A new spec tree... sure, why not. But new ships with special seating for Miracle Workers seems weird. Some super-Engineering seat? Seems a bit redundant. Or Cryptic admitting that Engineering is under-powered now.
Or a half-thought out attempt to sell more ships. If there's not going to be a T7, then we'll have to get used to new strange seatings to keep sales alive. What next? A Councillor boff set of powers where you can make friends with bad guys instead of blowing them up?
If they ever did release a Counselor set, you'd have to avoid using it on any of your helm officers or you'd be saucer-first into the nearest planet before you could blink.
Counselor trait:
-disables all weapons after one shot
-disables torpedo abilities
-reduces torpedo flight speed by 60%
-forces your ship into a fleeing frenzy
-flight speed and turn rate reduced by 50%
-"forgot about shield modulation" debuff: gives your shields a 100% bleedthrough
-hull reduced by 50%
-cloaks all your opponents
-guaranteed warp core failure if you still manage to destroy a nearby foe
Maybe they have new content to go along with the set...although I don't see how you could beat pure DPS when entities are HP based... Then again I am reminded of the days of CoH/CoV where I played tanks... and you needed them for the task forces you played....same for healers, buffers, debuffers, etc. Crystalline STF I see the 2-3 dozen Tholian ships that are almost non-existent as the entire team seems to go straight for the boss and focus on the boss... Most games you need to clear that out.... BEFORE you drop the boss lol.... Instead I have noticed it is the reverse.... Ignore the mobs, pop the boss, then mop up or exit STF...
although I don't see how you could beat pure DPS when entities are HP based...
You can make tanks relevant again either by increasing NPC resistances (like in the old HSE before they removed the tanky Tac cubes) or increase NPC DPS. However, doing that might make the game too hard for some players.
For example, I took over 80% of the attacks in this run, but one player still managed to die:
Is there a theme running here? First they reduce the dps (while upping the AI damage), then a specialization good for 'tanking', throw in a 'takes forever' defence orientated holding. All this on top of numerous time gated missions, I think they just want us to spend more and more hours doing all the things we used to enjoy doing quickly.
Is that 'more fun', or just ticking some 'metrics box' on the lead developers anual apraisal?
It is NOT pointless if you want to sell a new stable of ships. Also, it keeps people grinding away at XP. Busy work, don't you know.
Grind? What grind? You can literally park your alt somewhere and collect XP for this, via doffing and admiralty. You can even get two specialization points for every 10/10 Federation admiralty. So this more of a park and farm, than a grind.
I think bosses should have more "phases" more often... Meaning... Not just a list of attacks etc. it uses when cooled down... Like a heavy damage buff when at 25% health as well as a resist buff etc etc. Something that pops squishies that are built for all DPS and can tank players as well... This would bring in a better balance on team imo and this new spec... Right now all i see is "fire everything!!" = win
I am trying to remember any Star Trek Series (any flavor) episode where a ship was in battle to deliberately attract fire. There were some episodes, 'Yesterday's Enterprise' comes to mind where the D was trying to cover the C to let it get back through the anomaly and reset the Timeline. But no 'Look here, shoot at me' type ships. It was all covering fire.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
People have been trying for a long time to dirty sto by importing mechanics from bad games, and they're finally succeeding.
you mean games with queues that pop, dev which don't fail to sell virtual goods to people looking to buy said goods, oh and also don't claim proverty to excuse said failures, existing pvp communities. if those games are bad, sto is sad joke.
personally I'ld prefer a bad game to a sad joke. then again I've been drinking.
and after glancing at this on tribble it'll will fit my fed captain just fine. some of it even looks like it could be interesting.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I am trying to remember any Star Trek Series (any flavor) episode where a ship was in battle to deliberately attract fire. There were some episodes, 'Yesterday's Enterprise' comes to mind where the D was trying to cover the C to let it get back through the anomaly and reset the Timeline. But no 'Look here, shoot at me' type ships. It was all covering fire.
I can not recall any specific instances, but I feel like there have been at least a handful of "lets see if we can grab their attention." moments of saving another ship/station/planet/whatever by trying to get the enemy to come at me bro instead.
This is a space ships game based on star trek there is no such thing as a "tank" it doesnt make any sense at all and its stupid.
You said it right there in your post. This is a game, it isn't real, it isn't bound by canon....plus in case you haven't noticed a lot of things don't make sense.
