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Jean Luc Picard Returns - New Star Trek Series Discussion

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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    And animated series allow for far more creativity. Just look at all the crazy aliens and technology in TAS that would have never appeared in any other Star Trek series. Although, I doubt that the Federation will ever abandon exploration since the Federation is about diversity is our strength. Each new alien race in the Federation brings some unique insight, ability, or technology to the Federation. Besides there is always a new realm to explore. Explored the entire Milky Way Galaxy? Then explore the Andromeda Galaxy. Explored the entire universe? Then explore the Mirror Universe. Explored the entire multiverse? Then explore 200,000 BC. I seriously doubt humans would be still around to explore every period of time in every alternate reality or even explore the entire universe for that matter.

    One could argue that isolationism would be the next logical interpretation of the Prime Directive. If you don't want to interfere or become involved in the affairs of other cultures you have to stop seeking them out. In the 23rd century the Prime Directive was just a set of guidelines that were ultimately up to the discretion of the captains, by the 24th century it had been enshrined as unquestionable dogma, who knows what it would become by the 25th century.

    There is also the fact that the Dominion War was the single most devastating conflict the Federation had ever seen. Infrastructure was ravaged, planets were occupied and probably looted, millions if not billions dead and countless more displaced as refugees, the fleet in shambles, the region politically unstable. All of this is going to leave deep psychological scars on the Federation populace, and many of them are going to want to know why it happened and who was responsible. Ultimately this blame would fall on Starfleet and its provocative exploration program.

    All in all I could easily see the 25th century largely being written off as a lost era as the Federation collectively copes with the trauma of the Dominion War.

    It does raise the question about whether the Federation would raise its requirements and Prime Directive to greater extremes as their technology increases. Right now the Prime Directive and admission into the Federation is based on a society building a warp drive. If a society builds a warp drive, then the Federation can interfere all they want. In the 29th Century, would admission to the Federation and the Prime Directive be based around time travel? So if a society doesn't build time travel, would they not admit societies into the Federation?

    As far as Starfleet not exploring, that is completely based around the future TV series. Star Trek is about exploration which was extremely limited in Discovery due to the Klingon War. DS9 had less exploration than TOS, TNG, and Voyager, but that was more due to its stationary location, but it did explore the Bajoran and Cardassian cultures that we knew almost nothing about and introduce new alien visitors to DS9. Klingons had their culture explored far too much in the other TV series that it seems redundant to do it again in Discovery.
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    ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
    What I would like to see is a series exploring Romulan culture and society. Nemesis paid lip-service to the idea (and fell on its face), and one gets the feeling Enterprise was heading in that direction before it got canned.
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    ryan218 wrote: »
    What I would like to see is a series exploring Romulan culture and society. Nemesis paid lip-service to the idea (and fell on its face), and one gets the feeling Enterprise was heading in that direction before it got canned.

    I don't know how accurate this is, but I read on TV Tropes that Manny Coto's writing team was planning to borrow heavily from Diane Duane's novels (especially Rihannsu) for the Romulan War arc, which the ENT continuation novels in fact ended up doing (Admiral Valdore, for example, got a full Duane-style name, Valdore i'Kaleh tr'Irrhaimehn).
    lordgyor wrote: »
    Midnights edge on Discovery, the new Star Trek series with Picard, the effect of Les Moonves on Star Trek and the possible effect of his possible removal could have on star trek.

    Take with a grain of salt if course, but very interesting.

    Midnight's Edge is the Alex Jones of Star Trek fandom. He just posts whatever random BS he made up or read on Reddit as fact and then pulls an Obi-wan when the show predictably contradicts him.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    Midnights edge on Discovery, the new Star Trek series with Picard, the effect of Les Moonves on Star Trek and the possible effect of his possible removal could have on star trek.

    Take with a grain of salt if course, but very interesting.
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    redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Midnight's Edge is the Alex Jones of Star Trek fandom. He just posts whatever random BS he made up or read on Reddit as fact and then pulls an Obi-wan when the show predictably contradicts him.
    Midnight's Edge was fairly good at compiling news articles and presenting them together. I appreciated that I could get an aggregate of popculture news in one video.

    However, when it comes to Star Trek: Discovery, their coverage is, well, garbage.

