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Does anyone enjoy Endgame more than the episodes?

dtrekkiedtrekkie Member Posts: 62 Arc User
Just out of pure curiosity, does anyone enjoy the endgame content more than the episodes? For me, the episodes are my favorite part of the game by far. As a whole, I like them ten times more than the endgame content, and that may not be an exaggeration. Something about going on a story driven adventure in the Star Trek universe really really appeals to me. I genuinely feel a big rush playing some of them. That said, I don't usually like to replay them.

The endgame grind of repeating the same STFs over and over, each time possibly with better gear does not even remotely come close to the joy I get from the episodes. For some of the queues, it can feel like being forced (not literally) to play an episode over and over. Even with my favorite episodes, I wouldn't want to play them dozens of times. That would feel like torture. I do like the battlezones a lot more because they feel more like repeatable content (hopefully that makes sense). If one agrees with me, feel free to comment too of course.



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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 5,569 Arc User
    edited July 9
    dtrekkie wrote: »
    Just out of pure curiosity, does anyone enjoy the endgame content more than the episodes? For me, the episodes are my favorite part of the game by far. As a whole, I like them ten times more than the endgame content, and that may not be an exaggeration. Something about going on a story driven adventure in the Star Trek universe really really appeals to me. I genuinely feel a big rush playing some of them. That said, I don't usually like to replay them.

    The endgame grind of repeating the same STFs over and over, each time possibly with better gear does not even remotely come close to the joy I get from the episodes. For some of the queues, it can feel like being forced (not literally) to play an episode over and over. Even with my favorite episodes, I wouldn't want to play them dozens of times. That would feel like torture. I do like the battlezones a lot more because they feel more like repeatable content (hopefully that makes sense). If one agrees with me, feel free to comment too of course.



    Why choose between them?

    Mission Queues, special events, Battle Zones, Episode Replay, Foundry Missions, Red Alerts.. it's all part of 'end game content.'

    I do it all, sometimes I want to run queues with my fleet, sometimes I want to pick a cool mission or an entire arc and play through it.. sometimes battle zones, etc.

    Generally, my favorite things are the queues with fleet or Battle Zones, but I do all of it.

    The only things I don't really get into are the special events. I do the Winter Race and the Flying High events for the ships, but I don't take part in anything else in the Wonderland or Risa. None of it interests me, but I have other things to do so it's all good.
  • crashdragoncrashdragon Member Posts: 8,905 Arc User
    edited July 9
    Yes, yes I do, I see the episodes as a bit of a change, then it's back to mayhem, explosions and giggles.

    Victory is STF's and Accolades. >=3

    Then again, I did grow up with Space Invaders and the like.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,065 Arc User
    I really only enjoy stories the first time I play them. As for Hive Space Elite it’s the other way around, the more I play it the more I like it.
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  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    I think a replay incentive for endgamers should really stimulate the replayability of the missions to avoid users burning out from repeating STFs that usually award fast and good rewards. Also adding new items to each reputation really stimulates our goal here.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 6,894 Arc User
    Most of the content in STO is enjoyable. Unfortunately, the game gives precious little incentive to ever play any of it.

    The queues all put out more or less the same generic currencies, most of them in amounts that are nowhere near being even in the same ballpark with the top two. Battlezones are the same.

    Episodes have their unique gear sets, but since those are guaranteed and pick-what-you-want, they are worth only 3-4 playtimes at best. If and only if you want the set for some reason in the first place (they aren't actually needed for anything).

    And then there's That One Patrol everyone likes to must grind ship XP on...well, everyone who has ships that need XP to grind.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Most of the content in STO is enjoyable. Unfortunately, the game gives precious little incentive to ever play any of it.

    The queues all put out more or less the same generic currencies, most of them in amounts that are nowhere near being even in the same ballpark with the top two. Battlezones are the same.

    Episodes have their unique gear sets, but since those are guaranteed and pick-what-you-want, they are worth only 3-4 playtimes at best. If and only if you want the set for some reason in the first place (they aren't actually needed for anything).

