Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
This isn't true at all. 10K is functionally indistinguishable from AFK. Just try to do even ISA with only 10K. You will fail. Just by the numbers alone, with somewhere around 50M HP that have to be blasted off within 15 minutes, you're looking at a minimum of 35K. Otherwise you may as well be AFK, since you're entirely reliant on someone else to carry you through it. And that's easymode content. You just won't cut it endgame that way. Something like HSE pushes into the range of 200K+ needed.
Then you should be happy to know that I don't do queues like that. What I do, my ships get me through it at less than 20k. You DPS-chasers continue to chase it if you want and I'll do my thing. Just stop with the disrespect.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
This isn't true at all. 10K is functionally indistinguishable from AFK. Just try to do even ISA with only 10K. You will fail. Just by the numbers alone, with somewhere around 50M HP that have to be blasted off within 15 minutes, you're looking at a minimum of 35K. Otherwise you may as well be AFK, since you're entirely reliant on someone else to carry you through it. And that's easymode content. You just won't cut it endgame that way. Something like HSE pushes into the range of 200K+ needed.
Then you should be happy to know that I don't do queues like that. What I do, my ships get me through it at less than 20k. You DPS-chasers continue to chase it if you want and I'll do my thing. Just stop with the disrespect.
You are the one showing disrespect you did it to me earlier and you are doing it to ruinthefun now . Just because someone correctly says there is a minimum DPS level to do end game content you don't need to go around bringing up disrespectful comments like "DPS-chasers".
Just because someone makes sure they have enough DPS to pass the mission it doesn't mean they are a DPS chaser.
Everyone just needs to calm down. Have a Chiclet®. There's no need for all that.
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It's the people attempting to push DPS to 1m who I refer to has DPS-chasers, because they are. Making sure one has enough to pass a mission is not DPS-chasing, because one does not need a minimum of 100k to pass a mission.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
It's the people attempting to push DPS to 1m who I refer to has DPS-chasers, because they are. Making sure one has enough to pass a mission is not DPS-chasing, because one does not need a minimum of 100k to pass a mission.
If you are playing end game content I believe it works out as an average over the entire team of around 175k DPS to pass the mission (depending on mission, some are lower, some higher). Sometimes more to get all extra optionals. In those missions if you end up with team mates doing 20k or less you need to do 100k to bring up to the minimum level to pass the mission. 100k is not DPS chasing it can be what you need to pull off a mission pass in a weak team. That's why a lot of people aim for 100k as they know if they take less there is a chance the mission will fail at end game. Most of the time around 40k to 50k is all you need as long as everyone in the team does that much at end game.
Speaking generally not all missions have that high requirement.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
This isn't true at all. 10K is functionally indistinguishable from AFK. Just try to do even ISA with only 10K. You will fail. Just by the numbers alone, with somewhere around 50M HP that have to be blasted off within 15 minutes, you're looking at a minimum of 35K. Otherwise you may as well be AFK, since you're entirely reliant on someone else to carry you through it. And that's easymode content. You just won't cut it endgame that way. Something like HSE pushes into the range of 200K+ needed
10K functionally AFK? You must be really reliant on DPS. This use to roughly be the maximum output on DPS, during the old days of the Borg Elites. And won't complete it if that's so? Bah, tell that to my two characters that both have the achievements from back then. So you're completely wrong there. The old Borg queues actually have this thing called tactics as a part of it. If you're team knows the tactics and what to do. You can complete these in less that 15 minutes, and make the optional as well.
But, this was pre-ViL. The new level 65 part might change this, as I haven't actually tested it. But the old tactics do still work here. Not that I plan to either. I seldom run these, as it is.
With that being said, I do not parse my damage, never have. So, I have no clue what it is. Does this mean I haven't equipped my ship? No. It only means I'm not the same cardboard cutout as most every other meta player. But then, I also don't do Elites. There is no point in them. I can get everything I need in Advanced. If there was a special gear drop or something one could obtain from doing said Elites, then yeah, I'd do them. And an accolade, bah, I gave up caring about those, about the same time that Cryptic broke them. Right now, the Elites have no reason to exist at all. And with the Elites having no reason to exist. Your "end game" argument there, becomes invalid.
Note: "End game", is in quotation marks, because I realize, this is an MMO. So, there is no true end game, unless they announce that the server is being shut down. Until then, we're at an intermission point, waiting on new content. Which also serves to make the "End game" argument invalid.
Edit: Minor spelling errors and to forgot to add.
As with all MMO's, the Normal content, i.e. Normal queues, are the "end game" content. As it is designed so that everyone has a chance to complete it. The reason why the the harder modes exist. Is to give those that eventually find the "end game" content to easy and need something to do.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
This isn't true at all. 10K is functionally indistinguishable from AFK. Just try to do even ISA with only 10K. You will fail. Just by the numbers alone, with somewhere around 50M HP that have to be blasted off within 15 minutes, you're looking at a minimum of 35K. Otherwise you may as well be AFK, since you're entirely reliant on someone else to carry you through it. And that's easymode content. You just won't cut it endgame that way. Something like HSE pushes into the range of 200K+ needed
10K functionally AFK? You must be really reliant on DPS. This use to roughly be the maximum output on DPS, during the old days of the Borg Elites. And won't complete it if that's so? Bah, tell that to my two characters that both have the achievements from back then. So you're completely wrong there.
