the servitor race's culture considers it a "great honor" to die for the Founders... I mean have a symbiote.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 6,676 Arc User
    The Trill thing I always found a little low-level creepy. I know, I know, the servitor race's culture considers it a "great honor" to die for the Founders... I mean have a symbiote.

    *scratches head*

  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    The Trill thing I always found a little low-level creepy. I know, I know, the servitor race's culture considers it a "great honor" to die for the Founders... I mean have a symbiote.


    Why is that creepy? You know that we humans have symbiotic relationships with other creatures that live inside of us, right?
  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    jslyn wrote: »
    The Trill thing I always found a little low-level creepy. I know, I know, the servitor race's culture considers it a "great honor" to die for the Founders... I mean have a symbiote.


    Why is that creepy? You know that we humans have symbiotic relationships with other creatures that live inside of us, right?

    I don't worry about my intestinal bacteria subverting my personality when convenient and sharing my thoughts and experiences (although they will also probably abandon me when I die). A closer analogue would be a tapeworm, and we do our best to get rid of those.

    I think it is creepy that the symbiotes are obviously the superior in the arrangement, that a Trill is ingrained from birth to believe a) that it is a great honor to be a host, and b) that the symbiote is all-important, that one is expected to die to protect it. It is not an equal partnership, by any means. A symbiote would never be expected to sacrifice itself for its host. I know the Trill are okay with it, but it is exactly what I would expect for a generations-deep servitor race who are generally well cared for.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 8,344 Arc User
    The Trill are not the Gao'uld, they are more like the Tok'ra.
    #TASinSTO
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    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 711 Arc User
    I vaguely recall once upon a time a dev explained why things like species change, career change or even gender change is defacto impossible because they're hardwired into your character's creation process. They have to redo everything about character creation to make it possible, so yeah technically it could be made available because technically anything can be reprogrammed, but given the massive amount of work that would take it is for all practical purposes never going to happen.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User

    I don't worry about my intestinal bacteria subverting my personality when convenient and sharing my thoughts and experiences



    I am. That is why I avoid tacos.

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 6,493 Arc User
    How about adding a feature for folks that start a Trill character to later join the Trill with a symbiote for Zen? I know that I could start a new character, but I am invested in my current character, and I only want to upgrade him now that I have funds. Know what I mean?

    Cannot be done. Database issue.
    Once a character is created certain features are locked such as race (Trill and joined Trill are two different races), gender(male/female) and profession (Tac, Sci, Eng).

    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    Cannot be done. Database issue.
    Once a character is created certain features are locked such as race (Trill and joined Trill are two different races), gender(male/female) and profession (Tac, Sci, Eng).


    I don't see why not, in this case. The difference between a Trill and Join Trill is a Trait. They have already separated out Traits to make them interchangeable.

  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 8,344 Arc User
    > @jslyn said:
    > questerius wrote: »
    >
    > Cannot be done. Database issue.
    > Once a character is created certain features are locked such as race (Trill and joined Trill are two different races), gender(male/female) and profession (Tac, Sci, Eng).
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't see why not, in this case. The difference between a Trill and Join Trill is a Trait. They have already separated out Traits to make them interchangeable.

    That's the difference we see, its not the difference the game code sees.
    #TASinSTO
    #IStandWithCBS
    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    The Trill are not the Gao'uld, they are more like the Tok'ra.

    Oh, I agree. But I would say that the Tok'ra situation was more of a partnership than the Trill. A Tok'ra symbiote WOULD sacrifice itself for its host, if need be, and the arrangement involved people from various cultures and backgrounds who volunteered for the joining, not an ancient culture imbued with receptive beliefs and values that dutifully screens for the best candidates so the symbiote doesn't have to waste its time choosing for itself.

    Imagine the first Trill meeting with a symbiote. Do you think it was the Trill's idea? "So, you, like, wanna get in me, or what?"
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 8,344 Arc User
    > @smooshy#7462 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > The Trill are not the Gao'uld, they are more like the Tok'ra.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Oh, I agree. But I would say that the Tok'ra situation was more of a partnership than the Trill. A Tok'ra symbiote WOULD sacrifice itself for its host, if need be, and the arrangement involved people from various cultures and backgrounds who volunteered for the joining, not an ancient culture imbued with receptive beliefs and values that dutifully screens for the best candidates so the symbiote doesn't have to waste its time choosing for itself.
    >
    > Imagine the first Trill meeting with a symbiote. Do you think it was the Trill's idea? "So, you, like, wanna get in me, or what?"