    And then there's That One Patrol everyone likes to must grind ship XP on...well, everyone who has ships that need XP to grind.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Most of the content in STO is enjoyable. Unfortunately, the game gives precious little incentive to ever play any of it.

    The queues all put out more or less the same generic currencies, most of them in amounts that are nowhere near being even in the same ballpark with the top two. Battlezones are the same.

    Episodes have their unique gear sets, but since those are guaranteed and pick-what-you-want, they are worth only 3-4 playtimes at best. If and only if you want the set for some reason in the first place (they aren't actually needed for anything).

    And then there's That One Patrol everyone likes to must grind ship XP on...well, everyone who has ships that need XP to grind.

    The main problem with the queues is rather simple. Mot of them are dead, because why bother running more than Borg, Tholian and Tzemkethi Red Alerts for what ever mark you need.

    The choice marks are what really kills the end game here. They make all the other queues complete and utterly pointless. Sure, you can run Adv for the elite marks, to speed up getting any gear you want. But, if you're not in that big of a hurry, meh, takes 5 days to get a piece of gear by trading in 100 marks on said Elite mark.

    But, you're also right. There's no incentive to play queues, or even rerun episodes, after you have all the gear you want from it. You can ignore them, just like the endeavor system.

    Which, the endeavor system, is a waste of time for any one to bother with. It's rewards are mediocre, at best. I can make more off a Tour the Galaxy than I can in 2 or 3 of these thing, which takes up to 6 day. Tour the Galaxy I can run daily, on all my character if i choose. Some could are the occassional dilithium reward is worth it. But, again, 2000 dil? Meh, 5 contraband gets me that a day. Meaning 4k dil on one character, I have like 10, so 20K dil, in the time one /might/ get 2K dil from an Endeavor. So this system only really exists to get people to go out and do stuff, just to pad Crypitcs numbers.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 6,894 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Most of the content in STO is enjoyable. Unfortunately, the game gives precious little incentive to ever play any of it.

    The queues all put out more or less the same generic currencies, most of them in amounts that are nowhere near being even in the same ballpark with the top two. Battlezones are the same.

    Episodes have their unique gear sets, but since those are guaranteed and pick-what-you-want, they are worth only 3-4 playtimes at best. If and only if you want the set for some reason in the first place (they aren't actually needed for anything).

    And then there's That One Patrol everyone likes to must grind ship XP on...well, everyone who has ships that need XP to grind.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Most of the content in STO is enjoyable. Unfortunately, the game gives precious little incentive to ever play any of it.

    The queues all put out more or less the same generic currencies, most of them in amounts that are nowhere near being even in the same ballpark with the top two. Battlezones are the same.

    Episodes have their unique gear sets, but since those are guaranteed and pick-what-you-want, they are worth only 3-4 playtimes at best. If and only if you want the set for some reason in the first place (they aren't actually needed for anything).

    And then there's That One Patrol everyone likes to must grind ship XP on...well, everyone who has ships that need XP to grind.

    The main problem with the queues is rather simple. Mot of them are dead, because why bother running more than Borg, Tholian and Tzemkethi Red Alerts for what ever mark you need.

    The choice marks are what really kills the end game here. They make all the other queues complete and utterly pointless. Sure, you can run Adv for the elite marks, to speed up getting any gear you want. But, if you're not in that big of a hurry, meh, takes 5 days to get a piece of gear by trading in 100 marks on said Elite mark.
    And CCA, maybe ISA for dil, on those days you didn't hit your refining quota on Admiralty alone. But yeah, basically this. They all give the same rewards, so there's little reason to play anything except the best.
    But, you're also right. There's no incentive to play queues, or even rerun episodes, after you have all the gear you want from it. You can ignore them, just like the endeavor system.