Nah, he isn't. 10K is functionally AFK. Even 20k. In fact, it's pretty hard to do 20k (and not more). I remember having completed an Endeavor, saying 'Do 20,000 Tetryon damage,' whilst I had no Tetryon weapons loaded at all. Turns out it was solely from the Nukara Tetryon Cascade thingy. LOL.
Seriously. I'll never be able to do 200k; not even close. But 10k?! Then you might, indeed, as well be AFK. And get the penalty for it, AFAIC.
Most of my builds average around 10-15k DPS and I haven't had a problem so far. And I'm also doing that in PUG runs of ISA. Infected is still pretty much the same. So no. I disagree that 10k may as well be AFK. Yea I've had a couple bad runs, but I haven't had to abandon a run for a LONG time.
10k is still pretty much the baseline for the average player. The goal posts haven't moved much, if at all.
Where DPS fails, Tactics can make up for it. Have someone with a Gravity Well? Take advantage of it!
I do have issues with people dropping Grav Wells on the Transformers and DRAWING the nanite spheres in because "Grav Well does damage too".
The only thing I can think of where ridiculous DPS is absolutely required, is the last part of Korfez. But I have a feeling that its just outright broken rather than a lack of damage output. Even with THREE, count 'em, THREE Megawell builds and some SERIOUS Science capability (shield pen style) my fleet has been UNABLE to knock the Boss Ship down past 80%. AT ALL! And we used to be able to wreck that ship no problem. Now its like its dang near immune to EVERYTHING. And we can't even shoot down the warheads because its pretty much constant miss, and any shots that do hit are shrugged off by the warheads as if it was just a turret hit and not a full Alpha Strike.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
This isn't true at all. 10K is functionally indistinguishable from AFK. Just try to do even ISA with only 10K. You will fail. Just by the numbers alone, with somewhere around 50M HP that have to be blasted off within 15 minutes, you're looking at a minimum of 35K. Otherwise you may as well be AFK, since you're entirely reliant on someone else to carry you through it. And that's easymode content. You just won't cut it endgame that way. Something like HSE pushes into the range of 200K+ needed
10K functionally AFK? You must be really reliant on DPS. This use to roughly be the maximum output on DPS, during the old days of the Borg Elites. And won't complete it if that's so? Bah, tell that to my two characters that both have the achievements from back then. So you're completely wrong there.
Nah, he isn't. 10K is functionally AFK. Even 20k. In fact, it's pretty hard to do 20k (and not more). I remember having completed an Endeavor, saying 'Do 20,000 Tetryon damage,' whilst I had no Tetryon weapons loaded at all. Turns out it was solely from the Nukara Tetryon Cascade thingy. LOL.
Seriously. I'll never be able to do 200k; not even close. But 10k?! Then you might, indeed, as well be AFK. And get the penalty for it, AFAIC.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
This isn't true at all. 10K is functionally indistinguishable from AFK. Just try to do even ISA with only 10K. You will fail. Just by the numbers alone, with somewhere around 50M HP that have to be blasted off within 15 minutes, you're looking at a minimum of 35K. Otherwise you may as well be AFK, since you're entirely reliant on someone else to carry you through it. And that's easymode content. You just won't cut it endgame that way. Something like HSE pushes into the range of 200K+ needed
10K functionally AFK? You must be really reliant on DPS. This use to roughly be the maximum output on DPS, during the old days of the Borg Elites. And won't complete it if that's so? Bah, tell that to my two characters that both have the achievements from back then. So you're completely wrong there.
Nah, he isn't. 10K is functionally AFK. Even 20k. In fact, it's pretty hard to do 20k (and not more). I remember having completed an Endeavor, saying 'Do 20,000 Tetryon damage,' whilst I had no Tetryon weapons loaded at all. Turns out it was solely from the Nukara Tetryon Cascade thingy. LOL.
Seriously. I'll never be able to do 200k; not even close. But 10k?! Then you might, indeed, as well be AFK. And get the penalty for it, AFAIC.
I complete this endeavor and never fire a single tetryon anything. Just go do Delta Flight. It'll complete this endeavor for you.
“But, this was pre-ViL. The new level 65 part might change this, as I haven't actually tested it. But the old tactics do still work here. Not that I plan to either. I seldom run these, as it is.”
This is the 2nd level cap rise and a number of combat rebalances. The old 10k dps tactics don’t work anymore and the NPCs have a massive amount more hitpoints now compared to back then. Ships that could run ISA back then would fail today at level 60 or 65. The tactics have changed and so has the amount of DPS needed to pull off the mission and still get the time bonus. Wasn't it something like back then we only had to blow up 30million odd hitpoints, now we have have to work though 50 odd million.
