DS9 scale issue

theonlyhamster

So this maybe just me but i dont like the scale DS9 is at the moment in game externally

DS9 Was never as big as it is atm
And personally i want it to be its original size

As you can see from these 2 images the games DS9 is oversized

Ds9 show:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/297051303669137408/436655357897605151/excelsior-ds9-chimera.png

Ds9 with defiant in game:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/393482874055032843/436806237750034433/image.png


Now i understand from a community perspective for a player hub DS9 would be dwarfed by the number of player ships

But ds9 as it stands is too big it should be IMO its original size

snipey47a

Yeah I noticed that when i had a sovereign parked next to an upper pylon. It is a bit too big right now.

darkbladejk

That's something I've noticed as well but I can understand at the same time why it wasn't made to 100% correct scale. Like several other objects that come to mind DS9 is one of those objects that for gameplay reasons was made either smaller or larger than in the show. ESD is a prime example as the station should be a heck of alot bigger than what it actually is. If you compare the doors to the size of a Galaxy class in game you see that it most likely wouldn't fit if you tried to dock, but on TNG and others that's an issue. The Universe Class dreadnought is another example. From sources I've been able to find the Universe class should be the same size as ESD or pretty close to it. It's not always feasible to make things to the exact scale it should be for gameplay and/or resource usage reasons.

I would say however if you gents haven't been on Tribble yet, the scaling issue should seem like a drop in the bucket compared to the epicness that will be the new DS9 revamp.

tyler002

darkbladejk wrote: »

ESD is a prime example as the station should be a heck of alot bigger than what it actually is. If you compare the doors to the size of a Galaxy class in game you see that it most likely wouldn't fit if you tried to dock, but on TNG and others that's an issue.

If ESD is smaller than the canon one, imagine what Starbase 74 would be like if it was added to the game at its canon size. The thing dwarfs ESD.

szim

I think a dev commented on DS9's size a while ago, saying something along the line of they know it's too big but they are not going to scale it according to canon because then the station would simply get lost among the fleet of allied ships.

DS9's size has never been consistent in the show in the first place. Initially the concept gave it at a diameter of 1'024m, the visual departement worked with a size of 1'609m. A compromise was then made and its official size is now 1'451m.

Upscaling the station for gameplay purposes is fine by me. Seeing the station at its original size right next to a Universe class starship which is 3'200-3'600 meters long would be rather ridiculous.

echatty

The size of DS9 never bothered me. They had to upscale its exterior in order for it not to be dwarfed by ships. I understand that. And I approve. I at least like to see a structure that I'm parking next to, rather than dwarfing it.

I personally don't understand the complaining. What does the size matter to gameplay?

echatty

Works for me

tyler002

sophlogimo wrote: »

The outside of DS9 is a holographically enlarged version, for navigational purposes. You can see this when you bump into it with your ship and don't hit resistance until after being well into the thing.

You sure it wasn't because Kurland felt a bit small next to the other stations?

leemwatson

darkbladejk wrote: »

That's something I've noticed as well but I can understand at the same time why it wasn't made to 100% correct scale. Like several other objects that come to mind DS9 is one of those objects that for gameplay reasons was made either smaller or larger than in the show. ESD is a prime example as the station should be a heck of alot bigger than what it actually is. If you compare the doors to the size of a Galaxy class in game you see that it most likely wouldn't fit if you tried to dock, but on TNG and others that's an issue. The Universe Class dreadnought is another example. From sources I've been able to find the Universe class should be the same size as ESD or pretty close to it. It's not always feasible to make things to the exact scale it should be for gameplay and/or resource usage reasons.

I would say however if you gents haven't been on Tribble yet, the scaling issue should seem like a drop in the bucket compared to the epicness that will be the new DS9 revamp.

I love the interior now on Tribble....but boy, does it feel cramped now they've made the interior to scale!

mustrumridcully0

It's really surprising how fast you can run the circle, isn't it?

Whic probably highlights how ridicilous fast video game characters can run.

tyler002

Aye, though I've only had trouble navigating it on the stairs in Quarks.

Still, at least it's populated unlike that Ghostown of an Engineering on the even more cramped Galaxy Interior.

byozuma

Yeah, there's alot of scale issues not just with DS9 but the game as a whole. You have ESD as previously mentioned, but also the planets, some of the ships, nearly all of the flyable shuttles, most ship interiors, most station interiors, list goes on. Scale isn't something you want to be hung up on in this game, you will find offenses all over the place. Heck, not even the shows and movies got scale right, ESD has been shown in at least two different scales between the TOS movies and TNG series.

tyler002

byozuma#0956 wrote: »

Heck, not even the shows and movies got scale right, ESD has been shown in at least two different scales between the TOS movies and TNG series.