    Which, the endeavor system, is a waste of time for any one to bother with. It's rewards are mediocre, at best. I can make more off a Tour the Galaxy than I can in 2 or 3 of these thing, which takes up to 6 day. Tour the Galaxy I can run daily, on all my character if i choose. Some could are the occassional dilithium reward is worth it. But, again, 2000 dil? Meh, 5 contraband gets me that a day. Meaning 4k dil on one character, I have like 10, so 20K dil, in the time one /might/ get 2K dil from an Endeavor. So this system only really exists to get people to go out and do stuff, just to pad Crypitcs numbers.
    I know, right. The Endeavor system had such great potential, that they then had to completely squander by dumping in a little box of random generic currencies as the only reward. If it had anything at all that was unique and exclusive to it, even as a 1% drop, people would be jumping at the chance to do them.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    trennan wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Most of the content in STO is enjoyable. Unfortunately, the game gives precious little incentive to ever play any of it.

    The queues all put out more or less the same generic currencies, most of them in amounts that are nowhere near being even in the same ballpark with the top two. Battlezones are the same.

    Episodes have their unique gear sets, but since those are guaranteed and pick-what-you-want, they are worth only 3-4 playtimes at best. If and only if you want the set for some reason in the first place (they aren't actually needed for anything).

    And then there's That One Patrol everyone likes to must grind ship XP on...well, everyone who has ships that need XP to grind.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Most of the content in STO is enjoyable. Unfortunately, the game gives precious little incentive to ever play any of it.

    The queues all put out more or less the same generic currencies, most of them in amounts that are nowhere near being even in the same ballpark with the top two. Battlezones are the same.

    Episodes have their unique gear sets, but since those are guaranteed and pick-what-you-want, they are worth only 3-4 playtimes at best. If and only if you want the set for some reason in the first place (they aren't actually needed for anything).

    And then there's That One Patrol everyone likes to must grind ship XP on...well, everyone who has ships that need XP to grind.

    The main problem with the queues is rather simple. Mot of them are dead, because why bother running more than Borg, Tholian and Tzemkethi Red Alerts for what ever mark you need.

    The choice marks are what really kills the end game here. They make all the other queues complete and utterly pointless. Sure, you can run Adv for the elite marks, to speed up getting any gear you want. But, if you're not in that big of a hurry, meh, takes 5 days to get a piece of gear by trading in 100 marks on said Elite mark.
    And CCA, maybe ISA for dil, on those days you didn't hit your refining quota on Admiralty alone. But yeah, basically this. They all give the same rewards, so there's little reason to play anything except the best.
    But, you're also right. There's no incentive to play queues, or even rerun episodes, after you have all the gear you want from it. You can ignore them, just like the endeavor system.

    Which, the endeavor system, is a waste of time for any one to bother with. It's rewards are mediocre, at best. I can make more off a Tour the Galaxy than I can in 2 or 3 of these thing, which takes up to 6 day. Tour the Galaxy I can run daily, on all my character if i choose. Some could are the occassional dilithium reward is worth it. But, again, 2000 dil? Meh, 5 contraband gets me that a day. Meaning 4k dil on one character, I have like 10, so 20K dil, in the time one /might/ get 2K dil from an Endeavor. So this system only really exists to get people to go out and do stuff, just to pad Crypitcs numbers.
    I know, right. The Endeavor system had such great potential, that they then had to completely squander by dumping in a little box of random generic currencies as the only reward. If it had anything at all that was unique and exclusive to it, even as a 1% drop, people would be jumping at the chance to do them.

    CCA and ISA? Maybe if I'm bored. Which currently, when I'm in game, I have Risa event for. I actually don't bother that much with end game, or what people call end game, any more. No need for me to. Sure, i could level my alts reputations, but ehh, most of those are just dil farmers any how. Plus I can use the events, like Mirror Invansion, to farm what I need to there.

    As far as dill goes, as long as I get the 2K per day, plus any other from doffing or admiralty, I'm good. I've already got a back stock of over 1 million refined dil. So, this isn't even a concern any more.

