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Challengers to the Resolute for Most Hated Ship prize?

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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    First of all, spot on with everything you said. This is the only part I would disagree with.

    The only reason to buy the Resolute is because you like the Excelsior and want to fly one (personally, I love the Excelsior) but just going straight for the fleet ship is pretty much always a bad idea. You're going to spend the same amount in Fleet Modules and you're only going to unlock it for one character. Buying the C-Store version means you can get the Fleet ship account wide for 1 fleet module, other alts that aren't going to actually fly it can claim it for the admiralty card.
    5 Fleet modules cost 2500 Zen. The Resolute and a Fleet module is 3500 Zen.

    If I understand @azreal605 :
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Except of course the reduction in price from 5 FSMs to 1 FSM for the FAHC T6. I mean I've skipped straight to Fleet versions before, but I get FSMs with EC, but think about it, Fleet T6 is 5 FSMs without the zen ship, if your only getting one ship for one character then just jumping to fleet version is cheaper, but every character you want the ship on adds 2500 zen or around 80 to 100 million EC, it also absolutely requires being in a fleet that has advanced enough to unlock the ship.
    If you want the Fleet Excelsior [T6] on two (or more) characters then it makes sense to buy the the Resolute then buy one additional fleet module per character. So, instead of paying 5000 Zen for 10 modules for two characters, you buy the Resolute and 2 modules for 4000 Zen.

    If you are spending 3000 Zen for an admirality card, then you are not buying the Resolute to fly, so my point stands. "Skip the Resolute and go for the Fleet version".

    Not having access to the Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser [T6] does not invalidate the fact that it is better than the Resolute. You are in the same position as someone who wants to use the Oberth in end-game content. You don't have access to a Fleet version, so you make do with what you have. The Resolute probably has better performance than the Oberth in most end game content, though the Oberth does have the better console.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 1,037 Arc User
    I strongly dislike the Presidio and I don't think I'm alone in that.

    The trait is among the most useful ones imo, but the ship itself is just horrible - especially because I want the trait on all characters, even though the ship is obviously not suited to be used with certain builds. Certainly not if you don't have good gear - which is usually the case shortly after reaching level 50 when I start collecting the traits.
    TgLi8nJ.jpg


    @party popper: thank you - carefully, you craft uncanny representations of actual Lukari ships (so small yet so real) so that I may shoot them annoyingly in the face of my main rival (in his faaacceee)

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  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    I don't think anyone hates it (outside of the weirdo's who think the Excelsior looks ugly).

    Well, it's certainly not the Ent-J, but it's definitely up there on the Ugh list alongside the Miracle-Worker manatees. :|

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,173 Arc User
    edited July 1
    redvenge wrote: »
    Not having access to the Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser [T6] does not invalidate the fact that it is better than the Resolute.
    The Fleet version of every ship (that has a Fleet version) is better than the C-Store version. Because the Fleet version is literally the exact same ship with +1 console and some extra HP.

    If we say, "ship X is bad because the Fleet version is better," then all ships with Fleet versions are bad.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The Fleet version of every ship (that has a Fleet version) is better than the C-Store version. Because the Fleet version is literally the exact same ship with +1 console and some extra HP.

    If we say, "ship X is bad because the Fleet version is better," then all ships with Fleet versions are bad.
    If you snip the REASONS for skipping the Resolute, then yes, it sounds redundant.

    The only reason to get the non-Fleet version of any ship, is for the console and/or trait (or it is one of the "special" ships that does not have a Fleet version). The Resolute has a poorly designed trait and a terrible console. The console set bonus is sub-par since the bonus does not overcome the innate terrible-ness of the Transwarp Computer. Additionally, the BOff layout of the Resolute is so restrictive, that it needs all the flexibility it can get; ie that extra console slot.

    The only reason to get the Resolute is to get a discount if you want the Fleet version on two characters. I guess if you somehow have a shortage of Engineering admirality cards, you can spend 3000 Zen for another card. Neither of these reasons is ACTUALLY PILOTING THE RESOLUTE.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,173 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The Fleet version of every ship (that has a Fleet version) is better than the C-Store version. Because the Fleet version is literally the exact same ship with +1 console and some extra HP.