Having tanks is a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of other things that don't make sense in this game.
Honestly this seems more like a spec that would give you a more combat-medic/healer feel, than a true tanking type spec. I would say that there is alot of times you see at least some forms of tanking in star trek, such as in the form of one ship trying to cover another ship actively seeking to get the attention off them, or other times where one ship is trying to block shots that might be fired on a smaller vessel (this is one thing I wish we had the ability for a ship to intercept fire that is being launched on another player's ship).
One idea for a mechanic or talent that could be used for a tanking spec, would be something that used a stacking buff you gain based on how many targets you have gained aggro of. This buff which could be something like a stacking damage buff, or a dual party-wide buff that boosts the defensive capabilities of the tanking ship, and gives a damage buff to the other ships in his party could be quite fun to use. Though also in someways wish that the space-based combat system in regards to when a ship is downed functioned abit different, such as that we enter a true "downed state" like in ground combat. While in this downed state enemies might target us, and seek to destroy our ship (if they do we get the respawn screen like now), but allies could defend an repair the downed ship (like thru hull heals) return it to a active/non-downed state.
This is a space ships game based on star trek there is no such thing as a "tank" it doesnt make any sense at all and its stupid.
A tank, game-wise makes sense. In reality, no. "Hey, this guy can take damage but doesn't really hurt me, I'll just hit him!"
Cryptic thought about doing tank/dps/healer (aka cruiser/escort/sciship), just didn't really follow through. And it's probably too late now to try to do so.
In someways I almost would not mind if they added some aspect to this spec that works with weapon-buffs (like beam faw, cannon rapid fire, and torpedo spread, even something like Directed Energy Modulation). Such as adding to the given bonus, buffing the effect, or altering the effects of some of the weapon buffs would be interesting.
Is there a theme running here? First they reduce the dps (while upping the AI damage), then a specialization good for 'tanking', throw in a 'takes forever' defence orientated holding. All this on top of numerous time gated missions, I think they just want us to spend more and more hours doing all the things we used to enjoy doing quickly.
Is that 'more fun', or just ticking some 'metrics box' on the lead developers anual apraisal?
That’s the feeling I get as well but it could also just be that they have absolutely no clue what is going on in the game not to mention what is wanted or needed there to keep players interested.
From what I see of the new spec tree so far I also get the impression that the “deep knowledge” of game mechanics the S13 nerf dev was given credit for was just a superficial understanding of meta-builds that some players got him familiarized with.
The new tree seems indeed pointless so far.
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In many way, this new Specialization underlines the fundamental issue with Engineering: it's by and large Defense-only. They 'fixed' (ahem) the imbalance, at the S13 nerfs, the same way they're giving Engineering an alleged boost now: by just giving you even more healing. As an Engineer, I can tell you, though, I didn't need more healing. I needed more Offensive abilities (hull-penetrating stuff, on par with Tact abilities, and the like, and not lame things like Emit Unstable Warp Bubble).
As it stands, the new Spec still feels pointless to me.
It's true that they butchered the game by making it a dps-fest (and how canon is that?), and now they're trying to make up for it with some hit n' miss nerfs and this spec tree. But as it is obvious, most STF's are programmed in such way that you hardly need anything else than raw damage, and I admit that in my primary PVE loadout, I use nothing else but raw damage because it inevitably gets the job done much quicker. Still, no matter how useless this tree seems to be (in PVE at least), I welcome it purely because it isn't reeking of "MOAR DPS".
So ultimately the devs are to blame in the first place for TRIBBLE it all up, yet I have to comment also that were it up to some of the 'esteemed' posters around here, we'd all play Tac and have a "instant-win" button by nuking everything on screen and then bragging about it in the channels as to "who pressed the red button faster". Yeah that's really fun and strategic... if you're a lobotomized ape.
And speaking of canon, you have the 'Miss Waifu' toon erping on risa, while commanding 30 expensive starships, and is able to vape giant aliens effortlessly on ground that in reality would be 1000x stronger and more resilient than her or the neckbeard behind the keyboard. So stop with the canon already. This is obviously not a Star Trek game in any shape or form, except in name only. This is first and foremost a video-game, and a good video-game should a good variety of options, though it's probably too late since it should be called "Vape-Trek online".
