Champions Onslaught Mechanic for PvP "Pre-Set Ships" in STO

where2r1

I have been reading a few articles about this.....since Borticus mentioned it in his Reddit post....

And it seems that this mechanic (which allows for players in Champions Online to use special pre-created Super Villain characters) could be ADAPTED to make pre-set up Ships for PvP in Star Trek Online?

The nice thing is: it wouldn't have to be "Vanilla" or "Low Level" ships. I mean, come on...SUPER Villains doesn't sound watered down to me. Devs need only set the special PvP ships with things that are counter able, or whatever is considered "balanced" in PvP.

New players to PvP would not have to acquire increasingly expensive and rare DOFFs, Gear, Traits, Specializations, Rep, whatever.....to participate in PvP either.

Articles I have read, and thought helped...though there are plenty out there:

https://www.mmorpg.com/champions-online/interviews/get-ready-to-unleash-your-inner-villain-1000010007

https://create.piktochart.com/output/7991688-champions-online-supervillain-onslaught <-- I had to open this one in Firefox.

Maybe someone who has played Champions Online could expand on this, too.

I am leaving this here for discussion.
I need to do my Klingon lessons....so, don't start up with arguing.

where2r1

Totally off course, Patrickngo.

Not Onslaught battle instances where players are using their own characters fighting against other players being Super Vilians, like Champions. But something like: Super Villains vs. Super Villains....both sides being players.

Use of the Onslaught mechanics to create the pre-set PvP Ship/characters. This will put aside the individual character's traits, gear, specializations, etc....as long as one is doing PvP inside the "onslaught-type" instances.

But you will be fighting each other in, hopefully, similar gear....set up in advance by the Devs do battle inside the "onslaught-type" instances. Which means anyone who wants to PvP can....because everyone should be in equal footing.

Kerrat will still be Kerrat, PvP queues will still be PvP queues....and players can still use all the latest and greatest crazy builds inside those.

As long as players have the time to grind for those tokens to "rent time" to get into one of these pre-set up ships for PvP....whether for challenges, practice or testing. OR pay for the tokens to get into it. Cryptic can make money on it. It will be DIFFERENT than the "selling power creep".

It might be easier to keep track of player progression inside these types of instances, too.

I am thinking they would have to start with 1vs1 at first to get ranking. And, obviously, iron out bugs, look for errors in character builds, what types of characters are needed....etc.

Maybe segregate PvP into white/green/blue/etc.. or beginner/advanced/elite and have players work up to each level by #of tokens spent or how many matches they win inside the system or something like that. As you "level" up in the rankings, you have access to higher profile characters...etc...(for more tokens?).

OK...already....I am taking this WAY too FAR already.... inside my head.

I am even seeing Faction Specific Ships in this system if it gets popular. LOL!

where2r1

Where in the HELL did ALL this come from????

where2r1

Well...as usual....Kael is not paying attention in his own Official Forums. But then who the hell IS paying attention to this over here. LOL! @ambassadorkael#6946

But he did ASK PvP players to comment over here:
https://pc.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/89i2ml/new_technology_for_renegades_regret_good_for_pvp/

where2r1

OMFG.... Did Renegade's Regret tonight......that was the WORST set up on a ship EVER. EVER. LOL! I was cracking up laughing.

I am going to have to go with you Patrickngo.....
I have HIGH doubts after seeing this mission and ship set up the Devs are going to get it right.

And I am extremely dubious they can pull off pre-set configurations for a decent PvP ship and have both sides on equal footing, level playing field, balanced, anything.

Matter of fact.... WORST idea ever for them to use this system for anything in this game.
But to tick the players off. They can use it to do that, that is for sure.

+++++++++++++

I am sitting there going....I only see about 5 abilities in Row 2....rest of the tray is empty?

Hit "P" open list....OK...THERE are some abilities in the lists...BUT I can't move them from the ability listing to the tray? Huh? AT LEAST the OLD way I could adjust the tray abilities to where I was used to.

Start scrolling through rows. Found everything is in Row 1 and Row 2. Which I have to set up. Normally, I am using Row 2 through Row 5 (5 is vertical). Row 1 is my weapons only and I use the number keys when I need to. Auto fire on everything but Experimental Weapon, anyways, so I am rarely clicking buttons.

Looks like if you are using something OFF from the norm as your usual set up...you will get messed up when you get transferred into pre-set character. And messed up again when you get transferred back to the normal character.

Why don't I have any heals?? Turns out: why would I need them? The NPC ships in the just fell down in front of me. I just had to point the nose of my ship in the general direction. Didn't have to hit a key...the weapons were firing without me making a key stroke. I had my feet up on my desk, and just used my mouse.

Beams and cannons mixed up, I had a turret, I am not sure what the second one in the rear was? A beam? It was so wacky....I can't even picture it in my head, now. If it was a beam in the rear, it must have never ever fired at all.

