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Are players incapable of fighting the Tzenkethi in space?

tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,647 Arc User
For about three days now, I've been trying to collect Protomatter Containers and Lukari marks for use in the various Lukari Reputation projects.
Since I was running a bit low on Lukari marks, today I decided to really put in some effort to get a successful run.
These were the causes of the failures:

Tzenkethi Queue: When 2 of the Tzenkethi bases were destroyed, at least 2 members of the team quit because it was getting too difficult due to enemy ships increasing their numbers around the allied Starbase, followed shortly thereafter by a third.

Tzenkethi Red Alert: One of more satelites gets destroyed, allowing a Protomatter torpedo to reach the planet and cause a failure/no reward ending.

Day 1: Nobody queued for the Tzenkethi Queue which provided the Protomatter Container.
Day 2: Queue Quitting when it got difficult.
Day 3: Both quitting and Protomatter fail condition.

Day 3 was especially frustrating, because I spent 2 hours trying to get just one daily box of Lukari marks before conceding it wasn't going to happen. :'( :# :s

Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
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Comments

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,065 Arc User
    edited July 12
    I’m sorry for your experience but sadly this is daily pug reality in STO.

    I only queue public for Tzenkethi Front with at least 1 wing-man I can count on. That way we can also utilize the +/- threat mechanic to steal and deliver bombs quickly.

    My suggestion to you would be to join DPS Bronze and ask for private teamed runs. While the map itself does not require much DPS in advanced it requires a bit of teamwork which you could organize there. :)

    https://www.sto-league.com/
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • admrenlarreckadmrenlarreck Member Posts: 2,032 Arc User
    Plus right now just about everyone is farming birds and monkeys, so they can change them into marks, and then the marks into the special items. like the container.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 6,894 Arc User
    Someone still plays Tzenkethi Front?
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,065 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Someone still plays Tzenkethi Front?

    Yep, just not your obvious pug choice. The payout is fair and since it is a not time gated mission it directly corresponds with a team’s performance in there, especially on elite. :)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 7,096 Arc User
    I'm surprised anyone is playing anything Tzen'kethi to begin with.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 3,572 Arc User
    the lukari missions were too ambitious and were never going to last longer than a couple weeks. the gamma mission is a good model going forward. I hated the Na'kuhl and Tzen'kethi immunity gag and hope we never return to it.

    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    ARE PLAYERS INCAPABLE OF FIGHTING THE TZENKETHI IN SPACE?

    My observation from the last couple of times I tried to do those queues is yes.

    The majority of people don't seem to know that: 1)the smaller ships reinforce the shields on larger ships, so you have to kill them; 2)The fore shields are the weakest and where you need to concentrate fire to kill quicker; 3)And the most irritating, if you hide under the lip of the stations right next to them, you can blow them up and take minimal damage without being interrupted by TZ ships hitting you, so don't necessarily need a second player to take the threat.

    If everyone learned these three things, the queues on ADV wouldn't be too tough.
  • schloopdooschloopdoo Member Posts: 346 Arc User
    edited July 12
    I'm having similar difficulty trying to assemble Temporal Marks and Chroniton Buffers this week. As another posted pointed out, the Risa event is drawing a lot of the traffic while it lasts.

    The enemies in PvE also seem to be a lot tougher at level 65 than they were at 60, in my experience. This is probably for the best - level 50 reputation gear was still good enough at level 60, and the upgrade system was only used by hotrodders trying to prove how high they could get their DPS meter scores in the eight year old Infected Space instance. When more players catch on and start bumping their gear up to Mk XV, the instances will get a lot easier for everybody.
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,428 Arc User
    If you're just looking for a daily box, do a Borg Red Alert or solo cap a point in the battlezone. Relying on people to queue for these things and be competent at them is asking to be frustrated.
    Before you say that nobody asked for a feature, remember that an online game is not a democracy.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    Ummm just farm regular marks and convert to elite marks... elite marks in ques is a total waste of time... purely for extra time sink imo since you not only need high dps but you need a full team. other reps have no elite marks or can do open missions in battlezones... space better than ground.
  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 268 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    For about three days now, I've been trying to collect Protomatter Containers and Lukari marks for use in the various Lukari Reputation projects.
    Since I was running a bit low on Lukari marks, today I decided to really put in some effort to get a successful run.
    These were the causes of the failures:

    Tzenkethi Queue: When 2 of the Tzenkethi bases were destroyed, at least 2 members of the team quit because it was getting too difficult due to enemy ships increasing their numbers around the allied Starbase, followed shortly thereafter by a third.

