test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Discovery -TOS transionsion

ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 520 Arc User
Hay Guys I was doing some Trek-slotting around the Internet and i found something weird we may actually See TOS style Vessels in later seasons of Discovery. From what I gathered as the Show progress we will see more and More TOS Style ships I am not sure this is yet confirmed but its pretty cool to see that. They Did confirmed through that the Enterprise we see is an Early configuration of her before Kirk's Era and the Desgine is to fit with Discovery so that sort of confirmed it we did saw Cage Pilot Uniforms in the Background in Federation Headquarters on Earth we just have to wait and see who knows
May the Shwartz Be With You
CWpA7_1VAAA7vBh.jpg
«13456712

Comments

  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    I hope not. Enterprise is how a prequel is supposed to be done if they got rid of the Temporal Cold War. Introducing advanced technology that wasn't seen until the 24th Century is not how a prequel should be done, but updating the look of ships and technology from the 1960s to the modern era is. The current Enterprise in Discovery looked how it should look based on Modern Aesthetics. We know that it is the Enterprise based on its look, but it fits with the style of a modern Star Trek series.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    I hope not. Enterprise is how a prequel is supposed to be done if they got rid of the Temporal Cold War. Introducing advanced technology that wasn't seen until the 24th Century is not how a prequel should be done, but updating the look of ships and technology from the 1960s to the modern era is. The current Enterprise in Discovery looked how it should look based on Modern Aesthetics. We know that it is the Enterprise based on its look, but it fits with the style of a modern Star Trek series.
    :+1:
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 520 Arc User
    Thats actually a Good Point so its better to have Modern Look of the Vessel but at the Same time trying to kept it the classic look
    May the Shwartz Be With You
    CWpA7_1VAAA7vBh.jpg
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    Exactly. So there shouldn't be any dials and switches on the Enterprise Bridge even if it undergoes some refit. Hopefully, the Enterprise Bridge is much brighter than the Discovery bridge since I just don't see an Enterprise Bridge that dark.
  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 520 Arc User
    Yeah but one of the reason why its so Dark is because of Lorca was from the Mirror Universe and he senetive to Light (good) I think he may have turned down the lighting of the Bridge of Discovery
    May the Shwartz Be With You
    CWpA7_1VAAA7vBh.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    honestly? I don't care about the way the ship interior looks.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    ryuranger wrote: »
    we did saw Cage Pilot Uniforms in the Background in Federation Headquarters on Earth

    No we didn't. They were normal DSC uniforms in lighter blue. Presumably Cadet uniforms.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Starfleet HAS had multiple uniforms in service before.
    generations-confusion.jpg
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Thats actually a Good Point so its better to have Modern Look of the Vessel but at the Same time trying to kept it the classic look

    Rogue one kept the "DISCO!" look, if Star Wars can maintain its 70's look, why can't Trek.

    This is why I tend to cringe when it seems we get nothing but sequels.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Thats actually a Good Point so its better to have Modern Look of the Vessel but at the Same time trying to kept it the classic look

    Rogue one kept the "DISCO!" look, if Star Wars can maintain its 70's look, why can't Trek.

    This is why I tend to cringe when it seems we get nothing but sequels.

    Don't you mean nothing, but prequels? Last sequels was Voyager on May 23, 2001 and Nemesis on December 13, 2002. The only sequels we get after Nemesis is novels and Star Trek Online which don't count as official sequels. All official content after Nemesis has been prequels or remakes.

    A difference between Star Trek and Star Wars is that the technology doesn't change that much in Star Wars. After all, Star Wars just has one form of FTL while Star Trek has a bunch with Warp Drive, Iconian Gateways, Transwarp Drive, Quantum Slipstream, Tachyon Sails, and a few others.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    You're being deliberately obtuse again, Smoky.

    Once more from the top - Star Wars is set "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." We've seen evidence of their cultural and technological stagnation, from the ship designs to the water collection procedures on Tatooine to the capabilites of droids. If anything, their tech has degenerated over the forty or so years from The Phantom Plotline to Return of the Self-Righteous Space Knights. (And it's even worse if you want to accept the various Old Republic games as canon - they had stuff four thousand years ago, during KotOR, that was better than what the Empire and Rebellion fielded.) It would actually be strange if anything *had* been updated.