I had lock trajectory on my tray???? WHAT??? Where is that coming from?

BUT it doesn't matter WHAT is in the tray...nothing in the tray works. NOTHING....because somehow the ship is on AUTOMATIC....except for me making sure the nose of the ship is on point. Which is my life in a BoP...soooo, yeah, it was nothing for me to do this.

It didn't look like I had anything that special set up wise. But if I even glanced their direction....it was dead....LONG GONE. I have no idea how I was doing this...I can NEVER do this....I don't even WANT to do this. It was boring. Which is why I gimp my gear.

I am going to have to pay attention to what level the gear on the Neth Parr ship was, next time. Next week. I am going to collect the specialization point box, again. And I will do it, again, on my throw away character that I don't care about...and clear his space tray on his BoP first. And set it to Row 1-3.

where2r1

I have a quote in my siggy that says, "If you're going to fail, fail spectacularly."
This would totally apply here.....to my idea as well as to Cryptic's trial.

Without a lot of adjustments to this Onslaught system...it will not work for PvP much less for STO.

where2r1

And no, I have NOT finished going through the points in your 2 posts in the other thread, yet, Patrickngo.

I am about a third of the way through it. Your 2 posts together is, like, 4 pages long in Doc.

where2r1

Duplicate

where2r1

Copy of duplicate

where2r1

Anyone still paying attention to this? Because I got more stuff in my head about this. But, not sure if anyone over here cares. LOL!

where2r1

Go read Cannonshop1 over on STO Reddit...

Now THAT is someone who really thought it all out...
Holy TRIBBLE can that guy write a rant? Or what?

OH... I forgot, video game people don't like to read such long posts....
Too bad... here's the link....if you dare.

https://pc.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/89i2ml/new_technology_for_renegades_regret_good_for_pvp/dwuu9fv/

where2r1

BAD ship build used...that is only the beginning of the problems, Coldnapalm.

Take a look at what is happened so far: with the Onslaught mechanics the way it is set up now on STO for this FE... it is not good for PvP at all...barely usable for PvE.

Players are having problems with auto targeting/auto firing, because those options are locked away from us while in this mode.

Primary Specializations are supposedly NOT working after returning to "normal". YEA...at least we now know THAT can be turned off...somewhere in the code.

Players are unable to MOVE THE ABILITIES around the tray at all while in this mode. I don't know if macros or alternate Keybinds work in this mode either. Players used to certain abilities tied to specific rows....or just even location and used to it "being in that spot"...can't move anything into those set up rows.

For example: I always place cloak button on the top right corner. It is there on every character on every ship.

Not only that...have you tried getting any of those abilities on the Shuk-din tray to do anything???? Well...as strong as they MADE that ship in the first place....you don't need buffs, you don't need heals. But still I would like to see some sort of RESPONSE when I hit buttons in the tray. LOL!

Take a closer look next time you do this FE.

where2r1

Not to mention... can't even SEE the Stations, active DOFFs or the GEAR on that ship.
If they are slotting Traits for this set up...you can't see those either. Devices etc... blah blah blah...

Competitive Rep Batteries....anyone use those??? I think they disengage all Player everything including inventory...so what is the point of having even made those?? LOL!

It may be LESS work to make double stats....one for PvE and PvP....on existing gear.
BUT...would someone over there even know WHAT needs a tweak?

where2r1

coldnapalm wrote: »

Yeah...I liked the story of the FE enough.

I did not mind the story, either. It seemed simplistic though.... so I think they DID this JUST to bring this "Onslaught" mechanic over to STO.

But to what end? I have no clue. And it makes me worry....because there is sooo much work that needs to be done on it... I feel they will get it to "something passable" and then quit.

where2r1

coldnapalm wrote: »

Because lets face it, they don't WANT PvP fixed. They just want whatever meta build they are rolling to be top dog and anything that beats it needs to be nerfed...loudly and vocally so that PvP gets blamed when it does get nerfed.

Have you taken a glance at how much equipment they have to buy or grind for to even get to the point they CAN do PvP now?? Even the "high DPS" PvE stuff. Not just grind...they have to FIND it TO buy it. You know what I mean???

It is insane how much resources have to go into it. Of course, they don't want to see anything changed. No one wants to see all their efforts lose its value.

The problem is: it will....with the next "set" or lockbox that comes along....what every 3 months or so? And new Fleet Holding every few years. I am sure they see that, right? They HAVE TO be seeing it coming.

where2r1

@frtoaster Have you done this mission, yet?

ikonn

I play Champions Online and I can tell you that the Onslaught System is, in spirit, a good thing. However, many of the players who take part in being the “villain” just stand in Millennium City and let the heroes pound on them with their energy builder powers, giving those heroes free tokens over time. Once the “villain timer” runs out, someone else uses their own villain token and the process starts again. The former villain is now one of the heroes and can get their tokens as well.

