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Unofficial Literary Challenge 47 Discussion Thread

starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
This is the discussion thread for Unofficial Literary Challenge #47: "Dominion Deliberations".

As usual, be honest and polite.
"Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
— Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
2bnroi.jpg
Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
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  • jonnaroslynjonnaroslyn Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    ... the death of a teenage James T. Kirk...
    In the far distance, a voice... "The needs of the many... !"

    Anyway, I was hoping to get back into writing for the ULC, but I haven't even played Victory Is Life yet, so maybe next month!
  • drajora#9471 drajora Member Posts: 3 New User
    Posted my attempt. Unfortunately, it's been quite a while since I did one of these...to the point where the last one I did was on the old forums, and I can't tell how the formatting is supposed to work in this new one.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    > @drajora#9471 said:
    > Posted my attempt. Unfortunately, it's been quite a while since I did one of these...to the point where the last one I did was on the old forums, and I can't tell how the formatting is supposed to work in this new one.

    Well, welcome back. I'm at work now, I'll read it later.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 7,596 Arc User
    A short-short, inspired by listening to the song below...


    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • drajora#9471 drajora Member Posts: 3 New User
    [quote="starswordc;c-13382935"]> @drajora#9471 said:
    > Posted my attempt. Unfortunately, it's been quite a while since I did one of these...to the point where the last one I did was on the old forums, and I can't tell how the formatting is supposed to work in this new one.

    Well, welcome back. I'm at work now, I'll read it later.[/quote]

    Thanks. When you're done, can you point me to where some formatting instructions are - bold, italics and the like? BBCode doesn't seem to be accepted.​​
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    Well, if you posted from the mobile interface, BBcode is disabled.

    Awesome story, though. I thought "Move Along Home" was kind of a dumb episode but you managed to do something pretty ingenious with it.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    I did Prompt three. Obviously, the "Horrific act" was letting the Iconians die.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    clarifying and avoiding the post/edit monster.

    One event, results in a 'golden age'. here's my take;

    The survival of the Iconians resulted in a lot of their remnant tech being scattered and preserved-with results ranging outward from their continued warfare prior to retreating to Andromeda. over-all, the impact of them actually going extinct was that the Klingons had a more normal development curve, the H'urq were still a horrific thing thanks to the Founders and Dominion, but not as horrible. further impacts devolve from there-the vulcan civil war, the Orion Empire and several things happen slightly differently without the functional debris of the Iconian migration or the influence by Iconian puppet-races on the affairs of younger species. Some migrations don't happen, some events turn differently, all because "General" K'Ragh went back, and instead of stopping Sela, he stopped the Iconians from escaping. Their conquerors in turn burned themselves out in internecine warfare and without caches of Iconian technology, the Dominion doesn't have the huge technological advantage they have in the prime timeline, nor do the Tholians. Further, the Klingon Empire is moderated without having the early advantage of salvaged devices, they had to actually lift themselves out of the muck on their own.

    In turn, Earth's first contact is a relatively Rationalist Klingon Empire, while the Vulcan/Andorian conflict went hot, t hen was quashed. Absorbtion of these disparate cultures leads to an eventual shift in Klingon policy right around the time of Archer, which in turn leads to Jim Kirk becoming a politician, instead of an (in) famous explorer, eventually the strain of 'ruling' pushes the Klingons toward a commonwealth structure, which in turn leads to the 'today' in that alternate timeline.

    and of course, K'Ragh is going to pass off Daniels as a madman and a lunatic. even if he believed the man, the choice is absolutely clear; a Klingon galaxy is safer and more peaceful than the alternative, in his mind, the madness of the main timeline is something to be devoutly avoided.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    patrickngo wrote: »
    clarifying and avoiding the post/edit monster.

    One event, results in a 'golden age'. here's my take;

    The survival of the Iconians resulted in a lot of their remnant tech being scattered and preserved-with results ranging outward from their continued warfare prior to retreating to Andromeda. over-all, the impact of them actually going extinct was that the Klingons had a more normal development curve, the H'urq were still a horrific thing thanks to the Founders and Dominion, but not as horrible. further impacts devolve from there-the vulcan civil war, the Orion Empire and several things happen slightly differently without the functional debris of the Iconian migration or the influence by Iconian puppet-races on the affairs of younger species. Some migrations don't happen, some events turn differently, all because "General" K'Ragh went back, and instead of stopping Sela, he stopped the Iconians from escaping. Their conquerors in turn burned themselves out in internecine warfare and without caches of Iconian technology, the Dominion doesn't have the huge technological advantage they have in the prime timeline, nor do the Tholians. Further, the Klingon Empire is moderated without having the early advantage of salvaged devices, they had to actually lift themselves out of the muck on their own.

