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Maybe its time to single the KDF as different from the Fed?
gaalom
Member Posts: 530 Arc User
Allowing Caradassins to join the KDF, seems like a good opportunity to write a small episode, where the High Council rejects the Cardassians. Thoughts?
Off topic I like what they are doing for rewards as you level, that has been a long time coming.
Personally I never liked the Cardassians, but I there is a fan base for them.
Off topic I like what they are doing for rewards as you level, that has been a long time coming.
Personally I never liked the Cardassians, but I there is a fan base for them.
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I'm gonna vote "no".
Restricting the KDF is a bad idea. I would rather Cryptic spent more time fleshing out this oddly multi-cultural KDF. It won't make the "Klingon purists" happy, but we live in a post-Klingon supremacy galaxy. Non-progressive Klingons like J'mpok need to go. Equal representation on the High Council for Gorn and Orions! Letheans and Nausicaans don't need representation because no one cares about them. Ferasans can suck it too.
A few things kid you should learn to read the entire statement, also by episode I meant tiny, small, no voice acting. Secondly I did not give anyone the middle finger, as you would have scene if you were not busy shredding the thread, in fact I worded it very carefully to avoid posts like yours.
I honestly thought, as strange as it sounds, if I worded it just right people would not come in full speed looking for a problem. I thought there could be conversation. Anyways good work on killing the discussion. Ill see if I can delete this thread or get a mod to do it. It is clear there can be no conversation on this subject. "Middle finger" geeze
Anyhoo....we don't know what they are actually doing. They may add a little faction specific story or, more likely, a story blog on Cardassians and why they are joining each faction.
The big middle finger is actually going to go to the Romulan Faction....they were not even mentioned in the original announcement for playable Cardassians being added. I wonder how they are going to handle that split faction thing?
Frankly, rather have a KDF Ferengi than a KDF Cardassian.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I would prefer to hear rational arguments for and against a new people that are under consideration......admitted as a Friend or an Adversary.
Bickering over semantics and perceptions perpetuated by personality feuds inside our own Empire, serves no purpose.
jatlh....For or Against and why? How hard can this be to sway my mind? I am neutral on the subject.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I have no will to type it all out again, so in short - no, the High Council should not denounce the Cardassians cause it would be foolish to reject the "awakened" ones that are willing to join sides with the KDF in the face of the authoritarian mastodon that the Federation is becomming.
And no, none of that IRL multicultural mumbo-jumbo. The High Council is Klingon, they lead, the allied factions march with the KDF in battle while the get to keep their autonomy and culture.
One thing rings in my ears though, worf was speaking to Martok over his choice of a mate in DS9, and Martok barks back at him that as Klingons we conquer lesser races. In fact he furthers the point by saying we do not welcome them in, but if they wish to join they must prove themselves. The cardassians are ripe for conquest, but I know that will never happen. Still I think it would be a good time to split off from the Fed over this. One players opinion.
First ones are from the standpoint oh the in-game lore:
This is STO, and STO with each passing day is getting further and further away from what was established in the shows, especially the older ones like DS:9. What I mean to say is - that dialogue between Worf and Martok you mentioned is irrelevant to STO, because STO has had half a dozen of "allied" factions under the Klingon Empire's dominion since day 1 - a situation that would have never happened in canon and the reality Worf and Martok were talking about.
Not that I'm a Cardassian fan, but the whole "Cardassians are weak, they suffered orbital bombardment from the Dominion, they're to weak to be granted a faction (or even a half-arsed one), ripe for conquest, etc." is a pet peeve of mine. The current status of the Cardassian Union in the game in not due natural progression of events, but due to Cryptic's lack of interest and ambition to actually do anything about it thus far.
The Dominion war was more than 40 years ago. On the other hand, the Hobus supernova was what, 12 years ago? So we are to believe that the Romulans have bascially lost both homeworlds, were subjected under a tyranny that allowed aliens to hunt them down like cattle, were embroiled in a brutal civil war, were divided between 2 factions at war with each other and still they're "stable enough" to stand on their own? But Cardassians are not? They only suffered orbital bombardment on their homeworld, but the planet is still standing. They had transfer of power and government, not a civil war. And that was 40 years ago. In any realistic scenario, today's Cardassia will be able to steamroll over the Romulan Republic within weeks.