    If we say, "ship X is bad because the Fleet version is better," then all ships with Fleet versions are bad.
    If you snip the REASONS for skipping the Resolute, then yes, it sounds redundant.

    The only reason to get the non-Fleet version of any ship, is for the console and/or trait (or it is one of the "special" ships that does not have a Fleet version). The Resolute has a poorly designed trait and a terrible console. The console set bonus is sub-par since the bonus does not overcome the innate terrible-ness of the Transwarp Computer. Additionally, the BOff layout of the Resolute is so restrictive, that it needs all the flexibility it can get; ie that extra console slot.

    The only reason to get the Resolute is to get a discount if you want the Fleet version on two characters. I guess if you somehow have a shortage of Engineering admirality cards, you can spend 3000 Zen for another card. Neither of these reasons is ACTUALLY PILOTING THE RESOLUTE.
    Meh, the game is so effin easy no ship particularly needs anything at all. If I'm skipping something it will be the Fleet versions, every single time, just because the C-Store ones are account unlock. If nothing else, that means I don't have to waste a drydock slot when I want to get another ship, which is worth a lot more to me than an extra console slot.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 43,573 Arc User
    I don't have the Resolute, but the BOff layout is, like her T5 counterpart, a bit heavy on the Engie side. Makes it difficult to have a more balanced approach to things. Now it IS workable, especially if you have access to a BOff ability from the winter event to keep from doubling up on things, but it isn't optimal for most builds. She'll work, but not be particularly spectacular.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 11,441 Arc User
    To be honest, what is the criteria for this thread? Because overlooking performance for one moment, I - personally - LOATHE the Scimitar. I've hated it since Nemesis and I hate it now; it's a stupid design that looks like someone took a bored fanboy sketch seriously. "Oh oh - lets give it 52 cannons, 27 torpedo launchers and a perfect cloak! And make it HUGE because otherwise the dummies watching the movie won't know that it's a bad-guy ship!.
    Come on! Its a fanboy fantasy that (sadly) actually happened.

    And in terms of the STO version(s), regardless of how OP it can be, I refuse to buy/fly one out of principle.
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 3,251 Arc User
    I don't truly hate any ship. Do I like some ships better than I like other ships? Yes.

    But I look at all the ships as having their own personalities, not always based on looks.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 7,587 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > To be honest, what is the criteria for this thread? Because overlooking performance for one moment, I - personally - LOATHE the Scimitar. I've hated it since Nemesis and I hate it now; it's a stupid design that looks like someone took a bored fanboy sketch seriously. "Oh oh - lets give it 52 cannons, 27 torpedo launchers and a perfect cloak! And make it HUGE because otherwise the dummies watching the movie won't know that it's a bad-guy ship!.
    > Come on! Its a fanboy fantasy that (sadly) actually happened.
    >
    > And in terms of the STO version(s), regardless of how OP it can be, I refuse to buy/fly one out of principle.

    QFT
    #TASinSTO

    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 2,650 Arc User
    I strongly dislike the Presidio and I don't think I'm alone in that.
    The Presidio is actually really good for a 4/4 cruiser. It has a very good boff layout although it has about the bare minimum turn rate I'd tolerate for a broadside build. It already comes at fleet level and it has a good trait. It beats the hell out of the worthless Resolute, below average T6 Galaxy, and barely below average T6 Galaxy-X. It's better than the Guardian and Eclipse IMO and probably several other 4/4 Fed cruisers. Is it as good as the Arbiter (5/3 so not a fair comparison) or Tac T6 Odyssey? No but it's still really good.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,775 Arc User
    Mogai. The first one avaliable not the higher tier ones. Turns like a rock.
    Another faction is more than likely to be destructive to the game rather than helping. this game doesn't even have 3 healthy factions, it has one healthy faction, one neglected faction, and one neglected HALF faction.

    For the love of tribble kebab, NO MORE FACTIONS until they can support what we ALREADY HAVE.
    Characters:

    Captain Klein of the U.S.S. Yggdrasil (Liza)
    Captain Eon of the U.S.S. Heinlein (Sylvi)
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,309 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    Mogai. The first one avaliable not the higher tier ones. Turns like a rock.