    Star Trek, on the other hand, is supposed to be in the future. It's awfully hard for an audience in the early 21st century to swallow a starfaring civilization some two hundred years hence whose tech is on the level of what we had years ago. That thick wedge-shaped thing the yeoman kept bringing to Kirk looks like some kind of toy My First Laptop compared to the tablets we've had since 2010. Communicators that have to be flipped open and tuned with a k.nob, and have no function beyond sending and receiving voice signals? My Samsung S8 "phone" (in fact a pocket computer that outperforms desktops of a decade ago) and I can but chuckle at the image. And what's up with all the big ol' switches and buttons that can be accidentally triggered (a plot point of the episode "Court Martial", before anyone spouts any nonsense about them being "safed")? We've got better control schemes than that now - did the Third World War throw us back to such a level of barbarism that we were wearing uncured animal skins and waving spears around when the Vulcans arrived?

    TOS was amazing - for its time. Insisting on keeping that exact same aesthetic today, however, would make any new series appear pathetically dated, like dressing starfaring astronauts in those puffy, sphere-helmed outfits from Destination Moon.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    star wars is also extremely stagnant, to the point where designs from more than 4K years prior were barely changed from the stuff seen in the movies​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    star wars is also extremely stagnant, to the point where designs from more than 4K years prior were barely changed from the stuff seen in the movies​​

    Very true. I mean a lightsaber from the Jedi Civil War can compete with one from the Clone Wars. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Ebon Hawk was still as viable as the Mellenium Falcon.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Yeah but one of the reason why its so Dark is because of Lorca was from the Mirror Universe and he senetive to Light (good) I think he may have turned down the lighting
    starkaos wrote: »
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Thats actually a Good Point so its better to have Modern Look of the Vessel but at the Same time trying to kept it the classic look

    Rogue one kept the "DISCO!" look, if Star Wars can maintain its 70's look, why can't Trek.

    This is why I tend to cringe when it seems we get nothing but sequels.

    Don't you mean nothing, but prequels? Last sequels was Voyager on May 23, 2001 and Nemesis on December 13, 2002. The only sequels we get after Nemesis is novels and Star Trek Online which don't count as official sequels. All official content after Nemesis has been prequels or remakes.

    A difference between Star Trek and Star Wars is that the technology doesn't change that much in Star Wars. After all, Star Wars just has one form of FTL while Star Trek has a bunch with Warp Drive, Iconian Gateways, Transwarp Drive, Quantum Slipstream, Tachyon Sails, and a few others.

    Yep, my bad.

    But still....WHY should it be okay for Star Wars to keep the classic visuals, but god FORBID Trek does the same?
    I mean, when I look at these images, here
    > https://www.theverge.com/2015/3/10/8185787/star-trek-original-enterprise-new-movies

    The old still looks great, I feel.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Thats actually a Good Point so its better to have Modern Look of the Vessel but at the Same time trying to kept it the classic look

    Rogue one kept the "DISCO!" look, if Star Wars can maintain its 70's look, why can't Trek.

    This is why I tend to cringe when it seems we get nothing but sequels.
    You mean prequels/reboots?

    latest?cb=20161004003846

    Because the Star Wars ships still look solid and practical, while the TOS Enterprise suffers from major zeerust. In fact I think, 70s and 80s sci-fi in general had a big jump in ship style quality and coolness from the 60s.

    And also, as others have pointed out, Star Wars is stagnant, focused on the glory days of old. Star Trek is progressive, it's all about pushing forward. Changing and improving things is part of the story.

    Further, the TOS Enterprise is a 60s TV model, designed for a medium with lower image quality. Star Wars was a movie, meant to be played on huge screens, so they went to greater lengths to create quality models. That's part of the reason they did the refit when they made TMP. I could see TMP-style ships in modern movies. TOS-style, not so much.