    As far as gear from episodes go. There are a few good pieces out there, most of it is mediocre at best. Unless is something I'm after, the only time I rerun an episode is when there's a trait involved. Once I have those, I don't revisit said episode ever again. Aside from my Halloween mission, What Lies Beneath. Sorry, the Hearts and Minds one fails at being good for that.

    Let's look at the difference here.

    Before the introduction of the Reputation and Fleet systems, and gear all over the place. One had to work for it. Especially with the Mk X, XI, and XII trade up. Plus if you wanted any VR Mk XII gear outside of that. You were hitting episodes, running DSE's, and/or running queues like, Breaking the Planet or Starbase Blockade. This complied with the fact the Featured Episode, wasn't a "Please play this for this gear and either an upgrade token or specialization point." But a rotating series of weekly episodes, that had accolades attached to them. So you always had something to go do.

    Flash forward to present.

    Now to get geared you don't have to do much. Really, I'll list it.

    Go play that episode for that set if you want.
    Get it from a reputation, which you have to level.
    Get it from a fleet.

    And, to accomplish the last two, all you need to do is run the following:

    Borg Red Alert
    Tholian Red Alert
    Tzenkethi Red Alert

    For the extra fleet marks:
    Crystalline Catastrophe Normal or Adv.

    End game here is, maxing any new reputation they put out, while waiting for the next fleet holding to drop. Anyone that doesn't see this is either blind, or just trying to white knight. Neither of which are helpful to improving the game.

    Now, does this mean, some of it isn't enjoyable. No, as I stated, I enjoy What Lies Beneath. Other thing I've enjoyed in the game, the temple on Kobali, the Power Distribution Problem on Drozana, and Tenebris Torquent, to name a few. As far as queues go, well look to the ones that never fill. You know the ones, that have mechanics and challenges to them, even in normal.

    The problem here, other than the mediocre reward and lack of any incentive at all to do them, is rather simple. Everyone wants to get everything for doing nothing, and a great majority of the game is setup to allow that. The gamma bz actualy rewards you for doing nothing. Literally. go there, queue in, start it, and go get a drink or something, perhaps alt tab, and check back after a few minutes to get your reward. That's it. That's all you have to do for the gamma bz. Because the large reward here is based of number of participation's, not whether or not you do anything else or not.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    STOs endgame is a joke, the STFs are all easy with enemies that lack any exclusive abilities or mechanics. We need STFs that require us to do more than just mash our space bar.
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  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,426 Arc User
    Endgame...

    You mean Space Barbie?
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    bergins wrote: »
    Endgame...

    You mean Space Barbie?

    Sad, but true, and even it is screwed up. All the restrictions and clipping issues. Making the hardest challenge of this, building a custom outfit that doesn't clip to badly.
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 7,144 Arc User
    Myself I've always felt that the game really begins at level 50, mission rewards stop being utter garbage all the time (there are exceptions but most of those are newer missions now at lower spots on the level curve), access to the queues and BZ/AZs, etc. Before that I feel like I'm playing with cuffs on, or maybe say as an unconfirmed Brevet promotion of a Field Commissioned Cadet. ;)
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  • stupidconversionstupidconversion Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    I'm Mister Story Mode myself, but to catch up with the DPS Rampage you need to grind the endgame.

    I would like to have some (even less) similar rewards (marks/crafting/dil) from story and even foundry missions. BUT that would mean less population in STFs, which seems to be The Metric That Rules Them All.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    STOs endgame is a joke, the STFs are all easy with enemies that lack any exclusive abilities or mechanics. We need STFs that require us to do more than just mash our space bar.

    True, we haven't seen something like this since the old Borg Elites. Back when you needed tanks and healers. Or you built your group out of Zone chat. It's sad that these have been removed. Which, they have no excuse for any more. The problem with the one-shot has come back. So, whatever band-aid they slapped on this, finally fell off. Which is the old rendering problem, that made the borg elites to hard after fleets, and all the pewpew focused gear, came out.