“Most of my builds average around 10-15k DPS and I haven't had a problem so far. And I'm also doing that in PUG runs of ISA. Infected is still pretty much the same. So no. I disagree that 10k may as well be AFK. Yea I've had a couple bad runs, but I haven't had to abandon a run for a LONG time.
10k is still pretty much the baseline for the average player. The goal posts haven't moved much, if at all.
Where DPS fails, Tactics can make up for it. Have someone with a Gravity Well? Take advantage of it!”
Tactics only make up so much it comes down to maths. There is a time limit to complete ISA with all the extra mission objectives. If you are only doing 10k DPS and all you team is also doing 10k dps is doesn’t matter what tactics you use it’s impossible to complete the mission in the time limit. The hitpoints have been buffed up to something like 50million across the mission.
If you are truly only getting 10k in ISA was the entire team getting 10k each or did someone else do 75k+ to make the mission doable or did you fail all the optionals? I just don't see how at level 65 a 50k DPS team can pull of ISA with the optional. In the past at level 50 sure but not now at level 65.
10k doesn’t seem like the baseline to me, that is well below the baseline. Not even sure how you only get 10k at level 65 you should be getting that without any equipment fitted just from captain powers. Photonic fleet or Fleet support should be doing 10k by themselves. You can hit 30k just from hanger pets and captain powers without factoring in ship equipment or bridge powers.
Yes, my hangar pets with the Vorgon carrier put me near 20k overall, just my carrier itself was doing 10k.
Still, I generally stay away from queues, ISA, whatever, and just have fun by myself. That way I don't 'insult' big DPSers with my "may as well be AFKing" ship.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
This isn't true at all. 10K is functionally indistinguishable from AFK. Just try to do even ISA with only 10K. You will fail. Just by the numbers alone, with somewhere around 50M HP that have to be blasted off within 15 minutes, you're looking at a minimum of 35K. Otherwise you may as well be AFK, since you're entirely reliant on someone else to carry you through it. And that's easymode content. You just won't cut it endgame that way. Something like HSE pushes into the range of 200K+ needed
10K functionally AFK? You must be really reliant on DPS. This use to roughly be the maximum output on DPS, during the old days of the Borg Elites. And won't complete it if that's so? Bah, tell that to my two characters that both have the achievements from back then. So you're completely wrong there.
Nah, he isn't. 10K is functionally AFK. Even 20k. In fact, it's pretty hard to do 20k (and not more). I remember having completed an Endeavor, saying 'Do 20,000 Tetryon damage,' whilst I had no Tetryon weapons loaded at all. Turns out it was solely from the Nukara Tetryon Cascade thingy. LOL.
Seriously. I'll never be able to do 200k; not even close. But 10k?! Then you might, indeed, as well be AFK. And get the penalty for it, AFAIC.
I complete this endeavor and never fire a single tetryon anything. Just go do Delta Flight. It'll complete this endeavor for you.
Although the numbers are the same, '20,000 Tetryon dmg' is not the same as 20k DPS, of course. So, I think the Tetryon Cascade might as well have accomplished the former. That Endeavor might also well indeed have been broken; who knows?!
Point is, I think you're not factoring in the steady power creep. Back in the day, when the '10% rule' still applied, people did 4-10k in ISA. Nowadays ppl do several hundred K. Hadn't done it in a while, but I myself had jumped to 94k, iirc, over time (and I'm not even half-way up the DPS-ladder). So, ppl claiming to do 10k, it might be worthwhile for them actually parsing again, just for fun, and find out they're doing much more now than they remember from the days of lore.
I didn't know that was even the Endeavor when I was flying around in my Tetryon ships and suddenly got the notice that I had completed the Endeavor while flying around in Japori. *Laughs* I like completing Endeavors that easily.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
“But, this was pre-ViL. The new level 65 part might change this, as I haven't actually tested it. But the old tactics do still work here. Not that I plan to either. I seldom run these, as it is.”
This is the 2nd level cap rise and a number of combat rebalances. The old 10k dps tactics don’t work anymore and the NPCs have a massive amount more hitpoints now compared to back then. Ships that could run ISA back then would fail today at level 60 or 65. The tactics have changed and so has the amount of DPS needed to pull off the mission and still get the time bonus. Wasn't it something like back then we only had to blow up 30million odd hitpoints, now we have have to work though 50 odd million.
“Most of my builds average around 10-15k DPS and I haven't had a problem so far. And I'm also doing that in PUG runs of ISA. Infected is still pretty much the same. So no. I disagree that 10k may as well be AFK. Yea I've had a couple bad runs, but I haven't had to abandon a run for a LONG time.
10k is still pretty much the baseline for the average player. The goal posts haven't moved much, if at all.
Where DPS fails, Tactics can make up for it. Have someone with a Gravity Well? Take advantage of it!”