The problem with anything that adds to tanking/healing/engineering stuff like this spec tree is that everyone can already do all of these things all at the same time on existing builds with existing skills etc. These days most escorts can heal themselves, they don't need a heal boat. Tanks are useful for elite stuff like HSE but generally most ships can tank quite a lot of damage outside of stupid large spikes. And we don't need help with power levels or debuffs or resistance as you can sort out all that on your own within your own ship.
So what purpose does a dedicated healing/tanking/engineering heavy space tree serve? How does it make your ship better and those things that players can already do themselves perfectly adequately?
It's true that they butchered the game by making it a dps-fest (and how canon is that?), and now they're trying to make up for it with some hit n' miss nerfs and this spec tree. But as it is obvious, most STF's are programmed in such way that you hardly need anything else than raw damage, and I admit that in my primary PVE loadout, I use nothing else but raw damage because it inevitably gets the job done much quicker.
It is not just efficiency. To complete the objectives and actually progress, you must defeat your opponents. You must be able to deal damage.
Still, no matter how useless this tree seems to be (in PVE at least), I welcome it purely because it isn't reeking of "MOAR DPS".
Again, you must deal damage or you cannot progress the mission. "MOAR DPS" is how the game is structured. While there are some puzzles, Cryptic cannot monetize "puzzle solving ships" as easily as "dakka ships".
So ultimately the devs are to blame in the first place for **** it all up, yet I have to comment also that were it up to some of the 'esteemed' posters around here, we'd all play Tac and have a "instant-win" button by nuking everything on screen and then bragging about it in the channels as to "who pressed the red button faster". Yeah that's really fun and strategic... if you're a lobotomized ape.
Truely, you are a paragon among PvP players. This kind of well thought out and articulate argument is sure to convince other players to abandon what they find enjoyable and dive face-first into the world of PvP tanking. Can I expect more of this kind of treatment after I abandon my wrong builds and wrong fun and join you in PvP-land? Wonderful.
And speaking of canon, you have the 'Miss Waifu' toon erping on risa, while commanding 30 expensive starships, and is able to vape giant aliens effortlessly on ground that in reality would be 1000x stronger and more resilient than her or the neckbeard behind the keyboard. So stop with the canon already. This is obviously not a Star Trek game in any shape or form, except in name only.
You really don't have a clue about how the stories in Trek are written.
You see, the "heroes" have what is called "plot armor". They are as tough or weak as the story needs them to be. It's why non-hero ships and crew are disposable and Emperor Janeway can never die. So yes. The scenario you described is most certainly "cannon" since "heroes" can only die when the story lets them.
The pointless thing is that they fail to do two things first: Merge Commando with Strategist or Split Secondary Ground with Secondary Space as specializations.
This spec is way too "Some heals, no threat, no damage, ground-forced-melee".
If you take a look at the whole thing, it's not even worth slotting spec-points unless you're some melee-based toon who desperately wants to balance healing with melee bonuses. Probably combined with Commando it would be the Meleer's choice.
The bad part is that it feels pointless on paper. Just the HP buff is worth looking over.
If they want this to be sweetened, they better get some +Threat and +% all damage when being hit stuff that would stack. Unless they make that design turn, this thing is gonna be just like Command spec - Roleplay investment.
The basic design of a heal/tank is to aggro heavily. And due to these game mechanics, +% all damage when being hit that stacks, combined with +Threat and other Threat boosters would help keeping the aggro and would tempt all classes heavily to balance defensive and offensive, since the bonus +% all damage when getting hit might equal the gains of being a glass-cannon.
If they just wanna tell us "Meleers are healers and we're wasted great time to make something you're not gonna use", they're shooting themselves in the foot.
My personal view of solving this:
1. Redesign and include heals,+threat,+% all damage when being hit (stacks)
2. Boost the damage output of the small mobs (Spheres or under) by 10% or more to up to 15% just to stimulate the requirements of tanking and threat.
3. Make an amazing giveaway spread over a longer period of time to bring back idle' players and keep them in a "gotta-login" state for two weeks. Who logs daily for two weeks, is surely back in business. Which benefits all of us, PVE, PVP or even RP-ers.
I like that this new tree isn't "more Dakka" and gives players more options. Options are good. I don't want to be forced into a cookie cutter build just to complete queues faster when it doesn't fit my playstyle.
Don't like it? Don't use it. Simple as that. No need to call foul and call it useless before you even TRY it. We don't even know the full extent yet!
Geez... its like no one is willing to give anything a try unless it fits their personal vision of what must be.