    That said, you don't have to make radical changes to modernize a TOS ship. I could see either of these believably on the big screen:
    ceb493595e667b4826b0f49e4e3ba921.jpg
    a714b389864ce83b7315417fca48db16.jpg

    And Axanar did it really well:
    7e0aac092f59d2c3513d191f89c61943.jpg
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    Also IMO there’s an edge to Starfleet and the Federation in Kirk’s era that’s missing in TNG era. If CBS approached me to do a series I’d set it back then too.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    Then there is the issue of Star Wars being "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" while Star Trek is set 150 to 350 years in the future. Every series of Star Trek has to look futuristic while Star Wars doesn't have that limitation.
  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 520 Arc User
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Thats actually a Good Point so its better to have Modern Look of the Vessel but at the Same time trying to kept it the classic look

    Rogue one kept the "DISCO!" look, if Star Wars can maintain its 70's look, why can't Trek.

    This is why I tend to cringe when it seems we get nothing but sequels.

    One Reason why it is because Star Wars is set in a Galaxy Far Far Away and along time ago and another thing 90% of our tech was inspired by Star Trek it will look out of place with it and tell you the truth Mirror Episode of Enterprise the Defiant look a little out of place with NX class next to it
    May the Shwartz Be With You
    CWpA7_1VAAA7vBh.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    star wars is also extremely stagnant, to the point where designs from more than 4K years prior were barely changed from the stuff seen in the movies​​
    Very true. I mean a lightsaber from the Jedi Civil War can compete with one from the Clone Wars. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Ebon Hawk was still as viable as the Mellenium Falcon.
    Yeah, the Darksaber is every bit as good as a "modern" lightsaber.

    honestly, I kinda think that the SW universe had a technical plateau back before the Jedi order was founded. People sometimes build new stuff, but mostly just make copies of old things.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    star wars is also extremely stagnant, to the point where designs from more than 4K years prior were barely changed from the stuff seen in the movies​​
    Very true. I mean a lightsaber from the Jedi Civil War can compete with one from the Clone Wars. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Ebon Hawk was still as viable as the Mellenium Falcon.
    Yeah, the Darksaber is every bit as good as a "modern" lightsaber.

    honestly, I kinda think that the SW universe had a technical plateau back before the Jedi order was founded. People sometimes build new stuff, but mostly just make copies of old things.

    Darksaber can be confusing since there is the novel Darksaber before Disney took over. It was essentially just the super laser of the Death Star and some engines to move it into position.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    what i mean is the light-saber-ish weapon used by Jango Fett... and several others since it got fought over a lot.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    There is no and hopefully there won't be a transition in DSC. The creators have confirmed that canon only applies to events and will be ignored for visual purposes. The Enterprise does not shrink when it gets a "TOS refit" - there is no TOS refit, the visuals are - fully intentional - incompatible.

    " Tamara Deverell: For the Enterprise, we based it initially off of The Original Series. We were really drawing a lot of our materials from that. And then we particularly went to more of the Star Trek movies, which is a little bit fatter, a little bit bigger. Overall, I think we expanded the length of it to be within the world of our Discovery, which is bigger, so we did cheat it as a larger ship.

    Jason Zimmerman: It starts with them giving us designs to work with and then there is a lot of back and forth between VFX and [Tamra’s] department to make sure that we get everything right. There were a lot of conversations and more emails than I could remember about how the design would evolve and sort of match our universe, and that is how we sort of arrived where we are now. "

    (emphasis/italics mine)

    Source: https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/17/star-trek-discovery-uss-enterprise-design-change-clarified-as-creative-decision-not-a-legal-one/​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    There is no and hopefully there won't be a transition in DSC. The creators have confirmed that canon only applies to events and will be ignored for visual purposes. The Enterprise does not shrink when it gets a "TOS refit" - there is no TOS refit, the visuals are - fully intentional - incompatible.

    " Tamara Deverell: For the Enterprise, we based it initially off of The Original Series. We were really drawing a lot of our materials from that. And then we particularly went to more of the Star Trek movies, which is a little bit fatter, a little bit bigger. Overall, I think we expanded the length of it to be within the world of our Discovery, which is bigger, so we did cheat it as a larger ship.