    If you think the mogai turns like a rock...what the hell do you fly?!? BoP only? Because those would be the only things that don't turn like a brick by comparison. Even run of the mill escorts turn similarly to the mogai.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 1,739 Arc User
    edited July 2
    I have a Presidio and I can enjoy it sometimes, but I wouldn't put it in front of the Eclipse in its fleet grade.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 5,999 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    Mogai. The first one avaliable not the higher tier ones. Turns like a rock.

    Well, since they all have the same turn rate from T3-T6, this statement is pretty much nonsense.

    All of the Mogai variants have a turn rate of 14. Not sure what ship you're flying.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 11,441 Arc User
    Returning to the Resolute, I can't help but wonder if the fact that it's a bit underwhelming is a by-product of the many, many years that the T5 Excelsior was superior to the T5 Galaxy (which, to be honest, didn't really make any sense).
    Little wonder that the Galaxy received slightly more favourable treatement at T6 with that in mind.

    Also think it's quite sad how far behind her 'contemporaries' she is (by which I mean 23rd century ship designs) - the Temporal Light Cruiser is (arguably) one of the best ships in the game, and the T6 Advanced Light Cruiser received more favourable treatment too.
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    The current worst T6 ship in the game is actually the Samsar. People don't really have much bad to say about it cuz it was free, or they don't have it, but it's actually REALLY bad, especially after S13:

    Consider:

    1. Lack of any LtC Tac access means that in order to slot your basic attack pattern + FAW combo, you're down to FAW1 as you have only Lt+Ens Tac. This means you can choose between doing no damage because you have no attack pattern and can't hit **** because non-3 FAW is even more terribad, or having an attack pattern, but still can't do any damage because of the massive penalty to from FAW1. And you still can't hit ****.

    2. Very limited Tac seating leaves no room to cram the usual FAW/APB/Kemocide/TT.

    3. LtC-Sci only doesn't make you a science ship, either.

    Really, is there anything this ship does RIGHT? This is probably the worst T6 ship in the game. Even the Excelsior doesn't come close, since the Excelsior is merely subpar, but still functional. The Samsar has everything you could possibly do wrong in one ship at the same time.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 5,999 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The current worst T6 ship in the game is actually the Samsar. People don't really have much bad to say about it cuz it was free, or they don't have it, but it's actually REALLY bad, especially after S13:

    Consider:

    1. Lack of any LtC Tac access means that in order to slot your basic attack pattern + FAW combo, you're down to FAW1 as you have only Lt+Ens Tac. This means you can choose between doing no damage because you have no attack pattern and can't hit **** because non-3 FAW is even more terribad, or having an attack pattern, but still can't do any damage because of the massive penalty to from FAW1. And you still can't hit ****.

    2. Very limited Tac seating leaves no room to cram the usual FAW/APB/Kemocide/TT.

    3. LtC-Sci only doesn't make you a science ship, either.

    Really, is there anything this ship does RIGHT? This is probably the worst T6 ship in the game. Even the Excelsior doesn't come close, since the Excelsior is merely subpar, but still functional. The Samsar has everything you could possibly do wrong in one ship at the same time.

    Fair points, the Samsar is objectively worse then the Resolute.

    I think the reason it gets a pass is the exact reason you said.. because it was free. It also, at one time, had a console that was considered very good. Not so much anymore, it kind of kept the ship from coming under fire post release.

    That being said.. if I was doing a build and my choices were the Samsar or the Resolute, I would absolutely pick the Resolute. I could easily turn that into a very serviceable A2B Beam Boat, same can't be said for the Samsar.
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  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 1,739 Arc User
    Yeah, I don't like engi heavy ships.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 2,650 Arc User
    edited July 2
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Returning to the Resolute, I can't help but wonder if the fact that it's a bit underwhelming is a by-product of the many, many years that the T5 Excelsior was superior to the T5 Galaxy (which, to be honest, didn't really make any sense).
    Little wonder that the Galaxy received slightly more favourable treatement at T6 with that in mind.
    They seem to have had their boff stations swapped from T5 to T6 which is "fair" in a way. It would be fair to have the T6 Galaxy better but also nice to not have an almost useless T6 Excelsior. But hey, at least it isn't the Samsar.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Also think it's quite sad how far behind her 'contemporaries' she is (by which I mean 23rd century ship designs) - the Temporal Light Cruiser is (arguably) one of the best ships in the game, and the T6 Advanced Light Cruiser received more favourable treatment too.
    This is why I hold out the impossible hope that we'll have a promo version of an Excelsior one day. Call it a "Temporal Excelsior. A proper version that's better than the Constitution with a good boff layout and a nice clean looking new model and skin.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 1,228 Community Moderator
    For me a ship I really have never had any love for would be the Tal Shiar Adapted ships. Just can't make myself fly them.