Where have I seen that before?
I am trying to remember any Star Trek Series (any flavor) episode where a ship was in battle to deliberately attract fire. There were some episodes, 'Yesterday's Enterprise' comes to mind where the D was trying to cover the C to let it get back through the anomaly and reset the Timeline. But no 'Look here, shoot at me' type ships. It was all covering fire.
Excelsior, Undiscovered Country. Sulu specifically says "Now they have something else to shoot at." Drawing fire is a basic tactic which can't be described as just covering fire. Look for it in escort and ship rescue scenarios involving one stronger and one weaker/damaged ship (more DS9, VOY, ENT given later series more active battle styles.) For example (in First Contact):
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I fully endorse this spec tree. Some of us are "pvp healer tanks"
And if you don't like this tree, don't friggin use it.
As a engineering-heavy healer I am finding this engineering-heavy specialization useless for healing. Miracle Worker made both my damage output and tanking/healing weaker on the ground and offered nothing noticeable in space.
Miracle Worker doesn’t even work with any of my engineering ground healing. So while I endorse the idea behind this specialization it fails to do its job in its current form.
Comments
Counselor trait:
-disables all weapons after one shot
-disables torpedo abilities
-reduces torpedo flight speed by 60%
-forces your ship into a fleeing frenzy
-flight speed and turn rate reduced by 50%
-"forgot about shield modulation" debuff: gives your shields a 100% bleedthrough
-hull reduced by 50%
-cloaks all your opponents
-guaranteed warp core failure if you still manage to destroy a nearby foe
You can make tanks relevant again either by increasing NPC resistances (like in the old HSE before they removed the tanky Tac cubes) or increase NPC DPS. However, doing that might make the game too hard for some players.
For example, I took over 80% of the attacks in this run, but one player still managed to die:
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Is that 'more fun', or just ticking some 'metrics box' on the lead developers anual apraisal?
Grind? What grind? You can literally park your alt somewhere and collect XP for this, via doffing and admiralty. You can even get two specialization points for every 10/10 Federation admiralty. So this more of a park and farm, than a grind.
And if you don't like this tree, don't friggin use it.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
you mean games with queues that pop, dev which don't fail to sell virtual goods to people looking to buy said goods, oh and also don't claim proverty to excuse said failures, existing pvp communities. if those games are bad, sto is sad joke.
personally I'ld prefer a bad game to a sad joke. then again I've been drinking.
and after glancing at this on tribble it'll will fit my fed captain just fine. some of it even looks like it could be interesting.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I can not recall any specific instances, but I feel like there have been at least a handful of "lets see if we can grab their attention." moments of saving another ship/station/planet/whatever by trying to get the enemy to come at me bro instead.
You said it right there in your post. This is a game, it isn't real, it isn't bound by canon....plus in case you haven't noticed a lot of things don't make sense.
Having tanks is a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of other things that don't make sense in this game.
One idea for a mechanic or talent that could be used for a tanking spec, would be something that used a stacking buff you gain based on how many targets you have gained aggro of. This buff which could be something like a stacking damage buff, or a dual party-wide buff that boosts the defensive capabilities of the tanking ship, and gives a damage buff to the other ships in his party could be quite fun to use. Though also in someways wish that the space-based combat system in regards to when a ship is downed functioned abit different, such as that we enter a true "downed state" like in ground combat. While in this downed state enemies might target us, and seek to destroy our ship (if they do we get the respawn screen like now), but allies could defend an repair the downed ship (like thru hull heals) return it to a active/non-downed state.
Well...good thing I don't do PvP or PVE much. I am still going to read about Tanking.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
A tank, game-wise makes sense. In reality, no. "Hey, this guy can take damage but doesn't really hurt me, I'll just hit him!"
Cryptic thought about doing tank/dps/healer (aka cruiser/escort/sciship), just didn't really follow through. And it's probably too late now to try to do so.
That’s the feeling I get as well but it could also just be that they have absolutely no clue what is going on in the game not to mention what is wanted or needed there to keep players interested.
From what I see of the new spec tree so far I also get the impression that the “deep knowledge” of game mechanics the S13 nerf dev was given credit for was just a superficial understanding of meta-builds that some players got him familiarized with.