    The "rumors" are baseless trash and their assertions are based on those same rumors. Their "reviews" of episodes of TRIBBLE are vapid; mostly saying "it's Paramount Trek", "I don't like the way it looks", "the writers don't get Trek", etc. There are story points that could be pointed out as issues, but instead you get insults, political commentary, and "personal feelings". There is humor and entertainment to be found in their Star Trek: Discovery content, but that content is lean on facts.

    Also, their "Paramount/Abrams/Kurtzman" conspiracy is stupid.
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited August 2018
    Why in all the hel|s do people keep posting Midnights Edge videos? He plays 'pin the tail on the rumour' by throwing a bloke from the pub against a dartboard.

    Edit: Look, I don't care if the censor thinks like a 6 year old Mormon. You're not going to stop me wondering by several collective underworlds why something is done.​​
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    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,666 Bug Hunter
    edited August 2018
    artan42 wrote: »
    I wonder when it'll be set? It can only be between Nemesis and Hobus or after Hobus due to Stewart's age. Dealing with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock as the new Federation ambassador to Vulcan would be interesting.

    Yea given Picard's aged almost 25 years since TNG last aired in the Spring of 1994. So if they are going to try to show Human again living typically to 150 years they may even advance the timeline 35 years or more. Either way it will be Picard at the later part of his Career as a Star Fleet Officer, possibly leading up to where he then later takes on a more Ambassador role for the Federation.

    Sto_timeline_setting.png?version=0672b3225bb87c3d8b401ae21cb1a642

    Regardless it's very likely to be 25-40 years following TNG possibly as early as 2395 but possibly also around 2410 where we find the game currently today. Regardless I'm sure it's likely to be very exciting... It's GREAT to see a Star Trek series moving forward for a change.
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    alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    strathkin wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    I wonder when it'll be set? It can only be between Nemesis and Hobus or after Hobus due to Stewart's age. Dealing with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock as the new Federation ambassador to Vulcan would be interesting.

    Yea given Picard's aged almost 25 years since TNG last aired in the Spring of 1994. So if they are going to try to show Human again living typically to 150 years they may even advance the timeline 35 years or more. Either way it will be Picard at the later part of his Career as a Star Fleet Officer, possibly leading up to where he then later takes on a more Ambassador role for the Federation.

    Sto_timeline_setting.png?version=0672b3225bb87c3d8b401ae21cb1a642

    Regardless it's very likely to be 25-40 years following TNG possibly as early as 2395 but possibly also around 2410 where we find the game currently today. Regardless I'm sure it's likely to be very exciting... It's GREAT to see a Star Trek series moving forward for a change.

    I like how 2009 is on there, but unlabeled. "We do not speak of this year... something happened. Something terrible. A crime against all decency. It is best forgotten."
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    luminaire#0745 luminaire Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    I am, cautiously optimistic? I liked TNG and who doesn't want to see more of Captain Picard. On the other hand I've seen the Emoji Movie, so I know that Stewarts involvement doesn't necessarily guarantee quality of concept so much as quantity of dollars.

    Still, we can hope, and maybe his standards will be higher for returning to a character that was such a big part of his life and career. I would love to finally go back to the prime timeline and the characters and places that actually made me love Trek in the first place.
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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    Personally, I am hoping for Jean Luc Picard, Xenoarchaeologist since it fits Picard's interest and far more entertaining than Jean Luc Picard, Ambassador to Vulcan. Although, Ambassador to Qo'noS would certainly be interesting.
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    lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    Personally, I am hoping for Jean Luc Picard, Xenoarchaeologist since it fits Picard's interest and far more entertaining than Jean Luc Picard, Ambassador to Vulcan. Although, Ambassador to Qo'noS would certainly be interesting.

    Yeah, that whole idea of him being Ambassador to Vulcan always seemed like a step down for the character. Considering all his diplomatic skill, being the ambassador to a long standing ally is pretty much a waste of his talents. It feels more like a cushy position that a corrupt politician would award to one of their cronies who isn't talented enough to hold a position with actual authority.

    Having him as the Ambassador to the Romulans would be a lot more interesting, especially in a post-Hobus scenario.
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    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    Personally, I am hoping for Jean Luc Picard, Xenoarchaeologist since it fits Picard's interest and far more entertaining than Jean Luc Picard, Ambassador to Vulcan. Although, Ambassador to Qo'noS would certainly be interesting.

    Yeah, that whole idea of him being Ambassador to Vulcan always seemed like a step down for the character. Considering all his diplomatic skill, being the ambassador to a long standing ally is pretty much a waste of his talents. It feels more like a cushy position that a corrupt politician would award to one of their cronies who isn't talented enough to hold a position with actual authority.