    If folks are going to compare the Resolute and a t5 Excelsior then to compare a cstore version to a fleet version does both ships a disservice as you over estimate the power of one ship and under-estimate the other. By nature the fleet ship is going to have an additional console slot vs the non-fleet version and will always have higher stats than the non-fleet version. So if you're trying to say that the t5u excelsior has more stats and consoles than the t6 cstore version of the resolute, then you are correct that it does, which will be the same with 99% of all cstore t6 ships and their fleet t5u counterparts. If you want a fair comparison then you need to compare the fleet t6 to the fleet t5u, in which case the t6 is going to have the slight edge. Fleet ships are naturally given more stats and console slots than the non-fleet versions. The same thing will be true if years down the road they release a higher tier of ship.

    Not every ship is meant to work for every type of build style. Personally I'm not much of a science guy so aside from the Nebula class, I don't typically do much with my sci ships. I tend to fly heavier cruiser or dreadnought type ships because I typically fly as a tank. For me the Resolute gives a nice engineering base to draw from and command powers as well. For me I rather enjoy the ship. Someone who likes more tac heavy ships however probably won't. Far as to what ship is "best" depends on what one likes to fly and also what they want to do in game. So what is best for me may not be what is best for someone else. Usually for me, give me 4 eng powers, 3 tac, and at least 2 sci and I'm happy with what's beyond that.

    As for the Samsar comparison, people forget that the Samsar itself was one of the first if not the first command ships we had access to in game. Command was never meant to be the huge damage dealer although it can have Concentrate Firepower if you're a torpedo fan. The Samsar itself is designed with survival in mind as it gives access to 2 of the most potent tank items in game, the Kobali Warp core, and the Regenerative Integrity Field, all of which can be used on other ships. So even if you're not a fan of the ship itself, those 2 items alone are very potent options if you want/need survival in the build. That's why I recommend anyone new coming into the game that likes to tank to pick up the Samsar if but for no other reason than those 2 items.

    Overall I don't think this original posts asks the right question as its too generic in nature. I don't think there is a universally single most hated ship. I do however believe there are some ships that get a bad rep for not catering to a more DPS oriented style than people like.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,775 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    Mogai. The first one avaliable not the higher tier ones. Turns like a rock.

    If you think the mogai turns like a rock...what the hell do you fly?!? BoP only? Because those would be the only things that don't turn like a brick by comparison. Even run of the mill escorts turn similarly to the mogai.

    It turns like a large cruiser is what I mean. Putting cannons on the low tier mogai is futile. I've flown space whales with better turn.
    Another faction is more than likely to be destructive to the game rather than helping. this game doesn't even have 3 healthy factions, it has one healthy faction, one neglected faction, and one neglected HALF faction.

    For the love of tribble kebab, NO MORE FACTIONS until they can support what we ALREADY HAVE.
    Characters:

    Captain Klein of the U.S.S. Yggdrasil (Liza)
    Captain Eon of the U.S.S. Heinlein (Sylvi)
    Riov t'Velle, Commander of the R.R.W. Legend (Ryna)
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 11,441 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Returning to the Resolute, I can't help but wonder if the fact that it's a bit underwhelming is a by-product of the many, many years that the T5 Excelsior was superior to the T5 Galaxy (which, to be honest, didn't really make any sense).
    Little wonder that the Galaxy received slightly more favourable treatement at T6 with that in mind.
    They seem to have had their boff stations swapped from T5 to T6 which is "fair" in a way. It would be fair to have the T6 Galaxy better but also nice to not have an almost useless T6 Excelsior. But hey, at least it isn't the Samsar.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Also think it's quite sad how far behind her 'contemporaries' she is (by which I mean 23rd century ship designs) - the Temporal Light Cruiser is (arguably) one of the best ships in the game, and the T6 Advanced Light Cruiser received more favourable treatment too.
    This is why I hold out the impossible hope that we'll have a promo version of an Excelsior one day. Call it a "Temporal Excelsior. A proper version that's better than the Constitution with a good boff layout and a nice clean looking new model and skin.