    Ah but a Tok'ra would (and have) take a host without consent if they felt the circumstances justified it.. That is how SG-1 first met them after all, a Tok'ra took Sam as a host while she was performing CPR on it's present host. Trill won't do that. Then too, the Tok'ra are an idiological off-shoot of the Gao'uld, so the first Tok'ra host was no volunteer either (and was in fact technically Ra's host, who died in the film). Finally, there were multiple episodes of SG-1 where Sam or others argued with Tok'ra about their prioritization of the symbiote over the host, such as what happened to Martouf (spelling may be wrong, the husband of the symbiote that took Sam).
    #TASinSTO
    #IStandWithCBS
    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @smooshy#7462 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > The Trill are not the Gao'uld, they are more like the Tok'ra.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Oh, I agree. But I would say that the Tok'ra situation was more of a partnership than the Trill. A Tok'ra symbiote WOULD sacrifice itself for its host, if need be, and the arrangement involved people from various cultures and backgrounds who volunteered for the joining, not an ancient culture imbued with receptive beliefs and values that dutifully screens for the best candidates so the symbiote doesn't have to waste its time choosing for itself.
    >
    > Imagine the first Trill meeting with a symbiote. Do you think it was the Trill's idea? "So, you, like, wanna get in me, or what?"

    Ah but a Tok'ra would (and have) take a host without consent if they felt the circumstances justified it.. That is how SG-1 first met them after all, a Tok'ra took Sam as a host while she was performing CPR on it's present host. Trill won't do that. Then too, the Tok'ra are an idiological off-shoot of the Gao'uld, so the first Tok'ra host was no volunteer either (and was in fact technically Ra's host, who died in the film). Finally, there were multiple episodes of SG-1 where Sam or others argued with Tok'ra about their prioritization of the symbiote over the host, such as what happened to Martouf (spelling may be wrong, the husband of the symbiote that took Sam).

    All good points. Thank you for reminding me. So while the Trill situation is certainly more benign than the Gao'uld or Tok'ra situations, I still think it's a bit creepy, and certainly to the sole advantage of the symbiotes. The Trill, after all, are just fine without symbiotes, but do the symbiotes give any benefit to their hosts? I honestly don't recall. The Tok'ra at least gave health and long life to their hosts.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,508 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @smooshy#7462 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > The Trill are not the Gao'uld, they are more like the Tok'ra.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Oh, I agree. But I would say that the Tok'ra situation was more of a partnership than the Trill. A Tok'ra symbiote WOULD sacrifice itself for its host, if need be, and the arrangement involved people from various cultures and backgrounds who volunteered for the joining, not an ancient culture imbued with receptive beliefs and values that dutifully screens for the best candidates so the symbiote doesn't have to waste its time choosing for itself.
    >
    > Imagine the first Trill meeting with a symbiote. Do you think it was the Trill's idea? "So, you, like, wanna get in me, or what?"

    Ah but a Tok'ra would (and have) take a host without consent if they felt the circumstances justified it.. That is how SG-1 first met them after all, a Tok'ra took Sam as a host while she was performing CPR on it's present host. Trill won't do that. Then too, the Tok'ra are an idiological off-shoot of the Gao'uld, so the first Tok'ra host was no volunteer either (and was in fact technically Ra's host, who died in the film). Finally, there were multiple episodes of SG-1 where Sam or others argued with Tok'ra about their prioritization of the symbiote over the host, such as what happened to Martouf (spelling may be wrong, the husband of the symbiote that took Sam).

    All good points. Thank you for reminding me. So while the Trill situation is certainly more benign than the Gao'uld or Tok'ra situations, I still think it's a bit creepy, and certainly to the sole advantage of the symbiotes. The Trill, after all, are just fine without symbiotes, but do the symbiotes give any benefit to their hosts? I honestly don't recall. The Tok'ra at least gave health and long life to their hosts.

    several life times of experience?

    and with the trill's focus the host being fairly talented in same manner those would be some fairly nice life times. hell just look at everything jadzia did before she was joined with dax, and every dax after her has that knowledge, even if only one or two host per symbiont is that talented it still an amazing perk for basically no downside.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,029 Arc User
    I don't know that joined Trill are any healthier than unjoined, but in the joining the two form a symbiosis of personality as well as body - the host gets the advantage of the experience of every previous host (with rare exceptions, when a previous host proved mentally unstable), not as education but as immediate memory. Jadzia Dax knew Klingon customs inside and out because Curzon Dax had spent his life learning them. When one day Ezri dies, the next Dax host will have the experiences of a diplomat to Qo'noS, a Starfleet scientist, and a psychologist, along with all the others in the past. And so far as we have been told, the symbiont doesn't have its own personality - the overlays are always from negotiating the experiences and personalities of previous hosts. That's why the symbionts don't do their own choosing; instead, except in emergency situations, the hosts are chosen by the Symbiosis Committee. And that's one of the reasons why the new host doesn't return to what the old host was doing before he died (when Jadzia was tapped to host Dax, she didn't abandon her Starfleet duties to go become a diplomat; when Ezri replaced her, she remained as a counselor, rather than taking up astrophysics).
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    azrael605 wrote: »

    That's the difference we see, its not the difference the game code sees.