    In turn, Earth's first contact is a relatively Rationalist Klingon Empire, while the Vulcan/Andorian conflict went hot, t hen was quashed. Absorbtion of these disparate cultures leads to an eventual shift in Klingon policy right around the time of Archer, which in turn leads to Jim Kirk becoming a politician, instead of an (in) famous explorer, eventually the strain of 'ruling' pushes the Klingons toward a commonwealth structure, which in turn leads to the 'today' in that alternate timeline.

    and of course, K'Ragh is going to pass off Daniels as a madman and a lunatic. even if he believed the man, the choice is absolutely clear; a Klingon galaxy is safer and more peaceful than the alternative, in his mind, the madness of the main timeline is something to be devoutly avoided.

    LOL, I figured that prompt was going to be a magnet for taking potshots at Daniels. And the Duras Sisters as famed scientists was a nice touch. :D
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • takeshi6takeshi6 Member Posts: 752 Arc User
    Nice prompts.

    And nice story from Patrick. :)
    76561198160276582.png
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    clarifying and avoiding the post/edit monster.

    One event, results in a 'golden age'. here's my take;

    The survival of the Iconians resulted in a lot of their remnant tech being scattered and preserved-with results ranging outward from their continued warfare prior to retreating to Andromeda. over-all, the impact of them actually going extinct was that the Klingons had a more normal development curve, the H'urq were still a horrific thing thanks to the Founders and Dominion, but not as horrible. further impacts devolve from there-the vulcan civil war, the Orion Empire and several things happen slightly differently without the functional debris of the Iconian migration or the influence by Iconian puppet-races on the affairs of younger species. Some migrations don't happen, some events turn differently, all because "General" K'Ragh went back, and instead of stopping Sela, he stopped the Iconians from escaping. Their conquerors in turn burned themselves out in internecine warfare and without caches of Iconian technology, the Dominion doesn't have the huge technological advantage they have in the prime timeline, nor do the Tholians. Further, the Klingon Empire is moderated without having the early advantage of salvaged devices, they had to actually lift themselves out of the muck on their own.

    In turn, Earth's first contact is a relatively Rationalist Klingon Empire, while the Vulcan/Andorian conflict went hot, t hen was quashed. Absorbtion of these disparate cultures leads to an eventual shift in Klingon policy right around the time of Archer, which in turn leads to Jim Kirk becoming a politician, instead of an (in) famous explorer, eventually the strain of 'ruling' pushes the Klingons toward a commonwealth structure, which in turn leads to the 'today' in that alternate timeline.

    and of course, K'Ragh is going to pass off Daniels as a madman and a lunatic. even if he believed the man, the choice is absolutely clear; a Klingon galaxy is safer and more peaceful than the alternative, in his mind, the madness of the main timeline is something to be devoutly avoided.

    LOL, I figured that prompt was going to be a magnet for taking potshots at Daniels. And the Duras Sisters as famed scientists was a nice touch. :D

    He's such a GOOD target, how could I resist?

    seriously, the whole "Temporal war" situation is pretty much a self-inflicted wound. No Iconian War means no project involving an unstable Krenim Researcher, no Sphere builders, drip-drop. Letting the Iconians die out when they were supposed to, instead of saving them, means a whole lot of butterfly effects, since there becomes a near-zero chance for there to be things like Iconian caches, the Dewan extinction, etc. etc. effectively, Daniels and his entire agency are 'protecting' an alteration to the timeline for the sole reason of regime protection. It's the "End of time culture" problem built right into the prompt. The only part I forgot to add, was K'Ragh explaining to Daniels that "We've stopped experimentation on time-travel because it invalidates the worth of individual choices. The Directive is "No time travel, ever"."

    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 7,596 Arc User
    In fact, if we hadn't gone back in time to try to destroy the Iconians 200,000 years ago, they would not have been wiped out - the last few would have escaped with the Worldheart, and reformed their own society on Dewa III. The only reason that didn't happen was Sela. Absent her interference, the entire history of the galaxy would have been changed; there's a chance that neither humans nor Klingons would exist, and even if they did they certainly would have run into a lot more Iconian artifacts. (It also seems likely that without T'ket's screaming need for vengeance, they never would have made the martial turn that warped their society into the fearsome empire we met.)
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    edited June 18
    jonsills wrote: »
    In fact, if we hadn't gone back in time to try to destroy the Iconians 200,000 years ago, they would not have been wiped out - the last few would have escaped with the Worldheart, and reformed their own society on Dewa III. The only reason that didn't happen was Sela. Absent her interference, the entire history of the galaxy would have been changed; there's a chance that neither humans nor Klingons would exist, and even if they did they certainly would have run into a lot more Iconian artifacts. (It also seems likely that without T'ket's screaming need for vengeance, they never would have made the martial turn that warped their society into the fearsome empire we met.)

    you're assuming they would've escaped, when the evidence in the mission is that they would not have.

