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What do you think? The Colony Fleet Holding

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User
    Not saying 5 is bad but could have been the same XP as in the Reputation 5 Tiers, you know 5, 15, 32.5, 60, 100. Still 5 Tiers but the overall XP is equivalent to 4 Tiers of the Main Starbase Sub-Holdings. The Fleet has a STARBASE (core item) with Holdings. This Colony is not another Holding but really just the equivalent of another STARBASE.

    Who said anything about finishing it quickly, not I.

    You are taking the word 'Provisioning' too literally. I'm not talking about Provisions but the overall total of resources needed to complete the Colony. Provisions themselves are easier here, actually giving you Fleet Credits in return, rather than the throwaway of Fleet Credits for the Provisions of the other Holdings. After Tier I of the Sub-Holdings here they just about fill themselves up automatically.

    Yeah, I think I know what continuous means, and again you are taking words too literally. When the Phoenix Prize Pack Event first appeared many believed it was an event that would occur once or maybe twice a year. We've had four with a possibility of a fifth before year's end. In fact, your list just shows that the last one was thrown in deliberately only two months after the previous one, with NO new stuff added (like the ISS Stadi) just to suck Dilitium out of the Economy before the new 'Holding' dropped.

    As far as the 'Fuffy' add-ons, I have no idea when they dropped for the Starbase as I wasn't here at that stage. Doesn't negate the fact that dropping another sink when the first sink just dropped is heavy handed for underwhelming 'foof'. For the price of this thing we should have had all the bells and whistles included.

    As far as 'work', this shouldn't be work.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • runlevelzer0runlevelzer0 Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    > @warpangel said:
    > unotetsu wrote: »
    >
    > I like that we can use hoverboards, but I would LOVE to be able to use the jetpacks!
    >
    >
    >
    > My thoughts exactly. There's also a place under the building where the hoverboard falls through the water like a hole and then it teleports you away.
    >
    > Otherwise it's awesome.

    It would be great if we could get a few jump ramps for the boards too.
  • runlevelzer0runlevelzer0 Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    I'm curious to try some of the beam weapons, tac consoles, an the Kentari BOffs.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User
    Knowing this crew, Ramps would end up being a 200k Dilitium Upgrade.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • ixionveridianixionveridian Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    Plywood ramps- 200k dilithium

    To upgrade to Fiberglass ramps- 400k dilithium

    To upgrade to Carbon-fiber composite ramps- 800k dilithium

    To upgrade to Carbon-fiber composite ramps (with neon lighting)- 1.6 million dilithium

    To change the color of the neon lighting (base color is yellow)- 200k dilithium

    For each upgrade, the previous version must be purchased in order for the next upgrade to become available.
    -WB- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -WB- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / Project Phoenix
    Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
  • aoav160aoav160 Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    That explains why morale is so "high" at the Colony World. The Tier II Morale Upgrade has poppies growing.
    5OkN8UZ.png
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,403 Arc User
    aoav160 wrote: »
    That explains why morale is so "high" at the Colony World. The Tier II Morale Upgrade has poppies growing.
    5OkN8UZ.png
    The Tier 4 morale projects has shuttles that fly to and from the colony world. It's actually pretty cool to see.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User
    Increase the Morale of the Colony while decreasing the Morale of the donators in keeping with the Defari's Balance.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,403 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Increase the Morale of the Colony while decreasing the Morale of the donators in keeping with the Defari's Balance.
    Maybe in your fleet, but everyone in the one i'm in has been perfectly happy to donate. We actually have to fight each other to get our stuff in because it fills up so quickly.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User
    I was happy to donate, trying to fill things up first, be the top of the Leaderboard for the Research Lab, K-13, and now the Colony. Rushing to 'mine' Provisions multiple times per day over a few Characters until they started filling up on their own. By the time the Colony's Sub-Holdings reached Tier III and required over 40k Dilitium per Level each, my enthusiasm waned.

    There are really only two of us, over multiple Characters that have been donating to the Colony, the Chief of Staff and myself. So, I donate sporadically, run the Race once a day, fill up Boffs Assignments and Admiralty on a couple of Characters.

    Since I purchased the Mordor Expansion for LOTRO over the summer, I decided at the end of October to devote time there after over three years away. There is a ton of stuff to catch up on and do there. Well, just scaling back STO for now and will eventually reach that Deferi Balance between both when STO gets some new content. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • leoanimaleoanima Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    My observations as the leader of a fleet that went from 0 to max in just under a years time with all holdings. First off- we obviously have a motivated crew just to get all our holdings max'ed in just under a year (great job guys :) ) But then we hit the t4 projects for the new holding and while - yes- the dilithium portion is painful, we expected that and have had people step up to increase their dilithium production to considerably higher levels.

    Here in lies the problem - increasing dilithium production = increasing time demands on players doing activities that really aren't fun or engaging, and this holding already has it's own very deliberate increase on time demands - the colony provisions needed to move projects.

    These provisions take a time commitment from a fairly large percentage of even very active large fleets on-lines. The colony invasion can (and often does) award ~2k of each provisions per type per run, but getting 5 people from your own fleet to run them means you're making 10k per provision type per run - at best - because there is no way to regulate anyone not simply selling them off for EC.

    Again - the real bind here is that you can either work dilithium or provisions, the time to do both isn't feasible for all but the largest fleets for anything past t4 imo. A game shouldn't be a second job, we all expect some drudgery sure, but the vast balance of game play should be fun and engaging, not grinding.

    The dilithium costs are excessive, given that we took a fleet from zero to max in a year doing everything simultaneously - and this holding started taxing our dilithium production ability with t3 daily exp. tasks, but given how much that's been brought up - I don't think anything will be done on that score.

    So - My recommendations for a fix (I see any single one of these as a viable solution, some more then others):
    1) remove the sale value from provisions entirely - or -
    2) remove the sale restrictions from colony provisions and allow them to be sold on the exchange - or -
    3) allow colony provisions to be purchased for Fleet Credits - or -
    4) allow colony provisions to be purchased for Dilithium (at least provides a $$ path forward) - or -
    5) cut the provisions requirements in half - or -
    6) allow other fleets in the armada to contribute to each others coffers - or -
    7) add 250 to each mini-games awards for each Colony Tier completed (maxing at 1k provisions per game).

    Random recommendation:
    If Cryptic could make the sim NPC less of a naysayer, and more inspirational / motivational, I personally would like doing the invasion sim more, he's pretty constantly negative. That NPC's negativity combined with this holdings demotivating requirements is like a 1-2 punch that leaves me personally burned out it, uninspired and caring less and less about this holding.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,403 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    leoanima wrote: »
    5) cut the provisions requirements in half - or -
    This is the most hilarious thing i've read, especially since Cryptic did cut the provision requirements in half from what they were originally going to be.

    Especially when your colony holding can generate thousands of them a day automatically.
  • leoanimaleoanima Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    leoanima wrote: »
    5) cut the provisions requirements in half - or -
    This is the most hilarious thing i've read, especially since Cryptic did cut the provision requirements in half from what they were originally going to be.

    Especially when your colony holding can generate thousands of them a day automatically.

    The attempt at dismissiveness not withstanding -

    The requirements on colony provisions was reduced, however, given the lack of change on dilithium costs, a reduction in grind time is still highly desirable (and it's not going to be coming from the dilithium requirements based on Cryptics lack of response).

    Additionally - thousands of provisions - let's be very clear - with t3 upgrades it's ~3k a day per type, this is roughly half of what the daily exp. projects require, they require thousands more to actually run daily. And it takes ~150 thousand for a single t4 upgrade. T4 dailies only increase that gap, so saying thousands a day is accurate - but if the intent there is to somehow indicate that puts all the provisioning issues on easy mode, that's highly misleading.

    Side note: our fleet has a t4 upgrade slotted currently, the hold up to it starting the count down timer is the colony provisions, everything else is filled. I'm estimating about 10~12 more days before the provisions portion is filled.
  • marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 538 Arc User
    What I think? Its honestly the worst thing Cryptic/PWE has created for STO so far. Its so boring you can just run a macro and step away from your PC for an hour and finish the colony. GG

    We want content, not endless grind TRIBBLE.
  • mcevergreenmcevergreen Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    leoanima wrote: »
    Additionally - thousands of provisions - let's be very clear - with t3 upgrades it's ~3k a day per type, this is roughly half of what the daily exp. projects require, they require thousands more to actually run daily. And it takes ~150 thousand for a single t4 upgrade. T4 dailies only increase that gap, so saying thousands a day is accurate - but if the intent there is to somehow indicate that puts all the provisioning issues on easy mode, that's highly misleading.

    I should have posted the screenshot of the T5 colony upgrade in here. It is correct. The daily amount increases at higher tiers. I have made the calculation earlier, in the German speaking forum. In summary, the auto-generation of provisions does not scale linearly with the daily projects. The gap between the requirements of daily projects and the auto-generation, in other words the provisions which someone needs to farm in mini-games or simulations, increases tier by tier. Thus, you will do more mini-games and more simulations at each tier you gain. In addition, there are the upgrades which will pretty much empty your coffer. But, someone should not forget that this holding is designed to be completed in one year. And in this period of time, the auto-generation will produce a lot of provisions. If you start projects every second day, you do not necessarily need to run simulations. However, if you want to reach T5 faster, then you need to do some extra work. :)

    t5l98oxs.png

  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,403 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    leoanima wrote: »
    The attempt at dismissiveness not withstanding -

    The requirements on colony provisions was reduced, however, given the lack of change on dilithium costs, a reduction in grind time is still highly desirable (and it's not going to be coming from the dilithium requirements based on Cryptics lack of response).

    Additionally - thousands of provisions - let's be very clear - with t3 upgrades it's ~3k a day per type, this is roughly half of what the daily exp. projects require, they require thousands more to actually run daily. And it takes ~150 thousand for a single t4 upgrade. T4 dailies only increase that gap, so saying thousands a day is accurate - but if the intent there is to somehow indicate that puts all the provisioning issues on easy mode, that's highly misleading.

    Side note: our fleet has a t4 upgrade slotted currently, the hold up to it starting the count down timer is the colony provisions, everything else is filled. I'm estimating about 10~12 more days before the provisions portion is filled.
    Dilthium costs were increased to make up for the reduction in provisions. If they reduce Dil costs, they will just raise the number of provisions needed back to what they were previously.

    Also, Cryptic point blank stated in the last Priority One Podcast they have looked at the numbers on fleets, of how many people are in fleets, and how much people donate, and base the fleet holding costs on that, and that based on those numbers, they don't plan on lowering costs. So yes, they HAVE responded on it, you just can't be bothered to actually do research on your own, and expect then to post every single thing they say directly to your inbox.

    And I know how much provisions are needed on higher upgrades, the fleet I am in has T4 main, morale, and infrastructure, and are about 4-5 days away from T4 Renewable Energy, at this point main projects require something like 7,650 provisions, and we get them filled daily, and have coffers well over 100,000 for everything but batteries(due to starting the T4 upgrade project on that just a few days ago)
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User
    Dilitium costs were increased also to offset the reduction in Doff requirements. However, the 100:1 ratio they used when getting rid of Reputation Project Doffs (Elite Scorpions or Elite Tholian Widows) was not used here and was increased to a much higher ratio.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,403 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Dilitium costs were increased also to offset the reduction in Doff requirements. However, the 100:1 ratio they used when getting rid of Reputation Project Doffs (Elite Scorpions or Elite Tholian Widows) was not used here and was increased to a much higher ratio.
    It should be a higher ratio. Provisions are much more expensive then doffs, and as such, should cause a greater increase in dil when converted into dil.

    Worm harder.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User
    'Worm harder'? What the heck are you talking about? I was talking about Doffs NOT Provisions. You seem to be the only person who wants to increase costs for this sink hole.

    In your postings on this or any other Thread you are deliberately antagonistic and insulting to people and misconstrue what they have stated so that you can continue to do so.

    Try harder at being a civil human being.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,341 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    'Worm harder'? What the heck are you talking about? I was talking about Doffs NOT Provisions. You seem to be the only person who wants to increase costs for this sink hole.

    In your postings on this or any other Thread you are deliberately antagonistic and insulting to people and misconstrue what they have stated so that you can continue to do so.

    Try harder at being a civil human being.

    After I began to interpret his post as comedy I have a much better STO forum experience. :D
    animated.gif
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,403 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    'Worm harder'? What the heck are you talking about? I was talking about Doffs NOT Provisions. You seem to be the only person who wants to increase costs for this sink hole.

    In your postings on this or any other Thread you are deliberately antagonistic and insulting to people and misconstrue what they have stated so that you can continue to do so.

    Try harder at being a civil human being.
    I'm perfectly civil to those who act it first.

    And yes, I WAS TALKING ABOUT DOFFS AS WELL. You complained that the 1:100 doff to dil rate, that was used when they got rid of doffs in older rep projects, wasn't used when they retooled the provisions/dil costs for the colony. I pointed out that they wouldn't have used the same ratio since provisions are much more epxensive then doffs overall, thus meaning the dil price should have gone higher. No one misconstrued anything, you just seem seem unable to follow basic English, and apparently don't even know what you yourself wrote.

    Also, I'm made no suggestion that I desire the price to be higher then it is, all I did was explain why the cost is what it is.

    As for the worm harder comment, every comment you have made about the colony project costs has been some petty attempt to try to poorly rationalize why it should be miles cheaper then it is. It's systemic in every post you make about the subject, and whenever anyone at all points out why your arguments don't work, you always avoid responding to it, and just switch to some other topic. It's a state of constant squirming, weaseling, deflecting, and goalpost moving, form one of the biggest whiners on the subject.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User


    If you had read posts in the Tribble Forum when they reduced the Provision requirements and increased Dilitium, the numbers showed that the Dilitium increase was more than what was expected for just the Provisions. As they had also cut and/or eliminated Doff requirements, the actual increase in Dilitium was also attributable to those missing Doffs. However, those extra Dilitium costs for the Doffs were between 300 and 400 per Doff. That is what I was talking about.

    Yes, I do believe this 'HOLDING' should be cheaper than the Starbase itself. That you believe I am one of the biggest whiners on this subject, read harder. When I look to the Forums to see which Threads have new posts, I go to that Forum and go to the end and scroll upward to where the new posts should start. As I scroll up I pass other posts. Some that I see in this backwards scroll before I get to the Poster name, I glance at the content. I can always tell your posts before I see your name.

    Exhibit 3,462

    'As for the worm harder comment, every comment you have made about the colony project costs has been some petty attempt to try to poorly rationalize why it should be miles cheaper then it is. It's systemic in every post you make about the subject, and whenever anyone at all points out why your arguments don't work, you always avoid responding to it, and just switch to some other topic. It's a state of constant squirming, weaseling, deflecting, and goalpost moving, form one of the biggest whiners on the subject.'
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,135 Arc User
    At SRS we run 7 fleets, only one is actually building the colony, the rest are just slotting provision projects. For us it's a fair bit of dil but we'll get there, nearly T4 now. I would not want to start a fleet today that's for sure!
    That certainly was a smart move on your part building a shared armada Colony. So far my Fed and KDF fleets have both reached Tier 3 so about 200K xp worth of holding meaning one could have been at Tier 4 plus. I suggested an armada holding to a number of people but it seems everybody has to have their own, and now most are stalling around Tier 3. Nice planning on your part and wouldn't be surprised if that is what Cryptic had in mind to get the job done. I wouldn't want to be starting a fleet today either!
    ltminns wrote: »
    If you had read posts in the Tribble Forum when they reduced the Provision requirements and increased Dilitium, the numbers showed that the Dilitium increase was more than what was expected for just the Provisions. As they had also cut and/or eliminated Doff requirements, the actual increase in Dilitium was also attributable to those missing Doffs. However, those extra Dilitium costs for the Doffs were between 300 and 400 per Doff.
    I've always found Itminns to be one of the most eloquent and intelligent posters on these forums, with a good dose of dry humour thrown in from time to time. As usual he hits the nail on the head. Far too expensive for my tastes for a variety of reasons that have already been discussed to death, but if done on a large armada shared basis I guess it's priced realistically in a game that has $300 usd starships.



  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,403 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    ltminns wrote: »
    Yes, I do believe this 'HOLDING' should be cheaper than the Starbase itself. '
    This argument isn't valid because the starbase is, itself, a holding. Hence why they are all called FLEET holdings, not STARBASE holdings.
    ltminns wrote: »
    If you had read posts in the Tribble Forum when they reduced the Provision requirements and increased Dilitium, the numbers showed that the Dilitium increase was more than what was expected for just the Provisions. As they had also cut and/or eliminated Doff requirements, the actual increase in Dilitium was also attributable to those missing Doffs. However, those extra Dilitium costs for the Doffs were between 300 and 400 per Doff. That is what I was talking about.
    Which is a pretty fair price given that even uncommon Doffs cost what? 500dil per when buying them at the academy? So people are complaining that Cryptic was being generous when the dil costs per doff should have been much higher, at 600ish, to of set the cost of buying them?
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,135 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    It's actually 850 dil per uncommon doff and is only for those made available to you through doffing accommodations via Lt Ferra and even then there is a limited number of them. There are so many other ways to get doffs for anywhere from free to next to nothing. You may want to study up, as it will reduce your costs if you're currently involved in building a fleet holding that requires doffs and buying them at the academy for that much.
    Post edited by protoneous on
  • locke112164locke112164 Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    also about the automated collection. you state that a colony would be drowning in provisions. that is simply not the case. my fleet is a maxed out fleet and we are constantly running short on provisions for tier upgrades. the automated collection simply cant keep up with the daily demand for the projects.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,073 Arc User
    If you're doing them daily, indeed it isn't even close to being enough. For those fleets who struggle to meet the dil demands however, it builds up nicely. So everybody has a shortage here, but only one.

    Personally I am quite happy that we're "low-dil" because I did the minigame grind often enough before we hit level 1, and I will "have to" do the minimum during the anniversary event, which will keep me satisfied with all my minigame needs.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,801 Arc User
    The Uncommon when you can buy them (and those are bound) is indeed 850 Dilitium. Grinding up Commons (5) to Uncommon would factor the cost to 170 Dilitium per. Grinding down Uncommon to Common (3) would factor the cost to 283 Dilitium per.

    As I stated in other posts the 100:1 ratio for Dilitium was used in Reputation Projects when they removed Doff requirements (though they missed a couple in Nakura that still have a small Doff requirement). That number, based on all the conversions given here tend to be on the generous side.

    Doing it on the basis of Fleet Credits you can buy Common for either 500 or 750. 500 being a grab bag, 750 specific Departmental areas. Dilitium contributions to Fleet Projects are on a 1:1 basis, so either 500 or 750 Dilitium per. Factoring the Doff contribution payback, that would reduce those effective costs to 200 or 450 Dilitium per. (Same number for Fleet Credits).

    Going the route of EC, the Fleet Projects pay out Fleet Credits for EC on a 100:1 ratio. So those Common Doffs you can buy at the Fleet Personnel Officer would be either 50,000 EC or 75,000 EC and factoring in contribution for those Doffs to Fleet Projects (@300 FC per Doff) 20,000 EC or 45,000 EC per Doff.

    Going the Key route and based upon figures when I last looked was 4,800,000 EC per Key, which also costs about 100 Zen per Key (factoring in sales). At 300 Dilitium per Zen, that's about 30,000 Dilitium per Key, which factors out to 160 EC per Dilitium. With EC donations and factoring in the Doff contribution payback @200 or 450 FC per Doff it definitely works out better generating FC with EC conversions. With EC that 4,800,000 EC per Key will net you 48,000 FC or with payback 240 or 106 Doffs per Key. The 30,000 Dilitium it cost for the Key would net 30,000 FC or only 5/8 the Doffs with 150 or 66 Doffs factoring in payback. It is generally easier to find Dilitium contributions to Fleet Projects rather than EC contributions, however.

    On the Exchange that 4,800,000 EC generated per Key would net you about 192 Doffs @~25,000 EC per and give you 57,600 FC to boot.

    Colony Provisions give you 33 Fleet Credits per Provision donated. Provisions for the Colony are obviously much more beneficial for the donators. Instead of costing 500 FC (or Dilitium if you convert) you gain 33 FC for a net savings of 533 FC per Provision.

    So there is all the info I have sitting here sitting in the auto shop. Industrious people can run the cost analysis and comparisons, etc. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
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