    I mean, far be it from me to say this, but the old Borg Elite were fun. When I played them, sure they were hard, and the one-shot was a problem. But, we didn't complain it was such, and we did it in much weaker ships than we have now. At best here a plain old T5 from promotion, or a lockbox ship. I personally did them in a patrol escort on my tac, and the MU Recon Sci vessel on my Science officer. Both of which were setup to tank Armek.

    Yes, I've seen the one-shot problem in various different ways with ViL. For instance doing the Gamma BZ, Break the Circle, the tractor beam repulsors of the hur'q ignoring shields completely and doing direct damage to the hull of my ship. Literally, 100% shields, and down to 37% hull from this alone. I've also be hit with a one-shot in these as well.
    I'm Mister Story Mode myself, but to catch up with the DPS Rampage you need to grind the endgame.

    I would like to have some (even less) similar rewards (marks/crafting/dil) from story and even foundry missions. BUT that would mean less population in STFs, which seems to be The Metric That Rules Them All.

    You mean this would hurt the active queues, the Red Alerts and CCA. I'd say 90% of the other queues here are already dead. SO this really wouldn't hurt that. Again, this is mostly the fault of the choice mark you get from the Red Alerts.
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,436 Arc User
    dtrekkie wrote: »
    Just out of pure curiosity, does anyone enjoy the endgame content more than the episodes? For me, the episodes are my favorite part of the game by far. As a whole, I like them ten times more than the endgame content, and that may not be an exaggeration. Something about going on a story driven adventure in the Star Trek universe really really appeals to me. I genuinely feel a big rush playing some of them. That said, I don't usually like to replay them.

    The endgame grind of repeating the same STFs over and over, each time possibly with better gear does not even remotely come close to the joy I get from the episodes. For some of the queues, it can feel like being forced (not literally) to play an episode over and over. Even with my favorite episodes, I wouldn't want to play them dozens of times. That would feel like torture. I do like the battlezones a lot more because they feel more like repeatable content (hopefully that makes sense). If one agrees with me, feel free to comment too of course.

    It is posts like this that make me regret that the industry has chosen to move away from what mainstream MMOs started out as.

    I cut my MMO teeth on Ultima Online, and grew my MMO wisdom teeth with Star Wars Galaxies. These games gave us WORLDS to play in, and pretty much gave us the freedom to tell our own stories. We were not THE hero. We were one of many who were capable of doing heroic deeds if we so chose.

    In those games, endgame meant you got your character wherever it was you were aiming to go, and you settled in to being him or her in whatever circumstance arose around you in the game. For some this meant mentoring the next wave of players. For others it meant having the best stuff (most of which came from other players whose endgame was getting to the point where they could MAKE the best stuff).

    I want to relate an experience I had in Star Wars Galaxies. I was an energy resource supplier. Yeah... Something that didn't even require that I master a single profession. Just surveying and part of the merchant skill tree. I took some basic combat skills, so I could defend myself if caught in a tight spot. So one day, I go out to my cluster of Fusion-ion generators to collect the day's output. But to my dismay, a group of elite NPCs had spawned right in their midst. My basic combat training was not enough to deal with them. And I had clients needing their energy. So I checked to see if there were any elite combatants online. I found one and sent him a /tell explaining my situation. He asked for my coordinates and showed up about five minutes later. He was a master rifleman and he charged in, blowing the mobs away with ease. "More will come in a minute. Go get your stuff, I've got your back." or something close was what he said. So once I emptied the generators and paid maintenance on them, We both pulled back to a safe distance. I didn't have many credits at that moment, but offered 1/6 of my energy harvest, which he should be able to easily sell for a fair amout. He accepted. He then told me that he was a citizen of a growing settlement that had a lot of crafters in it who could use fairly priced energy. I hopped into his landspeeder and we headed out to that city and I met its mayor. Because that rifleman vouched for me, I was invited to join, given a house and a list of potential buyers. In one day I became one of that cities most valued citizens... Because after I sold all that energy I had harvested, at a price that was very affordable, I donated 10% of the profits, which was enough to more than cover the cities expenses with a large chunk left over. See, there was real purpose behind my gameplay experience that went way beyond leveling to max or having ultra rare gear and being able to do X amount of DPS. The results of my gameplay extended to an entire city of players. And that city achieved metropolis status not long after that.