    Tzenkethi Red Alert: One of more satelites gets destroyed, allowing a Protomatter torpedo to reach the planet and cause a failure/no reward ending.

    Day 1: Nobody queued for the Tzenkethi Queue which provided the Protomatter Container.
    Day 2: Queue Quitting when it got difficult.
    Day 3: Both quitting and Protomatter fail condition.

    Day 3 was especially frustrating, because I spent 2 hours trying to get just one daily box of Lukari marks before conceding it wasn't going to happen. :'( :# :s

    Do Events.....currently that is raising birds and monkeys on Risa...and turn them in for Lukari marks. The Breach que also pays out in marks of your choice. I've gotten five toons to Level 5 in Competitive PVE...and 3 of 5 in Lukari...without ever running a que in it by this method. To mimimize aggravation, grind one all the way first so they can use sponsorship tokens to level up the others quicker. Fighting Tzenkethi ques is a serious chore without a competent team, so I don't.
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    I'm surprised anyone is playing anything Tzen'kethi to begin with.

    This is the problem I have noticed with the Tzen'kethi Battlezone, max I've seen is like 6 people and those were not in there long enough to make a difference (I'm thinking some people give up because they don't look at the instance numbers), and this is multiple days/nights of observation through a week. And Gravity Kills? I've not seen anyone queue for that forever, even though it is an interesting queue, it's just not something that works without teamwork. Also had a horrible Tzen'kethi Front Normal Queue that went horrid in terms of taking a year and day to finish...and most surely is due to varied Levels people are at, and maybe scaling as some have called about. Good Luck Queuing up Dranuur Beach Assualt with PUG.

    If you want Lukari Marks, the best queue to deal with is Dranuur Gauntlet because it seems time based more than not, and really depends what enemy is spawned in (assume you will loose everything with Voth, Undine, Tzen'kethi and Vaadwaur, especially on advanced if not DPS maven...or people thinking that their Tac power needs to arm a satellite that needs to be the **** Shield). Or, do the Normal Queue Tzen'kethi Red Alert assuming your PUG/team knows what it is doing when defending satellites, and shooting the torps down, it seems best tactic for some groups is to focus on eliminating the Attacking Tzen'kethi, killing out all the waves of them as they have I guess 5-6 per Satellite, then going for the torp Battle Cruiser groups with chance of some of their ads having come to you at the satellite for ease of dealing with them, also FAW/CSV/TS/Pets help.

    schloopdoo wrote: »
    I'm having similar difficulty trying to assemble Temporal Marks and Chroniton Buffers this week. .....The enemies in PvE also seem to be a lot tougher at level 65 than they were at 60, in my experience. …. When more players catch on and start bumping their gear up to Mk XV, the instances will get a lot easier for everybody.

    To avoid the horrible time(hehe) consuming Battle of Power Over 5000, and sometimes Days of Doom runs... Miner Instabilities is honestly the fastest to run IMO, everyone bashes ground but honestly it's pretty much best way for Temporal Marks.

    For your Chroniton Buffers... Badlands Battlezone. Yes!, That is right, the Mirror Invasion Zone! You will literally be overburdened by the Chroniton Buffers from it (along with the Terran Gravimetric Inducers). Much like how if you want Voth Cybernetic Implants or Isomorphic Injectors at once, where Undine Space Battlezone is the go to for your Cyberpunk Biohacking Addiction! (And if you need 2 Ancient Power Cells or 2 Iconian Probe Datacores at once per 20 hours the Two Kobali Prime Ground Battlezone "At the Gates" "The Last Stand" missions, otherwise do the queues for them.)

    As for the Tougher: yes, because it seems when you have people at various levels the player scaling can handicap some, and some people have newer characters or returning due to VIL, so some is Gear at Mk XV and some is the NPC scaling...also Some enemies are using more powers that they never had before, or didn't use much, and are more aggressive.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,142 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    ARE PLAYERS INCAPABLE OF FIGHTING THE TZENKETHI IN SPACE?
    Yes.