    Having him as the Ambassador to the Romulans would be a lot more interesting, especially in a post-Hobus scenario.

    Perhaps. But his meld with Sarek and later Spock, it has left him impressionable to the Vulcans in a way he never considered before. He knew of them in a far different light than most others from the outside can observe and for a diplomat like Picard and knowing he is a man who loves lifes many pleasures as you seen through TNG with the activities he gets into. A cushy retirement on Vulcan learning about them, advancing the cause of understanding within the federation and acting as a special envoy to other races coming for a visit. It seems like him to consider the position.

    But he has also got a passion for digging up secrets in the past as well and there could still be many unearth treasures within the federation to explore and perhpas combining it with his ambassadorial position.


    Doesn't make much sense on the Romulan front, the Imperial Romulans might have the occasional honorable member of their society but the covert nature of the Tal Shiar and the threat they impose on their people even after Romulus, it makes working with them especially dangerous after the Vulcan's refused to help with the Hobus star, as far the Imperials are concerned they will never trust the federation after such a display.

    Picard also representing the dissident movement, essentially a terrorist underground element and a direct threat to the Tal Shiar's efforts to control its people, it wouldn't do any good if the Romulans linked him with terrorist actitivies, regardless if they are accurate or a lie, just knowing that he was there undercutting the empire even more will make relations worse than ever.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Yeah Vulcan is a great place for Picard to be as an ambassador. He has ties to Vulcans already, and it's a good place for him to live if he's going to be a part-time archaeologist. Also while he's stationed there he can visit other places periodically.
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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    Yeah Vulcan is a great place for Picard to be as an ambassador. He has ties to Vulcans already, and it's a good place for him to live if he's going to be a part-time archaeologist. Also while he's stationed there he can visit other places periodically.

    Vulcan is a great place for retirement. The only way that Picard being an Ambassador on Vulcan would be interesting is Reunification. Having Vulcans dealing with a bunch of Romulan refugees living on their planet would certainly be interesting.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Well, we know from TNG that Picard is a big fan of Reunification.
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    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    Well, we know from TNG that Picard is a big fan of Reunification.

    A potential thought: The reunification efforts were completely scuppered after Romulus was destroyed in canon, and that any hope went out and those sympathetic Romulans lost all faith in the Vulcan cause when they learned that the Vulcans didn't care enough to want to save the Romulan species on their homeworld. Those Romulans felt betrayed and it pushed them right into the hands of the empire and there by making the empire far more unified than it ever was before hand.

    I'd hate to be the one in Cryptic to have to adjust the Romulan storyline from the ground up, or worse remove the whole thing because it isn't representative of working from a canon source like STO has always been about.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Well, we know from TNG that Picard is a big fan of Reunification.
    A potential thought: The reunification efforts were completely scuppered after Romulus was destroyed in canon, and that any hope went out and those sympathetic Romulans lost all faith in the Vulcan cause when they learned that the Vulcans didn't care enough to want to save the Romulan species on their homeworld. Those Romulans felt betrayed and it pushed them right into the hands of the empire and there by making the empire far more unified than it ever was before hand.

    I'd hate to be the one in Cryptic to have to adjust the Romulan storyline from the ground up, or worse remove the whole thing because it isn't representative of working from a canon source like STO has always been about.
    Given that we have NO idea what the new series will do?

    Actually... Hobus exploded in 2387, this is set 12 years later. Right about the time that the Gorn/Klingon war is in full swing. And shortly after he retires from his ambassador position and goes to Earth. Then Taris and Sela start engaging in open warfare to decide who will rule the remains of the RSE.

    read it: https://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore
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    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Well, we know from TNG that Picard is a big fan of Reunification.
    A potential thought: The reunification efforts were completely scuppered after Romulus was destroyed in canon, and that any hope went out and those sympathetic Romulans lost all faith in the Vulcan cause when they learned that the Vulcans didn't care enough to want to save the Romulan species on their homeworld. Those Romulans felt betrayed and it pushed them right into the hands of the empire and there by making the empire far more unified than it ever was before hand.

    I'd hate to be the one in Cryptic to have to adjust the Romulan storyline from the ground up, or worse remove the whole thing because it isn't representative of working from a canon source like STO has always been about.
    Given that we have NO idea what the new series will do?