Now, from a standpoint of a game-play experience, which is more important IMHO:
The matter of fact is that less players play KDF than Fed. By a large margin. I'm not getting into the reasons for this right now, just stating the facts. Therefore, it would be foolish to restrict the Cardassians from the KDF and basically hand this player population to the Feds on a silver platter.
Take me as an example - I've been waiting for proper Cardassians since 2012. I'm going to play the hell out of them when they arrive. If I'm pushed to the Fed side to play Cardassians, I will play them on the Fed side even though I'm somewhat reluctant towards the faction. Isn't it better for the Klingon faction to have me and Cardassian fans like me fueling the KDF economy with our ton of new Cardassian characters?
From a game perspective I get what your saying, and I do realize with any game, they have to put the resources where it do the most good. The KDF has been odd ball from the start. Sometimes I wish all players could see the KDF at launch, I think they would be shocked to say the least. Though the old courtyard was the best. Anyways sorry went off topic there. I can not argue with your logic from a game perspective, but I still say it could be a opportunity to do something different.
I may not like the cardassians persay, but even I found the old cardassian union/obsidian order interesting. Unfortunately It looks like the devs will do to them, what they did with the Romulans. Instead of having the Romulan Star Empire, they went Romulan Republic Despite fan requests for the Romulan star empire. Again I lean to the direction that was based on the decision to keep every faction on the same one track.
> From the lore point of view, the cardassians lost allot more then a home world being bombarded. If you catch the dialog during DS9, it was not uncommon for the Dominion to sacrifice huge numbers of cardassian troops on a whim. Also from a sto lore point of view, from what I read, they have dismantled there military leaving it in a weak defensive stance only. Again from a sto point of view of lore, the original races of the KDF actually made some sense. The Gorn are the product of Klingon conquest. In other lore the Klingons have used the orions before sto. Nassicans are mercenaries, and in any war mercenaries are hired by one side or the other. The Letheans I dont know.
>
> From a game perspective I get what your saying, and I do realize with any game, they have to put the resources where it do the most good. The KDF has been odd ball from the start. Sometimes I wish all players could see the KDF at launch, I think they would be shocked to say the least. Though the old courtyard was the best. Anyways sorry went off topic there. I can not argue with your logic from a game perspective, but I still say it could be a opportunity to do something different.
>
> I may not like the cardassians persay, but even I found the old cardassian union/obsidian order interesting. Unfortunately It looks like the devs will do to them, what they did with the Romulans. Instead of having the Romulan Star Empire, they went Romulan Republic Despite fan requests for the Romulan star empire. Again I lean to the direction that was based on the decision to keep every faction on the same one track.
There was at least one Lethean serving in the KDF in a DS9 episode, I don’t remember which one
Realistically, the best way of getting the Cardassians in the game would have been through their own faction. It could have been a nice and deep story about them rebuilding what they've lost during the past 40 years and wanting to stand on their own again. In the political theater, they'd get support from the KDF in order to loosen the Federation's domain and the Federation would be lenient because they'd have the need to reallocate their resources to all the war efforts these days, so not having to invest starships and personnel to patrol and protect Cardassia would be beneficial to them in a certain way.
Hell, given Crpyic's lack of manpower or interest to develop any factions, they could have combined the Romulans and Cardassians into a single fully separate faction when the LoR expansion was released. Given their cooperation in the past (DS:9) and considering they're both devastated and in turmoil on the borders of two huge factions at war, it would have made perfect sense. And we'd have a third faction that is more diverse and can gather a playerbase to at least equal the KDF. (The Romulans are at 11% and the Klingons at 18% as per Cryptic's own statistics). But yeah, that's only a pipe-dream considering they have issues in managing more than 1 faction in this game.
