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What do you think? The Colony Fleet Holding

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,261 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Link is here to costs for all Tiers and Upgrades:
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/List_of_colony_world_projects
    Heh, there needs to be a bifurcation in the table to show a comparison between BASE costs and the reduced rate you get for having a fully upgraded Dil mine.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    [...]Heh, there needs to be a bifurcation in the table to show a comparison between BASE costs and the reduced rate you get for having a fully upgraded Dil mine.

    Thank you very much for volunteering to make the necessary edits. While you are at it do not forget to add an 'easy' method to see the various dilithium discounts provided by your armada level.
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    [...]Heh, there needs to be a bifurcation in the table to show a comparison between BASE costs and the reduced rate you get for having a fully upgraded Dil mine.

    Thank you very much for volunteering to make the necessary edits. While you are at it do not forget to add an 'easy' method to see the various dilithium discounts provided by your armada level.

    Don't forget the Difference in discounts between Alpha, Beta or Gamma Fleets. Combine the discount range is anywhere up to 35% dilithium.

    @markhawkman at this point you were told the difference. I am not going to make the spreadsheet for you. Look up your own discounts and copy and paste the info you want to compare. Stop being lazy.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,010 Arc User
    The 2200 pt threshold for 250 luxury goods is a reasonable amount for a single go, but the 850+ for the battery and ore goods seems high for 250 and battery seems the highest point requirement of all three.
    Ore requires 735 for 250. Batteries you can't get 250 in one run by any means. The most I've ever got is 175.

    OTOH, it doesn't really matter if you don't get 250 in on run, since the 1h cooldown is only applied once you get 250. If/when you don't get full score on a minigame, go do the other two then come back to finish the 250 with a second run.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,139 Arc User
    More importantly, both ore mining and rad scanning seem to be about equivalent in difficulty & score progression (I can reach 800+ basically always in both; with effort and luck, can clear 1000)... so why don't they have the same provision reward levels?

    It makes sense for particles to have a different score breakdown, since it's score range goes up to 2700. But the other two are practically the same.

  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,826 Arc User
    I just don't get this with these supposed easy numbers on the Omega game. 2200, reasonable? I'm lucky to get a quarter of that consistently over the last few years. It takes me 4 runs, sometimes 5 to get 250. I don't know if people are getting these jumps where the particles go right past you, jumping over you. I get three each run.

    I've gotten 250 on the Ore pretty consistently, a few times 225. The radiation is mostly 125 but I have gotten 175 on occasion. I do wish you can end the mini-games early once you pass the point you would hit the 250 max and get the payout.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,139 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    The only bug I generally get with particles is the one where it ends early, and that's usually only when I'm in a crowd of scanning ships.

    Someone said somewhere else that the skipping happens when a molecule completes, if you missed several particles leading up to it. (which, of course, means you miss a bunch of particles for the next molecule and it happens again :/ )

    I've also seen people complain about the game lagging in ground maps, but I've never seen that. 98% of the time, I get a score of 2400+. I only go below 2200 if I miss a particle and then get flustered & proceed to fumble the next couple while I get back in rhythm. But other than "use a mouse" and "keep the mouse pointer over the right edge of the scanner" I don't have any advice beyond "don't get lagged".... but no one has any good answer or solution for why it happens. /sigh
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    The problem with the omega game is the lag. I notice this in 2 ways. Yes there is the obvious one where the omega particle collapses that animation can cause the mini-game to skip. The other I noticed is that on some computers that the colector is less responsive when changing the path it is on making it harder to collect and even inconsistent timing.

    On my main computer the game is snappy and I can one shot it. On a backup computer it is sluggish and I can have a hard time getting past 150 provisions.

    So this is what I did. I decided to find out what the minimum score to get 125 permissions to make it 2 goes and avoid unwanted time wasting. The Ore and the battery were better as you can close the mini-game before it was finished and get the reward based on the current score. This means that once you get the 125 provisions threshold, you can can close it and reopen it and not wait for the game to complete. The Omega mini-game had to run its course. If you can do the omega game in one shot that is still preferable. if not you only need to get a minimum score and let it finish itself.