Tactics only make up so much it comes down to maths. There is a time limit to complete ISA with all the extra mission objectives. If you are only doing 10k DPS and all you team is also doing 10k dps is doesn’t matter what tactics you use it’s impossible to complete the mission in the time limit. The hitpoints have been buffed up to something like 50million across the mission.
If you are truly only getting 10k in ISA was the entire team getting 10k each or did someone else do 75k+ to make the mission doable or did you fail all the optionals? I just don't see how at level 65 a 50k DPS team can pull of ISA with the optional. In the past at level 50 sure but not now at level 65.
10k doesn’t seem like the baseline to me, that is well below the baseline. Not even sure how you only get 10k at level 65 you should be getting that without any equipment fitted just from captain powers. Photonic fleet or Fleet support should be doing 10k by themselves. You can hit 30k just from hanger pets and captain powers without factoring in ship equipment or bridge powers.
Quite simple here. I haven't checked the ranges on the two NPC groups above the generators lately. If it is still the same, and everyone hangs low enough on the map, you should be able to destroy the generators and never aggro these. Since just on approaching the generators you can start destroying them and never get within 10 meters of those NPCs. Then if you have 1-2 people with the appropriate CC abilities, generally grav wells and tractor beam repulsors, and are focused on just keeping the nanite spheres away from the generators(i.e. the optional). Then the nanite spheres are not a concern until you're at the gate/tactical cube part of it. Even then you don't have to worry about killing them, as the only requirements for this are:
1) Destroy the Generators
2) Destroy the Gate
3) Destroy the Tactical Cube
4) Optional: Keep nanite spheres from healing generators.
You can just ignore all the NPCs, other than that, if done properly.
Also, on this map, BFAW and Scatter Volley = Bad. The nanite spheres don't appear until the generator takes damage. As long as you aren't AoE'ing at the generators, i,e, single target the smaller 4 generators around it, then this lessens the amount of time where you have to worry about the nanite spheres.
10k doesn’t seem like the baseline to me, that is well below the baseline. Not even sure how you only get 10k at level 65 you should be getting that without any equipment fitted just from captain powers. Photonic fleet or Fleet support should be doing 10k by themselves. You can hit 30k just from hanger pets and captain powers without factoring in ship equipment or bridge powers.
How? Lets see...
I rely on other people to parse as I am not interested in parsing myself and most of my parses have been at least 10-15k range in Infected.
I'm not flying a Carrier, I'm flying a Cruiser on my main. (Either Command Assault Cruiser or Light Exploration Cruiser)
I don't min/max for every last decimal point.
I don't just spam BFAW every chance I get.
I don't have Current Meta mods on my weapons. (I actually have Acc x3 mods on most of my phasers meaning I hit more often than not. Blame the ORIGINAL Delta patrol wrapper rewards for a full set of 6 PvPers Nightmares.)
I don't have gold plated weapons.
I'm a more tactical timing person. I don't hit all the things every chance I get. I try and time it for when it will be the most effective. Not just faceroll spacebar and hit all the things because they're there. My builds aren't DSP monsters. They're balanced. Good mix of offense AND DEFENSE. Because lets face it... you may have good DPS when you're alive, but if you're dead, your DPS is 0.
I am not a hardcore, get all the numbers, guy. I'm pretty causal. I can crank it up when I need to, but I'm in it for the fun. Not the Deeps. If you can parse at least 10k in a PUG run... you're doing something right and can do most Advanced queues just fine. Its when you start gunning for Elite that you might want to bump it up closer to 30k.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
10k doesn’t seem like the baseline to me, that is well below the baseline. Not even sure how you only get 10k at level 65 you should be getting that without any equipment fitted just from captain powers. Photonic fleet or Fleet support should be doing 10k by themselves. You can hit 30k just from hanger pets and captain powers without factoring in ship equipment or bridge powers.
How? Lets see...
I rely on other people to parse as I am not interested in parsing myself and most of my parses have been at least 10-15k range in Infected.
I'm not flying a Carrier, I'm flying a Cruiser on my main. (Either Command Assault Cruiser or Light Exploration Cruiser)
I don't min/max for every last decimal point.
I don't just spam BFAW every chance I get.
I don't have Current Meta mods on my weapons. (I actually have Acc x3 mods on most of my phasers meaning I hit more often than not. Blame the ORIGINAL Delta patrol wrapper rewards for a full set of 6 PvPers Nightmares.)
I don't have gold plated weapons.
I'm a more tactical timing person. I don't hit all the things every chance I get. I try and time it for when it will be the most effective. Not just faceroll spacebar and hit all the things because they're there. My builds aren't DSP monsters. They're balanced. Good mix of offense AND DEFENSE. Because lets face it... you may have good DPS when you're alive, but if you're dead, your DPS is 0.