    As someone who's first ship choice is a Raider, it feels... weird shooting my opponents in the face. Honorable space combat is conducted by sneaking up on your opponent and stabbing them in the back.

    I think Cryptic needs to change this unnatural mechanic to better suit my playstyle.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    Before VIL I took Tzenkethi names and kicked butt. Those torpedo salvos they fire at you now... NASTY... had x17 times the power up
    K0UyZy.gif

  • captyoung01captyoung01 Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    I like many others here have come across this. So I ask myself, since when are we too weak to play in Normal PVE's? This Crt Damage we are receiving on this/these Normal events is just ridiculus, it's like recieving NPC damage from an Advanced/Elite game. But it's not just the Tzenkethi Red Alert either Counter Point is another example. Cryptic seems to forget that many people with MK 12 Gear on are trying to get their points and earn thier way up. We don't need one or more people dying off and respawning multiple times in a Normal PVE because they can't take the damage, which results in what many here have experienced, an "Epic fail". Npc's need to be balanced on Normal PVE's. Games gotten to the point that it is not enjoyable any more. After the Summer event I am going to have to step away from this game for a long while, that's how frustrating this has become.

    On another note, extreme Crt Damage isn't the thing. It's the constant "Declines" on quene up's that are just as frustrating too.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • schloopdooschloopdoo Member Posts: 346 Arc User
    kaggert27 wrote: »
    For your Chroniton Buffers... Badlands Battlezone. Yes!, That is right, the Mirror Invasion Zone! You will literally be overburdened by the Chroniton Buffers from it (along with the Terran Gravimetric Inducers). Much like how if you want Voth Cybernetic Implants or Isomorphic Injectors at once, where Undine Space Battlezone is the go to for your Cyberpunk Biohacking Addiction! (And if you need 2 Ancient Power Cells or 2 Iconian Probe Datacores at once per 20 hours the Two Kobali Prime Ground Battlezone "At the Gates" "The Last Stand" missions, otherwise do the queues for them.)

    Getting Terran Task Force gear for my Klingon made a Badlands Battlezone fan out of me. It's just hard during the Risa event, from what I've seen. When I'm on, there just aren't enough players there. They'll come back.

  • trekpuppytrekpuppy Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    Cryptic seems to forget that many people with MK 12 Gear on are trying to get their points and earn thier way up.

    I doubt they have forgotten. They simply want everyone to open their wallets and upgrade to Mk 15. Mk 16 icons are already prepared so we know that will come when the flow of cash dries up.

    With that said, I got 10 people together for the BZ yesterday and we almost managed to beat it. But while we were working on the final area, another one flipped and we could never catch up to that last one. Just a couple of more people and we would've beaten it. An observation made by @e8333 was that no friendly NPC ships assisted in defending after capture. They all got stuck in each other and did nothing which is why it's so darn difficult to keep the zone captured.

    GyKn32h.jpg


    ---
    "-Grind is good!" --Gordon Geko
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 7,144 Arc User
    Nope, have not had even the slightest of problems handling the tzenkethi. They die just as fast and easy as everything else. Makes no difference whatsoever if I'm on a Sci, Eng, or Tac, makes no difference if I'm using Mk XII or Mk XIV, they die just as easy.
    #TASinSTO

    Kurland lives!
  • coldfire473coldfire473 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Just do Borg and Tholian Red Alerts, get them done in about 10 mins combined and convert the marks to whatever item you need. More marks, nearly instant queues and they actually get completed.
  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 1,289 Arc User
    I'm not sure if it's so much incapable as it is unable.

    WAITING FOR QUEUE TO POP...
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,647 Arc User
    Ah yes, I forgot the number one rule of mark gathering for Star Trek Online, never try to do it while everyone is off Event Smeerp chasing.
    It seems all the Pros are too easily distracted by that and aren't making time for the Queues.

    I don't do Dranaur Gauntlet and would prefer not to do Tzenkethi Red Alert because they don't award a Protomatter Container for completion.
    Given that I have so few Lukari marks remaining, I don't have enough of an surplus available for conversion.
    And I tried it once, it can only be done every 20 hours, so it would take 5 days to acquire enough for a gear item.