I mean, look at the new Jem'Hadar faction. Sure, I love the purple, I like playing rough around the edges and more brutal factions in MMOs and they'll fit my KDF nicely. But they're supposed to be a "faction", yet they start at lvl 60 and have what, 6 missions announced? Compare that to the Romulans. LoR was released in 2013 and 5 years later I'm just happy I can finally play a proper Cardassian in a Cardassian ship I don't have to gamble to get. In such circumstances, it is up to us to create the flavor we need and just be happy that they still provide the tools to do so. So, in a situation like that, restricting anything the other faction has, especially if the restriction is not on the Federation side, just adds to the imbalance of the existing factions.
Your points are pretty valid actually, the Klingons did attack the Union unprovoked in DS:9 so there's bound to be some bad blood between them. It's just that the game is what it is, which is basically a single experience and I don't want to give Cryptic any more excuses to not make something we ask of them on the KDF side if they can't replicate it on the Fed side. Case in point, the Dahar Master overcoat we've been begging for since I don't remember when and it's still not made availible in the C-Store for Klingon players.
I do understand what your saying. One thing though I hope they give you cardassians the interiors from the episodes already in game. Those cardassian ship interiors were pretty darn good in those episodes.
Dont get me wrong, it was a though, doubt anything will come of it. If nothing comes of it oh well, ill keep playing the game the most klingon way I can, even if they set the dialog up like a bleeding fed.
I have to agree with this to a degree, I have had the same impression on more than one occasion.
Then again, it couild just be Cryptic's inability to handle games that have multiple factions. Even the KDF was a train-wreck since the beginning, Stahl managed to rectify some of that in LoR and got blasted from the command seat of STO for it. It can just be their lack of will, vision, finances, manpower or know-how (most of the people working are not familiar with the base code of the game - as per their own admission) to manage a multi-faction game, or all of the above.
In a perfect world (pun not intended), we'd have a 4 faction game with Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire & Cardassian Union - all the major and well developed powers of known space. Heck, I was looking forward to a proper Romulan faction back in 2013 and the possibility of a 3-way PvP in Ker'rat and such, stealthy hunting Romulans while they stealthy hunt Feds. and the potential fun of such a carnage and game dynamics, but we got stuck with these Romulans lite.
I hope they do, I mean - the assets are already there, they just need to re-use them. It's something that has already been made, so I hope they give us that at least.
The irony here being that the game has always felt waaay more Klingon than Fed. Even with the later bleeding heart narrative, the core of the game and the way events unfold and play out fits the Klingon way of dealing with issues way more that Starfleet's. I always found it more natural to play as a Klingon in STO than as a Fed. for those reasons.
I can see where you get that vibe. It was quite a bit more combative, even though much of the story writing was **** for approaching Klingon dialogue(Temporal Shenanigans arcs, Delta arc, Iconian arc). It also didn't help that those who wrote the stories for those arcs ended up slapping the butcher's bill on the Klingons, most likely to corral them onto the cattle cars headed to the Federation's waiting bed. Throw in Geko's loathing of anything that isn't blueside(as Goodbrother @patrickngo can verify).
In order to have a game with multiple factions, there would need to be a dev "checks and balances" team for faction development. I don't remember if City of Heroes/City of Villains had one while under the helm of Cryptic many years ago, or if it manifested when Paragon Studios took over(guess where the combat system for melee came from!), but I saw the clown fiesta of what happened in Warhammer Online, when the devs were all biased towards Order side, save for one dev, who was for Destruction side.
I wonder how some of the other multi-faction MMOs such as The Secret World and Elder Scrolls Online are holding up...
Jem'Hadar will be a militant version of the Salvation Army, or KetracelPeace.
Well, World of Warcraft's next expansion is "Battle of Azeroth" which brings back the focus on Alliance vs. Horde.
SW:ToR's next expansion is announced to be Republic vs. Empire focused.
What that means and how their expansions will hold up we have yet to see, but the sheer fact that at least 2 major MMORPGs (one of which is the largest MMORPG in history) have decided to revert back to faction vs. faction focus and story-lines, especially after both of them were doing sort of what STO is doing in terms of unified story-lines and activities for the factions, is pretty telling by itself.
I do believe that faction vs. faction focus expands the longevity of MMOs and creates player loyalty and retention far better than MMOs without multiple factions. Just a personal opinion.