    Actually... Hobus exploded in 2387, this is set 12 years later. Right about the time that the Gorn/Klingon war is in full swing. And shortly after he retires from his ambassador position and goes to Earth. Then Taris and Sela start engaging in open warfare to decide who will rule the remains of the RSE.

    read it: https://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore

    i'm not interested in your negativity on the matter or how much you want to throw that lore book at me that i'm well aware of. The new Picard series could throw all that out the window since as you mentioned yourself we have no idea. but i'm just throwing out the idea that there could be such a curveball thrown into the mix it could cause all sorts of issues canon wise and game canon wise that nothing should taken for granted.

    if anything i was hoping you'd work with me on exploring the potential on the matter rather than just not considering it at all.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    if anything i was hoping you'd work with me on exploring the potential on the matter rather than just not considering it at all.
    "Exploring the potential"?
    I'd hate to be the one in Cryptic to have to adjust the Romulan storyline from the ground up, or worse remove the whole thing because it isn't representative of working from a canon source like STO has always been about.
    To be frank, this sounds like you just want to ponder what affect it will have on the STO story but what reason do we have to think the new series will go in a radically different direction?
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    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    if anything i was hoping you'd work with me on exploring the potential on the matter rather than just not considering it at all.
    "Exploring the potential"?
    I'd hate to be the one in Cryptic to have to adjust the Romulan storyline from the ground up, or worse remove the whole thing because it isn't representative of working from a canon source like STO has always been about.
    To be frank, this sounds like you just want to ponder what affect it will have on the STO story but what reason do we have to think the new series will go in a radically different direction?

    do you really expect that we will revisit places from before? rehash events from TNG and continue like nothing has changed before? or will there be a series that will be more dedicated to new original exploration means. all the star trek series were about "exploring the potential" in new possibilities.
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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    To be frank, this sounds like you just want to ponder what affect it will have on the STO story but what reason do we have to think the new series will go in a radically different direction?

    Why would the new Star Trek series be limited to STO canon? Obviously, it will go in a radically different direction. The only issue is how radically different it will be.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    To be frank, this sounds like you just want to ponder what affect it will have on the STO story but what reason do we have to think the new series will go in a radically different direction?

    Why would the new Star Trek series be limited to STO canon? Obviously, it will go in a radically different direction. The only issue is how radically different it will be.
    Not obvious at all. The Road to 2409 is in broad strokes; there's plenty of room in there to play.

    Of course, it may well turn out to completely ignore STO - that's their privilege - but it's not "obvious" that this will be the case.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    To be frank, this sounds like you just want to ponder what affect it will have on the STO story but what reason do we have to think the new series will go in a radically different direction?
    Why would the new Star Trek series be limited to STO canon? Obviously, it will go in a radically different direction. The only issue is how radically different it will be.
    Not obvious at all. The Road to 2409 is in broad strokes; there's plenty of room in there to play.

    Of course, it may well turn out to completely ignore STO - that's their privilege - but it's not "obvious" that this will be the case.
    I suspect they've been borrowing from STO's take on Star Trek already. That Orion colony/embassy/whatever on Qo'nos yeah.... looks familiar. Are the writers obligated? nah, but as broad as the path to 2409 is, it's not a stretch to think they'll stay with it.
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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    To be frank, this sounds like you just want to ponder what affect it will have on the STO story but what reason do we have to think the new series will go in a radically different direction?

    Why would the new Star Trek series be limited to STO canon? Obviously, it will go in a radically different direction. The only issue is how radically different it will be.
    Not obvious at all. The Road to 2409 is in broad strokes; there's plenty of room in there to play.

    Of course, it may well turn out to completely ignore STO - that's their privilege - but it's not "obvious" that this will be the case.

    There are still a few major points in the Path to 2409. 2399 has the Klingons learn about the Undine controlling the Gorn Hegemony which results in the Klingon/Gorn War. The Klingons and Orions invade Gorn space and attack the Gorn and Nausicaans. The Federation condemns the Klingon-Gorn War which results in the Klingons destroying their alliance with the Federation. On a more minor note, the Federation Transwarp network opens up. So 2399 is an extremely eventful year in the STO Timeline that can't be avoided if CBS wants STO in the same timeline as the new Star Trek series. Then there is all the history between Nemesis and 2399 that needs to be adhered to. Far easier to just ignore STO and create whatever story they want since STO is non-canon. TV Series writers want to create their own spin and not rehash the same old content from a video game.
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