    Not once have I been able to experience that kind of meaningful gameplay in STO, or any other MMO that I have played since the NGE killed SWG for me and so many others. But I would dearly love an endgame element to STO that would allow that sort of player freedom to be what we want, do what we want, and have our experiences extend beyond the scope of just our own gameplay. That is why I will continue to advocate for a new Exploration, Colonization and industrialization layer that is facilitated by an autonomous system but driving by player choices and interactions within it. The amazing thing is that all the elements that could make such a system work already exist. It's just a matter of whether or not Cryptic/PWE choose to bring them together in the correct way. With it running nothing would interfere with episodic mission releases, or whatever else they want to do. But what it would do is give the community an on-going activity which they can undertake together... or by themselves... while waiting for the next set of episodes to drop. I guarantee, that when you let players direct their own narrative and allow them ways to share unscripted activities that have far-reaching results and effects, it will be those experience they remember far better than the average theme park experience.

    So if this sort of thing is so great, why has the industry not been doing it?

    Because that game that starts with W, has an O in the middle, and ends with a word that starts with W didn't do it, and it had over 14 million people paying $14.99 per month at one time. So many MMOS were supposed to be that game's killer, but did exactly what that game did, just in a different setting, and all ended up being mediocre at best. Being everything but a sandbox has been what MMOs have been doing for more than a decade. And interestingly enough, STO, due to the nature of the way its mechanics work, is in a position to actually be both a theme park and a sandbox. The former could and should be used to advance our characters, and the latter could and should exist for what we do at endgame. When we have maxed our levels and obtained the best gear.

    As it is, endgame is like being a hamster in a wheel... running and running and running but getting nowhere. Add a true sandbox layer and you let the hamster out of the cage and give him full reign of the house... If I were a hamster, I would want that...
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  • dtrekkiedtrekkie Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    dtrekkie wrote: »
    Just out of pure curiosity, does anyone enjoy the endgame content more than the episodes? For me, the episodes are my favorite part of the game by far. As a whole, I like them ten times more than the endgame content, and that may not be an exaggeration. Something about going on a story driven adventure in the Star Trek universe really really appeals to me. I genuinely feel a big rush playing some of them. That said, I don't usually like to replay them.

    The endgame grind of repeating the same STFs over and over, each time possibly with better gear does not even remotely come close to the joy I get from the episodes. For some of the queues, it can feel like being forced (not literally) to play an episode over and over. Even with my favorite episodes, I wouldn't want to play them dozens of times. That would feel like torture. I do like the battlezones a lot more because they feel more like repeatable content (hopefully that makes sense). If one agrees with me, feel free to comment too of course.

    It is posts like this that make me regret that the industry has chosen to move away from what mainstream MMOs started out as.

    I cut my MMO teeth on Ultima Online, and grew my MMO wisdom teeth with Star Wars Galaxies. These games gave us WORLDS to play in, and pretty much gave us the freedom to tell our own stories. We were not THE hero. We were one of many who were capable of doing heroic deeds if we so chose.

    In those games, endgame meant you got your character wherever it was you were aiming to go, and you settled in to being him or her in whatever circumstance arose around you in the game. For some this meant mentoring the next wave of players. For others it meant having the best stuff (most of which came from other players whose endgame was getting to the point where they could MAKE the best stuff).

    I want to relate an experience I had in Star Wars Galaxies. I was an energy resource supplier. Yeah... Something that didn't even require that I master a single profession. Just surveying and part of the merchant skill tree. I took some basic combat skills, so I could defend myself if caught in a tight spot. So one day, I go out to my cluster of Fusion-ion generators to collect the day's output. But to my dismay, a group of elite NPCs had spawned right in their midst. My basic combat training was not enough to deal with them. And I had clients needing their energy. So I checked to see if there were any elite combatants online. I found one and sent him a /tell explaining my situation. He asked for my coordinates and showed up about five minutes later. He was a master rifleman and he charged in, blowing the mobs away with ease. "More will come in a minute. Go get your stuff, I've got your back." or something close was what he said. So once I emptied the generators and paid maintenance on them, We both pulled back to a safe distance. I didn't have many credits at that moment, but offered 1/6 of my energy harvest, which he should be able to easily sell for a fair amout. He accepted. He then told me that he was a citizen of a growing settlement that had a lot of crafters in it who could use fairly priced energy. I hopped into his landspeeder and we headed out to that city and I met its mayor. Because that rifleman vouched for me, I was invited to join, given a house and a list of potential buyers. In one day I became one of that cities most valued citizens... Because after I sold all that energy I had harvested, at a price that was very affordable, I donated 10% of the profits, which was enough to more than cover the cities expenses with a large chunk left over. See, there was real purpose behind my gameplay experience that went way beyond leveling to max or having ultra rare gear and being able to do X amount of DPS. The results of my gameplay extended to an entire city of players. And that city achieved metropolis status not long after that.

    Not once have I been able to experience that kind of meaningful gameplay in STO, or any other MMO that I have played since the NGE killed SWG for me and so many others. But I would dearly love an endgame element to STO that would allow that sort of player freedom to be what we want, do what we want, and have our experiences extend beyond the scope of just our own gameplay. That is why I will continue to advocate for a new Exploration, Colonization and industrialization layer that is facilitated by an autonomous system but driving by player choices and interactions within it. The amazing thing is that all the elements that could make such a system work already exist. It's just a matter of whether or not Cryptic/PWE choose to bring them together in the correct way. With it running nothing would interfere with episodic mission releases, or whatever else they want to do. But what it would do is give the community an on-going activity which they can undertake together... or by themselves... while waiting for the next set of episodes to drop. I guarantee, that when you let players direct their own narrative and allow them ways to share unscripted activities that have far-reaching results and effects, it will be those experience they remember far better than the average theme park experience.

    So if this sort of thing is so great, why has the industry not been doing it?

    Because that game that starts with W, has an O in the middle, and ends with a word that starts with W didn't do it, and it had over 14 million people paying $14.99 per month at one time. So many MMOS were supposed to be that game's killer, but did exactly what that game did, just in a different setting, and all ended up being mediocre at best. Being everything but a sandbox has been what MMOs have been doing for more than a decade. And interestingly enough, STO, due to the nature of the way its mechanics work, is in a position to actually be both a theme park and a sandbox. The former could and should be used to advance our characters, and the latter could and should exist for what we do at endgame. When we have maxed our levels and obtained the best gear.

    As it is, endgame is like being a hamster in a wheel... running and running and running but getting nowhere. Add a true sandbox layer and you let the hamster out of the cage and give him full reign of the house... If I were a hamster, I would want that...

    Hmmm, the idea of a sandbox endgame really really appeals to me, so in that regard I agree.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 6,894 Arc User
    I would like to have some (even less) similar rewards (marks/crafting/dil) from story and even foundry missions. BUT that would mean less population in STFs, which seems to be The Metric That Rules Them All.
    I would like to see some different rewards for a change. Everything having the same rewards is the worst problem this game has.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    I would like to have some (even less) similar rewards (marks/crafting/dil) from story and even foundry missions. BUT that would mean less population in STFs, which seems to be The Metric That Rules Them All.
    I would like to see some different rewards for a change. Everything having the same rewards is the worst problem this game has.

    It's one of the things we've asked for over the years, unique drops. Use to be able to get something like this pre-LoR and reputations. Use to be ale to get PvP gear as a drop. Use to have to try you luck at the Borg Elites in the hope of the MACO helmet dropping.