    Jason Zimmerman: It starts with them giving us designs to work with and then there is a lot of back and forth between VFX and [Tamra’s] department to make sure that we get everything right. There were a lot of conversations and more emails than I could remember about how the design would evolve and sort of match our universe, and that is how we sort of arrived where we are now. "

    (emphasis/italics mine)

    Source: https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/17/star-trek-discovery-uss-enterprise-design-change-clarified-as-creative-decision-not-a-legal-one/​​

    Seems to me that makes it a bit of a dubious fit in the Prime timeline. I mean, yeah, we've gotten visual updated before, but... eh.

    I kind of wish DSC would just admit that it's its own reboot, not the same continuity as the rest of the shows. From what I've read about it, I think it would do better if it didn't have to half-heartedly rectify itself with the Prime canon.

    Of course, I don't actually watch the show, so I guess I'm just Complaining About Shows I Don't Watch.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2018
    angrytarg wrote: »
    There is no and hopefully there won't be a transition in DSC. The creators have confirmed that canon only applies to events and will be ignored for visual purposes. The Enterprise does not shrink when it gets a "TOS refit" - there is no TOS refit, the visuals are - fully intentional - incompatible.

    " Tamara Deverell: For the Enterprise, we based it initially off of The Original Series. We were really drawing a lot of our materials from that. And then we particularly went to more of the Star Trek movies, which is a little bit fatter, a little bit bigger. Overall, I think we expanded the length of it to be within the world of our Discovery, which is bigger, so we did cheat it as a larger ship.

    Jason Zimmerman: It starts with them giving us designs to work with and then there is a lot of back and forth between VFX and [Tamra’s] department to make sure that we get everything right. There were a lot of conversations and more emails than I could remember about how the design would evolve and sort of match our universe, and that is how we sort of arrived where we are now. "

    (emphasis/italics mine)

    Source: https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/17/star-trek-discovery-uss-enterprise-design-change-clarified-as-creative-decision-not-a-legal-one/

    Seems to me that makes it a bit of a dubious fit in the Prime timeline. I mean, yeah, we've gotten visual updated before, but... eh.

    I kind of wish DSC would just admit that it's its own reboot, not the same continuity as the rest of the shows. From what I've read about it, I think it would do better if it didn't have to half-heartedly rectify itself with the Prime canon.

    Of course, I don't actually watch the show, so I guess I'm just Complaining About Shows I Don't Watch.

    There's nothing dubious about it at all. It is Prime. It's confirmed as part of production. It exists in the original timeline where the Kelvin wasn't destroyed.

    Though it wouldn't be difficult to imagine that either FC or ENTs Temporal Cold War split off alternate timelines, it has never been confirmed that happened so, pending such a time, people are just going to have to put their big boy pants on and accept that, like TMP, the universe has undergone a visual update for solely out of universe reasons.

    Edit: The single and only reason people accept TMPs immense visual reboots or TNGs or ENTs is due to time. We've had decades to come to terms with them. We've had just over a year for DSC.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    There is no and hopefully there won't be a transition in DSC. The creators have confirmed that canon only applies to events and will be ignored for visual purposes. The Enterprise does not shrink when it gets a "TOS refit" - there is no TOS refit, the visuals are - fully intentional - incompatible.

    " Tamara Deverell: For the Enterprise, we based it initially off of The Original Series. We were really drawing a lot of our materials from that. And then we particularly went to more of the Star Trek movies, which is a little bit fatter, a little bit bigger. Overall, I think we expanded the length of it to be within the world of our Discovery, which is bigger, so we did cheat it as a larger ship.

    Jason Zimmerman: It starts with them giving us designs to work with and then there is a lot of back and forth between VFX and [Tamra’s] department to make sure that we get everything right. There were a lot of conversations and more emails than I could remember about how the design would evolve and sort of match our universe, and that is how we sort of arrived where we are now. "

    (emphasis/italics mine)

    Source: https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/17/star-trek-discovery-uss-enterprise-design-change-clarified-as-creative-decision-not-a-legal-one/

    Seems to me that makes it a bit of a dubious fit in the Prime timeline. I mean, yeah, we've gotten visual updated before, but... eh.