    We are not talking about changing a Vulcan in to a Gorn. The goal here is not to change the gender, not to change the selected class, nor is it even to alter the character's appearance. It is to add the Joined Symbiote Trait to the list of available options for a Trill. It would be as simple as making a Zen purchase and receiving a Genetic Resequencer box in return.



    nightken wrote: »

    several life times of experience?

    and with the trill's focus the host being fairly talented in same manner those would be some fairly nice life times. hell just look at everything jadzia did before she was joined with dax, and every dax after her has that knowledge, even if only one or two host per symbiont is that talented it still an amazing perk for basically no downside.


    The symbiote gives knowledge, sure. It does not grant the talent associated with it. Having a past life as a surgeon does not mean that later hosts can do the same thing; they may not have the steady hands, for example. A former mathematician may wind up in someone with dyscalculia. I imagine that having a symbiote would be as frustrating as it is rewarding.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,874 Arc User
    A race change option would be good, but so far the devs have concluded it to be more trouble than it's worth
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,508 Arc User
    jslyn wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »

    That's the difference we see, its not the difference the game code sees.


    We are not talking about changing a Vulcan in to a Gorn. The goal here is not to change the gender, not to change the selected class, nor is it even to alter the character's appearance. It is to add the Joined Symbiote Trait to the list of available options for a Trill. It would be as simple as making a Zen purchase and receiving a Genetic Resequencer box in return.



    nightken wrote: »

    several life times of experience?

    and with the trill's focus the host being fairly talented in same manner those would be some fairly nice life times. hell just look at everything jadzia did before she was joined with dax, and every dax after her has that knowledge, even if only one or two host per symbiont is that talented it still an amazing perk for basically no downside.


    The symbiote gives knowledge, sure. It does not grant the talent associated with it. Having a past life as a surgeon does not mean that later hosts can do the same thing; they may not have the steady hands, for example. A former mathematician may wind up in someone with dyscalculia. I imagine that having a symbiote would be as frustrating as it is rewarding.

    true, a new host may not have the hands of a surgeon but they'd be able to say, make reasonably good guess about were to shoot a unknown hostile creature to stun or kill it as needed, guide a nurse or young doctor in preforming a procedure they don't know, or just plain using the knowledge of their own body to live a longer healthier life.

    and with the dyscalculia true, they couldn't be a mathematician but then again why would they, they've been that before. and for all we know having a mathematician floating around in your head could treat dyscalculia. and the memory of that frustration could help keep the future host humble. and while I can;t think of any of the top of my head I'm sure it have secondary benefits like past life as a doctor would.



    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    In all seriousness, I wish we could get a general option to change our characters' races.

    I know, unlikely to happen. Would still be nice though.

    Unless its just impossible for Cryptic to do in the game. It should be an option. I continue to be amazed that a F2P game doesn't give customers every possible way to give them their money.
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,508 Arc User
    In all seriousness, I wish we could get a general option to change our characters' races.

    I know, unlikely to happen. Would still be nice though.

    Unless its just impossible for Cryptic to do in the game. It should be an option. I continue to be amazed that a F2P game doesn't give customers every possible way to give them their money.

    from what the said the few times they addressed it is possible but very time consuming, with a high chance of something going horrible wrong for little to no profit.

    if the ever decided to make race change a thing it problem be very costly to make up for the perceived loss of income and be followed by more pay to win-ish race in the c-store probably also costly for the same reason.


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 45,319 Arc User
    I think what's trying to be explained is that from a programming standpoint, Trill and Joined Trill are two seperate entities. The only thing they share is base physical model. Everything else code wise is incompatable with each other.

    And as mentioned above... a coding nightmare to try and undo the hardcoded stuff from character creation.
    Would I like to make my main a Joined Trill rather than a regular Trill? Maybe. But I'll live if I can't. Can always just RP it or something if I absolutely need to.

    Its a technical issue that is far more complex than it appears to us players. Remember... one character off in the code can spell doom anywhere in the game. Hence why every time we get bugs fixed, new ones are introduced. We can never have a bug free game because of that. So I really don't think it would be a good idea to mess with anything character creation based.