    Ore 205 score = 125 Provision
    Can get reward on closing

    Batteries 460 score = 125 Provision
    Can get reward on closing

    Moral/Omega 900 score = 125
    Minimum score of 250 = 25
    Must let finish to collect

    I hope they either remove the hard cap or remove the time limit and let you play until you hit 250 provisions.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,139 Arc User
    So we got our beach built. And now I can gather luxury provisions by.... making drinks out of stabilized Omega particles? :D
    (and where are the luxury provisions coming from? am I being tipped by the people I'm mixing drinks for?)


    ...also, the colony appears to be populated by internet forum posters. They're standing there arguing about the beach. No matter what you do, someone'll complain. ;)
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    kiralyn wrote: »
    So we got our beach built. And now I can gather luxury provisions by.... making drinks out of stabilized Omega particles? :D
    (and where are the luxury provisions coming from? am I being tipped by the people I'm mixing drinks for?)


    ...also, the colony appears to be populated by internet forum posters. They're standing there arguing about the beach. No matter what you do, someone'll complain. ;)

    Ummm.....

    The Omega Directive was a highly classified Starfleet general order requiring the captain of a starship to notify Starfleet Command immediately upon detection of an Omega molecule.

    The directive also authorized the use of any and all means to destroy an Omega molecule, superseding all other regulations, even the Prime Directive. The Omega Directive was deemed necessary because of the extreme power and the threat to interstellar civilizations posed by even a single molecule. Knowledge of the Omega molecule and the Omega Directive was restricted to starship captains and flag officers.

    So the colony goes against this?
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,826 Arc User
    Well it is Ship Captains destroying those Omega Particles, so it is within directive. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • cat5hurricane1cat5hurricane1 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    hoffy1 wrote: »
    Today I did the Dranuur colony invasion [called out in subcomms]. And I have to say … I love it.

    Total amount of players on the map was 20, [4 groups of 5] and we made it all the way to wave 30 without much of a fuzz [ engineers; pack out the heal generators again they are golden to keep the colony generators alive, make engineers great again]
    payout: 2100 of each provisions [so that saves a total of 24+ minigames!]
    also 245 fleet marks which is okay I guess.
    Time laps: 35-40 minutes.

    If fleets would do these on a more regular basis, and just draw players from channels and other fleets, getting the provisions will go much easier, combined with the daily automated grinded provisions from T1 .. getting provisions should not be much of a fuzz after T1, so the amount of actual needed minigames could be much lower then players think.
    the Dilithium cost however, thats the killer past T1, way to much.

    Yes, that Colony Invasion game is fun. I tried it on Tribble.

    But creating the keys to run them @ 50,000 Fleet Credits, 5000 Refined dilithium, and 200,000 XP.....would prove to be too expensive for the amount of provisions we would be able to etch out of it in return.

    You know anyone in your fleet willing to give up 50,000 Fleet Credits for 3 keys to start a Simulation? And I am just looking at Tier 1....

    Yes, at Tier 5 you get 15 keys...but by then, why would a fleet even need to run it? Fleet won't even need the 500 Colony XP. And the fleet will have to give up their resources to be nice enough to run them for or with people called in channels. LOL!

    Will have to have folks pay admission fees for Colony Invasion just for a pittance of provision goods. I wonder what that does to the "sell your provisions to the highest bidder" profit curve?

    Something is backwards here.

  • cat5hurricane1cat5hurricane1 Member Posts: 17 Arc User


    HOLY TRIBBLE, The only salvation was these "invasion games" if you are lucky enough to get at least 5 players on at the same time large or small fleets with consideration to world time zones to help with the outrageous dill and provision amounts needed and did not know that these "keys" or "tokens" came with a cost, never mind a rediculas cost at that. The more I learn about this holding the worse it gets. So if I understand this now you have to pay to GRIND.... Great... Nice job listing to the players...
  • ffttfftt Member Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    where2r1 wrote: »
    ...But creating the keys to run them @ 50,000 Fleet Credits, 5000 Refined dilithium, and 200,000 XP.....would prove to be too expensive for the amount of provisions we would be able to etch out of it in return.

    You know anyone in your fleet willing to give up 50,000 Fleet Credits for 3 keys to start a Simulation? And I am just looking at Tier 1....

    Checking out the wiki - for the price of 5k dil I can get 500 Renewable Resources XP creating these keys whereas a T4 project can average out to 59k dil for that same XP. Half of day of refinement versus seven and a half days seems like a no-brainer to me. Unless things change I plan on creating as many keys as I can just for the XP!
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    What I think is funny is the cost of the XP project after the Upgrade project.

    So you get the upgrade to Morale Tier I
    540 Fleet Marks
    26,000 Refined dilithium icon
    24 Tactical or Security Duty Officers
    450,000 Energy credit icon
    6,500 [Colony Luxury Provisions]

    Upon completion you then get the Morale Tier I xp projects
    300 Fleet Marks
    27,750 Refined dilithium icon
    20,000 Expertise icon
    240,000 Energy credit icon
    2,100 [Colony Luxury Provisions]

    Upgrade projects are suppose to be larger then the XP projects. That is true for everything except Dilithium. They only reason why I only bring this up now is I don't want cryptic to increase the upgrade costs before people get there. Regular projects should never cost more Dilithium then the upgrade.

    Price gouging aside, thematically, for a group that is suppose to be focusing on clean Energy, they certainly need way more dilithium then anyone else.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,826 Arc User
    And non-rechargable batteries. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,261 Arc User
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    [...]Heh, there needs to be a bifurcation in the table to show a comparison between BASE costs and the reduced rate you get for having a fully upgraded Dil mine.
    Thank you very much for volunteering to make the necessary edits. While you are at it do not forget to add an 'easy' method to see the various dilithium discounts provided by your armada level.
    Enh, I went with a simpler approach. Base cost/max discount.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,139 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    The Tier 1 provision harvesting locations are generally harder to get to, if you're using a surfboard. (Especially the Ore Mine, since you have to run down into the tunnels).

    So, yeah. New places to harvest, still going to the original ones.


    edit: Hmm, and if you're running on foot, the old Ore location might still be faster, since you need to run down to the beach for Luxury anyway. The Ore Mine is pretty far out of the way, comparatively.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,143 Arc User
    robdmc wrote: »
    What I think is funny is the cost of the XP project after the Upgrade project.

    So you get the upgrade to Morale Tier I
    540 Fleet Marks
    26,000 Refined dilithium icon
    24 Tactical or Security Duty Officers
    450,000 Energy credit icon
    6,500 [Colony Luxury Provisions]

    Upon completion you then get the Morale Tier I xp projects
    300 Fleet Marks
    27,750 Refined dilithium icon
    20,000 Expertise icon
    240,000 Energy credit icon
    2,100 [Colony Luxury Provisions]

    Upgrade projects are suppose to be larger then the XP projects. That is true for everything except Dilithium. They only reason why I only bring this up now is I don't want cryptic to increase the upgrade costs before people get there. Regular projects should never cost more Dilithium then the upgrade.

    Price gouging aside, thematically, for a group that is suppose to be focusing on clean Energy, they certainly need way more dilithium then anyone else.

    But you're comparing a T0 --> T1 sub-tier upgrade to T1 projects. T0 projects were only 1650 dil base with the T1 upgrade 45,500 base. I do get what you're saying though. The dil cost curve is really steep.

    Using base wiki numbers versus (my own in-game values) that include discounts of about 24.5% as a beta with a completed dil mine for standard xp projects:

    T0: 1650 dil (1238) T1: 27,550 (20813) T2: 58,750 (43,356) T3: 89,750 (67,761) T4: 118,300 (89,316)

    Given you have to multiply each x3 to include all 3 sub-tiers. So we're already over 60K dil per day Tier 1-->2 and over 130K/day at T2-->3. I'll stop there :neutral:

    I think the folks who designed this looked purely at their stats without any real world interpretation or in other words are sadly out of touch with their player base.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,924 Arc User
    robdmc wrote: »
    What I think is funny is the cost of the XP project after the Upgrade project.

    So you get the upgrade to Morale Tier I
    540 Fleet Marks
    26,000 Refined dilithium icon
    24 Tactical or Security Duty Officers
    450,000 Energy credit icon
    6,500 [Colony Luxury Provisions]

    Upon completion you then get the Morale Tier I xp projects
    300 Fleet Marks
    27,750 Refined dilithium icon
    20,000 Expertise icon
    240,000 Energy credit icon
    2,100 [Colony Luxury Provisions]

    Upgrade projects are suppose to be larger then the XP projects. That is true for everything except Dilithium. They only reason why I only bring this up now is I don't want cryptic to increase the upgrade costs before people get there. Regular projects should never cost more Dilithium then the upgrade.

    Price gouging aside, thematically, for a group that is suppose to be focusing on clean Energy, they certainly need way more dilithium then anyone else.

    What you are seeing with Dilithium costs is because : The DOFF requirements were replaced with Dilithium for the XP projects.... while DOFFs requirements were left in place for the Upgrades.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,261 Arc User
    I don't really get why that change was made.... it doesn't make sense to me.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    I don't really get why that change was made.... it doesn't make sense to me.

    Because you can buy doffs with fleet credits and then donate those doffs to the fleet projects?

    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,261 Arc User
    So? that means you're giving up all of your fleet credits.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    So? that means you're giving up all of your fleet credits.

    No, it's more of a way to recycle fleet credits. It's not a even trade. You can buy the doffs for like 500 fleet credits and earn 300 back on donation.

    The other option is to buy the doffs on the exchange. Which, the cost there is dependent on the doff. Generally, 15-30k per common doff. Where as the fleet credit side is roughly 10 or 15 fleet marks per.

    So it's basically a way to save the players EC on buying doffs. Which can run in to the millions per project buying them on the exchange.

    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,826 Arc User
    They removed Doff Requirements for Reputation Projects last year (Elite Scorpions or Elite Tholian Widow Fighters). They did so on a basis of 100:1. Looks like they decided to markedly increase that conversion here. Each Subsection of the Starbase itself XP Project to go from Tier 4 to 5 would have cost 7,700 Dilitium using that Reputation ratio. God forbid they do ANYTHING consistently in this game.

    You get 250 FC per Doff donated not 300.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    They removed Doff Requirements for Reputation Projects last year (Elite Scorpions or Elite Tholian Widow Fighters). They did so on a basis of 100:1. Looks like they decided to markedly increase that conversion here. Each Subsection of the Starbase itself XP Project to go from Tier 4 to 5 would have cost 7,700 Dilitium using that Reputation ratio. God forbid they do ANYTHING consistently in this game.

    You get 250 FC per Doff donated not 300.

    Yeah, not a lot we can do about that. Just have to roll with it.

    I was just explaining that. Since there are a few ways one can go about getting the doffs for to fill projects. I've been leveling a fleet from scratch. So I look in to the various ways to go about getting them.

    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,261 Arc User
    Point is, converting FC to doffs is a net loss in terms of FC.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,366 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    Point is, converting FC to doffs is a net loss in terms of FC.

    Building holdings is all about loss. Point is, a tier 5 base did not hurt while this one kills a fleet.

    Those few that were so far willing to give what it takes, those few that lost the credits to get the doffs, they are the ones who get totally demoralized over the new demands. They are just too high and when peeps realize that they will give up.

    For those only looking to generates fleet credits none of this matters as they never “lost” Dil over fleet holdings anyway.
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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