    Without the Players and the team with them, the Iconians wouldn't have made it to their evacuation device, it would not have been operational, and they'd already lost so many only a dozen or so survived to make the jump.

    all of whom, under the player characters' covering fire.

    remove the covering fire, and the natural progression of events says zero actual Iconians escape, the immediate consequences 200,000 years ago being that the technological civilizations wipe each other out, probably with just as many no-survivors as before, but without the Nifty Iconian Escape infrastructure left intact.

    Long term, it means they don't have agents prepping for their return for the next two hundred millenia...because they're extinct.

    Bajor, Vulcan, EARTH, Qo'noS, Romulus? those civilizations weren't even at "Let's build a steam engine" yet, unknowns, left unknown, existing in obscurity. iow, no 'secret vengeance' because the people with a potential grudge are dead.

    By 'Helping" them, we guaranteed the destruction of trillions, not just in the 24th century, but in the millenia leading up to it.

    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    On the time-travel thing,

    2011-01-05-time-travel2.jpg

    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    > @patrickngo said:
    > On the time-travel thing,

    And of course there's the late Professor Hawking throwing a party for time travelers and nobody showing up.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    So I'm working on a story for "Dominion Delegation" based on an idea I had about three years ago but never wrote. I've updated it somewhat to make it sort of VIL-based and I'm throwing in a few good cameos, a little politics, a little intrigue, a little grumbling about dress uniforms, the works.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 9,738 Arc User
    edited June 19
    drajora - Nice work. That tactic with the Hur'q seems perfect for a gaming species.

    jonsills - Tsk, tsk, overachievers.

    patrickngo - Man, humans are the worst. :D
    Post edited by hawku001x on
    fleet-galorda1a.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 7,596 Arc User
    I'm really dissatisfied with my entry, on contemplation. Over the next couple of days, I'm going to try to find the time to rewrite and replace it.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    I got started on an entry based on another one of the prompts, typed it into the forum 'cold' (No editing) and promptly lost whatever it was and wound up posting a fragment that probably goes nowhere. sorry guys.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • xungnguyenxungnguyen Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    I wrote a captain's log focusing on Sapph's mission to escort a Dominion delegation back to the GQ and her plans. She's an ex-Federation admiral working for the Pridelanders (Simba/Nala's pride). This ties into her defector storyline.
    temporal_lapras__royal_flagship__by_lapry101-dbutq96.png


    "Revenge his foul and most unnatural murder." (King Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5)

    "Simba, you've forgotten me. You've forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
  • xungnguyenxungnguyen Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    Darn it. I need to rewrite the log.
    temporal_lapras__royal_flagship__by_lapry101-dbutq96.png


    "Revenge his foul and most unnatural murder." (King Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5)

    "Simba, you've forgotten me. You've forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    dammit, this is ballooning.
    all that setup...and we're not even to Bajor yet.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    xungnguyen wrote: »
    Darn it. I need to rewrite the log.

    Yeah, there's a known issue with the forum eating posts if you edit posts without adding text to the end of them.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    I think I may have a problem with 'keeping it short'.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 3,267 Arc User
    edited June 23
    Take the dang story OUT of the L.C., Patrickngo. Start a fresh thread for your story....if it's got legs.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." ---UNK
    "If you’re going to fail, fail spectacularly." -- Johnny Shaw
    “It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing it.” ― Terry Pratchett
    "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading." -- Ray Bradbury


  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    Here's Part 1 of "Lies, Damned Lies, and Politics".

    Cast:
    • Crew of USS Bajor:
      • Captain Kanril Eleya, commanding officer: Jennifer Hale
      • Commander Reshek Gaarra, operations officer: Adam Baldwin
      • Lieutenant Dul'krah, Clan Korekh, chief of security: Idris Elba
      • Lieutenant (JG) Arak Esplin, communications officer: Robyn Kramer
    • MACO Unit 131, attached to USS Bajor:
      • Lieutenant Rachel Connor, commanding officer: Michelle Rodriguez
      • Special Warfare Operator First Class Jose Luiz, heavy weapons specialist: Emil Hostina
      • Special Warfare Operator First Class Lamont: TBD
      • Special Warfare Operator Second Class Aarno Kallio, designated marksman: TBD
    • Federation Ambassador-at-Large C. Mohan Kannan: R. Madhavan
    • Detapa Councillor Elim Garak: Andrew Robinson
    • Weyoun 9: Jeffrey Combs
    • Odo: René Auberjonois
    • Commander General Morgaiah ir-Sheratan t'Thavrau, CO, RRW Bloodwing/ch'M'R Aen'rhien: Dina Meyer
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    Definitely "Prime timeline" Kanril.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Definitely "Prime timeline" Kanril.