    About teaming channels, the last two I was a member was an unpleasant experience due to member hostility, so I'm not prepared to consider joining any others.
    In my personal experience, it doesn't make a difference anyway, since the players only choose to go to the easiest/most popular queues and automatically ignore all requests for gameplay assistance that aren't related to those.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 5,950 Arc User
    I would seriously check out the DPS channels. They run many different queues...and any you are interested in and want to run gets filled pretty quick. At least the space ones. Ground is another matter :p . And pros don't PuG usually. They hang out in private channels. Why do they not PuG? Because they never pop. And since they don't play in the publick queues, those who need to be carried don't play...which causes the queues to not pop. It's a vicious cycle.
  • mattjohnsonvamattjohnsonva Member Posts: 4,481 Arc User
    It depends on the players. We fight them all the time in our foundry missions, on elite with 5 team members they make Tzenkethi Front look like a picnic with teddy bears. You must learn how to hit them hard and what not to do, e.g. no grav wells unless you like instadeath, when the spatial charges appear around your ship gtfo. Target the cruisers first, absolutely no point in targeting battleships or dreads unless they are isolated. It takes a good team and practise to get it right, you would be very lucky to get anywhere in a pug. Join a good fleet, we've nearly 1000 events so far this year, and Tzenkethi are our bread an butter, currently the hardest NPC to defeat but certainly not impossible.
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    I did a tzenkethi queue once in my T6 Intrepid, the one with the black hole.
    I got separated from the group, and was stuck fighting ONE cruiser... for the entire mission, over an hour, before everyone quit. I simply couldn't hurt it. It couldn't kill me either, but I was doing NO damage to it.

    Between their ships being nearly invulnerable to everything and their constantly spamming spreads of oneshot torpedoes, they're not any fun to play against... so no one does.

    Game design at its finest.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 10,801 Arc User
    I just did a Dranuur Gauntlet Advanced (PUG), to see what the fuss was all about. They're tough, I'll give ya that, but they bleed just like the rest. :) And we finished it with Optionals just fine.
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 5,950 Arc User
    I did a tzenkethi queue once in my T6 Intrepid, the one with the black hole.
    I got separated from the group, and was stuck fighting ONE cruiser... for the entire mission, over an hour, before everyone quit. I simply couldn't hurt it. It couldn't kill me either, but I was doing NO damage to it.

    Between their ships being nearly invulnerable to everything and their constantly spamming spreads of oneshot torpedoes, they're not any fun to play against... so no one does.

    Game design at its finest.

    I don't know what you are talking about. Even with the cruisers buffing other ships, I can easily nuke them all in second...just like everything else in this game. And that is the problem. There are players like you who can't hurt them and player like me who vape them in seconds...and player better than me that vapes then in FRACTIONS of a second. There is only so much game design can handle. And that level of disparity ain't something that is easy to handle.
  • mattjohnsonvamattjohnsonva Member Posts: 4,481 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I did a tzenkethi queue once in my T6 Intrepid, the one with the black hole.
    I got separated from the group, and was stuck fighting ONE cruiser... for the entire mission, over an hour, before everyone quit. I simply couldn't hurt it. It couldn't kill me either, but I was doing NO damage to it.

    Between their ships being nearly invulnerable to everything and their constantly spamming spreads of oneshot torpedoes, they're not any fun to play against... so no one does.

    Game design at its finest.

    I don't know what you are talking about. Even with the cruisers buffing other ships, I can easily nuke them all in second...just like everything else in this game. And that is the problem. There are players like you who can't hurt them and player like me who vape them in seconds...and player better than me that vapes then in FRACTIONS of a second. There is only so much game design can handle. And that level of disparity ain't something that is easy to handle.

    This ^^

    Practice, build, gear, boff abilities, strategy, you need them all to be the difference between someone who can't kill one ship and someone who can take on the entire fleet, and on normal difficulty sure you can vape them. Normal is so ridiculously easy for all enemies, if you're struggling on normal difficulty you really need to do some research.
  • tacticoolfugga#9235 tacticoolfugga Member Posts: 243 Arc User
    I would like to see when someone leaves a queue, “X” amount of marks are instantly rewarded to the remaining players. I’m starting to see people leave the Swarm queue when people forget to send power to all the Jem’Hadar ships in the first round.
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I did a tzenkethi queue once in my T6 Intrepid, the one with the black hole.
    I got separated from the group, and was stuck fighting ONE cruiser... for the entire mission, over an hour, before everyone quit. I simply couldn't hurt it. It couldn't kill me either, but I was doing NO damage to it.