I am not a hardcore, get all the numbers, guy. I'm pretty causal. I can crank it up when I need to, but I'm in it for the fun. Not the Deeps. If you can parse at least 10k in a PUG run... you're doing something right and can do most Advanced queues just fine. Its when you start gunning for Elite that you might want to bump it up closer to 30k.
Edit: BEGONE EDIT MONSTER!
I'm exactly the same with my builds. I don't run macros because they'd ruin my timings for my triggers. As for "10k might as well AFK", that's baloney elitism. Depending on which ship I run on my main, and when someone has parsed me in ISA, I'll hit between 15k-20k on average because I use my abilities when I know they'll be more effective, and usually I'll be gate guard in PuG's, being in a Sci. I hated the switch to automatic auto-fire, and had to mess around with my settings to stop my ship firing on the first enemy it saw, because I'm wanting to do something else and not draw aggro in the first place.
DPS does not equal skill in this game either. Anyone can copy STObuilds and slap a macro on to spam spacebar and that's it. The skill is in when to tactically deploy your abilities and be in the right place.
But back on topic.
3/5 Dread is an interesting concept, and easy to kit. I'm gonna be throw some Resonating Tets on front with a torp (not decided which yet), 1 Resonating Tet, 2 Omni Tet's, Torp and KCB on Aft. Thought about trying 2 Tet Turrets and 1 Omni Tet as something different, providing I can get decent cooldown on CRF/CSV. Plenty of Tet Weapon sets to try in-game thankfully.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
@leemwatson Those builds sound interesting. I do have some tetryon weapons I can try and also the Nukara ship set/weapon set. I may move all that from carrier to this dread and see what I get.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I'm exactly the same with my builds. I don't run macros because they'd ruin my timings for my triggers. As for "10k might as well AFK", that's baloney elitism. Depending on which ship I run on my main, and when someone has parsed me in ISA, I'll hit between 15k-20k on average because I use my abilities when I know they'll be more effective, and usually I'll be gate guard in PuG's, being in a Sci.
But when you actually *do* 'deploy your abilities' properly, you should be doing considerably more than 'between 15k-20k on average.' So, don't give me this "While you folks are doing lotsa DPS, I'm deploying my abilities tactically." Because that's just baloney mediocrity.
There really ARE people who do it well, and time everything precisely. I'm not one of those ppl, mind you (I'm simply too uncoordinated); but those that do, reach monster DPS-es. And that's how it should be. Thing just is, you can't have your cookie and eat it: either you suck, and don't mind (because you emphasize fun over DPS, which is fine), or you're very good, and can speak from authority. But you can't go and say "I only do between 15k-20k on average, but I'm doing it better than all you spacebarring monkeys." As, obviously, you do not.
And P.S. I know Sci Captains who out-DPS me 3:1, easily. So, that's no excuse for only doing 15-20k, either.
Wow where did the discussion of the ridiculous 3front 5aft weapons ship go? Yeah i m one of the guys who think a 3/5 set up with 5 aft weapons is nonsense. I guess i start practicing flying a ship backwards now...
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Wow where did the discussion of the ridiculous 3front 5aft weapons ship go? Yeah i m one of the guys who think a 3/5 set up with 5 aft weapons is nonsense. I guess i start practicing flying a ship backwards now...
I'm not exactly sold on the 3/5 layout either. Probably because I don't know enough about the game. Personally, whilst I can envision some sort of mine boat, I can't fathom one which isn't easily outmatched by any regular 5/3 layout setup. I will already be impressed when someone comes up with a 3/5 build that is at least equally good.
Wow where did the discussion of the ridiculous 3front 5aft weapons ship go? Yeah i m one of the guys who think a 3/5 set up with 5 aft weapons is nonsense. I guess i start practicing flying a ship backwards now...
I'm not exactly sold on the 3/5 layout either. Probably because I don't know enough about the game. Personally, whilst I can envision some sort of mine boat, I can't fathom one which isn't easily outmatched by any regular 5/3 layout setup. I will already be impressed when someone comes up with a 3/5 build that is at least equally good.
This is one of those ships, where the standard modus operandi will not be applicable. Which puts one at the base idea level with it. As other have said, they have a base idea of a layout. But, all that is subject to change as you play. So, yeah, a 5/3 setup can out perform the 3/5 one. As it's a pretty standard and widely used setup. So, not that hard to slap something together for it. Which is why people are complaining about the 3/5 setup. They can't apply the cookie cutter, cardboard cutout build they snatched off reddit or the forums here to it. So, they're writing it off, before they even give it a chance. I'm actually one of the worse for this. I write off cruisers all the time. I just don't like them in general. Though, i will admit, there is one cruiser that I have found fun to play. That's the Risian Luxury Liner.
Like me, I have a base idea. Mainly in what I want to attempt, it probably won't survive first contact, but who knows. I'm not acquiring any parts or anything else, until I have the ship. Then, with what I have available to me there, I will test a few things out, see how it handles, and you know, get a base feel for the ship. But, that's me, I have to have the ship first, the stats do me no good. They just provide me with the base information I need to form an idea. Which, a lot of people are doing, forming ideas, and looking at the potential.