Actually, ESD never appeared in TNG. The only times it appeared after the movies was 1 time in Voyager (though it was never seen from the outside and may or may not be the same facility) and a single shot of it under construction in Discovery.

leemwatson

byozuma#0956 wrote: »

Yeah, there's alot of scale issues not just with DS9 but the game as a whole. You have ESD as previously mentioned, but also the planets, some of the ships, nearly all of the flyable shuttles, most ship interiors, most station interiors, list goes on. Scale isn't something you want to be hung up on in this game, you will find offenses all over the place. Heck, not even the shows and movies got scale right, ESD has been shown in at least two different scales between the TOS movies and TNG series.

I don't mind DS9 exterior in-game. I think it actually suits it AND makes sense. As for Ship scale, as far as the Dev's have said, they are actually to scale.

The problem with interiors, especially with ships, was with the 3rd person camera. To get it to work without disappearing through the walls, they had to make the interiors much larger than intended.

tigeraries

umm isnt it obvious that ships are not to scale in this game? none of the ships scale with each other. so of course space stations will also not scale to ships. just accept that it is a visual representation of what it would be.

duncanidaho11

Here's a scaling compromise, trust me it'll work:

tyler002

azrael605 wrote: »

> @tyler002 said:
> byozuma#0956 wrote: »
>
> Heck, not even the shows and movies got scale right, ESD has been shown in at least two different scales between the TOS movies and TNG series.
>
>
>
>
> Actually, ESD never appeared in TNG. The only times it appeared after the movies was 1 time in Voyager (though it was never seen from the outside and may or may not be the same facility) and a single shot of it under construction in Discovery.

ESD appears in the Binar episode (11001001) of TNG (which swapped the D for the OG Ent and reused the exit sequence).

That's actually Starbase 74, orbiting Tarsas III.

There was also Lya Station Alpha, Starbase 84 & Starbase 133 in TNG that were the same type of Spacedock but the original Earth Spacedock never appeared.

tyler002

Me and the post I was replying to (going by the wording of the comment) were talking about the actual in-universe ESD.

gaevsman

They should scale it down 50% and that's all.... it wont be too small, but also, wont be too large..

isthisscience

gaevsman wrote: »

They should scale it down 50% and that's all.... it wont be too small, but also, wont be too large..

Agreed. Canon size would be too small given how much bigger our ships are and also because of the camera issue they mentioned on stream. But right now the fact it is too large is smacked in your face. Taking it down a bit would seem reasonable and it wouldn't seem so obviously disproportionate.

dracounguis

Wow, didn't realize it was so big in STO. I guess that's why the new Promenade on Tribble server seems so cramped! Normally, I'm 100% for 'true' scaling but a true-sized DS9 might be a wee bit too small considering the silly giant ships everywhere now. The real DS9 barely qualifies as a space station compared to the big 'ol Starfleet mushroom that can hold multiple Excelsiors!

And isn't the Defiant a bad example for scale? I think it grew/shrunk onscreen throughout the run of DS9. In that picture, it looks more massive than the Excelsior.

tyler002

azrael605 wrote: »

> @tyler002 said:
> Me and the post I was replying to (going by the wording of the comment) were talking about the actual in-universe ESD.

There is no actual ESD, it doesn't exist, I was talking about reality.

And I was pretty obviously talking about in-universe. Stock footage is irrelevant when talking about something in-universe; that footage was not used to represent ESD, therefore ESD does not appear in TNG.

tyler002

sophlogimo wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

[...]
ESD appears in the Binar episode (11001001) of TNG (which swapped the D for the OG Ent and reused the exit sequence).

Yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABMG632z7fc

You're replying to someone who missed to the point of the post he was replying to.

spiritborn

Say SB 74 must be the same size as ESD as they used the same model is silly as we have fairly good indication about sizes of both of the stations.

The refit connie barely fits thru the space doors of ESD (it had to be fully out of the dock to be able to turn) and the connie has fairly narrow profile so it's much longer then it's wide. Now if we take the accepted length of GCS at about 650 m, then the GCS is wider then the connie refit is long and unlike with the connie the GCS is fairly wide compared to its length. We know that Enterprise-D barely fit thru the space doors of SB 74 so either Enterprise-D Shrunk to be shorter then the connie refit to fit thru the ESD sized doors of SB 74 or SB 74 is much larger then ESD (in-universe that is, any other comparison is just irrelevant).

byozuma

My point was not to get hung up on scale. Complaining about scale in this game is like complaining about clipping in other games. It's going to happen and as things get more outlandish, happen alot. Could they fix it? Sure, but you'd then have alot of the environs turn into skyboxes with maybe only a couple elements stuckout into the game space for interaction (do you really think Earth is that small? It's tiny in this game! Or ESD for that matter).