    Between their ships being nearly invulnerable to everything and their constantly spamming spreads of oneshot torpedoes, they're not any fun to play against... so no one does.

    Game design at its finest.

    I don't know what you are talking about. Even with the cruisers buffing other ships, I can easily nuke them all in second...just like everything else in this game. And that is the problem. There are players like you who can't hurt them and player like me who vape them in seconds...and player better than me that vapes then in FRACTIONS of a second. There is only so much game design can handle. And that level of disparity ain't something that is easy to handle.

    You're entirely right... and that's what I'm talking about. The power creep has made much of the content unplayable if you're using more ordinary gear. In order to make enemies capable of handling the absurd amount of damage many players can produce now, they've been made unassailable to anyone NOT so equipped.
    The ship I described is fairly well equipped, the result of grinding what I could for several years... and it STILL wasn't capable of hurting a single Tzenkethi cruiser.

    Fortunately, it's able to handle the Hur'q fairly well. NONE of my other characters can last more than a 20th of a second against them, unfortunately.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 5,950 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I did a tzenkethi queue once in my T6 Intrepid, the one with the black hole.
    I got separated from the group, and was stuck fighting ONE cruiser... for the entire mission, over an hour, before everyone quit. I simply couldn't hurt it. It couldn't kill me either, but I was doing NO damage to it.

    Between their ships being nearly invulnerable to everything and their constantly spamming spreads of oneshot torpedoes, they're not any fun to play against... so no one does.

    Game design at its finest.

    I don't know what you are talking about. Even with the cruisers buffing other ships, I can easily nuke them all in second...just like everything else in this game. And that is the problem. There are players like you who can't hurt them and player like me who vape them in seconds...and player better than me that vapes then in FRACTIONS of a second. There is only so much game design can handle. And that level of disparity ain't something that is easy to handle.

    You're entirely right... and that's what I'm talking about. The power creep has made much of the content unplayable if you're using more ordinary gear. In order to make enemies capable of handling the absurd amount of damage many players can produce now, they've been made unassailable to anyone NOT so equipped.
    The ship I described is fairly well equipped, the result of grinding what I could for several years... and it STILL wasn't capable of hurting a single Tzenkethi cruiser.

    Fortunately, it's able to handle the Hur'q fairly well. NONE of my other characters can last more than a 20th of a second against them, unfortunately.

    It's not power creep. Most of my ships don't use any of the latest and greatest power creep items. Hell some of my ships that can vape the tzenkethi are using mark XII common items that you buy off the marketplace for like 50k ec or less. Yeah this is in normal and not advanced or elite like my main ships...but really, what it takes to do this isn't hard to get...at all. The problem is that this game allows stacking. That was a terrible mistake on the dev's part. Games break when you allow stacking. The problem is a core game design issue...not a power creep one. You have people who understand stacking...and those who do not. And because stacking is an exponential curve in offense, the better you understand how to do it...the more and more of a gap you create vs those who do not. Now as to why a good defense is a bad idea...defense in this game stack sure...but is CAPPED and grows linearly. Hull and shield grows linearly as well. This is why it is quantifiably better to go offense is a good defense. The math does not lie.

    Oh and my best ship runs the following...

    Fore weapon, crafted plasma single cannon, crafted plasma wide arc cannon, quad plasma cannon, Grav torp from rep.
    Aft weapon, 3x crafted plasma turrets
    Experimental, voice of the prophet from event ship
    Solanae 3 piece with a fleet amp core.
    Engineer console, plasmonic, valdore console, morrigu console, Crafted RCS
    Sci console, Temporal disentanglement, dyson rep console (the proton thingy)
    Tact console, 5x fleet vul locators, plasma flavor.

    And the dyson rep stuff I sometimes switch to kentari rapid missles and interphasic console...which are mission items and parse higher actually. I like the grav torp because it's fun. Especially with TS. But as you can see, most if the items on there are quite old. Oh and VotP is not the best weapon to place there. I use it because I like the special effect. The rainbow radiation gun that comes with the newest pilot ships do the best...followed by the railgun. So basically The stuff I use are either old stuff...or stuff WORSE than some of the older stuff I have that I choose not to use for...well basically looks. So...yeah...not really an issue of power creep. It's an issue of understanding the game.
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