    I wouldn't say 'impossible' - evidence tends to suggest that a ship quality pass is more likely (though not a given) if it fits a story and Trek character voice work is involved. We've seen, in the past, that an actor voicing a character with a link to a particular ship often leads to the ship in question receiving quality attention.
    Therefore I suspect that if they were to ever secure voice work from Mr Takei the chances of a remodelled Excelsior would increase quite dramatically.
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 5,999 Arc User
    edited July 2
    gradii wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    Mogai. The first one avaliable not the higher tier ones. Turns like a rock.

    If you think the mogai turns like a rock...what the hell do you fly?!? BoP only? Because those would be the only things that don't turn like a brick by comparison. Even run of the mill escorts turn similarly to the mogai.

    It turns like a large cruiser is what I mean. Putting cannons on the low tier mogai is futile. I've flown space whales with better turn.

    Again, all Mogai variants have a turn rate of 14.

    There is no 'low tier' Mogai with a worse turn rate, the T3 has the same turn rate as the T6. They all handle far better then any cruiser.
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 3,251 Arc User
    edited July 2
    I agree with seaofsorrows, the mogai turns much better than it's given credit for. I don't know of any cruiser with a turn rate of 14.

    In fact, taking a look at the table of cruisers on the wiki, the largest turn rate for cruisers is 11.5, still significantly lower than the Mogai.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,173 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    Mogai. The first one avaliable not the higher tier ones. Turns like a rock.

    If you think the mogai turns like a rock...what the hell do you fly?!? BoP only? Because those would be the only things that don't turn like a brick by comparison. Even run of the mill escorts turn similarly to the mogai.

    It turns like a large cruiser is what I mean. Putting cannons on the low tier mogai is futile. I've flown space whales with better turn.

    Again, all Mogai variants have a turn rate of 14.

    There is no 'low tier' Mogai with a worse turn rate, the T3 has the same turn rate as the T6. They all handle far better then any cruiser.
    So much better that I'd fly the T3 Mogai over the T4 D'deridex every time. And have actually done so when leveling my first rom back in '13.
  • ruinthefunruinthefun Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't like engi heavy ships.
    It's not necessary Eng-heavy that makes a ship bad...it's being Tac-light that makes it BAD. Any Non-Science ship that doesn't have LtC Tac access is garbage, period. Sci-Cruisers, in particular, tread dangerous territory because being a Sci-leaning cruiser that short-changes its Tac for it drops it into this pit of despair. If you give an LtC Sci to a Cdr Eng ship, then it pretty much must have LtC Tac (Or Fake Choice Uni, which must necessarily be Tac to make the ship functional). Otherwise it can't do anything. Ships that fall into this pit trap include, of course, the Samsar, and the SCBC. Nobody much talks about the SCBC, either, as it is treated as just a trait wrapper or an ASScard, but it's the next worst item on the list.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 7,587 Arc User
    > @avoozuul said:
    > Yeah, I don't like engi heavy ships.

    I dislike non-engi heavy ships.
    #TASinSTO

    Bring on Discovery season 2 and Age of Discovery.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 43,573 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    Really, is there anything this ship does RIGHT? This is probably the worst T6 ship in the game. Even the Excelsior doesn't come close, since the Excelsior is merely subpar, but still functional. The Samsar has everything you could possibly do wrong in one ship at the same time.

    I don't know... there is one thing she can do right. Be a Zombie Cruiser. She may not dish it out but you can put a ridiculous number of heals on her.
    Funny thing is... it was the Samsar that got me 1st place in Crystalline one time on my main. And it wasn't her DPS that got it for me. It was the HEALS.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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