The new tree seems indeed pointless so far.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
As it stands, the new Spec still feels pointless to me.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
So ultimately the devs are to blame in the first place for TRIBBLE it all up, yet I have to comment also that were it up to some of the 'esteemed' posters around here, we'd all play Tac and have a "instant-win" button by nuking everything on screen and then bragging about it in the channels as to "who pressed the red button faster". Yeah that's really fun and strategic... if you're a lobotomized ape.
And speaking of canon, you have the 'Miss Waifu' toon erping on risa, while commanding 30 expensive starships, and is able to vape giant aliens effortlessly on ground that in reality would be 1000x stronger and more resilient than her or the neckbeard behind the keyboard. So stop with the canon already. This is obviously not a Star Trek game in any shape or form, except in name only. This is first and foremost a video-game, and a good video-game should a good variety of options, though it's probably too late since it should be called "Vape-Trek online".
These days most escorts can heal themselves, they don't need a heal boat. Tanks are useful for elite stuff like HSE but generally most ships can tank quite a lot of damage outside of stupid large spikes. And we don't need help with power levels or debuffs or resistance as you can sort out all that on your own within your own ship.
So what purpose does a dedicated healing/tanking/engineering heavy space tree serve? How does it make your ship better and those things that players can already do themselves perfectly adequately?
Again, you must deal damage or you cannot progress the mission. "MOAR DPS" is how the game is structured. While there are some puzzles, Cryptic cannot monetize "puzzle solving ships" as easily as "dakka ships".
Truely, you are a paragon among PvP players. This kind of well thought out and articulate argument is sure to convince other players to abandon what they find enjoyable and dive face-first into the world of PvP tanking. Can I expect more of this kind of treatment after I abandon my wrong builds and wrong fun and join you in PvP-land? Wonderful.
You really don't have a clue about how the stories in Trek are written.
You see, the "heroes" have what is called "plot armor". They are as tough or weak as the story needs them to be. It's why non-hero ships and crew are disposable and Emperor Janeway can never die. So yes. The scenario you described is most certainly "cannon" since "heroes" can only die when the story lets them.
This spec is way too "Some heals, no threat, no damage, ground-forced-melee".
If you take a look at the whole thing, it's not even worth slotting spec-points unless you're some melee-based toon who desperately wants to balance healing with melee bonuses. Probably combined with Commando it would be the Meleer's choice.
The bad part is that it feels pointless on paper. Just the HP buff is worth looking over.
If they want this to be sweetened, they better get some +Threat and +% all damage when being hit stuff that would stack. Unless they make that design turn, this thing is gonna be just like Command spec - Roleplay investment.
The basic design of a heal/tank is to aggro heavily. And due to these game mechanics, +% all damage when being hit that stacks, combined with +Threat and other Threat boosters would help keeping the aggro and would tempt all classes heavily to balance defensive and offensive, since the bonus +% all damage when getting hit might equal the gains of being a glass-cannon.
If they just wanna tell us "Meleers are healers and we're wasted great time to make something you're not gonna use", they're shooting themselves in the foot.
My personal view of solving this:
1. Redesign and include heals,+threat,+% all damage when being hit (stacks)
2. Boost the damage output of the small mobs (Spheres or under) by 10% or more to up to 15% just to stimulate the requirements of tanking and threat.
3. Make an amazing giveaway spread over a longer period of time to bring back idle' players and keep them in a "gotta-login" state for two weeks. Who logs daily for two weeks, is surely back in business. Which benefits all of us, PVE, PVP or even RP-ers.
> I am trying to remember any Star Trek Series (any flavor) episode where a ship was in battle to deliberately attract fire.
That is what are Miranda's are for. The Defiant always kept a couple around it to draw off enemy fire.
But seriously, this would have so useful first time dealing with the Vaadwaur those frakking cluster mines
Don't like it? Don't use it. Simple as that. No need to call foul and call it useless before you even TRY it. We don't even know the full extent yet!
Geez... its like no one is willing to give anything a try unless it fits their personal vision of what must be.
Where have I seen that before?
Excelsior, Undiscovered Country. Sulu specifically says "Now they have something else to shoot at." Drawing fire is a basic tactic which can't be described as just covering fire. Look for it in escort and ship rescue scenarios involving one stronger and one weaker/damaged ship (more DS9, VOY, ENT given later series more active battle styles.) For example (in First Contact):
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Miracle Worker doesn’t even work with any of my engineering ground healing. So while I endorse the idea behind this specialization it fails to do its job in its current form.