TLDR; the system is being exploited constantly by people announcing in zone chat “Passive OV in Ren Cen Zone #”

where2r1

ixionveridian wrote: »

I play Champions Online and I can tell you that the Onslaught System is, in spirit, a good thing. However, many of the players who take part in being the “villain” just stand in Millennium City and let the heroes pound on them with their energy builder powers, giving those heroes free tokens over time. Once the “villain timer” runs out, someone else uses their own villain token and the process starts again. The former villain is now one of the heroes and can get their tokens as well.

TLDR; the system is being exploited constantly by people announcing in zone chat “Passive OV in Ren Cen Zone #”

Of course. What point would there be in playing a game, if it wasn't for free TRIBBLE. :::sarcasm:::

What a strange generation of people we have.

where2r1

coldnapalm wrote: »

That's the thing...PvP in a casual should not require all that. Which is why I keep advocating for stock PvP ships only...or at the least stock PvP equipment that are super cheap to buy at a vendor that must be used for PvP. But nobody wants a working PvP system in this game so we can have the broken rubbish we have now.

Well, in a preset ship situation....you CAN have SOME of that. Because that is the stuff that makes things a challenge. How do to get around this? What works?

Immunity should have NEVER been put in this game. Because there is no penalty that is severe enough to NEED immunity for. You don't die or stay dead for any length of time. You are capable of healing your injuries immediately, you can even carry the repair kits on you. So, really what is the point?

And then letting people use immunity over and over and over...is insanity. The lock out on immunity should be closer to 15 minutes not 15 seconds. Make people think if the situation warrants the use.

That is the problem. They are not letting the players use their brains. Players need to think their way out of trouble...that is what makes games interesting. That is why PvP is interesting to me...it is a puzzle. How do you fix this mess?

coldnapalm wrote: »

As for the second part...you would think so...but no. They don't. Even when pointed flat out in front of their face...nope.

They must not be spending their own money? Or they have accumulated "space wealth" to the point of nothing better to do with it.

STO at its core level...is a very good game. People would play without being tricked into doing it.

The current set of managers are pursuing the lowest common denominator, though....the fast buck. And not building for the long term any more. I think most of them want to opt out...but their own fanaticism holds them back.

where2r1

Participation rewards....

The teachings of the past decade or two, everyone deserves to be treated equally. Actually, it is being pushed on to us over time and from every direction.

And, people of today lean toward easy pay outs for little effort. And reject being shown where they rank in comparison.

Geez...hence can be manipulated to participating in anything that they understand as having a reward...even if it is by doing something they don't really like doing. Even if it has to be repeated.

It does nothing to actually elevate them to grow or show who they are. And takes away their will to work toward being independent.

The whole game is built on this, now. LOL!

where2r1

ixionveridian wrote: »

I play Champions Online and I can tell you that the Onslaught System is, in spirit, a good thing. However, many of the players who take part in being the “villain” just stand in Millennium City and let the heroes pound on them with their energy builder powers, giving those heroes free tokens over time. Once the “villain timer” runs out, someone else uses their own villain token and the process starts again. The former villain is now one of the heroes and can get their tokens as well.

TLDR; the system is being exploited constantly by people announcing in zone chat “Passive OV in Ren Cen Zone #”

"There is no honor among thieves"

I have been thinking about this aspect of the "Onslaught System" this morning...well, and this applies to rewards in STO, over all. People exploit systems (and each other, for that matter) for in game currency without a qualm. Obviously, honor system doesn't work when everyone will exploit anything at a drop of a hat.

PvP rewards got hit the hardest in STO...whether one believes it is direct hatred of PvP by a particular Lead or not. Let's just stick with the fact that: rewards are gone in PvP because the entire system is designed to be rife with abuse.

Cryptic won't listen to alarm from players....especially when some players complain without any verification. But they can see for themselves, from experience of the "Onslaught System" in Champions, what is coming if they bring this to our space dock. Right?

Or are they as blind as players not expecting nerfs, immediately followed by buffs??

There are other games with PvP....how do they handle this? They can't possibly allow players kill off "stooges for profit" and still have good PvP. Can they?

where2r1

vIyajbe' ....I do not understand...what you mean by: reward more difficult tasks....when used with PvP? Isn't it all the same task?

Also, expand on: "have reward systems that reflect that, along with mechanics to prevent it."

"PvP has rewards structured like PvE, which is to say, rewarded for merely participating, but PvP (good PvP) doesn't work that way"

OK, wait...

PvE rewards = participation......if you participate, you get a gift.
(They have that screwed up in STO, too...in certain ways....but not going to go there)

PvP rewards = what are you not saying? What am I not getting?

I am going to review the rant I saved over in Docs I never finished responding to, to see if there is a clue in there. Though I think most of that was going off on Borticus.

where2r1

LOL! Thinking. Duh.

PvP rewards = thinking.

I must be tired...over thinking it. LOL!