This I agree. The story is more Klingon in flavor. But the writing inside the game, it is not.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I can agree with shpoks and where2r1
Going back to what patrick said. The game is too far gone to roll everything into one faction now, it would be a logistical nightmare to try. This being said, and this will never happen, they could spend the next two years making things right. Make each of the five factions independent with there own story arc. Afterwards, every year from that point, they dedicate the content of that year to one of the five factions. The fly in the ointment is you can kiss all that voice acting good bye permanently if they would even attempt such a feat.
So like I said before ill take what we got. This game is still highly unique for having customization for both ground and space combat. You also get to control full blown starships, another unique trait. I do long for the old days when I rewatch this trailer.....
Oh, don't get me wrong, I know that regarding STO what I said is even less than e pipe-dream. I was just talking in terms of "how it should be/could be" or what I think would have been better in the long run, for the game and players alike.
I'm not hallucinating that somehow after all these years they'll just decide do split the factions and create more of them out of the blue, or even attempt to gain content parity and diversity for Klingons and Romulans. Like you said - what we have is what we get, and it's a unified story-line going forwards, just as it has been ever since after LoR.
For STO to change this policy and devote an expansion to faction vs. faction focus and developing the unique elements of all sides like the games I mentioned are attempting to do, it would require an earth-shattering shift in the player-base's way of perceiving and playing the game, but the composition of players in STO is waaay too casual for that to happen. The best we can do is use the assets to simulate a proper environment ourselves and possibly utilize the foundry for faction specific content that would seem proper for each faction respectfully.
Finally, had a bit of time. WOW! This game was supposed to be about full out war between Klingons and Federation!! Now, THAT I understand where this game came from...I see what they are trying to mold out of the story. First time I seen that particular trailer.
I don't think war would appeal to the players we have in the game, now, though. Because all they are doing is target practice.
And, more importantly, it won't appeal to the Devs....they are Star Trek fans. They are not there to work on some tangent of Klingon / Federation War. This next expansion it is a very clear view of what is going on....from the voice acting to the redesign of DS9. The Devs want a complete recreation of Star Trek DS9....retelling a story in their way. Stuff of Star Trek Fan fantasies.
And the Hur'q turn into a scary space bug from a horror movie....circa 1950's or so. Less scary than an ancient enemy....a civilization with the technology to travel the stars, with a singular mindset to take over huge swaths of the known universe. And they got a cookbook titled: How To Serve Humans....and Klingons and other....
Interesting to note: Star Trek Discovery started on this same tangent. I wonder how long before audiences see that "happy alliance" thinking rearing its head over there. Though, they don't traditionally do that with soap operas....there are always two sides plotting against each other.
But you never know: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Cue that Borg attack.... I am sure the FX and costumes on the Borg will be spectacular and intricate and bloody.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Correction: They are Starfleet fans. Another problem I see, is them burning all that coin for celebrity voice acting for what...a few episode missions?
We didn't even really get anything regarding a "Klingon/Federation War" other than some lore blurbs, in the very beginning. And doing a Benny Hill/Scooby Doo chase of an NPC that at a certain point disappeared completely, to be forgotten.
No. Right now, most players are more into target practice against scripted enemies. Nice and safe.
The Hur'q aren't even really that terrifying right now. Giant cicadas currently. About as scary as that Hearts and Minds episode.
not even remotely close to unique, even among star trek games - SFC, BC and legacy (as simplistic as it is) all say 'hi'
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Um...the monster movies from the 1950's weren't that scary, either. But they were supposed to be horror. LOL!
I actually remember seeing one where they used piles of dead cicadas (animated with stop motion, I believe) to make it look like they were over running Earth. I wish I could remember the name. LOL!
Funky role playing is one thing....but don't fall into their line of hostile thinking. We have no need to carry their poisonous attitudes with us here.
Starfleet is part of Star Trek...hence people who are in the Starfleet faction....they are fans of Star Trek.
Just as Klingons are fans of Star Trek.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I still love the old trailers especially the one I posted hehehe.
By all means, go ahead...beat their asses in PvP. It is cathartic and VICTORY uplifts us all.
Acting like contemptible crybabies, however, does nothing but bring us down.
Let the those folks keep that for themselves. And laugh at them, for looking like donkeys.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin