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How are holdings contributions handled in your fleet?
peterconnorfirst
Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
Hey folks,
since we had a few discussions around here as to how contributions are supposed to be handled I became a bit curious on topic and would like to find out how contributions actually are handled in the fleets you are currently in.
If you are in multiple fleets please vote for the one you considered to be the most important one to you. If you happen to be the leader of a fleet simply answer the poll from the perspective of your players.
Any further information as to how long you have been in your fleet, if you look at more or less equal contributions on leaderboard or how things were in your previous fleets (or guilds in other games) are highly appreciated. Feel free to discuss too if you like.
I thank you for your participation in advance and wish you all a peaceful Christmas season.
-Connor
since we had a few discussions around here as to how contributions are supposed to be handled I became a bit curious on topic and would like to find out how contributions actually are handled in the fleets you are currently in.
If you are in multiple fleets please vote for the one you considered to be the most important one to you. If you happen to be the leader of a fleet simply answer the poll from the perspective of your players.
Any further information as to how long you have been in your fleet, if you look at more or less equal contributions on leaderboard or how things were in your previous fleets (or guilds in other games) are highly appreciated. Feel free to discuss too if you like.
I thank you for your participation in advance and wish you all a peaceful Christmas season.
-Connor
How are holdings contributions handled in your fleet? 65 votes
I’m completely free to contribute to our holdings and don’t need to if I want to get promoted in fleet.
52%
34 votes
I’m free to contribute to our holdings but need to if I want to get promoted in fleet.
47%
31 votes
I’m required to contribute to our holdings or I get thrown out of my fleet.
0%
0
Comments
So it's sort of a mixture of options 1 and 2, in that donations are required, but only to a point.
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Yea I think the way you describe it is really more of a mix than either strict choice between 1 and 2. I thought about separating into more poll options but decided against it in order not to make things overcomplicated. Just for the poll I think it to be ok if you go the strict route and choose 2 even if the requirement is very small in the lower ranks, or just some sort of safety percussion from your fleet.
In any case thank you very much for the reply.
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Newer members must donate a small volume to be eligible for the stores etc (simply to prove their are not joining to raid the bank/provisions straight away), it's essentially a safety feature like a sort of probationary period system.
But to get promoted within the fleet usually is more to do with volunteer roles and helping out in other ways (volunteering time, running events, attending tournaments, helping on the website etc). Promotions above the basic ranks are not directly tied to donations in that way.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Sure thing and this poll is not aimed at to judge anybody. Since some players here pointed out that member of a fleet have no real reassurances when investing into the holdings that “belong” to somebody else as “owner” of a fleet (and perhaps use this as reason not to contribute at all) a career based contribution model is pretty much the only reassurance a fleet commander can offer and make use of.
Thanks for the explanation, same counts for @lordsteve1 .
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Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
I must stress that the fleet is for casual players, but I won't operate a 'something for nothing policy'. Between my 8 toons, I have contributed more than the rest of the fleet combined (About 70 million).
Another Fleet I am in though is extortionate in their first rank req's, it being 100k just to access stores and can be a pain to find something to contribute to in the first place.
My understanding is: promotion level is tied to permissions set specifically for each person and all their character(s) are set to that.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I switched it to be this way after a really bad experience playing on XBOX. The fleet had a contribution requirement. I met it. But it took me almost two weeks to catch a leader on in order to ask for a promotion. He told me, “I will put you on the list for the promotion party this Friday.” Friday came. I logged on and only to find I had been kicked out of the fleet instead of promoted! I wasn’t the only one. Apparently this fleet’s MO was recruiting people, extorting donations with a promise of promotion, and giving them the boot before they could actually use any provisions. I eventually had to find another fleet and go through the process all over again before my XBOX toon could purchase fleet gear. And with XBOX having a smaller player base, a lot of mandatory mic requirements (which I don’t use on console), and an extremely cumbersome text chat system (think old phones with a turn dial), it took me nearly two months to get settled, meet requirements, and purchase actual gear.
Eventually, I came back to my PC account with a newfound respect for how frustrating it can be for new players looking to break into the fleet system and how not being able to access fleet gear can stymie player progress in the upper levels and endgame min/maxing. So, I went on a recruiting spree and changed how things were run in my fleet: No contribution requirements, instant access to stores, no mic requirements. New members get their promotion right away. In fact, no arbitrary rules at all except “no drama and no robbing the bank.”
The lack of rules presents its own challenges: you have to have the bank permissions and settings locked down tight; you have to monitor chat for trolls and kick them as soon as you see them; you have to take a more holistic approach to promoting someone to a leadership position. Instead of a random contribution requirement we now give out leadership positions based on how much a player helps his or her fleetmates, how skilled he or she is in PVE/PVP, willingness to monitor holdings, completing the game and side content, and general ability to moderate discussions and encourage cooperative play. Contributions are considered as a reason for promotion, but they are not the deciding factor. Helping new players is the most important thing we consider.
Now, the fleet is growing every day, so much that we’ve expanded into building an armada as an alpha. Projects get filled faster than we can slot them. And most importantly, it’s not just one or two members dumping all the dilithium. Why? I think it’s because new members aren’t just shooting for the bare minimum contribution requirement and then never donating again. People want to play the game, not punch a clock and answer to a boss. You can help your new members play the game how they want to play it by enabling them to purchase gear, not by requiring them to submit to a hegemonic power structure. If they feel more like a citizen than a slave they will realize they have a stake in the fleet and become proactive concerning its progression and stewardship. And I’m now finding that this sort of attitude takes a lot of work off my plate as the fleet leader.
My old fleet required contributions to advance, and while I liked the idea at first.. I ended up thinking it was counter productive. You could try and help new players, run missions with the fleet, even recruit for them.. but if you needed your resources for your own improvements, then you couldn't advance in the fleet. It kind of makes you feel bad for helping yourself and I ended up resenting that logic.
I like a simple system.. be nice to everyone, help when you can and try and be a good fleetmate. That's all that should ever be required IMO.
This you put into words my feelings. I cant get words right all the time, but you have hit the nail on the head right here.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
None of the above. Full rank and store access on join. Contributions optional. Colony T4 in 7 days from now, so it seems to work ok
Can confirm - nikephorus is in in the Best Fleet ;p Buy all the things!
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ultimately I consider that material donations shouldn't be the desiding factor for fleet promotions. That gives the impression (maybe unintentionally) that it's about bribing your way to the top.
a) register your toon on the fleet website for instant access
b) wait 14 days for promotion without any contributions
c) make 50K in contributions
Original intent was to avoid the issue of having somebody join, gear up, and then leave, combined with having to contribute just a little so as to not get something for nothing. We always have projects open and for new players at least they would probably need at least 50K or more to get their gear anyways.
It's all very casual and random acts of kindness and participation are noticed and would result in a "close enough and congratulations" even if below 50K. Once a member's main achieves any of the above their alts are welcome and would receive the same rank upon joining. Everybody is treated very fairly, extended absences due to RL are honored, and the chances are you won't have to ask for a promotion when one of the above criteria are met as it's my responsibility to check frequently so usually same day
Pre-2014 the leader boards were quite even with members donating quite a bit to build up holdings. You're supposed to lead by example so was at or near the top of most during that period but folks were amazingly generous and enthusiastic and worked very hard. This trend reversed itself with a pretty steep curve between 2014 and now to the extent that a few officers and myself almost soloed the last fed holding (K-13) as well completing any remaining KDF holdings on our own. This trend looks similar in some other fleets I'm in. The build ethos and engagement of prior times doesn't seem to be what it was, and this includes another fleet I'm in that actively recruits and stays near the member cap whereas my numbers have varied from half cap to about 150 members.
The only other thing I could add is although there's no zero pressure to contribute, when I first joined the fed portion of the fleet I currently lead there was some gentle encouragement to queue up for something each time you log on so as to be able to contribute a little regularly but it was done in a polite way.
Fed fleet was founded in April 2012 with all holdings completed for quite some time, with the KDF fleet following in August 2012 with it's Star Base reaching T5 earlier this year being the final step to reaching Level 65.
While @seaofsorrows and @spiritborn described how we handle it in OCD Fleets I can certainly see the benefits of encouraging players to contribute over promotions to be received. From what I can fathom we talk about really minor contributions here being in line what players would want to get anyway from fleet over the earned credits. It’s cool to see that virtually all fleets offer their players such a positive and grind free game surrounding.
As you can imagine I’m particularly glad that nobody saw the need to go for option three. Even though only a few dozen gave their votes in this poll I think this is still a representative sum to conclude that basically no fleet forces their members to contribute. Even if few do this thread should show all players that there are plenty enough cool fleets as alternative around.
I’m grateful for that.
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The real issue I think is with Dilithium, I just always need it so I rarely contribute it to the fleet. Sometimes I do, and wish I could contribute more, I just alway seem to need it for something. For me, I use it for upgrades and as a primary source of EC income (flipping keys.) It can be kind of hard to part with sometimes.
Yea that is perfectly understandable. Dil is something every player needs the most and which remains a highly limiting factor for everybody.
It is a major disappointment that cryptic chooses this to be the major demand for the stupid new fleet holding. We are two months into it and dropping the Dil to Zen ratio is not at all what we saw as result. This is clearly about having those who feel responsible for a fleet pay for it over RL money just as the balance check of S13 was to have performance players to rebuy their space builds.
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As I said in OC chat I've been in guilds (though not STO fleets) where it felt like the sole purpose of the guild for existing was to benefit a small cabal of people.
By having the material contributions be the sole arbiter for guild/fleet rankings or worse if you're allowed to stay in the guild/fleet the first place is good way of giving the impression that the guild/fleet is only for the "high paying members" and the rest are there only to give resources to those "high payers" and that's a quick and easy way to shatter the guild as no-one wants to feel like they're the pay master for other people's fun without the any benefit to themselves.
The good idea in star trek fleets: you contribute, you get the credits to buy the good items...otherwise you don't get them! (Even some prices should be lowered in my opinion).
In my fleet contributions are free and we all contribute according to our possibilities.
Our leader is a very good one and works a lot, so that's the least we can do to help him with projects.
Out there there are some leaders who queue projects "just for them to fill with their fleet marks"....and they leave expensive povisions like dilithium to be done by other members...THAT is a very bad behaviour for example.
If you want to use fleet stores...that might be another story. Some fleets do ask to donate some amount of X to holdings which makes sense. At same time some other fleets do not care and might give you temporary or even total access to stores with no requirements.
There are lots of flavors of fleets out there and if you are in one you feel you are asked too much feel free to PM me.
Some have 100% access to all on joining.
Some expect a small token of contributions to show you mean well before further access is unlocked.
Some demand crazy high and constant contributions in order to not get kicked or have access to stores.
Some have systems whereby promotions and access are more linked with social interaction and participation, not financial contribution.
So I don’t think we can really get an accurate picture. But it’s interesting to see people’s ciews at least.