    Its basically the same reason why they can't remove the gender choice for Jem'Hadar when in canon they have no actual gender.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,029 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Its a technical issue that is far more complex than it appears to us players. Remember... one character off in the code can spell doom anywhere in the game. Hence why every time we get bugs fixed, new ones are introduced. We can never have a bug free game because of that.
    My go-to example there is from a couple years back, when Cryptic's global chat server went offline for over two weeks. That happened because something went wrong when Champions Online introduced vehicles. Now, there's no sensible reason why putting a new thing into one game should stop people from chatting in all the games, but when code breaks it isn't always "sensible". (There's no very good reason why, for instance, a single programming error at HQ SAC in the early 1980s should have targeted every single nuclear weapon in the NATO arsenal to 0 deg latitude, 0 deg longitude - but it happened, and it took almost a month to fix.)

    Remember -
    bugs-zpscd744ce2.jpg

    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 8,344 Arc User
    > @nightken said:
    > jslyn wrote: »
    >
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    >
    > That's the difference we see, its not the difference the game code sees.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > We are not talking about changing a Vulcan in to a Gorn. The goal here is not to change the gender, not to change the selected class, nor is it even to alter the character's appearance. It is to add the Joined Symbiote Trait to the list of available options for a Trill. It would be as simple as making a Zen purchase and receiving a Genetic Resequencer box in return.
    >
    >
    >
    > nightken wrote: »
    >
    >
    > several life times of experience?
    >
    > and with the trill's focus the host being fairly talented in same manner those would be some fairly nice life times. hell just look at everything jadzia did before she was joined with dax, and every dax after her has that knowledge, even if only one or two host per symbiont is that talented it still an amazing perk for basically no downside.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The symbiote gives knowledge, sure. It does not grant the talent associated with it. Having a past life as a surgeon does not mean that later hosts can do the same thing; they may not have the steady hands, for example. A former mathematician may wind up in someone with dyscalculia. I imagine that having a symbiote would be as frustrating as it is rewarding.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > true, a new host may not have the hands of a surgeon but they'd be able to say, make reasonably good guess about were to shoot a unknown hostile creature to stun or kill it as needed, guide a nurse or young doctor in preforming a procedure they don't know, or just plain using the knowledge of their own body to live a longer healthier life.
    >
    > and with the dyscalculia true, they couldn't be a mathematician but then again why would they, they've been that before. and for all we know having a mathematician floating around in your head could treat dyscalculia. and the memory of that frustration could help keep the future host humble. and while I can;t think of any of the top of my head I'm sure it have secondary benefits like past life as a doctor would.

    Actually both Jadzia and Ezri used skills from past hosts. Starting off with knowledge of Klingon Language and culture from Curzon, acrobatics from another host, killer instinct from the psychotic host, etc. All shown on screen.
    #TASinSTO
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  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited December 2018

    true, a new host may not have the hands of a surgeon but they'd be able to say, make reasonably good guess about were to shoot a unknown hostile creature to stun or kill it as needed, guide a nurse or young doctor in preforming a procedure they don't know, or just plain using the knowledge of their own body to live a longer healthier life.

    and with the dyscalculia true, they couldn't be a mathematician but then again why would they, they've been that before. and for all we know having a mathematician floating around in your head could treat dyscalculia. and the memory of that frustration could help keep the future host humble. and while I can;t think of any of the top of my head I'm sure it have secondary benefits like past life as a doctor would.


    Any defect (e.g., dyscalculia) would be eliminated by the screening process, ensuring only the best, brightest, and most capable become hosts. The whole of Trill society is geared toward giving the symbiotes only the very best... something else to consider in this tangential discussion.

    EDIT: My own response got me thinking that the symbiotic relationship goes beyond what the host gets and what the sybmiote gets. True, the Trill have modeled their society toward pleasing and serving the symbiotes, and the "honor" of being a host was the primary societal driver. That is, Trill competed, pushed, and strove to be worthy of selection. Ultimately, it was the desire to host a symbiote that drove the Trill as a race to the stars. Hm. I am rethinking my position on this.
  • sarvour0sarvour0 Member Posts: 375 Arc User
    Biography & Headcanon are free.
    My first 'klingon' character I used the Alien build to make a half-Klingon/half-Orion. Later on I would use that route to make humans, Cardassians, and yes more then a few hybrids of mixed races. One of my TOS characters is actually Human/Romulan (from the Axanar timeline) rather than Vulcan.
    4073703.jpg
    [SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards
    =A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
    U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser

    "There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..."

    PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins.
    T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 8,344 Arc User
    There is no Axanar timeline.
    #TASinSTO
    #IStandWithCBS
    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 1,932 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    There is no Axanar timeline.

    Fanfic counts!
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