Of course this is also one of those time you have to appreciate the developers. This really is the fourth new thing they put out with ViL. The Gamma Quadrant BZ, Wingman, the Polaron weapon from Home, and now this, a 3/5 ship. All of which has never been seen before in game. So, you have to appreciate that they're willing to try new things like this. Which, yes, has backfired on them before. The dyson ships come to mind here, and so does the Bortasque. Neither of these ships received much love from the player on their release. I'm not sure how they're doing now though. Still, though, you have to appreciate the fact they're trying this, even if it has the potential to backfire on them.
(the transforming ship concept remains completely unique to the Dyson and has never been revisited anywhere else it might have been appropriate, and can no longer be accessed in any real T6 ships)
Not ENTIRELY accurate. While true we don't have any ships that trade Commander slots, we DO have T6 variants of the Veteran Destroyers that have a form of transformation mechanic. They just swap clicky powers rather than BOff stations though.
Wow where did the discussion of the ridiculous 3front 5aft weapons ship go? Yeah i m one of the guys who think a 3/5 set up with 5 aft weapons is nonsense. I guess i start practicing flying a ship backwards now...
I'm not exactly sold on the 3/5 layout either. Probably because I don't know enough about the game. Personally, whilst I can envision some sort of mine boat, I can't fathom one which isn't easily outmatched by any regular 5/3 layout setup. I will already be impressed when someone comes up with a 3/5 build that is at least equally good.
This is one of those ships, where the standard modus operandi will not be applicable. Which puts one at the base idea level with it. As other have said, they have a base idea of a layout. But, all that is subject to change as you play. So, yeah, a 5/3 setup can out perform the 3/5 one. As it's a pretty standard and widely used setup. So, not that hard to slap something together for it. Which is why people are complaining about the 3/5 setup. They can't apply the cookie cutter, cardboard cutout build they snatched off reddit or the forums here to it. So, they're writing it off, before they even give it a chance. I'm actually one of the worse for this. I write off cruisers all the time. I just don't like them in general. Though, i will admit, there is one cruiser that I have found fun to play. That's the Risian Luxury Liner.
Like me, I have a base idea. Mainly in what I want to attempt, it probably won't survive first contact, but who knows. I'm not acquiring any parts or anything else, until I have the ship. Then, with what I have available to me there, I will test a few things out, see how it handles, and you know, get a base feel for the ship. But, that's me, I have to have the ship first, the stats do me no good. They just provide me with the base information I need to form an idea. Which, a lot of people are doing, forming ideas, and looking at the potential.
Of course this is also one of those time you have to appreciate the developers. This really is the fourth new thing they put out with ViL. The Gamma Quadrant BZ, Wingman, the Polaron weapon from Home, and now this, a 3/5 ship. All of which has never been seen before in game. So, you have to appreciate that they're willing to try new things like this. Which, yes, has backfired on them before. The dyson ships come to mind here, and so does the Bortasque. Neither of these ships received much love from the player on their release. I'm not sure how they're doing now though. Still, though, you have to appreciate the fact they're trying this, even if it has the potential to backfire on them.
Yes, I will be intently watching the forums to see what ppl will come up with.
I think Cryptic should actually introduce mine Science abilities: you know, something we can actually use on that ship, as its current station layout leaves only room for pathetically low versions of the Tact mine abilities. So, while I do applaud them for trying, I'm thinking maybe someone should have tried a little harder on this one. :P
P.S. I'd still fly a T6 Dyson ship, if they sell one (and one with upgradable DHC, please).
Comments
Then you should be happy to know that I don't do queues like that. What I do, my ships get me through it at less than 20k. You DPS-chasers continue to chase it if you want and I'll do my thing. Just stop with the disrespect.
Just because someone makes sure they have enough DPS to pass the mission it doesn't mean they are a DPS chaser.
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Speaking generally not all missions have that high requirement.
10K functionally AFK? You must be really reliant on DPS. This use to roughly be the maximum output on DPS, during the old days of the Borg Elites. And won't complete it if that's so? Bah, tell that to my two characters that both have the achievements from back then. So you're completely wrong there. The old Borg queues actually have this thing called tactics as a part of it. If you're team knows the tactics and what to do. You can complete these in less that 15 minutes, and make the optional as well.
But, this was pre-ViL. The new level 65 part might change this, as I haven't actually tested it. But the old tactics do still work here. Not that I plan to either. I seldom run these, as it is.
With that being said, I do not parse my damage, never have. So, I have no clue what it is. Does this mean I haven't equipped my ship? No. It only means I'm not the same cardboard cutout as most every other meta player. But then, I also don't do Elites. There is no point in them. I can get everything I need in Advanced. If there was a special gear drop or something one could obtain from doing said Elites, then yeah, I'd do them. And an accolade, bah, I gave up caring about those, about the same time that Cryptic broke them. Right now, the Elites have no reason to exist at all. And with the Elites having no reason to exist. Your "end game" argument there, becomes invalid.