    I kind of wish DSC would just admit that it's its own reboot, not the same continuity as the rest of the shows. From what I've read about it, I think it would do better if it didn't have to half-heartedly rectify itself with the Prime canon.

    Of course, I don't actually watch the show, so I guess I'm just Complaining About Shows I Don't Watch.

    There's nothing dubious about it at all. It is Prime. It's confirmed as part of production. It exists in the original timeline where the Kelvin wasn't destroyed.

    Though it wouldn't be difficult to imagine that either FC or ENTs Temporal Cold War split off alternate timelines, it has never been confirmed that happened so, pending such a time, people are just going to have to put their big boy pants on and accept that, like TMP, the universe has undergone a visual update for solely out of universe reasons.

    Edit: The single and only reason people accept TMPs immense visual reboots or TNGs or ENTs is due to time. We've had decades to come to terms with them. We've had just over a year for DSC.​​

    Eh, there's a difference between the creators saying "Yeah, this is totally in the same continuity as the original shows" and them actually making everything match up. The impression I get is that they really haven't taken a lot of effort to fit the show into the original timeline. I don't think that's it's necessarily bad for them to do their own thing, I just think they'd be better off just letting it be a reboot since that's basically how they seem to be handling it.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    There is no and hopefully there won't be a transition in DSC. The creators have confirmed that canon only applies to events and will be ignored for visual purposes. The Enterprise does not shrink when it gets a "TOS refit" - there is no TOS refit, the visuals are - fully intentional - incompatible.

    " Tamara Deverell: For the Enterprise, we based it initially off of The Original Series. We were really drawing a lot of our materials from that. And then we particularly went to more of the Star Trek movies, which is a little bit fatter, a little bit bigger. Overall, I think we expanded the length of it to be within the world of our Discovery, which is bigger, so we did cheat it as a larger ship.

    Jason Zimmerman: It starts with them giving us designs to work with and then there is a lot of back and forth between VFX and [Tamra’s] department to make sure that we get everything right. There were a lot of conversations and more emails than I could remember about how the design would evolve and sort of match our universe, and that is how we sort of arrived where we are now. "

    (emphasis/italics mine)

    Source: https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/17/star-trek-discovery-uss-enterprise-design-change-clarified-as-creative-decision-not-a-legal-one/​​

    Seems to me that makes it a bit of a dubious fit in the Prime timeline. I mean, yeah, we've gotten visual updated before, but... eh.

    I kind of wish DSC would just admit that it's its own reboot, not the same continuity as the rest of the shows. From what I've read about it, I think it would do better if it didn't have to half-heartedly rectify itself with the Prime canon.

    Of course, I don't actually watch the show, so I guess I'm just Complaining About Shows I Don't Watch.
    But it isn't a reboot. A reboot implies that everything you knew about the franchise could be completely different.

    Like with the Battlestar Galactica Reboot. The Cylons are no longer made by some aliens, they are a human creation. There was already a war against the Cylons 50 years ago. The Battlestar Galactica is not one of the modern, contemporary most advanced Battlestars in the fleet, it fought in the original war and was about to be decomissioned. Admiral Cain and Starbuck are women, not men. There are no Ships of Light and no other human civilizations, there are no aliens.

    Discovery is at best doing some retconning. Nothing really suggests that the events in Discover would somehow affect whether a young Jean Luc Picard with the Starfleet Academy marathon, and later, despite losing the Stargazer in a fight against the Ferengi, becomes Captain of the USS Enterprise NCC 1701-D and on his first mission encounters Q.

    Saying it's a reboot implies that nothing you know about the setting has to come to pass. Saying explicitly it's a prequel set in the Prime Timeline means that the events you know will still come to pass, and you get to see a bit how things got there.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    There is no and hopefully there won't be a transition in DSC. The creators have confirmed that canon only applies to events and will be ignored for visual purposes. The Enterprise does not shrink when it gets a "TOS refit" - there is no TOS refit, the visuals are - fully intentional - incompatible.

    " Tamara Deverell: For the Enterprise, we based it initially off of The Original Series. We were really drawing a lot of our materials from that. And then we particularly went to more of the Star Trek movies, which is a little bit fatter, a little bit bigger. Overall, I think we expanded the length of it to be within the world of our Discovery, which is bigger, so we did cheat it as a larger ship.

    Jason Zimmerman: It starts with them giving us designs to work with and then there is a lot of back and forth between VFX and [Tamra’s] department to make sure that we get everything right. There were a lot of conversations and more emails than I could remember about how the design would evolve and sort of match our universe, and that is how we sort of arrived where we are now. "

    (emphasis/italics mine)

    Source: https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/17/star-trek-discovery-uss-enterprise-design-change-clarified-as-creative-decision-not-a-legal-one/

    Seems to me that makes it a bit of a dubious fit in the Prime timeline. I mean, yeah, we've gotten visual updated before, but... eh.

    I kind of wish DSC would just admit that it's its own reboot, not the same continuity as the rest of the shows. From what I've read about it, I think it would do better if it didn't have to half-heartedly rectify itself with the Prime canon.

    Of course, I don't actually watch the show, so I guess I'm just Complaining About Shows I Don't Watch.

    There's nothing dubious about it at all. It is Prime. It's confirmed as part of production. It exists in the original timeline where the Kelvin wasn't destroyed.

    Though it wouldn't be difficult to imagine that either FC or ENTs Temporal Cold War split off alternate timelines, it has never been confirmed that happened so, pending such a time, people are just going to have to put their big boy pants on and accept that, like TMP, the universe has undergone a visual update for solely out of universe reasons.

    Edit: The single and only reason people accept TMPs immense visual reboots or TNGs or ENTs is due to time. We've had decades to come to terms with them. We've had just over a year for DSC.

    Eh, there's a difference between the creators saying "Yeah, this is totally in the same continuity as the original shows" and them actually making everything match up. The impression I get is that they really haven't taken a lot of effort to fit the show into the original timeline. I don't think that's it's necessarily bad for them to do their own thing, I just think they'd be better off just letting it be a reboot since that's basically how they seem to be handling it.

    No, because that implies they need to do that for DSC. They've never done it before. TOS barely fit into its own timeline and was a continuous string of contradictions. ENT didn't even bother tying up to TOS in any significant way. TNG/DS9/VGR rewrote Earth's past from TOS and then from each other.

    Bad continuity is bad continuity. It's never been a indication of a reboot and to just reboot something to remove continuity issues cheapens the product.

    If a character in DSC makes a decision that leads to an event in TOS that now gives that event more depth then you have added to the plot. You don't diminish that just because the Enterprises pylons are now angled. Calling it a reboot would then divorce your stories from any depth or weight they would have due to their connections outside of DSC.

    Star Trek has always been bloody awful at continuity (better at it than Doctor Who though) but like DW the impact of each series relies on the existence of the others to work. If you rebooted every time you couldn't cope with out of universe design decisions then it'd be a very short and shallow show.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    Seems to me that makes it a bit of a dubious fit in the Prime timeline. I mean, yeah, we've gotten visual updated before, but... eh.

    I kind of wish DSC would just admit that it's its own reboot, not the same continuity as the rest of the shows. From what I've read about it, I think it would do better if it didn't have to half-heartedly rectify itself with the Prime canon.

    Of course, I don't actually watch the show, so I guess I'm just Complaining About Shows I Don't Watch.

    I don't think it's an issue, really. Events are still the same, the visuals are incompatible so it's just a style you could theoretically mentally "switch" to TOS and back to DSC as long as all those changes are somehow significantly affecting anything. The "spore drive" is such a thing that is - at this point and in my opinion - completely incohesive with the rest of the franchise and can't exist in another way than the "it was all a dream" routine (in context, it gets declared super seekrit and nobody ever speaks of it again, not even when Earth gets bombed by Breen). That's stupid, but stupidity in Trek isn't anything new either pig-2.gif

    artan42 wrote: »
    There's nothing dubious about it at all. It is Prime. It's confirmed as part of production. It exists in the original timeline where the Kelvin wasn't destroyed.