    Well, yeah, this is a Prime!Eleya story (for one thing, the Iconian War has already happened in 2410). I'm curious what differences you see between the two, though.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    2bnroi.jpg
    Volunteer community moderator for Star Trek Online forums. I am not a Cryptic or Perfect World employee, and comments made without [Mod Hat/] notation are my own opinions and do not reflect company policy. If you do see me put on my [Mod Hat/], please pay attention because I am speaking as a moderator.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 8,153 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Definitely "Prime timeline" Kanril.

    Well, yeah, this is a Prime!Eleya story (for one thing, the Iconian War has already happened in 2410). I'm curious what differences you see between the two, though.

    I think Masterverse Kanril's a bit more experienced by the time the Dominion comes knocking, she has different assets she can put into play, and at least a few different political allies inside the service. Her experiences are, I think, also broader-she's confronted and dealt with issues that Primeverse Kanril never had to even consider as possible, she's seen (a version of) the H'urq first-hand years earlier, had a front-row seat to someone else's civil war, (complete with splatter), and had her assumptions challenged more thoroughly, making her less likely to be deceived by nice-sounding words and promises of peace.

    Less Ideological, and more Idealistic, if you can parse that. It's the difference between belief in theory (Ideology) and having your beliefs tested and confirmed by experience (Idealism). it's not her fault, it's that the wars were (for the most part) shorter and 'cleaner' in the Prime STO timeline-conflicts lasting days or weeks instead of months or years.

    I suspect Prime Kanril is more likely to believe in the concept of a "Short victorious war", while Masterverse Kanril is more likely to evaluate things as longer-term, and to accept that defeat is possible,and adapt accordingly to prevent it, or barring prevention, make it survivable, and she'd have more conceptual tools available to her thanks to that experience.

    I doubt either one has much respect for General "Frontal Assault on a fortified position in the open" Kagran, but that said, I think Masterverse Kanril would have less respect for him than Prime Kanril, since Masterverse Kanril's gotten to know more of the Klingon thought process through experience, as opposed to study, and she knows they don't all come in some flavour of stupid.


    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, **** them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 9,940 Community Moderator
    patrickngo wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Definitely "Prime timeline" Kanril.

    Well, yeah, this is a Prime!Eleya story (for one thing, the Iconian War has already happened in 2410). I'm curious what differences you see between the two, though.

    I think Masterverse Kanril's a bit more experienced by the time the Dominion comes knocking, she has different assets she can put into play, and at least a few different political allies inside the service. Her experiences are, I think, also broader-she's confronted and dealt with issues that Primeverse Kanril never had to even consider as possible, she's seen (a version of) the H'urq first-hand years earlier, had a front-row seat to someone else's civil war, (complete with splatter), and had her assumptions challenged more thoroughly, making her less likely to be deceived by nice-sounding words and promises of peace.

    Less Ideological, and more Idealistic, if you can parse that. It's the difference between belief in theory (Ideology) and having your beliefs tested and confirmed by experience (Idealism). it's not her fault, it's that the wars were (for the most part) shorter and 'cleaner' in the Prime STO timeline-conflicts lasting days or weeks instead of months or years.

    I suspect Prime Kanril is more likely to believe in the concept of a "Short victorious war", while Masterverse Kanril is more likely to evaluate things as longer-term, and to accept that defeat is possible,and adapt accordingly to prevent it, or barring prevention, make it survivable, and she'd have more conceptual tools available to her thanks to that experience.

    I doubt either one has much respect for General "Frontal Assault on a fortified position in the open" Kagran, but that said, I think Masterverse Kanril would have less respect for him than Prime Kanril, since Masterverse Kanril's gotten to know more of the Klingon thought process through experience, as opposed to study, and she knows they don't all come in some flavour of stupid.


    Well actually, as far as Zapp Kagran was concerned, in this 'verse he pitched his idea of the frontal assault on the Herald Sphere... and was immediately relieved of command by Ja'rod and Chancellor Worf.* :tongue: (Eleya then redesigned the plan into one where the frontal assault was a diversion for a cloakship delivering a Romulan sunkiller bomb into the sphere's star.) So the part about Eleya understanding most Klingons not to be dumb ragers is still true. On the other hand, Prime!Kanril also didn't spend her entire career up to her story debut on the Klingon front: instead she was stationed on the Romulan border for a couple years, then spent a bit of time as a liaison officer on DS9.

    So their experiences are different, but their characters are still fairly similar I think.

    * J'mpok having been exposed as conspiring with Melani D'ian to overthrow Martok in this timeline, and killed by Worf in a duel on the Council floor. (Warnings for language, violence, and adult content.)
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
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