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Turning the Tier 6 Andromeda/Galaxy in a powerful ship - is it possible?
mustrumridcully0
Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
in The Shipyard
I played my Fed Engineer again recently, and levelled up the Ambassador/Narendra. I enjoyed it, but it made me lust for running the Galaxy Class again. So I got myself the Tier 6 Fleet Andromeda I already had the regular C-Store one maxed out, and decided to go on since I still have some spare Fleet Modules that I never get to use.
So, now I am trying to make it work in some way. And compared to my Science/Exotic/Projectile focused ships it just seems to suck compared to them. Of course, I am also stuck with my Captain being an Engineer, without something like Attack Pattern Alpha or Sensor Scan to really boost her damage output.
I admit, I might be harmstringing myself in some ways - I would prefer a phaser beam build with a Torpedo Launcher, to get reasonably close to canon looks. It seems I fared much beter with the Narenda, which actually had a LtCmdr Science Slot and a Commander Temporal seat, which gave me some more decent damage and crowd control option.
I got pretty much all C-Store and Event Ship Mastery, Specialization and Reputation Traits at my disposal, plus Peak Efficiency, Repair Mode and Waylay from lockbox/prom ships.
Currently I am running with
Anyone ideas what one could do here to make this work better? Or is there really not much to get out of here, and I have to accept that beating the Tactical Cube in the Red Alert solo in time before the others finish the others can summon the B'Ger will depend on luck?
So, now I am trying to make it work in some way. And compared to my Science/Exotic/Projectile focused ships it just seems to suck compared to them. Of course, I am also stuck with my Captain being an Engineer, without something like Attack Pattern Alpha or Sensor Scan to really boost her damage output.
I admit, I might be harmstringing myself in some ways - I would prefer a phaser beam build with a Torpedo Launcher, to get reasonably close to canon looks. It seems I fared much beter with the Narenda, which actually had a LtCmdr Science Slot and a Commander Temporal seat, which gave me some more decent damage and crowd control option.
I got pretty much all C-Store and Event Ship Mastery, Specialization and Reputation Traits at my disposal, plus Peak Efficiency, Repair Mode and Waylay from lockbox/prom ships.
Currently I am running with
- Weapon: 5 Phaser Beam Arrays, 1 Omni-Beam Phaser, 1 Quantum Phase Torpedo Launcher (front) and 1 Terran Task Force Torpedo Launcher (aft)
- Primary Set: Kobali Set (Shields, Impulse Engines, Deflector, Warp Core and Console)
- Consoles: Consoles I equpped are Antimatter Spread and Molecular Cohesion Modifier, Conductive RCS Accelerator and Enhanced RCS Acceleration [ResKin+Phys], Quantum Phase Converter, Protomatter Field Projecter, 2 Tactical Vulnerability Exploiter [Phaser] and Counter-Command Conduit Energy Relay and the ASsimilated Module.
- Bridge Officer Seats
- Torpedo Spread I
- Tactical Team I, Attack Pattern Beta I, Beam Fire at Will III
- Endothermic Inhibitor Beam I, Emergency Power to Shields II, Emergency Power to Weapons III, Aceton Beam III
- Overwhelm Shields I, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity I, Concentrate Firepower III
- Science Team, Hazard Emitters
- Starship Mastery Traits, Stay at your Posts, Peak Efficiency, Improved Critical Systems, Emergency Weapon Cycle, History Will Remember
Anyone ideas what one could do here to make this work better? Or is there really not much to get out of here, and I have to accept that beating the Tactical Cube in the Red Alert solo in time before the others finish the others can summon the B'Ger will depend on luck?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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When I have a lot of them going on, those that give you extra damage and stuff.
I can beat the Tactical Cube a lot easier, so look into duty officers that give you passive things and what-not. And also what duty officer assignments that can result in power up thingies.
Here is my build if it can give you any idea's!
Neither one. Despite the char being an engineer i fear that power management and energy drain is a bit of an issue for the original setup. I'd go with the classic KCB to go with the assimilated module you already have.
Do you have the agony torpedo? That's raw phaser damage in a torpedo package.
