Hey, romance is popular....and women are in this game. And I wouldn't mind seeing a nod to this for a change of pace in a story. I mean...it could even be a tragic ending like : Romeo and Juliet.
Lady J’Ula and Starfleet Romeo. I can't imagine Starfleet Romeo being a Human, either....it would have to be a race with warrior tendencies and strong.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
THAT is kinda my point, Mark. Going from the Lore, (Path to 2409), the klingons are a hell of a lot smarter than we see in the game.
Not really. Prior to 2409 they killed all known Undine agents in Klingon and Gorn space. Then they declared it mission complete, congratulated themselves on being smart while drinking bloodwine. Oh and relocated the targs. Yeah, IIRC there's a bit about how targs can smell Undine, so they're stationed everywhere as a detection system.
it's funny that they didn't stick to their own lore when planning out the Klingon arc, but instead just mangled things to make Starfleet the heroes all the way through-kind of underlining that the player faction KDF was, is, and will remain irrelevant to the setting.
What we shoud've had: Missions (Mysteries) to dig out Undine infiltrators in our own ranks, we OUGHT to have been able to get involved in the Torg situation without needing Franky Drake to lead us there by the nose.
Like I said before the High Council considered the Undine infiltration of the KDF over and done with. Thus missions related to the Undine would have needed a fourth party (not KDF, Feds, or Undine) to be the infiltration target, and logically the KDF would prefer to simply invade and figure it out after subjugating everyone. Unless you write it as if the war is too taxing on the KDF's resources to commit to a full-scale invasion, thus they send either Orion Mistress Hero, or Klingon Captain Brickface to find a way to deal with the matter while the KDF fleet is elsewhere.
could have been done, but would have required too much work to have been done at launch.
Hey, romance is popular....and women are in this game. And I wouldn't mind seeing a nod to this for a change of pace in a story. I mean...it could even be a tragic ending like : Romeo and Juliet.
Lady J’Ula and Starfleet Romeo. I can't imagine Starfleet Romeo being a Human, either....it would have to be a race with warrior tendencies and strong.
Sorry, I didn't mean for that to come off like I was making fun of you, if that's what it read like (I actually seriously thought you were joking). I admit to being a sucker for a good romance arc myself. It's just, such a thing would really have to be optional (which, Cryptic hasn't demonstrated the ability to fork story arcs like that), since players may not want to RP some/all of their toons as being attracted to J'Ula. I bring up Tovan Khev because him being mandatory for Romulan toons was a major cause of flame wars when Legacy of Romulus came out five or so years ago (shortly before I started playing).
Romance with NPCs has been done well in Foundry missions, though ("Relics" and "The Interwarp Experiment" off the top of my head).
Post edited by starswordc on
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
But people aren't Stereotypes, which kind of doesn't work with the "planet of Hats" hyper-stereotyping done so often in fandom.
Hyperstereotyping makes for boring villains and boring stories.
Quite true, though assigning stereotypes is a common flaw of people in real life. I would suggest there is a practical reason for the prevalence of "hats" in fiction, namely that anything grounded in real life can use real life context in place of in-story content and still be well-rounded to an audience, while purely fictional objects must rely on in-story context to flesh it out.
For example, Captain Sisko is an African-American man from New Orleans, who loves baseball and grew up in his father's restaurant (which never served replicated food IIRC). This tells us something about his interests, his background, his strong ties with the past (as persistently comes up throughout the series), his focus on family relationships, his views of food, what kinds of food... all kinds of hooks for stories and fluff to build up his character, and the writers don't have to do much work at all. This can fall apart if an audience doesn't have the context... those foreign to a creator may end up with the problem facing Martok, below, save without the excuse that there is no real life context.
In contrast, Martok is an Klingon, who likes bloodwine and gagh, worked his way up the chain of command, had a pet targ, loves his wife. Everything has to be put in to make this work. What even are bloodwine and gagh? What is a targ, and what does it mean to have one as a pet (contrast a dog versus a tiger... we know the difference, but an alien probably woudn't)? What even is the Klingon chain of command and how hard is that to achieve? What does "love" mean to a non-human species? To make something that isn't simply a rubber-forehead human, while still being relatable and fleshed-out, you have to define all of this context, which can and often does interfere with other key elements you need to tell the story. Even if you make an RL analogy - the Klingon military is like 18th and 19th century European armies with aristocratic officers and enlisted soldiers - you run the risk of angering someone if your portrayal seems... less than complimentary. It's a joke that Klingons have brutal relationships... but that isn't funny at all in real life. So writers have an additional incentive to not be too specific... and that detracts from three-dimensionality.
This seems to be a significant part of why aliens in fiction, especially in franchises with far too many species used as stand-ins for real life personality traits/interests/narrowly defined ideologies, (All Ferengi are greedy capitalists, all Cardassians are fascist oppressors, all Klingons are honorbound thugs, all Romulans are treacherous manipulators, all Vulcans are deeply suppressed and arrogant, all Tellarites are Gimli in SPACE!, etc.). Even humans get stuck with the Master Diplomacy/Raging Bigots hats in far too many shows, usually both simultaneously.
I suspect the other elephant in the room, is that Cryptic doesn't own the Star Trek setting, and thus has very little control over what they get to use and how they can use it. IIRC Paramount almost didn't allow Cryptic to make a Klingon faction in the first place, given they are usually antagonists in canon. It would not surprise me if a representative from Paramount had to review any significant narrative or character arc before Cryptic even started implementing it. Which is what it is
Mark, they didn't give the KDF faction much a WAR either. One raid on Utopia Planitia? a POW raid on one Fed Starbase, one set of patrols (okay, two, but who runs Pi Canis A and B separately?) There's a lot suggested in 2409 that should have made the Klingon story more relevant to the over all metaplot, but instead, it's like underlining: Klingons as player characters are supernumerary and irrelevant.
you're utterly missing the point. The player isn't on the front line fighting the war. Heck, the Fed player doesn't do that either. And again, the path to 2409 stuff is the history of why things are the way they are. It's not something the player has any reason to actually DO.
Mark, they didn't give the KDF faction much a WAR either. One raid on Utopia Planitia? a POW raid on one Fed Starbase, one set of patrols (okay, two, but who runs Pi Canis A and B separately?) There's a lot suggested in 2409 that should have made the Klingon story more relevant to the over all metaplot, but instead, it's like underlining: Klingons as player characters are supernumerary and irrelevant.
you're utterly missing the point. The player isn't on the front line fighting the war. Heck, the Fed player doesn't do that either. And again, the path to 2409 stuff is the history of why things are the way they are. It's not something the player has any reason to actually DO.
Excuse me? They gave the Fed player like two dozen missions fighting the Klingons and their allies/janissaries.
And as far as the Undine, if Cryptic had included some missions where the KDF PC actually fights them it would lend a lot more credence to J'mpok's casus belli (as reported in the game, which is very different from how The Path to 2409 records it). As it is, he canonically just picked a fight with the Federation because he wanted a war, with the Undine excuse introduced later as little more than an attempt to change the subject when it didn't go so well.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Mark, they didn't give the KDF faction much a WAR either. One raid on Utopia Planitia? a POW raid on one Fed Starbase, one set of patrols (okay, two, but who runs Pi Canis A and B separately?) There's a lot suggested in 2409 that should have made the Klingon story more relevant to the over all metaplot, but instead, it's like underlining: Klingons as player characters are supernumerary and irrelevant.
you're utterly missing the point. The player isn't on the front line fighting the war. Heck, the Fed player doesn't do that either. And again, the path to 2409 stuff is the history of why things are the way they are. It's not something the player has any reason to actually DO.
Excuse me? They gave the Fed player like two dozen missions fighting the Klingons and their allies/janissaries.
And as far as the Undine, if Cryptic had included some missions where the KDF PC actually fights them it would lend a lot more credence to J'mpok's casus belli (as reported in the game, which is very different from how The Path to 2409 records it). As it is, he canonically just picked a fight with the Federation because he wanted a war, with the Undine excuse introduced later as little more than an attempt to change the subject when it didn't go so well.
You say "two dozen" but how many of those are actually part of the war? Most of the B'Vat stuff isn't actually part of the war effort. So that leaves... the mission where you get rid of a hidden base.
B'Vat is a senior Klingon officer prosecuting the war effort, as well a politician trying to ensure it continues. The missions dealing with him are ABSOLUTELY part of the war.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
B'Vat is a senior Klingon officer prosecuting the war effort, as well a politician trying to ensure it continues. The missions dealing with him are ABSOLUTELY part of the war.
Or was... his actions in the Fed story missions have little if any support from other Klingons, and many of the officers who are stuck working for him think he's insane. So he comes across as more of a loose cannon and future war criminal than an actual enemy combatant.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
Lady J’Ula and Starfleet Romeo. I can't imagine Starfleet Romeo being a Human, either....it would have to be a race with warrior tendencies and strong.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
could have been done, but would have required too much work to have been done at launch.
My character Tsin'xing
Sorry, I didn't mean for that to come off like I was making fun of you, if that's what it read like (I actually seriously thought you were joking). I admit to being a sucker for a good romance arc myself. It's just, such a thing would really have to be optional (which, Cryptic hasn't demonstrated the ability to fork story arcs like that), since players may not want to RP some/all of their toons as being attracted to J'Ula. I bring up Tovan Khev because him being mandatory for Romulan toons was a major cause of flame wars when Legacy of Romulus came out five or so years ago (shortly before I started playing).
Romance with NPCs has been done well in Foundry missions, though ("Relics" and "The Interwarp Experiment" off the top of my head).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Quite true, though assigning stereotypes is a common flaw of people in real life. I would suggest there is a practical reason for the prevalence of "hats" in fiction, namely that anything grounded in real life can use real life context in place of in-story content and still be well-rounded to an audience, while purely fictional objects must rely on in-story context to flesh it out.
For example, Captain Sisko is an African-American man from New Orleans, who loves baseball and grew up in his father's restaurant (which never served replicated food IIRC). This tells us something about his interests, his background, his strong ties with the past (as persistently comes up throughout the series), his focus on family relationships, his views of food, what kinds of food... all kinds of hooks for stories and fluff to build up his character, and the writers don't have to do much work at all. This can fall apart if an audience doesn't have the context... those foreign to a creator may end up with the problem facing Martok, below, save without the excuse that there is no real life context.
In contrast, Martok is an Klingon, who likes bloodwine and gagh, worked his way up the chain of command, had a pet targ, loves his wife. Everything has to be put in to make this work. What even are bloodwine and gagh? What is a targ, and what does it mean to have one as a pet (contrast a dog versus a tiger... we know the difference, but an alien probably woudn't)? What even is the Klingon chain of command and how hard is that to achieve? What does "love" mean to a non-human species? To make something that isn't simply a rubber-forehead human, while still being relatable and fleshed-out, you have to define all of this context, which can and often does interfere with other key elements you need to tell the story. Even if you make an RL analogy - the Klingon military is like 18th and 19th century European armies with aristocratic officers and enlisted soldiers - you run the risk of angering someone if your portrayal seems... less than complimentary. It's a joke that Klingons have brutal relationships... but that isn't funny at all in real life. So writers have an additional incentive to not be too specific... and that detracts from three-dimensionality.
This seems to be a significant part of why aliens in fiction, especially in franchises with far too many species used as stand-ins for real life personality traits/interests/narrowly defined ideologies, (All Ferengi are greedy capitalists, all Cardassians are fascist oppressors, all Klingons are honorbound thugs, all Romulans are treacherous manipulators, all Vulcans are deeply suppressed and arrogant, all Tellarites are Gimli in SPACE!, etc.). Even humans get stuck with the Master Diplomacy/Raging Bigots hats in far too many shows, usually both simultaneously.
I suspect the other elephant in the room, is that Cryptic doesn't own the Star Trek setting, and thus has very little control over what they get to use and how they can use it. IIRC Paramount almost didn't allow Cryptic to make a Klingon faction in the first place, given they are usually antagonists in canon. It would not surprise me if a representative from Paramount had to review any significant narrative or character arc before Cryptic even started implementing it. Which is what it is
My character Tsin'xing
Excuse me? They gave the Fed player like two dozen missions fighting the Klingons and their allies/janissaries.
And as far as the Undine, if Cryptic had included some missions where the KDF PC actually fights them it would lend a lot more credence to J'mpok's casus belli (as reported in the game, which is very different from how The Path to 2409 records it). As it is, he canonically just picked a fight with the Federation because he wanted a war, with the Undine excuse introduced later as little more than an attempt to change the subject when it didn't go so well.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"