    Though it wouldn't be difficult to imagine that either FC or ENTs Temporal Cold War split off alternate timelines, it has never been confirmed that happened so, pending such a time, people are just going to have to put their big boy pants on and accept that, like TMP, the universe has undergone a visual update for solely out of universe reasons.

    Edit: The single and only reason people accept TMPs immense visual reboots or TNGs or ENTs is due to time. We've had decades to come to terms with them. We've had just over a year for DSC.

    True. If someone really needs their claw held and everything explained to them, the alternate timeline post FC -> ENT -> DSC makes the most sense and that's what I do for the fluff in my head, but I am personally also fine with giving DSC the Rodenberry Klingon treatment. I don't like the new visuals and hope they don't infect future works, but I mentally simply switch them out and do not WANT an in-universe "explanation" for it.

    Although I have to disagree with you with TMP in general - while the Klingons got the above mentioned treatment, the Enterprise' visual change and - extrapolating - all the other starships and stations change is specifically addressed as a in-universe structural refit of the ships. It's a major plot point. If DSC would now have an episode that shows DSC ships get refit into faithful TOS ships then this would be the same issue. But as I quoted above from the article, that's not the case. DSC changes are purely out-of-universe, TMPs have had out-of-universe reasons but were "fluffified".​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    The "spore drive" is such a thing that is - at this point and in my opinion - completely incohesive with the rest of the franchise and can't exist in another way than the "it was all a dream" routine (in context, it gets declared super seekrit and nobody ever speaks of it again, not even when Earth gets bombed by Breen). That's stupid, but stupidity in Trek isn't anything new either pig-2.gif

    It would be pretty easy to wrap it up after the final series by just having the network cut off so you can't access it.

    It's no different to the device that can build planets from dust or being able to break infinity with a new type of dilithium or a cloak that can move you through solid objects.

    Like the above examples the Spore Drive suffers from some pretty big flaws that give it any number of reasons not to appear after DSC is done with it. Just making it 'classified' wouldn't really do anything.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    ryuranger wrote: »
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Thats actually a Good Point so its better to have Modern Look of the Vessel but at the Same time trying to kept it the classic look

    Rogue one kept the "DISCO!" look, if Star Wars can maintain its 70's look, why can't Trek.

    This is why I tend to cringe when it seems we get nothing but sequels.

    One Reason why it is because Star Wars is set in a Galaxy Far Far Away and along time ago and another thing 90% of our tech was inspired by Star Trek it will look out of place with it and tell you the truth Mirror Episode of Enterprise the Defiant look a little out of place with NX class next to it

    To me, the Defiant looked far more advanced. The NX is clunky, gnarly and covered in bits and bobs (plus the crew had to go outside to do repairs. In the Defiant, everything is on the inside) I said it once, I'll say it again, sleek, smooth, featureless/near featureless, and looking in a way that a conventional engineer/scientist would scratch their heads going, "That's TRIBBLE impossible!!!!!!", which seems to almost be a lost art, now.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSGQMHvQueE


    Because the Star Wars ships still look solid and practical, while the TOS Enterprise suffers from major zeerust. In fact I think, 70s and 80s sci-fi in general had a big jump in ship style quality and coolness from the 60s.

    To me, Star Wars looked more like Bob Villa and Tim Allen were told, "go and get some car engines, we'll put some extra pipes on it and put on the fight model. Take this handgun and put a few extra tubes and nubs on it. etc, etc" Star Wars always felt clunky to me. The only exception were the Naboo vessels, and I loved those.

    I'll always love that 60's trek starship, as in the aforementioned smoothness, and such over mega greeble encrusted stuff any time. Best 'modern' example I seen, apart from the Naboo, was the vessel from Flight of the Navigator, the physical model seen in the hanger. Or when Clara got that Hartnell Tardis, which I loved seeing, because it seems the guys doing Doctor from 2005-present seemed to wanted to make the Tardis interior as clunky, and awkward as they could do it....to the point of looking like something Fred and Lamont Sanford would make.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.