Note: "End game", is in quotation marks, because I realize, this is an MMO. So, there is no true end game, unless they announce that the server is being shut down. Until then, we're at an intermission point, waiting on new content. Which also serves to make the "End game" argument invalid.
Edit: Minor spelling errors and to forgot to add.
As with all MMO's, the Normal content, i.e. Normal queues, are the "end game" content. As it is designed so that everyone has a chance to complete it. The reason why the the harder modes exist. Is to give those that eventually find the "end game" content to easy and need something to do.
Nah, he isn't. 10K is functionally AFK. Even 20k. In fact, it's pretty hard to do 20k (and not more). I remember having completed an Endeavor, saying 'Do 20,000 Tetryon damage,' whilst I had no Tetryon weapons loaded at all. Turns out it was solely from the Nukara Tetryon Cascade thingy. LOL.
Seriously. I'll never be able to do 200k; not even close. But 10k?! Then you might, indeed, as well be AFK. And get the penalty for it, AFAIC.
10k is still pretty much the baseline for the average player. The goal posts haven't moved much, if at all.
Where DPS fails, Tactics can make up for it. Have someone with a Gravity Well? Take advantage of it!
I do have issues with people dropping Grav Wells on the Transformers and DRAWING the nanite spheres in because "Grav Well does damage too".
The only thing I can think of where ridiculous DPS is absolutely required, is the last part of Korfez. But I have a feeling that its just outright broken rather than a lack of damage output. Even with THREE, count 'em, THREE Megawell builds and some SERIOUS Science capability (shield pen style) my fleet has been UNABLE to knock the Boss Ship down past 80%. AT ALL! And we used to be able to wreck that ship no problem. Now its like its dang near immune to EVERYTHING. And we can't even shoot down the warheads because its pretty much constant miss, and any shots that do hit are shrugged off by the warheads as if it was just a turret hit and not a full Alpha Strike.
I complete this endeavor and never fire a single tetryon anything. Just go do Delta Flight. It'll complete this endeavor for you.
Tactics only make up so much it comes down to maths. There is a time limit to complete ISA with all the extra mission objectives. If you are only doing 10k DPS and all you team is also doing 10k dps is doesn’t matter what tactics you use it’s impossible to complete the mission in the time limit. The hitpoints have been buffed up to something like 50million across the mission.
If you are truly only getting 10k in ISA was the entire team getting 10k each or did someone else do 75k+ to make the mission doable or did you fail all the optionals? I just don't see how at level 65 a 50k DPS team can pull of ISA with the optional. In the past at level 50 sure but not now at level 65.
10k doesn’t seem like the baseline to me, that is well below the baseline. Not even sure how you only get 10k at level 65 you should be getting that without any equipment fitted just from captain powers. Photonic fleet or Fleet support should be doing 10k by themselves. You can hit 30k just from hanger pets and captain powers without factoring in ship equipment or bridge powers.
Still, I generally stay away from queues, ISA, whatever, and just have fun by myself. That way I don't 'insult' big DPSers with my "may as well be AFKing" ship.
Although the numbers are the same, '20,000 Tetryon dmg' is not the same as 20k DPS, of course. So, I think the Tetryon Cascade might as well have accomplished the former. That Endeavor might also well indeed have been broken; who knows?!
Point is, I think you're not factoring in the steady power creep. Back in the day, when the '10% rule' still applied, people did 4-10k in ISA. Nowadays ppl do several hundred K. Hadn't done it in a while, but I myself had jumped to 94k, iirc, over time (and I'm not even half-way up the DPS-ladder). So, ppl claiming to do 10k, it might be worthwhile for them actually parsing again, just for fun, and find out they're doing much more now than they remember from the days of lore.
Quite simple here. I haven't checked the ranges on the two NPC groups above the generators lately. If it is still the same, and everyone hangs low enough on the map, you should be able to destroy the generators and never aggro these. Since just on approaching the generators you can start destroying them and never get within 10 meters of those NPCs. Then if you have 1-2 people with the appropriate CC abilities, generally grav wells and tractor beam repulsors, and are focused on just keeping the nanite spheres away from the generators(i.e. the optional). Then the nanite spheres are not a concern until you're at the gate/tactical cube part of it. Even then you don't have to worry about killing them, as the only requirements for this are:
1) Destroy the Generators
2) Destroy the Gate
3) Destroy the Tactical Cube
4) Optional: Keep nanite spheres from healing generators.
You can just ignore all the NPCs, other than that, if done properly.
Also, on this map, BFAW and Scatter Volley = Bad. The nanite spheres don't appear until the generator takes damage. As long as you aren't AoE'ing at the generators, i,e, single target the smaller 4 generators around it, then this lessens the amount of time where you have to worry about the nanite spheres.
How? Lets see...
I'm a more tactical timing person. I don't hit all the things every chance I get. I try and time it for when it will be the most effective. Not just faceroll spacebar and hit all the things because they're there. My builds aren't DSP monsters. They're balanced. Good mix of offense AND DEFENSE. Because lets face it... you may have good DPS when you're alive, but if you're dead, your DPS is 0.
I am not a hardcore, get all the numbers, guy. I'm pretty causal. I can crank it up when I need to, but I'm in it for the fun. Not the Deeps. If you can parse at least 10k in a PUG run... you're doing something right and can do most Advanced queues just fine. Its when you start gunning for Elite that you might want to bump it up closer to 30k.
Edit: BEGONE EDIT MONSTER!
And enough already about DPS. It sounds like this at this point
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm exactly the same with my builds. I don't run macros because they'd ruin my timings for my triggers. As for "10k might as well AFK", that's baloney elitism. Depending on which ship I run on my main, and when someone has parsed me in ISA, I'll hit between 15k-20k on average because I use my abilities when I know they'll be more effective, and usually I'll be gate guard in PuG's, being in a Sci. I hated the switch to automatic auto-fire, and had to mess around with my settings to stop my ship firing on the first enemy it saw, because I'm wanting to do something else and not draw aggro in the first place.
DPS does not equal skill in this game either. Anyone can copy STObuilds and slap a macro on to spam spacebar and that's it. The skill is in when to tactically deploy your abilities and be in the right place.
But back on topic.
3/5 Dread is an interesting concept, and easy to kit. I'm gonna be throw some Resonating Tets on front with a torp (not decided which yet), 1 Resonating Tet, 2 Omni Tet's, Torp and KCB on Aft. Thought about trying 2 Tet Turrets and 1 Omni Tet as something different, providing I can get decent cooldown on CRF/CSV. Plenty of Tet Weapon sets to try in-game thankfully.
But when you actually *do* 'deploy your abilities' properly, you should be doing considerably more than 'between 15k-20k on average.' So, don't give me this "While you folks are doing lotsa DPS, I'm deploying my abilities tactically." Because that's just baloney mediocrity.
There really ARE people who do it well, and time everything precisely. I'm not one of those ppl, mind you (I'm simply too uncoordinated); but those that do, reach monster DPS-es. And that's how it should be. Thing just is, you can't have your cookie and eat it: either you suck, and don't mind (because you emphasize fun over DPS, which is fine), or you're very good, and can speak from authority. But you can't go and say "I only do between 15k-20k on average, but I'm doing it better than all you spacebarring monkeys." As, obviously, you do not.
And P.S. I know Sci Captains who out-DPS me 3:1, easily. So, that's no excuse for only doing 15-20k, either.
I'm not exactly sold on the 3/5 layout either.
This is one of those ships, where the standard modus operandi will not be applicable. Which puts one at the base idea level with it. As other have said, they have a base idea of a layout. But, all that is subject to change as you play. So, yeah, a 5/3 setup can out perform the 3/5 one. As it's a pretty standard and widely used setup. So, not that hard to slap something together for it. Which is why people are complaining about the 3/5 setup. They can't apply the cookie cutter, cardboard cutout build they snatched off reddit or the forums here to it. So, they're writing it off, before they even give it a chance. I'm actually one of the worse for this. I write off cruisers all the time. I just don't like them in general. Though, i will admit, there is one cruiser that I have found fun to play. That's the Risian Luxury Liner.
Like me, I have a base idea. Mainly in what I want to attempt, it probably won't survive first contact, but who knows. I'm not acquiring any parts or anything else, until I have the ship. Then, with what I have available to me there, I will test a few things out, see how it handles, and you know, get a base feel for the ship. But, that's me, I have to have the ship first, the stats do me no good. They just provide me with the base information I need to form an idea. Which, a lot of people are doing, forming ideas, and looking at the potential.
Of course this is also one of those time you have to appreciate the developers. This really is the fourth new thing they put out with ViL. The Gamma Quadrant BZ, Wingman, the Polaron weapon from Home, and now this, a 3/5 ship. All of which has never been seen before in game. So, you have to appreciate that they're willing to try new things like this. Which, yes, has backfired on them before. The dyson ships come to mind here, and so does the Bortasque. Neither of these ships received much love from the player on their release. I'm not sure how they're doing now though. Still, though, you have to appreciate the fact they're trying this, even if it has the potential to backfire on them.
Not ENTIRELY accurate. While true we don't have any ships that trade Commander slots, we DO have T6 variants of the Veteran Destroyers that have a form of transformation mechanic. They just swap clicky powers rather than BOff stations though.
Yes, I will be intently watching the forums to see what ppl will come up with.
I think Cryptic should actually introduce mine Science abilities: you know, something we can actually use on that ship, as its current station layout leaves only room for pathetically low versions of the Tact mine abilities. So, while I do applaud them for trying, I'm thinking maybe someone should have tried a little harder on this one. :P
P.S. I'd still fly a T6 Dyson ship, if they sell one (and one with upgradable DHC, please).