On my phaser cannon builds i usually throw on this set:
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Counter-Command_Ordnance
But since you're going for beams (really tempted to point you towards counter command single cannon /turret build with the set from above) and already have one piece the CC biomolecular torpedo could be a real contender.
I'm not a huge fan of the Kobali space set and if you have it i'd go for the quantum phase set which was also used by snowwolf.
Concentrate fire power may also be holding you back since your torpedoes are slow firing (quantum and trico). When using that power i'd go with faster torps (photon, Biomolecular or kelvin timeline)
I would also be negligent if i did not mention the protonic arsenal set:
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Protonic_Arsenal
Let me know what you think.
Use the warp bubble on the engineering commander slot https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Emit_Unstable_Warp_Bubble and check if you have the trait point blank shot slotted.
This will also give good synergy with the molecular cohesion console.
The antimatter spread, i can see why you put it in with the placate and 2-piece set, but a Neutronic alloy or Trellium D may be a safer option since the changes above will draw in a lot of aggression and damage so a bit of bulk will help.
These consoles are also an option:
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Advanced_Engineering_Armor_Consoles
I really only kept two pieces from the Galaxy set for the turn rate bonus, because the Galaxy needs so much help, and that character doesn't have many cool console options yet anyway.
For the same reason she's still using the Kobali Set - it's the only "big" item set she has completed,and I am not sure i have enough Marks or Elite Marks in any reputation to get another set quickly.
Emit Unstable Warp Bubble? I might even have that, but I remember it as a whole unimpressive. Any specific tricks you're thinking of here?
The one thing I have been switching around is between Improved Critical Systems or Improved Weaponized Emitters. The Aceton Beam buffed by some extra radiation AOE seems in practice almost better, but maybe that's just a fluke. (I am still not sure if the trait is really triggered by Overwhelm Shields - Aceton Beam with IWE shows a clear SFX, Overwhelm seems not to.
The quantum phase set is a mission reward from stormbound
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Quantum_Phase_Applications
I use the weaponized emitters on certain builds, really awesome against swarms, but it is mediocre at best against the Borg or bulky NPC in general.
Emit Unstable Warp Bubble is a powerful debuff for enemies close to your ship.
The Galaxy and Andromeda are flying bricks and getting the turn rate into decent territory take a lot of work/uses a lot of console slots so why not own that horrible turn rate and use the strength of the ship instead. Don't chase the NPC, draw them closer with the Reverse TBR, when they're on top of you debuff them with the warp bubble. Molecular Cohesion Console damages foes and increases your damage resistance. And with that everything works in tandem. Good synergy.
As for Overwhelm Shields: it is gimmicky, but engineering team is a safer option. Once you get all the pieces together you can always experiment, but for basics ET is better.
The Andromeda/Yamato is never going to be the king of effectiveness, but it's still a pretty good ship. Thing is, it's heavy engineering and limited tactical layout kind of begs for an Aux2Bat build. In fact, much like the T6 Sovereign it's kind of limited to that type of build. While the Sovy is the better A2B ship the Galaxy is still pretty good.
This is my current Yamato build, the skill planner is for a Tactical officer but I am actually running it on an Engineer. Just swap out the trait 'Good day to Die' for 'Grace Under Fire' and it should be pretty much the same. Obviously, this isn't exactly what you want, but it's just there to take some ideas from if you like. You could swap out Kemocite for the Torp Spread, add in the Borg Omni to complete the set bonus.. obviously you can make changes to it.
I quickly fell out of favor with drake builds using DCE's. It's a good set up, but honestly.. I found DCE's cool down bonus to be inconsistent. The nice thing about the Aux2Bat path is that the cool down isn't a 'chance' it's a guaranteed result every time you activate the power. No RNG, no maybe.. it just works. This is a pretty budget build overall, the only thing that's really expensive is my RCS with [EPS] you can swap that out.. it costs a fortune. I would recommend a Resistance oriented one as a replacement (I like RES ALL.) Other then that, it's pretty budget friendly.. I am running it on an alt Engineer and didn't spend a ton on it.
Again, as with any build I post, the posted build is simply a suggestion to take ideas from if needed. It's in no way in implication that it's the 'best' build or the 'right' way to do that.
It would also allow picking a few different Starship Mastery Traits, since I won't need them for cooldown reduction.
Wow Sea, that’s a really cool build.
What’s nice is that we look at some more phaser goodies when tier 6 reputs hit. The terran beam will be available as phaser and so will the gamma (console & weapon) I think.
Come to look at your build. Have you tried out to run with + threat at times? Just asking because I could imagine with close to no changes we look at a formidable tank here. I mean it’s all there already. Perhaps 1 + threat console from embassy (with heals) and this Reiterative Structural Capacitor? I know you are hesitant to spend but with history will remember trait we’d even look at a far out tank right there. Perfect basically on that eng toon of yours and on a eng heavy ship with a command seat.
Neela would try to hide behind your back any day on such a setup.
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Never really thought about it.. but it's an interesting possibility. Really never tried 'tanking' before, but might be fun. I'll look into it, but the biggest obsticle that I see is the lack of the DPRM which seems like a 'must' for tanks. I could acquire the History Will Remember trait easy enough, the lack of the DPRM might hurt though.
I'll see what I can do with it.
Edit: Unfortunately, I don't have the Reiterative Structural Capacitor either. That was given out when I was on a break from STO.
Yea but it’s really just a suggestion you know that.
I often have no idea what to do with my eng toons. Sure one can play them for DPS too even with great results but one ends up being not so good as a tak eventually so why not try out something different.
DPRM is surely best console but it is that on almost all builds. With the lukari one you have and the one I mentioned you still could have great substitutes; I think we would just need to wait for another of those weekend events for you to get it (https://sto.gamepedia.com/Weekend_Event_Store)? As for heals to survive I really only chain those with stuff like reverse shield polarity with the doff that extends it.
With the command seat on the galaxy there is also the option to grab the strong heal Rally point Marker or use Suppression Barrage with FAW.
In any case really cool what you made out of that ship.
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The end result has been very positive and a lot of fun for both toons and the timing of your abilities does feel increasingly natural with a little practice just as he predicted.
Both toons have found their "niche" and are going to stay with it. The only step left now that they have their roles is to swap them over to the spec Sea posted but take 1 point off acc and 1-2 off defense and putting them into torps as I enjoy using the mission sets (Entoiled and Quantum Phase) on them, both of which include a single torpedo. This was a suggested change from Peter in another current build thread for those still wanting to use torps.
I'd say the answer to the thread title is yes.
Thanks again @seaofsorrows and @peterconnorfirst for your excellent advice as well for keeping the build help threads here a good place for those wishing to improve their game.
Glad I was able to provide a little assistance and that you're enjoying the build.
Sure thing mate and coming from you I can surely return that compliment.
I saw that @mustrumridcully0 is a bit hesitant on aux2bat because it was over performing in the past for CD management. Well yea it was and (un)fortunately is again. Nowadays most non-aux dependent high end builds use it again.
Aside from universal CD & (weapons) energy level management you automaticaly trigger the traits Cold Hearted (ship trait) + Controlled Countermeasures (rep trait) + Give your All (pers trait) so they form a superb critter-debuff, self-buff and slef-sustain combo.
Is it OP in light of the alternatives? Yes I think so. But should anybody have a problem using it? No I don’t think so as all elements of it are basically for free and far cheaper than the alternatives the game offers.
Besides, after S13, Cryptic owes us.
In any case OP, I’m sorry if I ran a bit away with Sea on his linked build. He just got me a bit jealous when seeing that he flies such a cool setup on this iconic ship. A tanking role would just come to mind as he has like 95% of the pieces already together for that. It's almost just turn threat stance to on, use the respective cruiser command and let his fleet-mates (me) shoot stuff without any regrets in his shadow.
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If there is any other help you need with your build.. by all means please let us know.
Just a quick word on Aux2Bat.. it's not all upside. It very much limits your choices for ships as you need to have enough Engineering to make it work. It often requires making Universals into Engineering stations which can leave you short elsewhere. It also removes the ability to use anything Aux based which can sometimes be a pain.
I actually think it's in a pretty good place, it has power sure.. but I hardly consider it the only right way. On a ship like the Andromeda/Yamato though.. it just fits like a glove.
I am not opposed to Aux2Bat builds anymore, and a while ago I considered trying it out on some ship, but I just didn't really have a ship that needed the help. But now that I want to fly the Galaxy on my Engineer, I might just have the right ship for.
Te fundamental problem with a Cruiser like the Galaxy is that it just has too many engineering slots, and it's mostly too many because they just don't compete DPS-wise with somethnig like Attack Pattern Beta or Cannon Scatter Volley or Gravity Well. You can get a lot of great healing abilities that way, but if you had the other options, you wouldn't need that much healing, and would beat your foes more quickly. Something like Aux2Bat allows you to make your limited offensive bridge officer powers more useful.
I don't think that's true at all, it's just hard to get anything from the screen shot you posted. You really should consider linking the build from STO Academy so we can see the full build. The build is more then just the items equipped, you need to see Bridge Officer Layout, Traits, Skills.. etc.
I am sure your build is plenty good, we just can't really see it to comment on it.
@seaofsorrows
I have now switched to an Aux2Bat build close but not identical to yours, but I am still not convinced, it doesn't really seem stronger than my previous build. But I haven't had much time to experiment with it.
Of course, it could also be piloting and subtle differences (i haven't respecced yet).
Maybe I have to give Kemocite another chance, but that would also probably mean giving up torpedoes, which I'd regret. I am picking the ship for style, after all.
And also, what I am missing is a comparison to how well others fare with their build - maybe it really won't get much better than what it is now.
It's the Active Space DoFFs that give Aux2Bat the cooldown power, without those, it doesn't work. Also if you have the Starship Trait 'Cold Hearted' make sure that's active too. It's the trait from the T6 Breen Raider.
You should see a pretty sizable difference in damage and cooldowns. On Aux2Bat, Also, make sure you have your Aux Power set to around 50-60 to make sure you get a good power dump when you hit A2B. I usually run 100/20/20/60.
Yea most of the gear choices look solid for an energy weapon/torpedo hybrid there. The story mission space set works and you got the good phaser related items from the stories as well. Perhaps you could get some more universal consoles from reputs or events?
In any case the others are right with the request to be able to see more of the build. Its true that putting the gear together is the most expensive (and therefore the felt important) part of it but considering boff/doff and trait selections its simply just 1/3 of the whole thing. Considering how much of it is interconnected your gear call could be pretty good or in need of further tuning.
Thankfully it would be the cheaper 2/3 of the whole thing.
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Oh, Aux2Bat is working fine, just the overall results don't really seem notably better than my build before. (Where I used Peak Efficiency as primary cooldown reduction source.) Nothing compared to my typical science vessel or even escort builds (though most of those are with Tactical or Science Captains.)
While peak efficiency is a mega good trait for CD management it has the downside of the 80% hull requirement to get it work so it might a bit contra-productive for tacs (go down fighting) or +threat roles (tanking). It also does not trigger the top shiny we have for aux2bat at the moment which would be cold hearted with the attached traits.
Have you that one installed?
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It will probably my next step to get the Plesh Tral from the Drydock and level it up to get the trait. It seems to have some potential. Argala, here I come!
I understand. Unlocking ship traits is not the best STO experience imaginable. I doubt you will regret it in this case though. After the nerf bat of S13 some nick name Cold Hearted the trait that makes space great again.
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If you ultimately decide that this build isn't right for you then I am sure we can come up with something else. Everyone has different taste, I am sure we can find you something you'll like.
This thread inspired me to fly my Yamato today, haven't flown it in a while.. not sure why you're not seeing results but mine really performs quite well. I am enjoying flying it again.
Keep us posted on your progress!
With the red Alerts only during the weekend, i found that Undine Assault Advanced is also a good spot for mastery.
Thanks for the reminder about Controlled Countermeasures.
Build threads are inspirational. My fleet T5U (T5-FU