    This could be done with outfit pieces, like Leeta's Belt, or Armek's Arm.

    But this will never happen. All we'll ever get here is a new reputation, another mark, and another choice in marks in the Red alerts.

    When it comes to things like this. Just set you expectation bar down near to "never." Because that's when Cryptic will go this route.
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  • noemiecarnesirnoemiecarnesir Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Usually I run daily, with my toons; assignments, admiralty and I do Crystalin Catastrophe Advanced.
    It take me already like 5-6 hours daily. It's enough time passed on an MMO, for me.

    All in only purpose to get more Dilithium. I am almost done with all reputations and episodes rewards, on all my characters. So I don't care about that.

    I prefere gather Dilithium from queued PvE, because I prefer play with people more than alone and also because they are more rewarding for the time passed.
    I like the roleplay also, so episodes are interesting to run in coop but, the roleplay ing not suit greatly the farming (not all case in fact).

    Something boring and need to be fixed is the unbalancing between queued.
    For example alerts give in 5 min as much Lukari reputation than the advanced mission Gravity Kill witch one it's only for get Lukari reputation.
    But did you done this queued? I did it 2-3 times for test it and every time it was catastophic. We not succeed at any optional objectives, but also die and die all the time, complete this mission took about 2 hours.
    So, yes we were not opti and we surely took objectives from the wrong way. But it's extreme here.

    Also I am agree about add more sandbox for the endgame. It would be great!
  • kronin#4685 kronin Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    For me, the game is all about the episodes. There is fun to be had elsewhere in STO, but it is second prize. I love expansions that drop a bunch of missions at once.
    @sirsitsalot I was tempted to skip (or skim) your post because of it's length, but I'm glad I read the whole thing. You are seriously on to something, here. I love your story of the energy harvester and the rifleman. I wish we could do things like that here. It would give me a reason to get the endgame gear, as apposed to getting it just to have it. And don't even get me started about the concept of needing the endgame gear in order to complete the missions that will be finished once you've unlocked said gear.
  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,058 Bug Hunter
    edited July 14
    Something boring and need to be fixed is the unbalancing between queued.

    TBH they need to add the "daily random queue" for choice of marks and dil. This works in NW.
    And with that they can add "daily random episode", too.
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  • kronin#4685 kronin Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    bernatk wrote: »
    Something boring and need to be fixed is the unbalancing between queued.

    TBH they need to add the "daily random queue" for choice of marks and dil. This works in NW.
    And with that they can add "daily random episode", too.
    +1, awesome idea. I would hate to see choice of marks go away, but to add it to a different queue each day would definitely get me to play every queue in the game. I mean, I might want to play every queue in the game anyway, but this would motivate everyone to jump on board. I think it would also solve the problem of empty, unpopular queues.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 6,894 Arc User
    I would love to see choice of marks go away.

    A daily featured queue would be nice, but should reward something new and interesting not yet another load of same old, same old.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 5,950 Arc User
    While story missions and queues are fun, I'll be honest here,,,space barbie is really is the best aspect of this game. So yeah I prefer endgame over anything else.
  • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    Playing NEW episodes the first time is my favorite thing in the game. Replays .... not so much. I’d much rather PVP, hunt accolades, or do the summer/winter events then go through the stories again and again. But I’ve done them all a dozen times so I might not be a good test subject.
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 2,277 Arc User
    edited July 17
    They both equally "meh" IMO. There is virtually NO endgame since PvP is dead, foundry is boring and PvE queues often empty. The feature episodes are just re-run of same stuff for weeks to get you impressed by new shinnies. Either way forum posting is the end game of STO tiger-2.gif​​
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  • thecylusthecylus Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    dtrekkie wrote: »
    Just out of pure curiosity, does anyone enjoy the endgame content more than the episodes?
    I prefer the endgame content, because it's PvP! Episodes and STFs are just to get the equipment you need for the endgame.

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